Class A rankings (1-26-09)

[greatone]

[southernmnscout]

b. If it is time spent on the big sheet of ice at the X, St Thomas gets the nod there as they play in the Schwan Cup, playing their championship game their last year and two games there this year.

This shows how much you actually know vs. how much you think you know!

Please do us all a favor and quit talking. Maybe you should go on some other message board where you may know what you are talking about.

Perhaps a swimming and diving message board?

[HShockeywatcher]

southernmnscout, I've been the first one to admit when I'm wrong about something, something many on this board have yet to learn how to do. I have already admitted to being wrong about that.
However, the point is then discredited, making what I said stronger.

dherman8, that makes little sense. That would be the equivalent of telling a AA team they cannot schedule A teams. As a AA team Roseau plays all of EIGHT AA teams. That list goes on and on. Additionally, if you are going to mention other sports, you should probably stick in MSHSL sports. Football; many teams are in conferences that are mixed between two classes, and other teams, like Glencoe, schedule a non-conference game against a team above them. Basketball; Braham had a set number of games they were scheduling against teams in the conference and such but the non-conference games they were scheduling against AAAA teams while they were a AA team. St Bernard's did the same. Very few people would be happy if we went by your "only play the teams in your class" philosophy.
Additionally, like Braham and other teams, when a team is good for a period of time because of select players, all over the state in many sports they schedule better competition for just those years.

hshckfan08,
1. I'm not arguing they are "a top team," I'm arguing against them being "the top team."

2.
a.Being a top team in a weak conference doesn't bring you to the state level.

b. And no, being a top team the year before does not make you a top team the following year half way through the season.

c. The only thing separating Hutch and LF is having gone to state in past years?

3.
a. Never said you said it was because of one player. You said "I think people know that little falls is very talented and are a top team in class A"; implying that knowing the talent of a team should be used to rank them. If that is used, then I'm saying we can use knowledge from games as well, which you have told me I cannot use in my judgment.

b. OT losses can go either way. Little falls won, but they could've just as easily lost.

4. I know you're not, but if it's a main point you're going to use, why doesn't the better experience of another team count more?

5. You're right, I don't like them there. Additionally, I don't agree that even if they win out (in the fashion they have been) they are guaranteed to be at #1.

[deacon]

is this debate going to happen every week? by the way, FWIW, I think STA is the best team in the state and the nice thing about it is we have a playoff, so we can settle it on the ice instead of a stupid message board.

edit: and who really cares if LF is #1? they'll just be crushed even more when they play better teams in the postseason, just don't call it an upset when LF loses in state, if they get there.

[hshckfan08]

1. I obviously understand you are arguing against them being the top team, i actually read what you write.. I simply strongly disagree with your definition of a top team... your definition:" a top TEAM is one who wouldn't allow the number of goals to lesser opponents LF has"
my definition: "A top TEAM wins games.. period. "

2.
a. I dont care about their conference whether they play in the lake, or play sleepy eye 10 times a year. At the state tournament, where everyone could watch them and see if they were good, they almost beat the state champion. And they next year they almost beat the state champion again. That's two years in a row... Ya see what i'm getting at??? They have done it consistently the past two years and have built up the respect of hockey fans as being a good hockey team. Now on top of that, they go undefeated and beat your number 1/2 team in class A.
b. I never said that.. so once again, try to comprehend sentences. You dont see me hyping up hill murray because they did good in state last year.
c. Try to understand the concept and you will see the light.

3.
a. More evidence that you missed a reading class in 5th grade...
To point out where you said i mentioned it was because of one player- "if you are going to use examples like saying how good Ben Hanowski is factors in"

ok if it makes you feel better (and i know it will) i think people know that Saint Thomas Academy is very talented and is a top team in class A. You use excuses like refereeing, shots, etc. to try and say that St Thomas should have won, and therefore make rankings based on what you think should have happened.

b. Of course they could have lost. Why would they even play then! That hast to be one of the most ridiculously stupid comments i've ever heard.

4. And it looks like you went past point number 1 in my last post without understanding.. I have wasted enough energy on trying to explain this to you.

5. Whatever, I never mentioned anything about winning out or any of that crap. That's speculation, save it for ESPN. THe title of this thread is Class A rankings (1-26-09), not if Little Falls and STA win out who will get the 1 seed.

[gophers101]

PuckRanger said:
[quote]Last week, I had Hibbing slightly ahead of Virginia, but after this week, I have a hard time not putting Virginia back ahead of Hibbing.

So after Virginia's big win(3-2) over Greenway do you still have them slightly ahead of Hibbing.

[SB24]

LF is just not the best team sorry.....list all the reasons why other teams should be ranked lower then they are but in the end they will get it handed to them at state.

[PuckRanger]

PuckRanger said:

Last week, I had Hibbing slightly ahead of Virginia, but after this week, I have a hard time not putting Virginia back ahead of Hibbing.

So after Virginia's big win(3-2) over Greenway do you still have them slightly ahead of Hibbing.

Yes:

Greenway/Nashwauk-Keewatin: Erikur Arnason (50:15 L) 14-17-12=43 (3 GA)

[defense]

So if we :
Can't use strength of schedule, record, or record and strength of schedule together
Can't use what a person knows of a team such as: talent level of players, team play, cohesiveness etc....
And we can't use the fact that a core group of players has proven themselves in recent years.....what can we use?????? Shots on goal????
sorry, not reliable, goals scored and against....again not reliable... the point this guy is beating beyond recognition now is goals given up.... should we start to use the " team 1 beat team A by that score and we beat team 1 by 4 so........" No not reliable, not consistent.
What should we use then?????
How do pollsters do it????? the crystal ball??? deep prayer???
By the way, after Little Falls finishes out their season they will be plenty prepared for state...even with their "weak" schedule. I'll say again: Anyone believing that Little Falls truely plays a very WEAK schedule obviously knows very little about Minnesota hockey.

[deacon]

I don't understand your argument about how they have proven themselves in the last couple years. What have they proven? That they have a good regular season then get owned when they get to state? Almost beating a team doesn't cut it as far proving anything goes.

[hshckfan08]

I don't understand your argument about how they have proven themselves in the last couple years. What have they proven? That they have a good regular season then get owned when they get to state? Almost beating a team doesn't cut it as far proving anything goes.

Owned? Are you joking? You were probably pissing your pants watching the game against sta last year as they were in it the whole way. Then they demolished blake and mankato west by 5 goals!!!!! That is not getting owned. Playing with the champion and cruising in your next 2 games is saying something.

Goodness, i don't even like Little Falls

[defense]

I don't understand your argument about how they have proven themselves in the last couple years. What have they proven? That they have a good regular season then get owned when they get to state? Almost beating a team doesn't cut it as far proving anything goes.

So getting to state does nothing huh???? tell that to the 16 teams that get one game away and lose each year......
Conference championships don't cut it???? OK, if you play in the Mid-State.

Maybe you don't know the history here. Little Falls as few as 6-7 years ago was a "get better" game for any decent team. In other words Little Falls NEVER was good at all before they started going to state. Back then they would be right around the level of Wadena, Park Rapids, Sauk Centre, Red Lake Falls, Sleepy Eye, Morris, get the drift. Decent teams had a sure win.
Knowing this history, they HAVE proven they belong on the same ice as competitive teams. They have proven that they have arrived on the radar in class a, they have proven they are a strong team. This is what I and I assume anyone else who says the Flyers have proven something is refering to. The game(s) against Little Falls were always sure bet win(s), now they are tough games at best, at worst sure bet loss(es). get it??

[HShockeywatcher]

1. I agree with that statement...if they are playing teams of high caliber. If they are not, I would say a top team doesn't allow goals from other teams.
If Edina, Centennial, Blaine, Holy Angels, Moorhead and a few other teams win all of their games by 1 goal, they will probably be the top team...if Northern Lakes does, they won't be.
If a top team played a bottom team's schedule, they would rarely allow goals, period.

2. You say "A top TEAM wins games.. period." and you follow that up with "they almost beat the state champion...they almost beat the state champion again." So which is it? Is winning all that matters? Or does losing to good teams get you respect?

3.
a. This comment "I have no problem putting Little Falls at #1 at this stage, just because of him." was a made by MNhockey75. I thought it was you, I was wrong. My apologies for that. The point was still the same. I was trying to make a general statement about people posting, you responded and I thought it was you.

I said reffing was bad both ways. I never said one team or the other should have won. St Thomas did out shoot DM 2:1.

b. I'm simply pointing out that it was a close game. It wasn't this dominant game played by LF as some are making it out to be.

4. Not at all. You cannot use one team's experience and discredit another's. That's all.

5. I never said you did. "unless the Flyers are upset during the regular season, the Cadets may have to settle for the No. 2 spot" is what the author of the thread said. This is what I was responding to.

6. "I never said dominated, there is another misquote by you, i said "handled fairly easily"." No, you said "st thomas got handled by centennial" on Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:02 pm in the Class A rankings (1-12-09) thread. You say handled, I said dominated. My bad.

I can admit when I'm wrong, but don't put words into my mouth.
SB24 hit the nail right on the head.

[defense]

1. I agree with that statement...if they are playing teams of high caliber. If they are not, I would say a top team doesn't allow goals from other teams.
If Edina, Centennial, Blaine, Holy Angels, Moorhead and a few other teams win all of their games by 1 goal, they will probably be the top team...if Northern Lakes does, they won't be.
If a top team played a bottom team's schedule, they would rarely allow goals, period.

2. You say "A top TEAM wins games.. period." and you follow that up with "they almost beat the state champion...they almost beat the state champion again." So which is it? Is winning all that matters? Or does losing to good teams get you respect?

But strength of schedule doesn't matter, so it shouldn't matter what caliber of teams they are playing......

3.
a. This comment "I have no problem putting Little Falls at #1 at this stage, just because of him." was a made by MNhockey75. I thought it was you, I was wrong. My apologies for that. The point was still the same. I was trying to make a general statement about people posting, you responded and I thought it was you.

I said reffing was bad both ways. I never said one team or the other should have won. St Thomas did out shoot DM 2:1.

b. I'm simply pointing out that it was a close game. It wasn't this dominant game played by LF as some are making it out to be.

4. Not at all. You cannot use one team's experience and discredit another's. That's all.

5. I never said you did. "unless the Flyers are upset during the regular season, the Cadets may have to settle for the No. 2 spot" is what the author of the thread said. This is what I was responding to.

6. "I never said dominated, there is another misquote by you, i said "handled fairly easily"." No, you said "st thomas got handled by centennial" on Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:02 pm in the Class A rankings (1-12-09) thread. You say handled, I said dominated. My bad.

I can admit when I'm wrong, but don't put words into my mouth.
SB24 hit the nail right on the head.

[HShockeywatcher]

defense,

The first half of your first post supports St Thomas then you go against it. Makes little sense.

History? Tell me how many wins St Thomas had the year before they built an ice arena and try again.

No one is saying getting to state isn't a commendable thing. I'm simply saying that getting to state doesn't suddenly put you ahead of a team who's done well at state. There's a reason 1AA teams are never ranked.

[hshckfan08]

Honestly, i am tired of this as you still dont understand where i'm coming from.
No disrespect whatsoever to SB24, but that is complete speculation on a future outcome, so when you say he hit the nail on the head, i will take that as you agree and nothing else.

Good luck to Little Falls, STA, and everyone else.. It will be an interesting finish to the season.

[deacon]

So they have proven that they are not a pushover anymore, cool. I'll admit that owned was the wrong word to use.

[defense]

So they have proven that they are not a pushover anymore, cool. I'll admit that owned was the wrong word to use.

Thank you for understanding. That seems rare on this thread. None of the teams in section 6a has EVER proven to the rest of the state and all doubters that they can be a seriouse threat to a state title....Fergus got close one year, but Little Falls did the same....Someone HAS to win it.
That said, at the beginning of and throughout a given season you never know how good a team will be at the X. I truley believe Little Falls has what it takes this year, but I don't know if they believe it.

[deacon]

I still don't think that they are the best team in class A nor do I think that they should ranked there for basically the same points that HSHW has made throughout this thread, but at least progress is being made. On another note, I had Applebee's carryout and got the steak and chicken fajitas, it was good.

[defense]

defense,

The first half of your first post supports St Thomas then you go against it. Makes little sense.

History? Tell me how many wins St Thomas had the year before they built an ice arena and try again.

No one is saying getting to state isn't a commendable thing. I'm simply saying that getting to state doesn't suddenly put you ahead of a team who's done well at state. There's a reason 1AA teams are never ranked.

I really do not know where I supported St. Thomas and then whent against them. I don't know what happened in the one where I just quoted you..... I do not know where you are going with the history thing... and as far as not making sense, how about saying that using record and SOS is not how you rank teams and then doing a complete 180 and say that it is OK if a team wins by one goal against a high profile team than the teams that Little Falls has beaten by one goal???
Reading and Comprehension go a long way.

[hshckfan08]

I still don't think that they are the best team in class A nor do I think that they should ranked there for basically the same points that HSHW has made throughout this thread, but at least progress is being made. On another note, I had Applebee's carryout and got the steak and chicken fajitas, it was good.

May i recommend the boneless buffalo wings? Very tasty!

[Goldy Gopher]

So they have proven that they are not a pushover anymore, cool. I'll admit that owned was the wrong word to use.

Thank you for understanding. That seems rare on this thread. None of the teams in section 6a has EVER proven to the rest of the state and all doubters that they can be a seriouse threat to a state title....Fergus got close one year, but Little Falls did the same....Someone HAS to win it.
That said, at the beginning of and throughout a given season you never know how good a team will be at the X. I truley believe Little Falls has what it takes this year, but I don't know if they believe it.

No one HAS to win anything. Does a team from current section 3A HAVE to win state sometime? No. They can't and won't.

[SB24]

if we just want to go by the stats and strength of schedule. then just go to ps2 and this is done.

1. St. Thomas Academy
2. Warroad
3. Breck
4. Little Falls
5. Hermantown
6. St. Cloud Cathedral
7. Alexandria
8. Duluth Marshall
9. Thief River Falls
10. South St. Paul
11. Mahtomedi
12. Rochester Lourdes
13. Red Wing
14. Hibbing
15. Virginia

[power92]

defense,

The first half of your first post supports St Thomas then you go against it. Makes little sense.

History? Tell me how many wins St Thomas had the year before they built an ice arena and try again.

No one is saying getting to state isn't a commendable thing. I'm simply saying that getting to state doesn't suddenly put you ahead of a team who's done well at state. There's a reason 1AA teams are never ranked.

Dude, do you ever stop. You would think after 3 years of arguing about the same thing, you would get sick of it. Defense, hshockeyfan08, all I can say is the best thing to do is ignore this clown. If you look at this thread you can figure out why has over 3000 post in 3 years. We like to call her HSCircletalker or my personal fav. HShockeycrotcher. Good luck.

Crotcher explanation to follow...

[southernmnscout]

We like to call her HSCircletalker or my personal fav. HShockeycrotcher. Good luck.

Crotcher explanation to follow...

Power----I can't wait for the explanation any longer!!!!!!!!!!