How is it not fuzzy in the least? That's an extra. You didn't need that food. So that deer's life has to be in expense. If we're talking about how they were killed by Vick, that's one thing. But dogfighting in general, the dog is still killed and you know that will be the end result. I know nothing about how long it takes or anything of that sort, but I've heard many hunting stories where deer are definitely in pain and have a slow death.
So, if dogfighting were legal and the losing dog were gutted and the meat used for food, would it then be perfectly acceptable?
Wow, 45 minutes, that's crazy. Not saying it will become legal, but if it were there would be rules and regulations for how things worked probably. Not saying the things you say aren't mostly correct, but it's hard to compare how something that's legal is done to something that's illegal. If it were legal it probably wouldn't happen the way it does.
Hunting is just one example, there are many things where animals are treated poorly.
Vick
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Oh geez come on yourself Govs.
Look, I dont have to prove that dogfighting and hunting are the same to make my point.
Listen to yourselves. "A deer only suffers for X minutes but a dog suffers for 45, so there is a big difference and plus we eat the deer"
Again, I dont give a Boof if people hunt and enjoy it.
But to sit up in a deerstand or be in fishing boat watching the little bass that swollowed the hook down to its boofin tail flop on the surface and be sayin" Yah dat Vick guy is real cruel" is kinda weak.
Look, I dont have to prove that dogfighting and hunting are the same to make my point.
Listen to yourselves. "A deer only suffers for X minutes but a dog suffers for 45, so there is a big difference and plus we eat the deer"
Again, I dont give a Boof if people hunt and enjoy it.
But to sit up in a deerstand or be in fishing boat watching the little bass that swollowed the hook down to its boofin tail flop on the surface and be sayin" Yah dat Vick guy is real cruel" is kinda weak.
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Can't Never Tried
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You would be suprised as to how well as race horse is treated....I don't know about race dogs....so I won't pretend to.... 
I am glad that our forefathers hunted and fished, had they not, there would be a lot less posters on here and a lot less traffic.
There is absolutley nothing wrong with going hunting or fishing, as long as you do not waste the game.....yes it may be fun, and there is nothing wrong with that either. If you have to track the animal you shot more then 100 yds you probably should not have shot in the 1st place...
" Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."
Now if you think putting two dogs that have been trained for the sole purpose of killing the other in a ring equates in anyway to hunting or fishing...i'd say that's a little more then fuzzy.
I am glad that our forefathers hunted and fished, had they not, there would be a lot less posters on here and a lot less traffic.
There is absolutley nothing wrong with going hunting or fishing, as long as you do not waste the game.....yes it may be fun, and there is nothing wrong with that either. If you have to track the animal you shot more then 100 yds you probably should not have shot in the 1st place...
" Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."
Now if you think putting two dogs that have been trained for the sole purpose of killing the other in a ring equates in anyway to hunting or fishing...i'd say that's a little more then fuzzy.
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HShockeywatcher
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Deer, fish, fowl, ect = wild game
dogs and cats (unfortunately cats) = domesticated animals that were once pack animals
Pigs, cows, sheep = livestock, raised for food or asset production
That is how I compartmentalize the differences
Dog fighting basically has existed for gambling purposes and it's violent combative nature where dogs are trained and exist to fight when it is real not a necessary except for money. So you are placing an overall domesticed animal in a purposeful violent situation that is doesn't need to be placed.
I for one did not cry when Bambi's father was shot, I was thinking, "yummm venison sausage and steak"
the animal pain and cruelty issue is all your own personal opinion.
So clarity of positions is the only thing that will be reached here; never agreement
dogs and cats (unfortunately cats) = domesticated animals that were once pack animals
Pigs, cows, sheep = livestock, raised for food or asset production
That is how I compartmentalize the differences
Dog fighting basically has existed for gambling purposes and it's violent combative nature where dogs are trained and exist to fight when it is real not a necessary except for money. So you are placing an overall domesticed animal in a purposeful violent situation that is doesn't need to be placed.
I for one did not cry when Bambi's father was shot, I was thinking, "yummm venison sausage and steak"
the animal pain and cruelty issue is all your own personal opinion.
So clarity of positions is the only thing that will be reached here; never agreement
So you'd be willing to eat a pitbull or one of the cocker spaniels they gave them to "train" on to validate your point, correct? It's the same to you - what's the difference?packerboy wrote:Oh geez come on yourself Govs.
Look, I dont have to prove that dogfighting and hunting are the same to make my point.
Listen to yourselves. "A deer only suffers for X minutes but a dog suffers for 45, so there is a big difference and plus we eat the deer"
Again, I dont give a Boof if people hunt and enjoy it.
But to sit up in a deerstand or be in fishing boat watching the little bass that swollowed the hook down to its boofin tail flop on the surface and be sayin" Yah dat Vick guy is real cruel" is kinda weak.
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HShockeywatcher
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Why not? Most meat in most animals is good to eat. The reason it wouldn't be a good idea is that it isn't big enough to make enough meat. But yes, why not eat a dog? People do it in many parts of the world. Personally I wouldn't, just like there are many animals that are eating that I haven't and probably won't eat.
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Can't Never Tried
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HShockeywatcher
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PanthersIn2011
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At the risk of stating the obvious, to compare two things means that you consider not only the similarities but also the differences. There certainly are some similarities between hunting and dogfighting (animals die). The key difference, in my mind, has to do with with mindset of the human participants.
CAVIAT #1) I grew up in a hunting/fishing family with a hunting dog. I can't possibly have an unbiased view of this issue.
CAVIAT #2) I have never been to a dogfight.
My perception of a dogfight is that the allure is watching the loser suffer -- the more violent the fight, the better. Underachievers are destroyed in very unsavory ways. This "sport" seems to be purely about the violence and the gambling; if there are other redeeming qualities, I don't think I've heard them described. I see malice in the people who participate. And I see a total lack of respect for the dogs.
My perception of hunting, on the other hand, comes first hand. I was taught to be patient for a good shot -- try to make a clean kill. The hunt was not in any way improved if the deer suffered and in fact it was worse -- you had to track the deer, there was more mess and less meat, etc. I was taught to respect the animal, the land, the land owner, and so on. I also became aware of hunters who don't live by these guidelines and the negative effect they have on the sport and the environment. I consider poaching to be every bit as wrong as dogfighting.
I see malicious intent in dogfighters. I do not see it in ethical hunters.
PB: I do get your point. There is more to hunting and fishing than just putting food on the table, and that blurs things a bit. But not so much so that I can't morally distinguish a dogfight from a hunt.
CAVIAT #1) I grew up in a hunting/fishing family with a hunting dog. I can't possibly have an unbiased view of this issue.
CAVIAT #2) I have never been to a dogfight.
My perception of a dogfight is that the allure is watching the loser suffer -- the more violent the fight, the better. Underachievers are destroyed in very unsavory ways. This "sport" seems to be purely about the violence and the gambling; if there are other redeeming qualities, I don't think I've heard them described. I see malice in the people who participate. And I see a total lack of respect for the dogs.
My perception of hunting, on the other hand, comes first hand. I was taught to be patient for a good shot -- try to make a clean kill. The hunt was not in any way improved if the deer suffered and in fact it was worse -- you had to track the deer, there was more mess and less meat, etc. I was taught to respect the animal, the land, the land owner, and so on. I also became aware of hunters who don't live by these guidelines and the negative effect they have on the sport and the environment. I consider poaching to be every bit as wrong as dogfighting.
I see malicious intent in dogfighters. I do not see it in ethical hunters.
PB: I do get your point. There is more to hunting and fishing than just putting food on the table, and that blurs things a bit. But not so much so that I can't morally distinguish a dogfight from a hunt.
Know what else is made of meat? Humans. Hungry?HShockeywatcher wrote:Why not? Most meat in most animals is good to eat. The reason it wouldn't be a good idea is that it isn't big enough to make enough meat. But yes, why not eat a dog? People do it in many parts of the world. Personally I wouldn't, just like there are many animals that are eating that I haven't and probably won't eat.
*sigh* I just have nothing left to say to you. It's pretty clear that you'll just say anything to be the center of attention - play both sides of the fence, chime in on things you know nothing about while pretending you do, just saying ridulous things because people will respond... the list goes on. I'm done with you. It's impossible to take you seriously, and I'm just not interested in hearing it anymore.
Anybody know if there's an "ignore" feature on this board? Seriously - I've looked and I'm not seeing it. Is there one?
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Can't Never Tried
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HShockeywatcher
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PanthersIn2011, technically if you're going to consider the differences that would be contrasting the two. Hence the phrase "compare and contrast."
There are probably some who have been to dogfights and not been hunting.
I have never hunt, nor do I intend to, and I don't understand how you can say you "were taught to respect the animal" and yet you're out there to kill it. In my book that's the exact opposite of respect.
Govs, yes there is meat in humans. That's why they have historically been eaten by other animals. Not only would cannibalism be wrong for the obvious reasons, there are diseases such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and others, that you get from eating your own species. This is not just in humans, but if cows are fed cows they get brain diseases too. Thought ya had me there, nice try
No, there isn't an ignore button, but if no one posts comments to me then I'd have nothing to respond to. I find it really odd that people come on a discussion board where the intent is to discuss opinions and get so bent out of shape when people have differing opinions.
There are probably some who have been to dogfights and not been hunting.
I have never hunt, nor do I intend to, and I don't understand how you can say you "were taught to respect the animal" and yet you're out there to kill it. In my book that's the exact opposite of respect.
Govs, yes there is meat in humans. That's why they have historically been eaten by other animals. Not only would cannibalism be wrong for the obvious reasons, there are diseases such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and others, that you get from eating your own species. This is not just in humans, but if cows are fed cows they get brain diseases too. Thought ya had me there, nice try
No, there isn't an ignore button, but if no one posts comments to me then I'd have nothing to respond to. I find it really odd that people come on a discussion board where the intent is to discuss opinions and get so bent out of shape when people have differing opinions.
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Neutron 14
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I'm guessing CNT is laughing his a** of right now...Govs93 wrote: *sigh* I just have nothing left to say to you. It's pretty clear that you'll just say anything to be the center of attention - play both sides of the fence, chime in on things you know nothing about while pretending you do, just saying ridulous things because people will respond... the list goes on. I'm done with you. It's impossible to take you seriously, and I'm just not interested in hearing it anymore.
Anybody know if there's an "ignore" feature on this board? Seriously - I've looked and I'm not seeing it. Is there one?
I have to as wellNeutron 14 wrote:I'm guessing CNT is laughing his a** of right now...Govs93 wrote: *sigh* I just have nothing left to say to you. It's pretty clear that you'll just say anything to be the center of attention - play both sides of the fence, chime in on things you know nothing about while pretending you do, just saying ridulous things because people will respond... the list goes on. I'm done with you. It's impossible to take you seriously, and I'm just not interested in hearing it anymore.
Anybody know if there's an "ignore" feature on this board? Seriously - I've looked and I'm not seeing it. Is there one?
- I'm such a chump. The real kick in the balls is that I have a response - direct from the Mayo Clinic - for Circle and his Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease comment, but I'm going to let it go. BOY, IT SURE IS A NICE DAY OUT THERE, ISN'T IT?!
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Neutron 14
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Ya just gotta feel sorry for him. Imagine living in a world where you're the only sane one and everyone else is nuts. Cue the Twilight Zone music...Govs93 wrote: I have to as well
BOY, IT SURE IS A NICE DAY OUT THERE, ISN'T IT?!
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Can't Never Tried
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Babble ! Babble ! Babble ! Babble ! Babble ! Babble ! Babble !No, there isn't an ignore button, but if no one posts comments to me then I'd have nothing to respond to. I find it really odd that people come on a discussion board where the intent is to discuss opinions and get so bent out of shape when people have differing opinions.
You'd be right Neut
And as 2A Oldtimer once said...
I think I am going to make that my signature line if it's get approved.Listening to HSW "It only makes you stupider, then sends you to jupiter"
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HShockeywatcher
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Neutron 14
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BIAFP wrote: There has to be a small village out there somewhere missing their idiot!
and they are very happy about!
HShw - "were taught to respect the animal" and yet you're out there to kill it. In my book that's the exact opposite of respect.
I think many American Indian Tribes from years back might not buy your opinion in that statement
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Can't Never Tried
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I"m sure they're not out looking for him...BIAFP wrote:There has to be a small village out there somewhere missing their idiot!HShockeywatcher wrote:You bring up eating people of your own kind and expect me not to answer?
Complain about me posting, then say you're going to continue to respond. Hmmm...
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HShockeywatcher
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I know many rural familes that count on the supply of meat from hunting to help supplement their families food resources. I think they would also disagree with your assessment. I guess you have not seen the rural poverty of many areas of the US.HShockeywatcher wrote:"I think many American Indian Tribes from years back might not buy your opinion in that statement"
tomASS, there's a huge difference between hunting for survival and hunting for sport. Those tribes needed the food they hunted to survive. We don't.