NHL Trivia

[Quasar]

Here’s a little NHL trivia for feeding the thought process.

Not counting any players from outside Canada and the United States, there have been 5,499 players in the NHL since it’s beginning.

4,226 Canadians 84%
873 Americans 16%
206 Minnesotans 3.7%

Some of the players listed only played a few games, and as Greybeard has already pointed out, there are some errors in the data base.

My question …. is 3 or 4 percent the magic number?

As in ...Would 3% of the total Bantams in District ? Be able to form a Tier 1 level club?

Would 3% of all the Bantams in Minnesota be able to form 3 high performance clubs?

[JSR]

Quasar those are interesting numbers. Canada has had almost 20 times as many NHL players as MN. Wow. MN is the state of hockey in the USA. Canada's total country population is roughly about 6 times that of Minnesota's yet they've produced 20 times more NHL hockey players based on that data. Wow, I figured the totals for the rest of USA etc... would be about what they are but never put pen to paper on the rest....... highly illuminating to say the least. Really goes to show you that even in a place like MN hockey is still not really "king" like it is in Canada. If it were those numbers wouldn't be like that.

[Eric1984]

A bit misleading if only because the NHL was almost exclusively Canadian for the first 50 years of its existence. I think Canadian content is closer to 60% these days.

[MnMade-4-Life]

A bit misleading if only because the NHL was almost exclusively Canadian for the first 50 years of its existence. I think Canadian content is closer to 60% these days.

that, and hockey is the only true option up there. Imagine the pure athletes that find careers in football, basketball, etc ... being spoon fed hockey hockey hockey since birth.

Throw a pair of skates on Lesnar and watch Chara go cower behind the net. (yes, a reach but point made)

[O-townClown]

My question …. is 3 or 4 percent the magic number?

As in ...Would 3% of the total Bantams in District ? Be able to form a Tier 1 level club?

Would 3% of all the Bantams in Minnesota be able to form 3 high performance clubs?

I'm not sure I follow the leap. 3% of all NHL players in its history are Minnesotan. What does that have to do with where the line is drawn for HPC?

I've spoken with affiliate presidents about this in an attempt to define Tier I. Some see it as 10% of the player pool, others see it as 5%. If Minnesota has a high-performance option targeting 3% of the player pool it will be very competitive. High Performance being more selective than 'watered down' Tier I.

It would seem that the blueprint for 36 HPCs nationally would mean approx 2-3% of the player pool.

[2112]

Something to think about, how many NHL players were developed in the Tier 1 system. I think the stats would be impressive, maybe thats why Minnesota falls behind in developing true NHL talent.

[Quasar]

My question …. is 3 or 4 percent the magic number?

As in ...Would 3% of the total Bantams in District ? Be able to form a Tier 1 level club?

Would 3% of all the Bantams in Minnesota be able to form 3 high performance clubs?

I'm not sure I follow the leap. 3% of all NHL players in its history are Minnesotan. What does that have to do with where the line is drawn for HPC?

I've spoken with affiliate presidents about this in an attempt to define Tier I. Some see it as 10% of the player pool, others see it as 5%. If Minnesota has a high-performance option targeting 3% of the player pool it will be very competitive. High Performance being more selective than 'watered down' Tier I.

It would seem that the blueprint for 36 HPCs nationally would mean approx 2-3% of the player pool.

It means nothing at all . Just food for thought. You know I'm not literal

It's just kinda fun to look at the data. no message of any kind

[O-townClown]

Something to think about, how many NHL players were developed in the Tier 1 system. I think the stats would be impressive, maybe thats why Minnesota falls behind in developing true NHL talent.

No, the last study I saw showed anything but. Tons of Canadians make the NHL without playing Tier I hockey growing up. Also, the Illinois study tracking Tier I players from the end of Squirts through Midgets showed most fall off and are replaced by others that were not playing Tier I in Illinois for first year of PW.

Hopefully someone can find these. They get cited often.

[2112]

If you look at OHL and the USHL drafts, most of the players been drafted played Tier 1 hockey. Especially in the OHL draft, no kids come from high school system. The USHL draft is similar, most come from the Tier 1 system and some come from the High School route.
Maybe some of these kids did not play Tier 1 as peewees, but most play as Midgets and Bantams.

[observer]

2112,

You may have missed the NHL draft stats.

12 Minnesota HS players drafted.

2 players from Michigan drafted.

[2112]

Observer, that is true. Now maybe you should look at how many NHL draft picks played Tier 1 and compare. You will see what i am talking about, the top 4 draft picks played in either the OHL, WHL or the QMJHL.

[greybeard58]

The NHL in their stats uses where players were born,not where they played as an example this years draft,the high school player from Brainerd played his hockey there but by NHL stats was born in Canada. The site is fun to look at you will see some interesting names and they date back to 1917. There are more Americans listed as playing in the earlier years than you think.
Makes for fun talk. Some of the better players also chose not to go to the NHL but found good paying jobs and played for their country.

Side note: Stanley cup trivia, without using google, Which American city won the stanley cup first?

[O-townClown]

Observer, that is true. Now maybe you should look at how many NHL draft picks played Tier 1 and compare. You will see what i am talking about, the top 4 draft picks played in either the OHL, WHL or the QMJHL.

Okay, you are talking Tier I Junior (a/k/a Major Junior) hockey in Canada.

It is hard to follow the argument(s) laid forth in this thread. I thought your comments were about Tier I youth hockey, since many of the other comments are about the shortcomings of Minnesota's community-based model for youth hockey and how it fails the outstanding player from a small program.

Yes, if you want to be drafted by an NHL team it is a good thing to stand out in Major Junior. Just like it is a good thing to stand out in the USHL for Americans. If you aren't going to stand out, it seems that it is better to stand out at Canada's Jr. B level than it is to struggle in the CHL.

[observer]

2112,

You have to divide the Canadian discussion from the US one. Hockey is Canada's National sport. 90% (guessing) of Canadian boy athletes dream to play in the NHL. That's not the case in the US where several of our best athletes choose to play baseball, football, basketball, etc. Also, very little to no hockey played outside of 3-4-5 states just 20 years ago.

All of Canada has outdoor ice widely available in the winter to introduce all citizens to skating and hockey. Very few states in the US have outdoor ice. It's not a popular sport in states without outdoor ice, and never will be widely popular, because they have zero exposure to the opportunity to strap them on and head to the park.

The OHL, WHL and QMJHL are junior leagues, like the USHL, not Tier 1 AAA.

I was amazed at this year's Michigan draft stat because of all the Tier 1 AAA played there, hundreds of families involved with a very heavy commitment, time and money, and 2 players drafted. That surprised me.

[2112]

OTC, maybe i confused you in my responses. I am making the case that the Tier 1 model from peewees to major junior produces some of the best talented hockey players in North America as compared to the association and High School model that Minnesota provides.
Just my thoughts, the Minnesota model doesn`t allow the top hockey players the ability to play against the other top players in Canada and the US. You won`t see Edina playing LIttle Ceasars or the Toronto Nationals, if Minnesota would adopt Tier 1 that could happen.

[JSR]

2112,

You may have missed the NHL draft stats.

12 Minnesota HS players drafted.

2 players from Michigan drafted.

I think these guys are talking about where they played youth hockey up through and including their high school years. Your stat just shows kids drafted directly from high school. An impressive thing to be sure. But, for example, jus take the first round of this years draft. The first 13 picks came from the WHL, OHL, QMJHL or Sweden. A few examples sine I don;t want to research all of them:

The #1 overall pick, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, has been playing in the WHL since he was 16 and before that he played for the Vancouver North West Giants, which is a Vancouver equivalent of a AAA Tier 1 winter team.

#3 overall pick, 18 year old Jonathan Huberdeau, has been skating in the QNJHL since he was 16.

#8 overall ick, Sean Coturier (born in Phoenix, AZ but Candian) was drafted out the QMJHL where he has played since he was 16 and before that he played for the Notre Dame Hounds of the Saskatchewan Midget AAA league (aka Tier 1 hockey down here by any standard).

James Oleksiak was the 14th overall pick and the first player drafted from somewhere other than the above, he was drafted out of Northeastern College in Hockey East, but before that he was a youth hockey product of both the Toronto Young Nationals and Detroit Little Caesars (Tier 1). He also played in the United States Hockey League for the Sioux Falls Stampede and Chicago Steel prior to Northeastern.

The highest drafted (actual) American was Jonathan Miller at #15 he plays for the U18 USNTDP but before that he played for Tier 1 Pittsburgh Hornets.

Another American, Connor Murphy, #20 overall, plays for the USNTDP but before that he played for AAA Tier 1 Columbus Jr. Blue Jackets

#21 overall Stefan Noesen currently plays in the OHL but before that played for Compuware (Tier 1 AAA).

Minnesota's system is awesome, the number of NHL players it contributes for 1 state is defintely phenominal, and personally I would not change MN's model for anything as the fact HS kids get drafted at all speaks volumes. BUT I think this person's point that you were responding to was, with the exception of the Europeans, that it appears that pretty much every single player chosen in the first round plays junior hockey currently but before that played some form of Tier 1 AAA hockey (even the Canadian kids), not association or high school hockey. Atleast that is how I read it.

[2112]

Observer, are you trying to show how smart you are, OHL WHL and QMJHL are all top junior leagues. They are not junior B, so the reference they are Tier 1 junior leagues is appropriate. I understand that the majority of best atheletes in Canada play hockey, that is not a good enough excuse for their dominance in the sport. Minnesota has the same resourses that Ontario has, except Tier 1 hockey. Maybe we as Minnesotans have to change our model with the times, start allowing top hockey players to compete at that level with coaches who can coach at that level.

[JSR]

2112,

You have to divide the Canadian discussion from the US one. Hockey is Canada's National sport. 90% (guessing) of Canadian boy athletes dream to play in the NHL. That's not the case in the US where several of our best athletes choose to play baseball, football, basketball, etc. Also, very little to no hockey played outside of 3-4-5 states just 20 years ago.

All of Canada has outdoor ice widely available in the winter to introduce all citizens to skating and hockey. Very few states in the US have outdoor ice. It's not a popular sport in states without outdoor ice, and never will be widely popular, because they have zero exposure to the opportunity to strap them on and head to the park.

The OHL, WHL and QMJHL are junior leagues, like the USHL, not Tier 1 AAA.

I was amazed at this year's Michigan draft stat because of all the Tier 1 AAA played there, hundreds of families involved with a very heavy commitment, time and money, and 2 players drafted. That surprised me.

There are great programs in Michigan but so many of them are comprised of kids not actually born in MI. Look at Rocco Grimaldi. The kid was born in California but he played for Little Caesars in MI from 2005 - 2009 then making the jump to USNTDP in Ann Arbor after that..... Or Stefan Noesen played for Compuware for two years before moving to the USNTDP but was born and raised in TX until he moved to Compuware. I think Michigan's model is tough because they "basically" have no cap on the numebr of players from out of state who can play on their Tier 1 teams so you have in state kids competing with the entire nation for spots on those teams but if you are from in MI if you don't make those teams I don't think yuo have a viable in state alternative. The high school hockey is ok there but not like MN if that makes sense.

[O-townClown]

JSR, no doubt. But you also have to trace back to see at what age did these kids in question become "Tier I" youth players. Just like Hyattsville DeMatha places a ton of kids on NCAA basketball programs, these Major Junior clubs and Tier I Midget programs have kids that played Tier II youth hockey at younger ages..

I get it. The NHL Draft fishes mainly in the CHL pond. Yet we still have many that get to the NHL via a different route. FWIW, James Van Riemsdyk grew up a Tier II player.

2112, Edina's Bantams played Shattuck and a team from Dallas. As Pee Wees they played the Colorado Thunderbirds. They've seen enough to have an idea how they stack up versus Tier I teams. Oh, and the Edina PW A (97/98 birth years) beat the Fire 99 by a hundred goals or something.

[Quasar]

Observer, are you trying to show how smart you are, OHL WHL and QMJHL are all top junior leagues. They are not junior B, so the reference they are Tier 1 junior leagues is appropriate. I understand that the majority of best atheletes in Canada play hockey, that is not a good enough excuse for their dominance in the sport. Minnesota has the same resourses that Ontario has, except Tier 1 hockey. Maybe we as Minnesotans have to change our model with the times, start allowing top hockey players to compete at that level with coaches who can coach at that level.

If you are interested in the future of Minnesota hockey, you have to take this post seriously

[O-townClown]

If you are interested in the future of Minnesota hockey, you have to take this post seriously

And if you put the blinders on, you can ignore the issues they face in paradise. Warts and all, the community-based, usually with municipal rinks, model does have benefits.

+++

Burke, Yzerman concerned about hockey’s costs
Published On Wed Jun 16 2010

Toronto needs more hockey rinks, says Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke.

“In Toronto, we need places to play,” said Burke, named one of four leaders of this summer’s hockey summit in Toronto that will chart the future of the sport. “It doesn’t matter if you have all the money in the world if you don’t have rinks. We need to build rinks and maintain rinks.”

Burke pointed out the Leafs’ new four-pad practice facility on Kipling Ave. was the first new arena built within the confines of the city in 25 years.

“We’ve stopped building rinks in Toronto and we haven’t maintained the ones we have,” said Burke. “We have to find places for kids to play.”

The city has plans to build another four-pad facility on vacant land near the Don River, although those plans are bogged down in debate.

Burke, Lightning GM Steve Yzerman, Senators captain Daniel Alfredsson and Team Canada’s Hayley Wickenheiser participated in a conference call after being named leaders of the summit by its organizers on Wednesday.

For Burke, affordability is the key to the future of the sport, both in the availability of ice for kids to develop and of equipment for kids to use.

“We have to keep the game available, affordable and to make sure we’re always looking at alternatives,” said Burke. “If we can’t afford to build 365-day-a-year refrigerated ice rinks in Canada, why don’t we build roller rinks where players can play in-line (hockey) in the summertime? We have to focus on alternatives where we can develop skills. . . . In-line hockey is a wonderful development tool. We haven’t used it properly.”

Burke cited the changing demographic of Toronto with its large influx of new Canadians who don’t understand hockey as one challenge, and the expense of the sport as another.

Renting ice time can cost up to $400 an hour in Toronto. Outfitting kids with skates, sticks and the rest of the equipment, if bought new, can go over $1,000.

“How do we get ice time at a subsidized rate? Can you do an equipment recycling program, where kids are able to use equipment other players have outgrown but is still perfectly good in terms of safety?” said Burke.

“The cost to play this sport is really prohibitive,” said Yzerman. “Everyone should be involved in the solution, from the equipment manufacturers on down. You need kids playing the sport to sell equipment. It’s just good business.”

The issue of the NHL expanding to Europe was raised, but the participants sounded as if the downside was too great. European arenas aren’t big enough, travel from North America would be burdensome and the risk of killing Europe’s national leagues — and with it the development of new hockey players — too great to be worthwhile.

“It sounds very sexy to do,” said Alfredsson, a Swede. “It’s very difficult to do and if you do it you have to do it right. There’s no room for error. It would be devastating to a lot of leagues.”

The rival Kontinental Hockey League has expanded beyond its initial Russian borders and the feeling is the NHL might have to expand beyond North America. Burke doesn’t think that’s a good idea.

“What does it do to the Swedish Elite League? If it puts them out of business, why are we even talking about it?” said Burke. “We should be talking about a way to make that league stronger.”

More practice time — three practice sessions to one game — was an idea floated to develop skills, but one that historically parents have resisted, said Burke.

Wickenheiser didn’t stay on the call long, but said getting women’s hockey to the next level, and expanding its talent base, was her priority.

[Quasar]

If you are interested in the future of Minnesota hockey, you have to take this post seriously

And if you put the blinders on, you can ignore the issues they face in paradise. Warts and all, the community-based, usually with municipal rinks, model does have benefits.

+++

Burke, Yzerman concerned about hockey’s costs
Published On Wed Jun 16 2010

Toronto needs more hockey rinks, says Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke.

“In Toronto, we need places to play,” said Burke, named one of four leaders of this summer’s hockey summit in Toronto that will chart the future of the sport. “It doesn’t matter if you have all the money in the world if you don’t have rinks. We need to build rinks and maintain rinks.”

Burke pointed out the Leafs’ new four-pad practice facility on Kipling Ave. was the first new arena built within the confines of the city in 25 years.

“We’ve stopped building rinks in Toronto and we haven’t maintained the ones we have,” said Burke. “We have to find places for kids to play.”

The city has plans to build another four-pad facility on vacant land near the Don River, although those plans are bogged down in debate.

Burke, Lightning GM Steve Yzerman, Senators captain Daniel Alfredsson and Team Canada’s Hayley Wickenheiser participated in a conference call after being named leaders of the summit by its organizers on Wednesday.

For Burke, affordability is the key to the future of the sport, both in the availability of ice for kids to develop and of equipment for kids to use.

“We have to keep the game available, affordable and to make sure we’re always looking at alternatives,” said Burke. “If we can’t afford to build 365-day-a-year refrigerated ice rinks in Canada, why don’t we build roller rinks where players can play in-line (hockey) in the summertime? We have to focus on alternatives where we can develop skills. . . . In-line hockey is a wonderful development tool. We haven’t used it properly.”

Burke cited the changing demographic of Toronto with its large influx of new Canadians who don’t understand hockey as one challenge, and the expense of the sport as another.

Renting ice time can cost up to $400 an hour in Toronto. Outfitting kids with skates, sticks and the rest of the equipment, if bought new, can go over $1,000.

“How do we get ice time at a subsidized rate? Can you do an equipment recycling program, where kids are able to use equipment other players have outgrown but is still perfectly good in terms of safety?” said Burke.

“The cost to play this sport is really prohibitive,” said Yzerman. “Everyone should be involved in the solution, from the equipment manufacturers on down. You need kids playing the sport to sell equipment. It’s just good business.”

The issue of the NHL expanding to Europe was raised, but the participants sounded as if the downside was too great. European arenas aren’t big enough, travel from North America would be burdensome and the risk of killing Europe’s national leagues — and with it the development of new hockey players — too great to be worthwhile.

“It sounds very sexy to do,” said Alfredsson, a Swede. “It’s very difficult to do and if you do it you have to do it right. There’s no room for error. It would be devastating to a lot of leagues.”

The rival Kontinental Hockey League has expanded beyond its initial Russian borders and the feeling is the NHL might have to expand beyond North America. Burke doesn’t think that’s a good idea.

“What does it do to the Swedish Elite League? If it puts them out of business, why are we even talking about it?” said Burke. “We should be talking about a way to make that league stronger.”

More practice time — three practice sessions to one game — was an idea floated to develop skills, but one that historically parents have resisted, said Burke.

Wickenheiser didn’t stay on the call long, but said getting women’s hockey to the next level, and expanding its talent base, was her priority.

Holey Toledo!! 2112 was just making the point that Minnesota Kids could use a little stiffer competition.. I don't think he was advocating moving to Canada..

The trouble with self proclaimed experts is stuff like this. Who Cares??? It's pretty obvious by many of your posts, you don't think anyone has a handle on whats going on in the hockey world except you and your associates whoever they may be.

It is just this kind of smugness that people are rebelling against .

[2112]

OTC, i think you made my point in your earlier response. How does Edina`s Peewees or Bantams playing younger teams really give them a true sense of where they stack up against the top competition?

[O-townClown]

OTC, i think you made my point in your earlier response. How does Edina`s Peewees or Bantams playing younger teams really give them a true sense of where they stack up against the top competition?

I don't think they want to play younger teams. You should see about getting 49 other states to move the cut to July 1st if you want them to line up, because for now that's the date in Minnesota.

Minnesota has a system that works well for Minnesota. The rest of the country has a system that works for it.

I grew up with Jan. 1 as the cut. There doesn't seem to be a push in Minnesota to go back to it. There was more talk about jumping even further back to May 1, but that didn't result in a change.

[Quasar]

NHL Leaders Single season

Rank Player PTS Season
1. Wayne Gretzky* 215 1985-86
2. Wayne Gretzky* 212 1981-82
3. Wayne Gretzky* 208 1984-85
4. Wayne Gretzky* 205 1983-84
5. Mario Lemieux* 199 1988-89
6. Wayne Gretzky* 196 1982-83
7. Wayne Gretzky* 183 1986-87
8. Wayne Gretzky* 168 1988-89
9. Mario Lemieux* 168 1987-88
10. Wayne Gretzky* 164 1980-81
11. Wayne Gretzky* 163 1990-91
12. Mario Lemieux* 161 1995-96
13. Mario Lemieux* 160 1992-93
14. Steve Yzerman* 155 1988-89
15. Phil Esposito* 152 1970-71
16. Bernie Nicholls 150 1988-89
17. Jaromir Jagr 149 1995-96
18. Wayne Gretzky* 149 1987-88
19. Pat LaFontaine* 148 1992-93
20. Mike Bossy* 147 1981-82
21. Phil Esposito* 145 1973-74
22. Wayne Gretzky* 142 1989-90
23. Adam Oates 142 1992-93
24. Mario Lemieux* 141 1985-86
25. Bobby Orr* 139 1970-71