2011 High School National Championships Starts Wed 3/23/11

Post by **Mitch Hawker** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:50 am

This tournament is for the states whose high school hockey is affiliated with USA Hockey, rather than the high school federation (NFHS, MSHSL, etc).

2011 High School National Championships
Bensenville, IL United States - 3/23/2011 - 3/27/2011

http://www.usahockey.com/Tournament/Tou ... ionID=1898

Yes, the Minnesota, Michigan, Mass, NJ, Wisconsin, or NoDak, champs would beat any of these teams.

wolfpack33 · Post by **wolfpack33** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:17 pm

It's unfortunate that they're even allowed to call this winner the High School National Champion...

HockeyMN1 · Post by **HockeyMN1** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:18 pm

Mitch Hawker wrote:This tournament is for the states whose high school hockey is affiliated with USA Hockey, rather than the high school federation (NFHS, MSHSL, etc).

2011 High School National Championships
Bensenville, IL United States - 3/23/2011 - 3/27/2011

http://www.usahockey.com/Tournament/Tou ... ionID=1898

Yes, the Minnesota, Michigan, Mass, NJ, Wisconsin, or NoDak, champs would beat any of these teams.

These high school federations should work out a deal with USA hockey to get the best teams involved. How awesome would it be to see the best of Minnesota match up against (and for the most part destroy) teams from around the country? This isn't a real national championship when the best teams aren't involved.

Air Force 1 · Post by **Air Force 1** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:57 pm

I looked at the field yesterday and noticed the Huron All-Stars from South Dakota are in this tournament and they are not even the best team from that state. Huron was a #3 seed going into their "high school" tournament and upset #2 Brookings in the semi-Finals. They lost the next day to the #1 Oahe (Pierre) Capitals in the Championship. South Dakota high school hockey is not sanctioned by the South Dakota High School Activities Association, it is a South Dakota Amateur hockey programs = Jr. Gold.

Last weekend the Grand Forks Stallions Jr Gold played some of these teams in the Presidents Cup in Rapid City. They lost in the championship but played some of the teams that are going to this tournament.

Sounds like most of this will be good Jr Gold competition. Yes, to call this a national high school championship is wrong.

BarDown#10 · Post by **BarDown#10** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:15 pm

I'd like to see the JGA/B MN state champ teams play in this since they're all high school aged players. after all if you're going to call it a "national" tournament the state with the best state tournament in the nation should at least have one team participating.

SPUDNUT · Post by **SPUDNUT** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:31 pm

Don't really think we would all like to lower ourselves just to be in it ! Also don't think they would like us to be there - sounds like a bunch of wannabes who would not be anywhere near the level of hockey we're used to.

HockeyMN1 · Post by **HockeyMN1** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:23 pm

SPUDNUT wrote:Don't really think we would all like to lower ourselves just to be in it ! Also don't think they would like us to be there - sounds like a bunch of wannabes who would not be anywhere near the level of hockey we're used to.

I don't think they're quite aware of the level of hockey here. USA Hockey for the most part produces very few NHL talents and is more for promoting hockey in non-traditional puck states. Putting MN/MI/MA teams in this would just give them a big reality check.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:27 pm

It's for USA sanctioned "high school" teams, which is different from association or Tier teaams. Minnesota and Wisconsin don't register their high school teams with USA hockey and so would be ineligible, also these games are under USA Hockey rules, not NFHS.

FWIW I think it's great that teams get to play in a tournament like this as it expands hockey. My brother's kids played for the Chicago Mission growing up but left to go play high school because it's a better atmosphere and playing with their classmates was a huge thing to them, it's a step down from AAA to be sure but also about 1/5 the price.

I also look at it this way; it's great we have football here and get to name a champion but in reality our champion wouldn't beat half the teams in places like Texas, Florida, Ohio, or California. It doesn't lessen the accomplishment any though.

wolfpack33 · Post by **wolfpack33** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:30 pm

midcontinent communications televised the sd state tournament. i caught the consolation and championship games and they were awful...i want to say that i couldn't believe what i was seeing, but i could...

HockeyMN1 · Post by **HockeyMN1** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:32 pm

goldy313 wrote:It's for USA sanctioned "high school" teams, which is different from association or Tier teaams. Minnesota and Wisconsin don't register their high school teams with USA hockey and so would be ineligible, also these games are under USA Hockey rules, not NFHS.

FWIW I think it's great that teams get to play in a tournament like this as it expands hockey. My brother's kids played for the Chicago Mission growing up but left to go play high school because it's a better atmosphere and playing with their classmates was a huge thing to them, it's a step down from AAA to be sure but also about 1/5 the price.

I also look at it this way; it's great we have football here and get to name a champion but in reality our champion wouldn't beat half the teams in places like Texas, Florida, Ohio, or California. It doesn't lessen the accomplishment any though.

Well we usually get like one team for football in the national top 25. If you look at the high school hockey national rankings there are maybe three states represented in the top 50. Plus this is a so called "National Championship" which probably doesn't have any of the top 100 high school teams in the country. We don't take all MN football teams and call it a National Championship. If you asked someone who didn't really know hockey from another state whether they would rather win the MN State Championship or the National Championship, they would say National Championship even though we all know that there are 50 Minnesota teams who would bring the "National Champion" to running time.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:48 pm

We get a football team in there because they're 12-0, period.

No offense but I spent 3 years officiating in Texas when I was in the Army, it's night and day compared to even what Cretin and EP put on the field and I did Lake Conference games until they split this season. Those Minnesota teams might put 1 or 2 kids D1, some of the top Texas teams put 10-12 per year. Go to Dallas and see that that one area puts more kids into BCS programs each year than Minnesota will in a decade

You can call anything you want a National Champion, Apple Valley does by winning The Clash but won't wrestle a school from Pennsylvania or Ohio. The ACHA will have its college national championship soon, none of those teams are in the NCAA or would beat any of the top NCAA teams yet they have a national champion, JR A Tier 3 gets a national champion that would be run out of the building by the worst USHL team....It goes on and on. It's just a name on a trophy

wolfpack33 · Post by **wolfpack33** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:12 am

goldy313 wrote: The ACHA will have its college national championship soon, none of those teams are in the NCAA or would beat any of the top NCAA teams yet they have a national champion, JR A Tier 3 gets a national champion that would be run out of the building by the worst USHL team....It goes on and on. It's just a name on a trophy

I disagree with this part of your statement.

Look at these titles and tell me how much different they sound.

"ACHA D-I National Champion" vs "College Hockey National Champion"
"USA Hockey T-III National Champion" vs "National Junior Hockey Champion"
"National HS Hockey Champion" vs "National HS Hockey Champion"

You'll notice that only one of those makes the attempt to sound like the best of the best...maybe they could call it something else? I don't know. I hate the idea that a ____ team from SD could win the "National High School Hockey Championship." I guess better them than a Florida team

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:28 am

I'm sure they'd love to have the Minnesota state champion. That would mean USA Hockey could oversee Minnesota HS hockey.

Not going to happen.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:30 am

You would think the Minnesota Jr Gold teams would be able to enter if they wanted.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:51 am

I agree send our Jr. Gold state champs. That would be great for the kids.

Post by **Mitch Hawker** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:45 am

At least 11 of the 24 teams do appear in the national rankings, although none higher than #71 out of 1280 teams ranked.
http://www.ushsho.com/ushsrank.htm

71 New Trier Green IL 11.75
176 Glenbrook North IL 10.19
275 Southlake Carroll TX 9.34
277 DM Oak Leafs MW 9.32
* St Josephs IN 8.87
414 Marquette MO 8.28
430 Plano West TX 8.14
527 Northeast OHC 7.35
564 Omaha MW 7.16
643 Huron SD 6.63
909 Monroe WIw 4.86

Ohio, NY, and Wisconsin sent "Club" teams (equivalent to Jr Gold) even though their high school federations do also sponsor high school hockey.

This tournament will make it possible to add more states/teams to the national rankings.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:56 am

goldy313 wrote:We get a football team in there because they're 12-0, period.

No offense but I spent 3 years officiating in Texas when I was in the Army, it's night and day compared to even what Cretin and EP put on the field and I did Lake Conference games until they split this season. Those Minnesota teams might put 1 or 2 kids D1, some of the top Texas teams put 10-12 per year. Go to Dallas and see that that one area puts more kids into BCS programs each year than Minnesota will in a decade

Probably basketball too. Johnson, who lost to New Prague yesterday, was at one point in the top 25, ahead of Hopkins.

What I often wonder, though, about kids going D1 in sports from MN, is how much they are looked at. There are less than a handful of D1 schools nearby. MN routinely has good athletes go to MIAC schools, WIAC schools and other D3 (sometimes D2) schools who either compete very will for conference titles or compete with D1 programs in baseball, or whose times/heights would compete with those at the D1 level.

The top MN teams placed in some good districts in TX would be lucky to win a couple games. But, like you said, the climate is night and day.

I look at this two ways:
1. There are national tournaments in many sports all around the country. In all of them (except this) the best teams/individuals are invited. It doesn't matter where you play or what organization you belong to. If you're considered one of the top x teams, you go, period. Maybe have teams qualify regionally, like our state tournament does, but don't keep out the best teams.
2. Every year there is a State High School hockey tournament in MN and the best team in MN does not win it, they aren't even invited. Why? The tournament is put on by the MSHSL and that team is not part of the MSHSL. Just one loose example.
Along with that, in two of our sports organizations, the MLB and NFL, we crown the winner the "world champions" despite only playing teams from this country.

I can see both sides.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:27 am

*The NFHS and USA Hockey are 2 different entities, the NFHS does not have a "National Champion" in any sport. The MSHSL runs all thier sports under NFHS rules and guidelines, playing a non NFHS requires a waiver, I believe, this is why there are very few games between the two entities. When Mason City played under the NFHS they played many Minnesota teams every year, now they're a USA Hockey team and don't and haven't in years aside from a tournament last year.

*In USA Hockey "High School" and Junior Gold are different, the high school division has bantam and junior aged players in 1 group, boundries are different than in association.

The trophy, I imagine, will say USA Hockey National High School Champion, or something of the sort. Minnesota High school teams are not in USA Hockey.

Puckguy19 · Post by **Puckguy19** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:27 am

Who starts a championship game at 9:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning ~ I mean "c'mon man!"

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:28 am

Puckguy19 wrote:Who starts a championship game at 9:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning ~ I mean "c'mon man!"

Junior A Tier 3 plays theirs on a Tuesday at noon.

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2011 High School National Championships Starts Wed 3/23/11

2011 High School National Championships Starts Wed 3/23/11

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