Blowouts classless?

[HShockeywatcher]

A couple of these threads start every year discussing specific games, so I thought I'd start a thread to not talk about specific games, or put specific people down (as that's not allowed here) but to instead get general opinions.
I always find it amusing to read the first 15 posts of people calling out the winning coaches in these games, then people start to give first person testimonials of being on the losing end and never have I read about how good it feels to have a better team play keep away, or anything of the sort, they always say "play on."

I can't speak from personal experience with respect to hockey, but I know it is quite demoralizing for basketball players on the losing end to have the starters getting beat badly by 2nd and 3rd string players with a pass rule, football players have no answer for a team that keeps running the ball up the middle with their back up tailback or to be in running time in the second half of either sport.
Sure, there are things the opposing team can work on, but the end result of anything you are working on should be to score. If you are a first liner on a bad team, would you prefer to get beat soundly by a team's 3rd and 4th liners and not score on their back up goalie, or beat a little bit worse by their starters and not score on their starter? Most, in a general sports sense, would choose the latter.

I read the following article off yahoo yesterday:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog ... ool-290350
Question from a non-hockey player; is this an idea for coaches to try when playing a team much better in hockey?
I know when teams are down a man on PK and their main goal is to keep the puck out of their net (and not worry about scoring) they can do that well. If you are up against a team much better, could you try to keep them from scoring first, say work PK-plus one, and scoring second? Could maybe keep a game that would be 15-0 to less than 5-0 and maybe prepare your players better.

[youngblood08]

Most of these were the first games of the season. Some teams will get over confident and this will blowup in thier faces. On the other hand it might give the teams on the other side of the blowout a reason to step up thier game. Nice to see one player saying they weren't quitting.

Maybe it's time for a three levels of High School hockey. AAA, AA and A classes. Just a thought.

[DubCHAGuy]

It's always going to happen in HS sports. IMO, if it's a non-conference game, I always wonder the coaches reasoning for scheduling that opponent. In conference games there's not much you can do. A coach has to get his team to come out 100% in the 1st period. In the 2nd, if it's already 7 or 8 to zip he can get creative and let forwards play defense, and vice versa, or give the 3rd & 4th line more shifts than the 1st and 2nd, but he shouldn't have to tell his team to stop playing hard. In the 3rd period, once the score is 11 or 12 to zero it's just a matter of running the clock out. Play keep away, fire some wrist shots from the blue line (if they go in they go in), and make slow line changes every whistle to make use of the running time rule. Most games that go beyond a 13-14 goal spread, the team is probably running it up, and you start to question their class.

[brandy38]

Maybe it's time for a three levels of High School hockey. AAA, AA and A classes. Just a thought.

Then you'll have AAA teams playing A teams. It won't prevent blowouts IMO.

[goldy313]

In non conference games sometimes outstate teams just have to take who they can get andgetting any metro area to come is tough so if you can get a home and home take it. Some of the 3A teams struggle to get 20 games a year, LaCrescent needs to play most of their games against Wisconsin teams, Rochester needs a field of nearly half out of state teams to even have a holiday tournament, scheduling problems are common place throughout southern Minnesota.

Also, sometimes you end up with a home and home that seems like a good thing but turns out badly, someone posted Century getting whacked by WBL 11-0, well last year it was a 4-3 game, last year East lost at Holy Family 5-3. There are just two examples of things turning from competitive to ugly very quickly. It's tough to anticipate that and probably worse to bail out on a commitment already made to have a game at the last moment.

I'd like to see a system employed where running time can occur earlier, maybe at a 10 goal margin instead of waiting for the 3rd period. In football running time starts in the 4th quater but can start earlier if agreed to by both coaches, I like that but in hockey with limited rosters would like to see that decision made by the losing coach, especially when the losing team is already short of players.

[RangeHockeyFan1817]

Having talked to players on both ends of this situation at one time or another, it's pretty unanimous that playing keep away is far more insulting than continuing to play. Keep away is almost taunting the loosing team. That being said of course there are things they can do to cut down the scoring, no doubt, and they should. But if they have their 3rd and 4th lines out and they're still scoring then its just part of the game. How many chances do 3rd and 4th liners get to score goals? Like people have stated, the teams know going into it how its going to be a lot of the time, and not just the winning coach. I firmly believe it's not the better team's job to "play down" to their opponents level.

[tweisguy]

I definately don`t see anything wrong with it. If you have a problem with it go out there and do something about it. If you let up you`ll just start bad habits and inflict injury upon yourself. I`ve experienced being blown out twice in varsity hockey games and yeah it`s a bitch but you just have to grind through it.

[Rookie19]

I definately don`t see anything wrong with it. If you have a problem with it go out there and do something about it. If you let up you`ll just start bad habits and inflict injury upon yourself. I`ve experienced being blown out twice in varsity hockey games and yeah it`s a bitch but you just have to grind through it.

So you never call off the dogs . 30-0 would be OK?

[Master Recruiter]

as a head coach of a far inferior team to others, you have to know before you schedule games in the summer if you are going to be a a victim of a 12+ goal loss, and not schedule that game.

If its a conference game, then there is nothing you can do about it.

as far as Im concerned. Its insulting if a team up by 10-15 goals starts playing keepaway from the other team, or just dumps the puck in everytime.

its insulting to the game of hockey. Just play it out. its only a 45 min game anyways

[DubCHAGuy]

as a head coach of a far inferior team to others, you have to know before you schedule games in the summer if you are going to be a a victim of a 12+ goal loss, and not schedule that game.

If its a conference game, then there is nothing you can do about it.

as far as Im concerned. Its insulting if a team up by 10-15 goals starts playing keepaway from the other team, or just dumps the puck in everytime.

its insulting to the game of hockey. Just play it out. its only a 45 min game anyways

51 minutes. And dump & chase or keepaway is much classier and less embarrassing than running it up. Hill-Murray and Holy Angels could put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times per year if they wanted to keep their foot on the gas every night. Thankfully, they usually don't.

[Master Recruiter]

as a head coach of a far inferior team to others, you have to know before you schedule games in the summer if you are going to be a a victim of a 12+ goal loss, and not schedule that game.

If its a conference game, then there is nothing you can do about it.

as far as Im concerned. Its insulting if a team up by 10-15 goals starts playing keepaway from the other team, or just dumps the puck in everytime.

its insulting to the game of hockey. Just play it out. its only a 45 min game anyways

51 minutes. And dump & chase or keepaway is much classier and less embarrassing than running it up. Hill-Murray and Holy Angels could put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times per year if they wanted to keep their foot on the gas every night. Thankfully, they usually don't.

thats my point, if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents. Go independent like Duluth East or something. AHA playing in the Missota with the talent they recruit is completely idiotic

[GopherPuck15]

as a head coach of a far inferior team to others, you have to know before you schedule games in the summer if you are going to be a a victim of a 12+ goal loss, and not schedule that game.

If its a conference game, then there is nothing you can do about it.

as far as Im concerned. Its insulting if a team up by 10-15 goals starts playing keepaway from the other team, or just dumps the puck in everytime.

its insulting to the game of hockey. Just play it out. its only a 45 min game anyways

As stated earlier, the game between these two last year was a 5-3 game. East had to get sucked into a two year deal, and this game was probably very beneficial to them last season, with a team that was loaded with seniors and looking to make their season memorable.

I do agree laying off is a tough thing to do. What if holy family's next game was against STA? Can they take two periods off and then expect the same level of intensity as period one of the previous game? It's tough for high school kids to turn it on and off like that. Laying off can often result in bad habits, etc, thus coaches have a tough time slowing their kids down.

[HShockeywatcher]

The reason for my making this thread was to discuss games like this in general, not specific games or calling people out. Nor was it to start another hate on Holy Angels for quite good in one sport in their conference.

This isn't little league sports where everyone gets a trophy; this is MN high school hockey. It could be argued that changing your game in anyway to the lower caliber team is not classy. There are coaches on these benches; why is it not the responsibility of the coach of the lesser team to change things up to try to stop the opposing team?

[The Best in the Bizz3]

as a head coach of a far inferior team to others, you have to know before you schedule games in the summer if you are going to be a a victim of a 12+ goal loss, and not schedule that game.

If its a conference game, then there is nothing you can do about it.

as far as Im concerned. Its insulting if a team up by 10-15 goals starts playing keepaway from the other team, or just dumps the puck in everytime.

its insulting to the game of hockey. Just play it out. its only a 45 min game anyways

51 minutes. And dump & chase or keepaway is much classier and less embarrassing than running it up. Hill-Murray and Holy Angels could put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times per year if they wanted to keep their foot on the gas every night. Thankfully, they usually don't.

thats my point, if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents. Go independent like Duluth East or something. AHA playing in the Missota with the talent they recruit is completely idiotic

A high school hockey team needs to first get approval from their AD, along with every approval of all other AD;s in the conference plus the head of the Missota Conference. Apparently either an AD or The Missota Conference doesnt approve of this. By the looks of AHAs non conference schedule , they look they are willing to play the best, even if htey drop more than usual this year

[HShockeywatcher]

The Missota has one school that, in most of its matchups, can run the score up, the CSC two, South Suburban two or three, etc, etc. They are all over the state, and generally they are only that way in one or a couple sports. They exist and will continue to exist. While some would argue that making different conferences for hockey (like the NCAA has done) would be a good idea, that is not life right now.

Living with the assumption these games will continue to happen for years, since they will (especially to those who say things like, "if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents"), what do you suggest these team do during these games?

I have a huge issue with this attitude as these teams have just as many games as others and telling the better players to sit is basically taking time away from them because they are good. As long as the team mixes up the lines, gives players experience in different positions and tries new things, I say they can score at will.

[BodyShots]

The Missota has one school that, in most of its matchups, can run the score up, the CSC two, South Suburban two or three, etc, etc. They are all over the state, and generally they are only that way in one or a couple sports. They exist and will continue to exist. While some would argue that making different conferences for hockey (like the NCAA has done) would be a good idea, that is not life right now.

Living with the assumption these games will continue to happen for years, since they will (especially to those who say things like, "if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents"), what do you suggest these team do during these games?

I have a huge issue with this attitude as these teams have just as many games as others and telling the better players to sit is basically taking time away from them because they are good. As long as the team mixes up the lines, gives players experience in different positions and tries new things, I say they can score at will.

Do you really think teams play kids evenly throughout the year? Wake up and smell the coffee! During close games, the better kids will play more, and during blowouts, the 3rd and 4th line should play more. End of story.....

[HShockeywatcher]

The Missota has one school that, in most of its matchups, can run the score up, the CSC two, South Suburban two or three, etc, etc. They are all over the state, and generally they are only that way in one or a couple sports. They exist and will continue to exist. While some would argue that making different conferences for hockey (like the NCAA has done) would be a good idea, that is not life right now.

Living with the assumption these games will continue to happen for years, since they will (especially to those who say things like, "if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents"), what do you suggest these team do during these games?

I have a huge issue with this attitude as these teams have just as many games as others and telling the better players to sit is basically taking time away from them because they are good. As long as the team mixes up the lines, gives players experience in different positions and tries new things, I say they can score at will.

Do you really think teams play kids evenly throughout the year? Wake up and smell the coffee! During close games, the better kids will play more, and during blowouts, the 3rd and 4th line should play more. End of story.....

Why? What actual reason is there?

Remember, one game is 4% of the season. And most teams with these games, have more than one. A good player has to give up playing a lot in 20% of their season for being good?

So if you are a 1st liner for a team at the top of the Lake Conference you get to play "more" 23-25 but a 1st liner for a team atop the Classic Suburban Conference gets 16-20? A good player has to give up playing time simply for being good?

Imagine a WCHA (say UMD this year) team starting their 4th line against Anchorage; is that classy?

[DubCHAGuy]

The Missota has one school that, in most of its matchups, can run the score up, the CSC two, South Suburban two or three, etc, etc. They are all over the state, and generally they are only that way in one or a couple sports. They exist and will continue to exist. While some would argue that making different conferences for hockey (like the NCAA has done) would be a good idea, that is not life right now.

Living with the assumption these games will continue to happen for years, since they will (especially to those who say things like, "if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents"), what do you suggest these team do during these games?

I have a huge issue with this attitude as these teams have just as many games as others and telling the better players to sit is basically taking time away from them because they are good. As long as the team mixes up the lines, gives players experience in different positions and tries new things, I say they can score at will.

Do you really think teams play kids evenly throughout the year? Wake up and smell the coffee! During close games, the better kids will play more, and during blowouts, the 3rd and 4th line should play more. End of story.....

Why? What actual reason is there?

Remember, one game is 4% of the season. And most teams with these games, have more than one. A good player has to give up playing a lot in 20% of their season for being good?

So if you are a 1st liner for a team at the top of the Lake Conference you get to play "more" 23-25 but a 1st liner for a team atop the Classic Suburban Conference gets 16-20? A good player has to give up playing time simply for being good?

Imagine a WCHA (say UMD this year) team starting their 4th line against Anchorage; is that classy?

Anchorage is the doormat, yet has lost 2 games by more than a goal this year. The competitive balance in college hockey is 1,000 times more balanced than in HS Hockey. Those are all scholarship athletes. A blowout in college is 5 or 6 goals. We are talking about HS games where one team might get 5 or 6 shots.

Besides, most good players on these teams would rather see their buds on the 4th line have some success rather than score their 6th point of a blowout.

[Potatohead9]

Lets look at the playoffs, without getting into specifics about games or sections. Has a #1 seed lost to a #8 or lower seed? I dont think so, yet every year top teams in the state have to play a team from their section that they wouldn't dream to schedule during the season. Not sure if this would work for all sections but why not give the top seeded team or top two a buy until the section semi-finals. This is just a thought tell me what you think.....

[HShockeywatcher]

Lets look at the playoffs, without getting into specifics about games or sections. Has a #1 seed lost to a #8 or lower seed? I dont think so, yet every year top teams in the state have to play a team from their section that they wouldn't dream to schedule during the season. Not sure if this would work for all sections but why not give the top seeded team or top two a buy until the section semi-finals. This is just a thought tell me what you think.....

The issue is that in MN every team makes the playoffs. I would be curious to know the breakdown around the country of states where you have to make it to the playoffs vs everyone makes it.

If things were to change, the number of classes would change drastically in all sports, which I doubt many would be okay with. The MSHSL could fix this "issue" many different ways (we have pointless blowouts in every sport every year), but it seems the main point is to give more students the opportunity to play more.

In former threads many have said it's okay because it's the playoffs. No one would get upset if someone won state running up the score; heck it happened a few years ago. So it's classless to beat a bad to by a lot, but not a team thought to be similar in ability? Odd.

[InigoMontoya]

Why? What actual reason is there?

That is how dynasties are made. Perennial football powerhouses play 2nd and 3rd string guys in the second half of many of their games. These juniors, sophomores, and freshmen get game experience against teams they'll play in the next 2-3 years. The next year they know they will beat a team before the game starts, because they were on the field beating the starters from last year, beating last year's bench warmers will be no problem.

Back in the 70s there was a time when the joke was you'll play a closer football game against Nebraska if you play them in Lincoln, where you could be going against the 4th or 5th kid on the depth chart. They were only allowed to travel with a limited number of kids, so playing them in your own stadium meant the worst kid they could put out there was a third stringer.

[daddycutthecord]

As long as the team mixes up the lines, gives players experience in different positions and tries new things, I say they can score at will.

HS-totally agree let them score, but don't be sending out your #1 pp, and #1 pk unit when a game is out of reach.

[shotpassskate]

51 minutes. And dump & chase or keepaway is much classier and less embarrassing than running it up. Hill-Murray and Holy Angels could put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times per year if they wanted to keep their foot on the gas every night. Thankfully, they usually don't.

thats my point, if a team can put up 20 goals 7 or 8 times year that's a complete joke and they need to find some different opponents. Go independent like Duluth East or something. AHA playing in the Missota with the talent they recruit is completely idiotic

A high school hockey team needs to first get approval from their AD, along with every approval of all other AD;s in the conference plus the head of the Missota Conference. Apparently either an AD or The Missota Conference doesnt approve of this. By the looks of AHAs non conference schedule , they look they are willing to play the best, even if htey drop more than usual this year

I would bet that AHA has asked to play each school only once and where told no. MSHL would not let them play an independent schedule being in the cities. What conference would they fit into with their other sports?

Not sure but is Duluth East going into a new conference starting 2011?

[johnnyquest]

virginia 21 silver bay 0

hshockeywatcher, I would love to speak my mind, but I would get banned.

[chubbs]

virginia 22 silver bay 0. Who cares? All you babies need to quit complaining