Girls Playing on Boys Teams : Looking for Concrete Rule

[mnhcp]

I don't disagree with you whatisicing, but that is perfect world scenario.

It really is no different than Bantams trying out for HS a month after they are already on a youth team. Nothing prohibits that. Then to make it even worse, if a 9th grader goes to a HS that has grades 9-12, they could also conceivably ditch their Bantam team and play JG a month or two after they have already been playing games at the Bantam level.

Granted it is a nightmare for the association, but they can deal with it by putting 16 instead of 15 kids on the youth team roster if they know there is a good chance of someone dropping off the team.

I don't know of very many associations that have bylaws which would not allow this. I do know a few associations that have tryout fees associated with what team you are trying out for, in which case you would have to pay double the try out fees.

It really comes down to numbers of kids in programs. Sometimes the numbers work and sometimes they don't. Work with the association and I bet you find an easier path than playing the system and working against them. They will tell you how the numbers look at each level and if they can help you and your daughter develop where she fits the best.

If they don't want to help you, others have suggested that there are great off season opportunities and I would encourage you to have your program development coordinator help you find a good one.

Sounds like you agree w/ me too. It's hidden in the message below. I was hoping it's wrong but in the end it's appearing somewhat true?

"If it's association hockey you should do what's best for the club! If the club isn't satisfying your needs then play offseason hockey that does. If you get both, you're lucky!"

"Play offseason hockey that does"

[PuxRinmyblood]

The legality is that your daughter has the right to play in either the "youth" or "girls" programs.

Association tryout rules generally govern what you can or cannot do within that framwork. If I read this thread correctly, you wish to try your daughter out for squirts, and if she does not make the team you would like, have her be eligible to try out for a spot on the U10A.

I can't speak for all associations, but in the one my children play in, you would be required to make a choice before tryouts, and once teams are picked, that is where your daughter would play. Tryouts are held at the same time, and they will not allow a "do-over" for that reason. This scenario may be seen as unfair for your daughter, but the alternative is quite cruel for that 15th kid to make the U10A.

So....I think you make the best choice you can and take your chances.

[inthestands]

One of the difficult things in this thread for me is that we are all talking about a 10 year old child.

I've been through a lot of hockey experiences, and have come across few 10 year olds that would have a strong opinion about hockey either way.

From information in these pages, it appears your community is fortunate enough to have more than one girls team at the 10U level. Not the case for many girls. If your daughter doesn't find any teams to her liking, it sounds like you are willing to travel and play in a different program. Let's all hope for this 10 year old player, that is 100% what she wants.

Good luck with your decision, and remember the hockey memories this player has will last her a life time. Not so much the wins and losses, systems learned, and trophies on the shelf, but life long friends, trips to tournaments, and the rest of the life lessons coming down the road for her and you.

No hidden messages. Good luck and make sure it stays fun. By the way, I did catch your comments about D1 and the Olympics were a bit sarcastic....

[mnhcp]

The legality is that your daughter has the right to play in either the "youth" or "girls" programs.

Association tryout rules generally govern what you can or cannot do within that framwork. If I read this thread correctly, you wish to try your daughter out for squirts, and if she does not make the team you would like, have her be eligible to try out for a spot on the U10A.

I can't speak for all associations, but in the one my children play in, you would be required to make a choice before tryouts, and once teams are picked, that is where your daughter would play. Tryouts are held at the same time, and they will not allow a "do-over" for that reason. This scenario may be seen as unfair for your daughter, but the alternative is quite cruel for that 15th kid to make the U10A.

So....I think you make the best choice you can and take your chances.

1. Sure, we wish her to tryout for squirts and have the U10A as the ace in the hole. We're not expecting this. Just wishing.
2. This is what we're expecting ie make the decision stick to it. But an option would be nice though not expected.
3. That 15th U10A kid removed to the B team (and the other bottom 4 or 5) are likely B players anyways. The talent pool is so diverse even within the ranks. This would hardly be an issue if there were 4 U10 Teams then the kid be be properly placed. Boys have this luxury in general.
4. Still deciding. It's just the U10A seems like the easy road.

[mnhcp]

One of the difficult things in this thread for me is that we are all talking about a 10 year old child.

I've been through a lot of hockey experiences, and have come across few 10 year olds that would have a strong opinion about hockey either way.

From information in these pages, it appears your community is fortunate enough to have more than one girls team at the 10U level. Not the case for many girls. If your daughter doesn't find any teams to her liking, it sounds like you are willing to travel and play in a different program. Let's all hope for this 10 year old player, that is 100% what she wants.

Good luck with your decision, and remember the hockey memories this player has will last her a life time. Not so much the wins and losses, systems learned, and trophies on the shelf, but life long friends, trips to tournaments, and the rest of the life lessons coming down the road for her and you.

No hidden messages. Good luck and make sure it stays fun. By the way, I did catch your comments about D1 and the Olympics were a bit sarcastic....

Mostly agreed, but 100%. You never want your kid to get their way 100% of the time. But I get the message...it's all in perspective!

Thanks for the note and yes, I was totally sarcastic!

[mnhcp]

I'll try to keep this short hoping you all can read between the lines.

We're not expecting anything.

But howabout looking at this from a totally different angle.

It can be safely assumed when this sort of issue is brought up there are several things that race through peoples minds in response. I won't lay them all out but usually it's along the lines of nutty dad, are they pushing their kid, parent won't let kid have fun, we don't want a girl on the team, numerous other biases with the list going on.

Let's turn the tables abit. To simple kindness or doing the right thing. This is "not my daughter" we're talking about just an example! What about the gifted athlete "boy or girl".

I'll keep it short as it should be obvious...

What about simply "wanting to help" a gifted player! If you saw little Wayne Gretzky on your team or Natalie Darwitz are you simply going to not recognize the gifts these kids have and not try to help these kids? Wouldn't we all want to say "wow" let's try to make some exceptions to help this kid? Instead (whether boy or girl) everyone is against them in many cases because they're looking out for their wants or even biases wanting to put roadblocks up just because they can.

This get's back to my theory though I wish it weren't the case:

If it's association hockey you should do what's best for the club! If the club isn't satisfying then play offseason hockey that does. If you get both, you're lucky!

[lxhockey]

I don't think you are being fair to your association with that statement.
Associations have to be all things to all members. Even with a paid staff of experts instead of a handful of volunteers, I don't think that would happen 100% to everyone's satisfaction. (Just look at schools which have a paid staff of experts and see how many kids fall through the cracks there!)

If you had a Gretzy kid you would not hesitate to know what team he/she would make. As a matter of fact if that was the case you would be lobbying for the kid to play up a level instead of top team at same level.
(And so would a lot of the parents who would be sick of the Gretzy kid getting to score all the goals on the team)

I said before it's mostly a numbers issue. But if you are trying to map out a plan to fast track your daughter so she will be a star HS player, keep her in the youth program through PWs. At that point she will probably make the HS team while the other girls are playing U14. This will be a rocky road and may have a problem enduring herself to the other girls when she goes back to the girls program. But if she capitalizes on the faster and stronger pace of development, she will be an asset to the HS program.

If you want her to experience the great friendships she will build with other girls her age while they are building and forging their team skills together through the developmental years then go with the U10A
plan.

Just really take to heart the hidden message that all are putting forth that those who seem gifted at hockey at 10 are often surpassed in later years by some who did not seem to be able to play the game well at that 10 year old bench mark.

If you want to find out why it's all a numbers 'game' get elected to your association board and get involved in the administration of the numbers. Most associations have little or no representation from their girls' program at this level. Think about what that means in planning processes for the 'numbers'.

[mnhcp]

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... ssociation

I thought this thread was rather interesting.

To summarize: It's probably a mom who is concerned with the Mite program being divisive due to it being split up between various talent pools. This in turn alienating some boy thus prematurely dropping out.

Then there's a reply from Slasher. His reply defends the practice offering various respected points on why Associations choose to obviously divide the mite talent pool up.

Though this thread has gotten off track from its original intentions Slashers defense directed towards this mothers post nearly makes the same case for some dad who has daughter stuck in a program that doesn't cause her to flourish as a hockey player.

That's all. I just found it interesting.

[mnhcp]

I don't think you are being fair to your association with that statement.
Associations have to be all things to all members. Even with a paid staff of experts instead of a handful of volunteers, I don't think that would happen 100% to everyone's satisfaction. (Just look at schools which have a paid staff of experts and see how many kids fall through the cracks there!)

If you had a Gretzy kid you would not hesitate to know what team he/she would make. As a matter of fact if that was the case you would be lobbying for the kid to play up a level instead of top team at same level.
(And so would a lot of the parents who would be sick of the Gretzy kid getting to score all the goals on the team)

I said before it's mostly a numbers issue. But if you are trying to map out a plan to fast track your daughter so she will be a star HS player, keep her in the youth program through PWs. At that point she will probably make the HS team while the other girls are playing U14. This will be a rocky road and may have a problem enduring herself to the other girls when she goes back to the girls program. But if she capitalizes on the faster and stronger pace of development, she will be an asset to the HS program.

If you want her to experience the great friendships she will build with other girls her age while they are building and forging their team skills together through the developmental years then go with the U10A
plan.

Just really take to heart the hidden message that all are putting forth that those who seem gifted at hockey at 10 are often surpassed in later years by some who did not seem to be able to play the game well at that 10 year old bench mark.

If you want to find out why it's all a numbers 'game' get elected to your association board and get involved in the administration of the numbers. Most associations have little or no representation from their girls' program at this level. Think about what that means in planning processes for the 'numbers'.

I'll keep this one simple! Great post!

[netminder.net]

Have you thought of having her tryout at the U12 level?? Squirts move to Peewees early all the time, why not the girls? Seems to be a nice solution, playing with the girls, only one tryout, and I'm sure there have to be some girls 2 years older that can keep up.

[mnhcp]

Have you thought of having her tryout at the U12 level?? Squirts move to Peewees early all the time, why not the girls? Seems to be a nice solution, playing with the girls, only one tryout, and I'm sure there have to be some girls 2 years older that can keep up.

Thank you for the reply. We only briefly considered but U12B is a step backwards and U12A isn't an option in this association.

[netminder.net]

U12 B is a step down from U10 A?? I dont know much about girls hockey, is this true? I gather by your statement that your association must not offer a U12 A team. Would that not mean that the best players at the 12 year old level would be on that B team? Players improve more in practice than they ever do in games. Practicing with the best 15 (or 12) skaters at a level seems to be a good alternative for skill development, no?

[DPA MacManus]

[quote="netminder.net"]U12 B is a step down from U10 A?? I dont know much about girls hockey, is this true? I gather by your statement that your association must not offer a U12 A team. Would that not mean that the best players at the 12 year old level would be on that B team? Players improve more in practice than they ever do in games. Practicing with the best 15 (or 12) skaters at a level seems to be a good alternative for skill development, no?[/quote]

I may be wrong, but I'm assuming their association will allow the U10 girl to try out at the U12 level, but will not allow that player to take a U12A spot, even if capable.

[mnhcp]

1 U12 B is a step down from U10 A?? I dont know much about girls hockey, is this true? I gather by your statement that your association must not offer a U12 A team. 2 Would that not mean that the best players at the 12 year old level would be on that B team? Players improve more in practice than they ever do in games. Practicing with the best 15 (or 12) skaters at a level seems to be a good alternative for skill development, no?

2 I may be wrong, but I'm assuming their association will allow the U10 girl to try out at the U12 level, but will not allow that player to take a U12A spot, even if capable.

1 What I said is true as it's a young program and this is a bubble. If I'm wrong I'd maybe say the 2 are equal. That's not meant to be an insult to this inexperienced group of skaters who are on the Fasttrack.

2 Your "I may be wrong" comment is actually true as well.

[netminder.net]

I'm sure no one would be insulted by that
mnhcp wrote:

What I said is true as it's a young program and this is a bubble. If I'm wrong I'd maybe say the 2 are equal. That's not meant to be an insult to this inexperienced group of skaters who are on the Fasttrack.

[Hockeydaddy]

There are quite a few associations where the U10A team would beat one of the U12Bs, especially some of the larger associations where they have multiple Bs. Sort of like Squirt A's maybe having more talent than Pee Wee Cs - with the added bonus of no checking in Girls Hockey