Squirt A to Bantam A changes in team.

[GoldenBear]

A lot of conversation on these posts about how development happens at different times; if you don't make a squirt A team, don't worry you still can make Bantam A team, play varsity, play college etc. I agree with this 200% and usually think the turnover is significant from Squirt A's to Bantam A's. I would be interested in an analysis from some of the posters from Edina, Maple Grove, Elk River or any association.

An association I'm familiar with Wayzata.

Turnover from Squirt A to Current Bantam A: 5 kids.

Of the five kids; on the Bantam A that weren't on the Squirt A team with this age group 4 moved into Wayzata association after Squirts...therefore only ONE kid played Squirt B at Wayzata and made the Bantam A team for this age group.

Also, two kids that would have made Bantam A team (they made team last year) this year played Squirt A's with this group but moved on to varsity for private schools.

So there is a possibility that no Squirt B players 4 years ago that played for Wayzata would have made this year's bantam A team.

This really shocks me. Don't get me wrong, the current Bantam A's aren't guaranteed to earn a varsity letter and there will be more turnover but I would think there would be more turnover from Squirts to Bantams than Bantams to Varsity.

Interested in other associations over this time frame. GBear

[old goalie85]

My oldest is a Jr. this year at F.L. When he was a 2nd year bantam five kids were the same from the squirt A picture. Many reasons, some kids left assc. some moved down to B. Some quit. From that bantam team all but one or two play on the Varsity now.[two years later]

[kopernicus]

From a long standing D6 association

2007-2008 squirt rosters versus 2010-2011 bantam rosters

of seventeen 07-08 squirt a skaters;

bantam rosters 2010-11

out: three
C: one
b2: three
b1: three
A: six

of sixteen 07-08 squirt b skaters;

bantam rosters 2010-11

out: three
C: one
b2: three
b1: seven
A: two

none of the original squirt team skaters are in the HS system yet.

our bantam program traditionally receives many skaters waiving into our program from neighboring communities at the bantam level to prepare for a HS career. This has spread out the home grown talent pool a bit.

[JSR]

Been watchign these threads for a while. Been observing and talkign with coaches and from what I gather it appears that kids who are on the Squirt B team as secodn year squirts and make the leap to being good Bantam A team players and then versity palyers are the exception not the rule. The majority of kids who make up Bantam A and varsity teams seem to have played on the Squirt A team. SO basically it's possible to make the leap but your odds are not as high as those already on the A team. It seems liek the odds you quit playing hockey are actually higher than makign the jump. That is not to say you shouldn't try or should stop playing, the only real reason to play is because you enjoy it. In speaking with coaches they can actually predict the late bloomers with a decent amount of accuracy too. They look at the reasons "why" they are on the B team. If the kid is a good athlete in other sports, what is his frame like, do his genetics suggest he will grow and get stronger and just plateau etc... there is alot to it to say the least. But if the kid is generaly not a great athlete and does not show a passion or desire to get better chances are he never will, and that's ok but some parents have a hard time believing that or seeing it or whatever.

[B-Ville Hockey Guy]

Burnsville bantam A's
since squirts

3 kids moved out (One goalie) One playing in Prior lake one playing in Vermont and goalie in Minnetonka( I think)
1 kid quit (Base ball and snow boarder now)
1 kid hurt before tryouts (Playing b1 Bantams)

Who took those spots
One move in.
3 2nd year squirt B's
and still looking for a goalie to replace the one that moved.

Interesting study. I would like to see more data.

[observer]

Some observations.

In large associations it is generally more difficult to move up but in smaller ones each year's teams have players from 3-4 teams coming together to make a new one.

Squirts can be carried by raw athletic ability but that starts to change if they're not investing time in the off season. At a PeeWee A tryout it's very clear who was working on their game in the offseason and who was not. Now, which is different than just 6-7 years ago, almost all PeeWee A and Bantam A players, in the metro, are on off season AAA teams.

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison depending on where you live.

[Bronc]

Additional Thoughts:

The metro has almost turned their winter season into the summer. What I mean by that is kids jumping from association to association and not because mom and dad moved.

With that movement and desire to be on different teams for a variety of reasons (ie; closer to high school, when you left you didn't find greener pastures, etc) teams are going to look different.

In the outlying areas there tends to be more stability, but with pressures to play sports year round (ie; someone mentioned you go to tryouts and a football player won't look as sharp as a kid just coming out of AAA or a MASH League, etc), but within a very short period of time if they have the athleticism and training will quickly catch up if not pass those of less athletism, but well trained.

With tryouts beginning earlier each year (heck a hockey coach upset lost kids to the State Football Championship) and season overlapping especially in 8th and 9th grade more bantams will opt out or not make it purely out of the above mentioned areas not because they don't have the talent.

[old goalie85]

I agree my 94's group played three sports.[still do] My pee-wee A most of the kids still play Baseball and play football, but they skate during the summer as well. Forest Lake is smaller assc. I'm sure different than Wya,Edina,Wood,Wbl,Still and so on.

[spin-o-rama]

Edina
Current Bantam A team
4 have been always been first year B, second year A players
1 was Squirt B, B, PW B1, A
5 have always been A players (1 spent time with the Fire)
3 are new (didn't play PW at Edina)
1 was squirt B, B, PW B1, B1, Ba B2
1 was sq B, B, PW B1, A
1 was squirt B, A, PW A, A
1 was squirt C, A, PW B1, A, Ba B2

[old goalie85]

Edina has about the same ratio as Fl.

[Garth]

From a long standing D6 association

2007-2008 squirt rosters versus 2010-2011 bantam rosters

of seventeen 07-08 squirt a skaters;

bantam rosters 2010-11

out: three
C: one
b2: three
b1: three
A: six

of sixteen 07-08 squirt b skaters;

bantam rosters 2010-11

out: three
C: one
b2: three
b1: seven
A: two

none of the original squirt team skaters are in the HS system yet.

our bantam program traditionally receives many skaters waiving into our program from neighboring communities at the bantam level to prepare for a HS career. This has spread out the home grown talent pool a bit.

You really need to compare to four years later, not three.

[Tuuk2score]

Edina has 7 kids on the Bantam A team that played 5-6 years A hockey. a few 5 yrs as being 1st year Bantams.............

[InigoMontoya]

Some observations.

In large associations it is generally more difficult to move up but in smaller ones each year's teams have players from 3-4 teams coming together to make a new one.

Squirts can be carried by raw athletic ability but that starts to change if they're not investing time in the off season. At a PeeWee A tryout it's very clear who was working on their game in the offseason and who was not. Now, which is different than just 6-7 years ago, almost all PeeWee A and Bantam A players, in the metro, are on off season AAA teams.

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison depending on where you live.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Many associations have limited resources: making the squirt A team goes with better coaching for the 4+ month hockey season. Out in the stix, where there is little opportunity to "catch up" playing summer hockey, that gap only widens through peewees and bantams.

Parents and kids aren't dumb (well, some of them aren't): they see a bantam A team made up largely of the kids that were squirt As. That leads to parents accessing additional resources for their mites to help them make the squirt A team. In the metro, it is those squirt A kids that are filling out the better summer programs, snowballing into peewee hockey with the gap even wider.

This is certainly not new to parenting. Parents, that can afford to do so, have their kids on waiting lists for the best preschools before they're even born. Can a smart public school kid make it into Harvard Law? Sure. But if that path were as successful, the other path wouldn't be so worn.

[Toomuchtoosoon]

Taking any one group in any one association and trying to extrapolate is difficult. I know of a top association who had about a 1/3 turnover in PW As from SQ As. I think one came from another association, but the others were SQ B1s with a couple being PW B2s I think. Told that a new set of eyes saw potentials that others didn't.

It also could be a manifest of the better players at an early age getting better coaching and more ice time, which accumulates over the years to help build a better player. Playing SQ A lends itself to playing on better AAA teams than the SQ B player, however, that gap can be made up if the individual kid has it within themself to overcome the deck stacked against them.

It is always possible if the DNA kicks in at the right time, with the desire an passion to get better regardless of where they have been rated in the past. One must realize that the DNA may never kick in so don't force it as a parent.

[defense]

Been watchign these threads for a while. Been observing and talkign with coaches and from what I gather it appears that kids who are on the Squirt B team as secodn year squirts and make the leap to being good Bantam A team players and then versity palyers are the exception not the rule. The majority of kids who make up Bantam A and varsity teams seem to have played on the Squirt A team. SO basically it's possible to make the leap but your odds are not as high as those already on the A team. It seems liek the odds you quit playing hockey are actually higher than makign the jump. That is not to say you shouldn't try or should stop playing, the only real reason to play is because you enjoy it. In speaking with coaches they can actually predict the late bloomers with a decent amount of accuracy too. They look at the reasons "why" they are on the B team. If the kid is a good athlete in other sports, what is his frame like, do his genetics suggest he will grow and get stronger and just plateau etc... there is alot to it to say the least. But if the kid is generaly not a great athlete and does not show a passion or desire to get better chances are he never will, and that's ok but some parents have a hard time believing that or seeing it or whatever.

Sorry,
In my opinion, there is very little if anything that can be predicted about a squirt team when they become 8th and 9th graders. My opinion of course. In youth hockey winning does mean something. I am not one to sugar coat it. If winning isn't important, why do they give out trophies???? What the heck is first place for??? No, winning does hold some level of importance. But in youth hockey player development should hold just as much weight...and there is no way to know how a given player will develope.
This example is not completely apples and apples nor is it bullet proof but:
When I was a bantam A, Warroad and Roseau played the "pigtail" game as seeds #8 AND #9 in VFW district 9. When I was a senior in high school the Warroad High School Warriors were undefeated state champs. Ya, TJ likely wasn't there as bantam A, but you telling me he alone made this team undefeated?? I don't think so...somehow those players developed into a helluva team.

[InigoMontoya]

Maybe it was all the Bantam B players that developed that heck out of it and were first line varsity that year?

[MrBoDangles]

Edina
Current Bantam A team
4 have been always been first year B, second year A players
1 was Squirt B, B, PW B1, A
5 have always been A players (1 spent time with the Fire)
3 are new (didn't play PW at Edina)
1 was squirt B, B, PW B1, B1, Ba B2
1 was sq B, B, PW B1, A
1 was squirt B, A, PW A, A
1 was squirt C, A, PW B1, A, Ba B2

Three new players came in as Bantams.....

The question is how many more came in as PW'S, Squirts, and older Mites?

Homegrown....? or is it gravity?

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Edina
Current Bantam A team
4 have been always been first year B, second year A players
1 was Squirt B, B, PW B1, A
5 have always been A players (1 spent time with the Fire)
3 are new (didn't play PW at Edina)
1 was squirt B, B, PW B1, B1, Ba B2
1 was sq B, B, PW B1, A
1 was squirt B, A, PW A, A
1 was squirt C, A, PW B1, A, Ba B2

Three new players came in as Bantams.....

The question is how many more came in as PW'S, Squirts, and older Mites?

Homegrown....? or is it gravity?

Oh my...I see a silhouette of a man in my backyard carrying a shovel...I better call the local authorities...never mind...it's just silly Bo trying to dig up some bones...I love hockey.

[InigoMontoya]

Scaramouch, scaramouch can you do the fandango?

I guess I wasn't seeing any bones. I think my takeaway from Bo is that MN Hockey already has a club system - but only for those that have the wherewithal to move to, or send their kids to school at, the geographic location of the club.

[MrBoDangles]

Scaramouch, scaramouch can you do the fandango?

I guess I wasn't seeing any bones. I think my takeaway from Bo is that MN Hockey already has a club system - but only for those that have the wherewithal to move to, or send their kids to school at, the geographic location of the club.

Dead on!

[Toomuchtoosoon]

Looks like about a 50% turnover for the Wayzata Bantam A team. As squirts, they took second to that "legendary" (LOL) Edina team in Fargo.

[B-Ville Hockey Guy]

Great Post. Burnsville Last year bantam A team only two turned over from When they were Squirt A's One quit and one moved to Wayzata.

This year although the final picks are tonight the there will be more turnover. From the Squirt team: Two went to Private schools One moved to Lakeville, Two have quit, and one Moved up to Highschool (Goalie)

[ahastars03]

It will make a difference in the size of program. Wayzata has more kids fighting for a spot, plus they typically get more move in kids then a smaller program. Still a good topic and hope that the Wayzata team has some success this year.

[Toomuchtoosoon]

From someone who knows about Wayzata (can't confirm):
17 kids:
2 move ins
2 move outs
6 squirt B1
9 squirt A

Also at least 3 kidsout of that group have played at the B2 level at one time. With 3 or 4 B1 teams at every level, those kids did not even make the top 60-75 as a first year.

[D6Rocks]

Burnsville 2009 Bantam A team
15 Skaters
12 were from the Squirt A team
3 were from a Squirt B Team.

Both Goalies were from a Squirt B team.

6 of them lettered on Varsity in 2011.
I will not even try to guess how many of them will be on it this year.
(well I have already, but I am not posting it here.)