NO "C" teams in girls???

[Game?]

I am sure the answer is out there...but I happened to be watching a girls 12U B game and could not believe the disparity between some players. It looked like some bubble "A" kids playing on "B" team and then some players that were way below the "average" skaters. I then looked at the team site..and saw they had one A team and Three B teams... no "C"? I then looked at a bunch of other sites and the same thing..one A two B..etc.
Why would it be different for girls....than it is for boys. I thought numbers might have something to do with it, but there are a number of smaller associations that skate smaller numbers..etc.
Thoughts? Answers? It seems to me that it would be hard to focus on the disparate needs of player development with such a spread as well as increasing the frustration level of the players.
Thanks!

[blondegirlsdad]

There clearly should be 3 levels. Maybe don't call it a C level, maybe just B1 and B2 or A1 and A2, whatever people want to call it.

But it would clearly be a better option for players 15-30 in larger associations, and would allow the top B teams to play in more competetive environments, and maybe allow some of the weaker A teams to play competetive games. The Top A teams don't have to worry about playing 10-0 blowouts, and maybe some of the kids with less experience get to carry the puck a little bit.

The problem is the numbers, but it could be solved if there were more co-ops out there. Having our daughter sitting squarely on the bubble, it is a feast or famine situation.

[mnhcp]

I am sure the answer is out there...but I happened to be watching a girls 12U B game and could not believe the disparity between some players. It looked like some bubble "A" kids playing on "B" team and then some players that were way below the "average" skaters. I then looked at the team site..and saw they had one A team and Three B teams... no "C"? I then looked at a bunch of other sites and the same thing..one A two B..etc.
Why would it be different for girls....than it is for boys. I thought numbers might have something to do with it, but there are a number of smaller associations that skate smaller numbers..etc.
Thoughts? Answers? It seems to me that it would be hard to focus on the disparate needs of player development with such a spread as well as increasing the frustration level of the players.
Thanks!

I have a feeling you know the answer already and thus posing the question for convesation.

If not, it's the numbers.

It's clearly the norm that most girls development suffers because of it. I then find it funny that people complain when a girl then wants to play youth hockey.

So if a girl is serious about her hockey, moving is often the only solution.

Trust me, many talented girls quit because of this then chalk it up to disinterest.

[Game?]

No..I truly did not know the answer... I even asked one of the parents of the team about such and they thought it was a Title IX issue! I looked on MNHOCKEY but could not find anything...hence the posting.

My son plays against associations that do not field A level teams at Squirts...just one B and one C. Other teams only field one of each...with around 40 kids at a level..that is why the number thing did not seem to me to make sense. When I looked, our association is joined with two others.. and they have one A and two B teams at the U12 level...so to me I guess i assumed that most everyone would merge up in order to get enough numbers to play..or to play at the level that most fits its abilties if short teams.

[D10RoXyourSoX]

There are no C teams because the same reason why the State Tournaments in all sports (specifically Hockey) have a championship opportunity for all school sizes. Thats why we have a 9 man football championship, so we dont leave anyone out. That is why we no longer have one high school hockey champion. We want to make sure everyone gets a chance. Nice idea, but look what the effect has caused, no clear definition from top to bottom on girls hockey teamns, with some exception at the larger associations ie... EP, Edina & Wayzata.

Not only does TitleIX play a outside role in this debate/question what ever you want to call the post.... Its a trickle down effect; from the District to the Association to the parent group inside the association.... many key components go into Association decisions to play A/B or A or B or Co-Op.

First and foremost it is the numbers. You have to have the numbers to compete at each level, but even beyond numbers, a good talent group. But the numbers dont always dictate the right outcome. The parent group within the association is what can drive the decisions of Association boards. If you get a good parent group that is in it for the girls development then you may wind up in the right division of play.

Talk with as many parents and get their idea of success and development, if you have average players with parents who want the A label, then you have like a team in District 10 that could not compete at the 12A level. Then you have a team in District 2 that found out this past weekend that they made the right decision to play 12B and now they are going to state after winning the play-in game. Two examples of Associations listening to a parent group and getting it right one time and ignoring the parent group the other and making a poor decision to be dealt with by the coach, parent and players.

We do not need another "level" of play for the girls. Title IX is nice, that is why Ridder was built. The numbers do not dictate the action; Associations and parent groups will continue to make decisions based upon their own history of successes and failures and not what should be done with current need of development and guidance for betterment of the players.

Start with your parent group to get it right. Be humble, dont assume because "Betsy" is playing on a AAA team that she needs to be at the "A" level. Make good decisions based on reality, not the dreams that may be.

My 2 cents, look forward to your reply(s).

_____________

Go Blue!

[InigoMontoya]

Then you have a team in District 2 that found out this past weekend that they made the right decision to play 12B and now they are going to state after winning the play-in game.

That philosophy would mean that only 2 or 3 associations in a region made the correct choice to play A, as they were the only ones that went to state. Foolish.

Title IX is nice, that is why Ridder was built.

Title IX may be why they have a women's team (though in the state of hockey I would hope they'd have one anyway), but not why Ridder was built. Foolish. Besides, I don't think that was what Game? meant by the first post. It is about the disparity between the best teams, the middle teams and the teams that are facing challenges with limited numbers of girls with skating experience. A teams playing A teams and C teams playing C teams would be the goal; it's not about wearing a 12UA sweatshirt to the company water cooler for every parent, so try not to paint with such broad strokes.

[drop the puck]

The American Region sent three teams to State. All three were from Associations that chose not to play A hockey. Where is the fairness in that? Champlin is bigger than Tartan or Chisago ...

Redwing also no A team. Then add in the likes of Woodbury and EP. Leaves very little room for advancement of B teams from an average association no matter how good the development is. Maybe that is why some girls quit ?

Your points on HS athletics well taken. Smaller schools do not play bigger schools in sections and state tournaments. But in Youth Hockey we lump the A teams of Wayzeta and Eden Prairie with the likes of Chisago Lake and Cloquet.


Don't fool yourself. Ridder was built for the sole purpose of providing the Gopher men a place to train before heading to the Ralph. UND has an olympic sheet (training) ice in the same building for the exact same reeason ....

[Hockeydaddy]

I'd go along with 3 classes.

Mostly because there is very little real competition at the top of both A & B.

The best A teams kill the weak A teams. The best B teams (generally those with no A team) kill the weak B teams.

Add in how unfair it is for the kids in large associations who just miss their A teams and then get spread across their association. Kids 16-30 in Wayzata, Edina and Eden Prairie should get better treatment.

I think the issue is that nobody wants to be a C team. Call it something else.

[forwards4ever]

For those associations who have nunbers for 3 teams shame on you if you dont put out 2 A teams at the 12 and 14 age groups. The Eden Praries and the Edinas and Centennials you have the numbers but leave the girls out i the cold because you(board members) only care about developing the BOYS. I seen Edina do it 2 years ago and Centennial this year. The answer is development, whats going to develope your kids?
Is it to play a week B schedule or challenge yourselves and play up to compitition. As a coach I ask the bottom to rise to the top, not the top to sink to the bottom. Instead of whining on this blog go to your associations summer board meetings and voice your opinions to them. that is where it all starts.


D10 you got the right ideas except for the title IX thats all about high schols and colleges splitting money for sports not youth athletics.

Love the players, Hate the parents

[checco33]

For those associations who have nunbers for 3 teams shame on you if you dont put out 2 A teams at the 12 and 14 age groups. The Eden Praries and the Edinas and Centennials you have the numbers but leave the girls out i the cold because you(board members) only care about developing the BOYS. I seen Edina do it 2 years ago and Centennial this year. The answer is development, whats going to develope your kids?
Is it to play a week B schedule or challenge yourselves and play up to compitition. As a coach I ask the bottom to rise to the top, not the top to sink to the bottom. Instead of whining on this blog go to your associations summer board meetings and voice your opinions to them. that is where it all starts.


D10 you got the right ideas except for the title IX thats all about high schols and colleges splitting money for sports not youth athletics.

Love the players, Hate the parents

So let me get this straight....only A girls get developed, not B girls? How many girls, by the time they reach highschool have only played A hockey their whole lives? Very few. What a silly statement to make to say shame on Centennial for having one A team and two B's. They have one A team that is very good....but they, along with all the good A teams, still have plenty of competition as they all did at the regions this past weekend. Almost every game between every team was a dog fight. Girls at the B level have just as much opportunity to develop as A players. This argument happens every year because some A teams get blasted and don't get to go to the big tournaments and some B teams get blasted and don't get to go to the big tournaments. So then, the sour grapes start. It's not fair...their B team is too good, they should be an A team. Or...their A team is too good...it's not fair...they should have 2 A teams to make it more fair for our team. How dare they put out a successful program. Here's a thought...instead of whining about it, develop your association and get them better so they can compete at either the A or B level. It's sports...there's no guarentee that everyone can win or be successful. Only through mites everyone gets a medal for showing up. I can't believe we're having the "it's unfair the big schools are beating up on the little schools" arguement. Can you imagine Roseau saying something silly like that?? Warroad? My kid has been on A and B teams so we've been apart of both. We've run into the B teams with no A teams and lost....so what? We got beat last year by a centennial B team 8-1....never even thought about whining how "shame on them" for having two strong B teams. Don't forget...if these B kids are DEDICATED and don't feel they are getting enough development playing B hockey during the season, then they can develop to their heart's content playing summer AAA hockey. One thing most won't admit is there usually is quite a difference in dedication between most of the A players and A GOOD NUMBER of the B players (Notice I didn't say all B players). Many B players don't necessarily want the pressure or intensity of A hockey and prefer B...especially at girls hockey. It's the same old same old this time of the year once everyone is getting knocked out and their season's ended....

[mnhcp]

So let me get this straight....only A girls get developed, not B girls? How many girls, by the time they reach highschool have only played A hockey their whole lives? Very few.

I agree with most everything. But "very few" is a stretch. I don't know the number but I bet it's closer to 50/50 60/40?

[checco33]

So let me get this straight....only A girls get developed, not B girls? How many girls, by the time they reach highschool have only played A hockey their whole lives? Very few.

I agree with most everything. But "very few" is a stretch. I don't know the number but I bet it's closer to 50/50 60/40?

Good Point..You're right...very few was probably a bad choice of words...I would say at least 50/50 or 60/40. I know many girls in our association that go from B to A to B to A year after year...but there is a number of "special" girls that seem to always end up on the A team.

[mnhcp]

So let me get this straight....only A girls get developed, not B girls? How many girls, by the time they reach highschool have only played A hockey their whole lives? Very few.

I agree with most everything. But "very few" is a stretch. I don't know the number but I bet it's closer to 50/50 60/40?

Good Point..You're right...very few was probably a bad choice of words...I would say at least 50/50 or 60/40. I know many girls in our association that go from B to A to B to A year after year...but there is a number of "special" girls that seem to always end up on the A team.

Credibility established!

[forwards4ever]

Great point Checco so its ok to just have fun. I was saying that if your association is big enough, to run 2 A teams to DEVELOPE more kids at a higher level. And for those parents that stand by and let their boards chose their childs fate to quit their whinning for doing so. And your Centennial 12B team that beat you 8-1 was a selected team out of the remaining talent. A team that should have played as a A team last year, but instead breezed through a B schedule and NEVER developed at all.

So with all that said you are right, create a C league (and this happens on the boys side) throw a puck on the ice let them scrimmage all hour of practice. Then the kid will get labeled as a C player. I know your going say its about picking the right coaches. I have been around for a long time and have seen what happens at 14B and think if you have the numbers and talent to run 2 A squads.

Love the players, Hate the parents