Hudson B Teams

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:36 am

At the top or near the top of all the B rankings. Is there a reason they ONLY play B-1?

I guess it's a positive that its giving the Edina and Wayzata teams some competition at the top...

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:08 am

I'm guessing they play under the USA Hockey age rules so they have younger kids on their teams on average. That would be the reason I'd imagine.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:20 am

Part of the reason FL wants out of D2.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:47 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:I'm guessing they play under the USA Hockey age rules so they have younger kids on their teams on average. That would be the reason I'd imagine.

Would playing A here mess up their classification in Wisconsin?

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:13 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:I'm guessing they play under the USA Hockey age rules so they have younger kids on their teams on average. That would be the reason I'd imagine.
Would playing A here mess up their classification in Wisconsin?

Historically, Hudson and Superior both play in MN Districts, follow MN age rules and play in MN playoffs. Not sure if something has changed for this year or not but histroically there would not be anything to "mess with" for Wisconsin because those two do not participate in anything of consequence in Wisconsin. They opt out of out playoffs and state tournaments, and legaues etc,..... to follow MN guidelines and play all things "Minnesota"..... again if something changed this season I am not aware of it, it's possible but just didn't hear about it, but usually they think they are part of MN and do things the way you do them not the way we do them.

Even if they did follow our brth year etc.... playing "A" in MN would do anything to their WI classifications, the only thing that can or would mess with it is what birth year rules they follow, ours or yours, but again they don't participate in anything so nothing to mess with, hope that makes sense

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:14 pm

JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:I'm guessing they play under the USA Hockey age rules so they have younger kids on their teams on average. That would be the reason I'd imagine.
Would playing A here mess up their classification in Wisconsin?
Historically, Hudson and Superior both play in MN Districts, follow MN age rules and play in MN playoffs. Not sure if something has changed for this year or not but histroically there would not be anything to "mess with" for Wisconsin because those two do not participate in anything of consequence in Wisconsin. They opt out of out playoffs and state tournaments, and legaues etc,..... to follow MN guidelines and play all things "Minnesota"..... again if something changed this season I am not aware of it, it's possible but just didn't hear about it, but usually they think they are part of MN and do things the way you do them not the way we do them. Even if they did follow our brth year etc.... playing "A" in MN would do anything to their WI classifications, the only thing that can or would mess with it is what birth year rules they follow, ours or yours, but again they don't participate in anything so nothing to mess with, hope that makes sense

I thought the Wisconsin teams went back to their own state for the post season?

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:30 pm

When I was in Hudson this winter they had all sorts of banners and other items from their Wisconsin State Playoff successes. I figured they played for state in Wisconsin.

The birth year thing does make a difference. All it takes is 2 or 3 dominant platers who are up to 6 months older to change the whole complexion of a team. That's the reason I figured they stayed in B.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:26 pm

JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
SCBlueLiner wrote:I'm guessing they play under the USA Hockey age rules so they have younger kids on their teams on average. That would be the reason I'd imagine.
Would playing A here mess up their classification in Wisconsin?
Historically, Hudson and Superior both play in MN Districts, follow MN age rules and play in MN playoffs. Not sure if something has changed for this year or not but histroically there would not be anything to "mess with" for Wisconsin because those two do not participate in anything of consequence in Wisconsin. They opt out of out playoffs and state tournaments, and legaues etc,..... to follow MN guidelines and play all things "Minnesota"..... again if something changed this season I am not aware of it, it's possible but just didn't hear about it, but usually they think they are part of MN and do things the way you do them not the way we do them. Even if they did follow our brth year etc.... playing "A" in MN would do anything to their WI classifications, the only thing that can or would mess with it is what birth year rules they follow, ours or yours, but again they don't participate in anything so nothing to mess with, hope that makes sense

Superior is not part of MN District 11, which I assume is where they would be if they were part of a MN District. What is nice about Superior though is that MN District 11 Mite Teams can go play in Superior as they please, whereas otherwise they have to ask permission to travel outside the District. That agreement has been in place for a long time. Playing in Superior is a great experience for MN Mite Teams. They have a whole different take on Mite Hockey in Superior vs. District 11 in MN.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:03 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote: Would playing A here mess up their classification in Wisconsin?
Historically, Hudson and Superior both play in MN Districts, follow MN age rules and play in MN playoffs. Not sure if something has changed for this year or not but histroically there would not be anything to "mess with" for Wisconsin because those two do not participate in anything of consequence in Wisconsin. They opt out of out playoffs and state tournaments, and legaues etc,..... to follow MN guidelines and play all things "Minnesota"..... again if something changed this season I am not aware of it, it's possible but just didn't hear about it, but usually they think they are part of MN and do things the way you do them not the way we do them. Even if they did follow our brth year etc.... playing "A" in MN would do anything to their WI classifications, the only thing that can or would mess with it is what birth year rules they follow, ours or yours, but again they don't participate in anything so nothing to mess with, hope that makes sense
I thought the Wisconsin teams went back to their own state for the post season?

Hudson has floated back and forth over the years on this I guess. Was just talking to a WAHA rep and I guess Hudson is "back" as part of WAHA for postseason this year, they used to be part of it, then they did leave for a number of years though but I guess they are back. Superior has never participated at the youth levels for postseason play since I started being part of youth hockey as a parent which is going on about 9 years now, not sure about their entire history or whatever but they have not participated in anything recently. So I guess Hudson is back in line with WAHA and our WI birth cutoffs etc.... though it is a relatively recent thing, as for Superior we'll know shortly if they have changed this year as well but I haven't heard anything.... it's weird.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:33 am

JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
JSR wrote: Historically, Hudson and Superior both play in MN Districts, follow MN age rules and play in MN playoffs. Not sure if something has changed for this year or not but histroically there would not be anything to "mess with" for Wisconsin because those two do not participate in anything of consequence in Wisconsin. They opt out of out playoffs and state tournaments, and legaues etc,..... to follow MN guidelines and play all things "Minnesota"..... again if something changed this season I am not aware of it, it's possible but just didn't hear about it, but usually they think they are part of MN and do things the way you do them not the way we do them. Even if they did follow our brth year etc.... playing "A" in MN would do anything to their WI classifications, the only thing that can or would mess with it is what birth year rules they follow, ours or yours, but again they don't participate in anything so nothing to mess with, hope that makes sense
I thought the Wisconsin teams went back to their own state for the post season?
Hudson has floated back and forth over the years on this I guess. Was just talking to a WAHA rep and I guess Hudson is "back" as part of WAHA for postseason this year, they used to be part of it, then they did leave for a number of years though but I guess they are back. Superior has never participated at the youth levels for postseason play since I started being part of youth hockey as a parent which is going on about 9 years now, not sure about their entire history or whatever but they have not participated in anything recently. So I guess Hudson is back in line with WAHA and our WI birth cutoffs etc.... though it is a relatively recent thing, as for Superior we'll know shortly if they have changed this year as well but I haven't heard anything.... it's weird.

I stand corrected, it looks like Superior is part of MN District 11. For some reason they are not listed on the District 11 website, however.

From the SAHA website:

The Superior Association, despite being a Wisconsin team, has followed Minnesota Hockey rules when forming their youth teams. By Superior doing so, their Spartan teams can compete in District 11 (along with Duluth teams, Cloquet, Proctor and Hermantown). This year, despite being a smaller association in numbers (Superior’s population is approximately 27,000) they have formed a peewee AA and peewee A team for the second year in a row following Minnesota guidelines.

There is a simple reason for Superior following Minnesota Hockey rules when forming teams, cost. The Superior Association is in WAHA’s Region 1 and its nearest competitor is a 150 mile round trip, most competitors are well over 200 miles. Minnesota’s District 11 teams are a 10-20 minute drive across a bridge.

Ten gallons of gas plus an overnight stay and there goes $200 from a parent’s budget. Multiply that by 20 and that is a cool $4000. So they play Minnesota Hockey, but it costs them. They can’t play in the Wisconsin State Tourneys with the same teams.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:01 am

Froggy Richards wrote:
JSR wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote: I thought the Wisconsin teams went back to their own state for the post season?
Hudson has floated back and forth over the years on this I guess. Was just talking to a WAHA rep and I guess Hudson is "back" as part of WAHA for postseason this year, they used to be part of it, then they did leave for a number of years though but I guess they are back. Superior has never participated at the youth levels for postseason play since I started being part of youth hockey as a parent which is going on about 9 years now, not sure about their entire history or whatever but they have not participated in anything recently. So I guess Hudson is back in line with WAHA and our WI birth cutoffs etc.... though it is a relatively recent thing, as for Superior we'll know shortly if they have changed this year as well but I haven't heard anything.... it's weird.
I stand corrected, it looks like Superior is part of MN District 11. For some reason they are not listed on the District 11 website, however.

From the SAHA website:

The Superior Association, despite being a Wisconsin team, has followed Minnesota Hockey rules when forming their youth teams. By Superior doing so, their Spartan teams can compete in District 11 (along with Duluth teams, Cloquet, Proctor and Hermantown). This year, despite being a smaller association in numbers (Superior’s population is approximately 27,000) they have formed a peewee AA and peewee A team for the second year in a row following Minnesota guidelines.

There is a simple reason for Superior following Minnesota Hockey rules when forming teams, cost. The Superior Association is in WAHA’s Region 1 and its nearest competitor is a 150 mile round trip, most competitors are well over 200 miles. Minnesota’s District 11 teams are a 10-20 minute drive across a bridge.

Ten gallons of gas plus an overnight stay and there goes $200 from a parent’s budget. Multiply that by 20 and that is a cool $4000. So they play Minnesota Hockey, but it costs them. They can’t play in the Wisconsin State Tourneys with the same teams.

That is in line with what I had thought, you just made me hesitate when you originally said they weren't part of District 11, but yes they've been part of that for years, we are back on same page, though to be clear there are many associations that Superior COULD play that are alot closer than 150 miles away, now Superior may feel they are way better than those teams and would not gain much by playing them but technically there are numerous teams alot closer than 150 miles away, maybe just none that would give them a good game at the "A" level...... Again Hudson on the other hand had been part of some other MN District as well in the recent past but recently severed that relationship to return to WAHA and play in our state tourney etc.... though I do think they maintain some sort of regular season play with MN teams though I am not exactly sure on the details.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:56 am

Hudson/Baldwin/Somerset/Riverfalls/Newrichmond are all in D2. As we speak. Again this is one of FL's main reasons for wanting to leave D2.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:41 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Hudson/Baldwin/Somerset/Riverfalls/Newrichmond are all in D2. As we speak. Again this is one of FL's main reasons for wanting to leave D2.

OG, is that for league play? Because to my knowledge all of those associations follow calendar year birth year for age cutoff (like the rest of WI) and also play in the WI Regional and State playoffs? They do not participate in the MN district or state playoffs do they?

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:20 pm

JSR wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Hudson/Baldwin/Somerset/Riverfalls/Newrichmond are all in D2. As we speak. Again this is one of FL's main reasons for wanting to leave D2.
OG, is that for league play? Because to my knowledge all of those associations follow calendar year birth year for age cutoff (like the rest of WI) and also play in the WI Regional and State playoffs? They do not participate in the MN district or state playoffs do they?

Just found out on Tuesday that Superior is not eligible to participate in District 11 playoffs or state, even though they are part of it during the regular season. I guess there has been a recent push to allow them to compete, but as of right now they give up all Postseason play by aligning with Minnesota's rules. That's a pretty big credit to them. They are putting development ahead of their kids having a chance to play in the Postseason. Kind of too bad for the kids though.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:48 pm

Froggy Richards wrote:
JSR wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Hudson/Baldwin/Somerset/Riverfalls/Newrichmond are all in D2. As we speak. Again this is one of FL's main reasons for wanting to leave D2.
OG, is that for league play? Because to my knowledge all of those associations follow calendar year birth year for age cutoff (like the rest of WI) and also play in the WI Regional and State playoffs? They do not participate in the MN district or state playoffs do they?
Just found out on Tuesday that Superior is not eligible to participate in District 11 playoffs or state, even though they are part of it during the regular season. I guess there has been a recent push to allow them to compete, but as of right now they give up all Postseason play by aligning with Minnesota's rules. That's a pretty big credit to them. They are putting development ahead of their kids having a chance to play in the Postseason. Kind of too bad for the kids though.

That jives with what I have thought/known about Superior historically. These other associations are a bit of "mystery" on what they are trying to accomplish, seems like they want to have their cake and eat it too....

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:15 pm

Just to clarify, this is Hudson's 3rd yr following WAHA/US Hockey guidelines for rostering their teams. The membership vote to change from MN guidelines was very close. The western Wi teams play as guests in D2 for game scheduling purposes. The Wi teams cannot participate in any post season games for MN Hockey. The same applies to Superior YHA. The reason for the B1 participation vs A has to do with the age differential of MN teams vs Wi. For example: WBL has approx 120 peewees (60 1st yrs and 60 2nd yrs) . On average 30 of the 2nd yrs are 2000 birth years. In Wi, those 30 players would be replaced by squirts.

FL's problem is not playing western Wi teams. Their problems are WBL,Stillwater, and problems of their own making.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:22 pm

What are you talking about nu2 ?? FL is now the 3rd largest assc. in D2. Our B and C teams are sent driving to Baldwin ??? You think that helps to "grow the sport" ???? The mite set up in D2 is a joke. D2 has no b2 level at squirts. Only 4 AA programs left.[and Roseville may be opting down soon] Not to mention the folks watching the check book[remember the missing $$] Don't get me started !! I still have 4 kids skating and my oldest 94, went through the D2 gong show already..

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:19 am

old goalie85 wrote:What are you talking about nu2 ?? FL is now the 3rd largest assc. in D2. Our B and C teams are sent driving to Baldwin ??? You think that helps to "grow the sport" ???? The mite set up in D2 is a joke. D2 has no b2 level at squirts. Only 4 AA programs left.[and Roseville may be opting down soon] Not to mention the folks watching the check book[remember the missing $$] Don't get me started !! I still have 4 kids skating and my oldest 94, went through the D2 gong show already..

Curious as to what you mean by the Mite setup? Can you expand on that?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:27 am

D2 used to have what was called the Ponie progam. Kinda a Amite if you will. Made it much easy to set up games for "older" mites. Now every assc. does their own thing. D10 for example has mite A/B/C/D. making it a workable system to operate within. Speaking of D2/Stillwater/WBL. What happened to the refs for the Bantam AA games last night ??? No show!! Come On !!!

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:04 am

I understand your problems with D2. Since the thread was started about Hudson B teams, I wanted to explain , that those Wi schools are trying to have their teams compete against MN teams with the same (or close) age demographics.

FL wanting to go to D10 may be true.It would not be for travel reasons to Baldwin. I believe only 2 FL teams (BB1 and PWC) have drove the 1 hr to Baldwin this season.Both games were on Sundays.
(people from other districts would mock and ridicule us for complaining about a 1 hr drive one time per season)

If FL wants to move for competitive purposes, well....look at the D2 standings, except for the Squirt C team( undefeated- well done), FL teams are having all the comp they can handle.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:23 am

nu2hockey wrote:I understand your problems with D2. Since the thread was started about Hudson B teams, I wanted to explain , that those Wi schools are trying to have their teams compete against MN teams with the same (or close) age demographics.

FL wanting to go to D10 may be true.It would not be for travel reasons to Baldwin. I believe only 2 FL teams (BB1 and PWC) have drove the 1 hr to Baldwin this season.Both games were on Sundays.
(people from other districts would mock and ridicule us for complaining about a 1 hr drive one time per season)

If FL wants to move for competitive purposes, well....look at the D2 standings, except for the Squirt C team( undefeated- well done), FL teams are having all the comp they can handle.

You seem to be fixated on one aspect and are refusing to hear all the negatives he's described. Forest Lake is surrounded by D-10 associations.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:30 am

Maybe we [FL] are just worried about the next time D2 loses hundreds of thousands of $$$$... Why do you care where FL plays ???

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:58 am

FL should play where they want. The statement was that they were wanting to leave D2 because of the travel. IMO it is probably more about D2. Can't blame FL for that . D2 IMO is a poster child for ....( I'll be nice)
How Not To Run a MN Hockey District.

Maybe this should be a new thread, since it diverges from the original topic.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:11 am

Agreed .

Stripes2011 · Post by **Stripes2011** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:13 pm

off original post, but in line with the direction it has taken when talking travel distance. Is Princeton and St Cloud still in District 10?

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