Lucia Video

YouthHockeyHub · Post by **YouthHockeyHub** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:33 pm

Saw this video today (forgive me if it is "old news"), but it seems like he talks about 5 or so common themes that are discussed on this board.

I really enjoyed it.

http://youthhockeyhub.com/lucia/

This is nuts! · Post by **This is nuts!** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:29 am

That is a great video... He couldn't be more right. Win at all cost is the theme of youth hockey..

The funny thing is if you ask most hockey players they will tell you the most fun they have is during the summer is playing in the 3 on 3 tournys where coaches arent involved and they can just play the game....

ahastars03 · Post by **ahastars03** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:02 am

Yeah the 3 on 3 tourney when teams are scoring 30 goals in a game. Of course kids like that, they don't have to play any defense.

This is nuts! · Post by **This is nuts!** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:49 am

ahastars03 wrote:Yeah the 3 on 3 tourney when teams are scoring 30 goals in a game. Of course kids like that, they don't have to play any defense.

You missed my point, its as close as it comes to outdoor unorganized shinny hockey as it gets. And by the way scoring 30 goals a game is fun for a 10 year old kid. Much more fun then having a coach chewing your ass cuz you coughed the puck up at the blue line because you tried to beat a guy...

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:06 am

I find this viseo to be a bit disingenuous for this reason. He "says' all the right things in this speech yet he is out there recruiting 14 year olds for college scholarships. He is hypocritical he says and I quote "just becasue a kid is great at 13 years old doesn't mean he'll be great at 19 or 20" and yet he and his brethren are offering schollies to 14 year olds...... If he doesn't think THAT almost alone is what is fueling the problem he is describing then he is blind. If he TRULY believed in what he says he would be advocating and advocating HARD that a kid cannot be offered a scholarship until he's atleast 17 years old, but I have not heard him do that, but maybe he has and I am wrong but I haven't heard about it.... think about it...

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:59 am

JSR wrote:I find this viseo to be a bit disingenuous for this reason. He "says' all the right things in this speech yet he is out there recruiting 14 year olds for college scholarships. He is hypocritical he says and I quote "just becasue a kid is great at 13 years old doesn't mean he'll be great at 19 or 20" and yet he and his brethren are offering schollies to 14 year olds...... If he doesn't think THAT almost alone is what is fueling the problem he is describing then he is blind. If he TRULY believed in what he says he would be advocating and advocating HARD that a kid cannot be offered a scholarship until he's atleast 17 years old, but I have not heard him do that, but maybe he has and I am wrong but I haven't heard about it.... think about it...

BS. He does not offer schollies to 14 yo kids. He has fought against, and proposed rule changes to prohibit, recruitment of underage players for years. Unfortunately he has to try and stay competitive in the most competitive league in the country, so he sometimes needs to take kids earlier than he would like if the high end kids want to come in early.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:15 pm

C-dad wrote:
JSR wrote:I find this viseo to be a bit disingenuous for this reason. He "says' all the right things in this speech yet he is out there recruiting 14 year olds for college scholarships. He is hypocritical he says and I quote "just becasue a kid is great at 13 years old doesn't mean he'll be great at 19 or 20" and yet he and his brethren are offering schollies to 14 year olds...... If he doesn't think THAT almost alone is what is fueling the problem he is describing then he is blind. If he TRULY believed in what he says he would be advocating and advocating HARD that a kid cannot be offered a scholarship until he's atleast 17 years old, but I have not heard him do that, but maybe he has and I am wrong but I haven't heard about it.... think about it...
BS. He does not offer schollies to 14 yo kids. He has fought against, and proposed rule changes to prohibit, recruitment of underage players for years. Unfortunately he has to try and stay competitive in the most competitive league in the country, so he sometimes needs to take kids earlier than he would like if the high end kids want to come in early.

FIrst you do understand I do not mean they will play at age 14 just that he gets a verbal committment at that point.... If that part was clear then I think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Either he does it or he doesn't. The fact that you are saying he does do it regardless of WHY is the very point I am making. As for you saying he "doesn't do it", are you sure... cuz maybe I am wrong but I thought I remembered Jordan Schmaltz accepting an offer at age 14 to the University of Wisconsin but also having fielded offers from several others including Minnesota at that time.... Schmaltz has since changed his mind of course and is now off to UND, but still..... either you are part of the problem or part of the solution you can't be both...

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:22 pm

C-dad wrote:BS. He does not offer schollies to 14 yo kids. He has fought against, and proposed rule changes to prohibit, recruitment of underage players for years. Unfortunately he has to try and stay competitive in the most competitive league in the country, so he sometimes needs to take kids earlier than he would like if the high end kids want to come in early.

Saying one thing but doing another is lying. Supposedly having strong beliefs that you don't follow because they are inconvenient is hypocrisy. Is Lucia a lier or a hypocrite? If he really doesn't believe that early results is an good indicator of eventual quality he's a fool to recruit any player younger than college age.

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:30 pm

JSR:

Don Lucia does not regularly offer scholarships to kids at age 14. That simply is not true. He cannot be held accountable for 'his brethren' and to cite what they do as an example of his hypocrisy makes no sense.

Typically the kids are 16 1/2 to 17 1/2 for Minnesota and most other programs.

Just like you can take a shot at the guy, others do the same if a top player from the state of Minnesota chooses a rival school. So in the rare case where he is recruiting someone at a younger age it is hard to say that's his choice. Maybe the lesser of two evils.

I am not aware of any evidence that Schmaltz was offered by Lucia at age 14. We know he was offered by Wisconsin. He may have been recruited by Minnesota.

Age 16 1/2 is usually 11th grade or the summer leading up to it. I don't see that as too early. Certainly it is commonly accepted for every other sport.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:36 pm

As for 3 on 3 games, any lack of defence is due to player laziness, not game format. Some players are too lazy to play both ways when the coach isn't watching. Those kids won't go far.

I've watched many low scoring 3 on 3 games. They're much more exciting than hour long 30-28 shootouts.[/quote]

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:48 pm

O-townClown wrote:JSR:

Don Lucia does not regularly offer scholarships to kids at age 14. That simply is not true. He cannot be held accountable for 'his brethren' and to cite what they do as an example of his hypocrisy makes no sense.

Typically the kids are 16 1/2 to 17 1/2 for Minnesota and most other programs.

Just like you can take a shot at the guy, others do the same if a top player from the state of Minnesota chooses a rival school. So in the rare case where he is recruiting someone at a younger age it is hard to say that's his choice. Maybe the lesser of two evils.

I am not aware of any evidence that Schmaltz was offered by Lucia at age 14. We know he was offered by Wisconsin. He may have been recruited by Minnesota.

Age 16 1/2 is usually 11th grade or the summer leading up to it. I don't see that as too early. Certainly it is commonly accepted for every other sport.

Where did I use the word regularly. If he has done it even once it's hypocrisy. I am not taking a shot at the guy, I have no ill wil against him, I am merely pointing out his words ring hollow if the true factor that drives the problem is not being rooted out and even in his speech he says nothing about the root of the so called problem he describes... I am not saying i have a problem with offering scholarships to 16 year olds or even 14 year olds, yay for them I say, but you cannot say what he said and yet do what he does and not see the hypocrisy in the statement regardless of whether it's accepted practice or not.

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:19 pm

JSR wrote:Where did I use the word regularly. If he has done it even once it's hypocrisy.

It took me 10 seconds to think of two scenarios where Lucia would not be a hypocrite for offering a 14-year-old a scholarship even though he openly decries that practice.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Jordan Schmaltz recruiting saga. Since I don't, I'll refrain from condemning people with words that carry a strong negative connotation.

No matter, I'll just say we took far different things from watching Don Lucia address a room full of hockey parents on the topic of crossice Mites or whatever the context was. It clearly is an introductory level age group.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:34 pm

It took me 10 seconds to think of two scenarios where Lucia would not be a hypocrite for offering a 14-year-old a scholarship even though he openly decries that practice.

Huh?? Impossible, he either decries it and NEVER does it EVER.... OR he is a hypocrite... there is ZERO grey area on this one.....

I don't know the ins and outs of the Jordan Schmaltz recruiting saga. Since I don't, I'll refrain from condemning people with words that carry a strong negative connotation.

No matter, I'll just say we took far different things from watching Don Lucia address a room full of hockey parents on the topic of crossice Mites or whatever the context was. It clearly is an introductory level age group.

Fair enough on the rest of it... you are right, we took different view pointts, I hate being preached to by those who do not practice what they preach no matter the venue....

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:56 pm

Thanks for posting the video. It was a great message when he said it at the first HEP program at the Xcel, what 9 years ago? I was there at the time. And it's still great today.

I didn't see anywhere in that video that he said anything about recruiting, or not recruiting, 14 yo kids. And I also have yet to see any evidence from JSR that he HAS recruited 14 yo kids. When JSR comes up with such evidence, then I'd be glad to discuss whether Lucia is a hypocrite or not.

If a high end kid of 14 or 15 goes to him and says "I want to be a Gopher some day" I'm sure he has said "that's great, if you keep up your play, I'm sure we can find a place for you." That is not recruiting.

Section 8 guy · Post by **Section 8 guy** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:54 pm

JSR you are way off base on this one.

Don Lucia has been very vocal in pushing for tighter rules around what ages coaches can talk to possible recruits at. Very vocal. If the rules are changed he will have likely been the major force that pioneered them. He's been that vocal and has tried to be an agent of change on this issue.

Until those rules are changed as he would like, he would be foolish to force himself to live by completely different rules than the coaches he is recruiting against. To expect him to is unrealistic. He has opinions on the topic but he's also not stupid. He has a very high paying job. That makes him a man with a job to do, not a hypocrite.

All that said, from everything I see and hear Lucia is not one of the coaches that is frequently out talking to the kids that are real young and early in the process. When he does it it seems to be on a defensive basis where another coach has already talked to them and he needs to defend his turf.

There is a difference. A fairly big one.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:54 pm

Kinda like a cop I know that gets drunk and drives. Then goes to work and gives out D.U.I. tickets ???

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:43 pm

Section 8:

Thanks. That's one. I could see Lucia watching a game with 14 year olds and expressing interest in a kid. (Defined as "recruiting" him.) At some point the kid's father says he has an offer in hand from a rival school. Lucia might say, "well, we'll have a scholarship too for your son." (Nebulous, falls short of an offer.)

Kid commits to the rival school. "But 14 is sooooo young!" Dad could easily say, "he had offers from other schools too." Of course, we know where you stand since there is zero gray area.

Scenario 2 that I envisioned was a guy Lucia knows. Maybe he played in HS or college with him or maybe the guy himself used to be a college coach. His kid is a stud. Dad says to Don, "you know I'd like my son to play for you. I really don't want a bunch of people hassling us. Not for a few years. Can we just have my kid give you a verbal so we're left alone?" I could easily see a coach doing that. He's got the inside track. If the kid doesn't work out he's obligated to nothing.

Verbal commitments aren't worth the paper they're printed on. A lot of people have been up in arms over them. I didn't realize what a crock they were until Taylor King after 8th grade gave a verbal to UCLA. How'd that work out? Means next to nothing.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:52 am

Look at the basketball world. Those kids start giving commitments around 7th grade.Switch 3 or 4 times. Then go pro after semester of school. I hope college hockey doesn't turn out like that.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:20 am

Per NCAA recruiting guidelines..
Contact with potential student athlete can begin on JUne 15th following sophmore year in high school with basic, generic, non-athletic information and can include sport camp information.
Telephone calls limited to 1 per month.

Recruiting opportunities and contacts are limited.

There are not a lot of 14 year-olds recruited.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:04 am

They use the AAU coaches in other sports. Could be the Tier 1 coaches in hockey someday.

The Huge Hook · Post by **The Huge Hook** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:18 am

O-townClown wrote: Verbal commitments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

I'm not gonna take the bait, wait, wait. Nope, not gonna do it.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:18 pm

Until those rules are changed as he would like, he would be foolish to force himself to live by completely different rules than the coaches he is recruiting against. To expect him to is unrealistic. He has opinions on the topic but he's also not stupid. He has a very high paying job. That makes him a man with a job to do, not a hypocrite....

You need to look up the definition of the word hyporite in the dictionary..... that is all

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:21 pm

elliott70 wrote:Per NCAA recruiting guidelines..
Contact with potential student athlete can begin on JUne 15th following sophmore year in high school with basic, generic, non-athletic information and can include sport camp information.
Telephone calls limited to 1 per month.

Recruiting opportunities and contacts are limited.

There are not a lot of 14 year-olds recruited.

Txts, Facebook and Twitter do not have the same guidelines..... also I believe that version of the rule you posted has alot more to it than that as "contact" is a nebulous thing in recruiting. If you don't think 14 year olds are being contacted your head is in the sand.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:36 pm

This is a stupid direction to take this topic. We all know the kids that made verbals to the U of M last year and they were mostly high school juniors. One was older. End of discussion.

Snap Happy · Post by **Snap Happy** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:04 pm

I watched the video -- and my comment is in line with the subject of the video.

Thank you Don. This video should be viewed by all coaches and parents prior to the hockey season. And then again in the middle. And then again near the end.

Kids will develop more if they are having fun.