Class A Top 10 1-17-10

[HShockeywatcher]

Ten teams have really, in my opinion, separated themselves from the rest of the pack. There are many who could be surprises in sections, but nothing to touch these ten, so I changed this week to a top ten.

1. St Thomas Academy (10-4)
Finish the first half of conference play this Wednesday. They only have one game this week.
-This week: @Mahtomedi (Wed, 7:30pm)

2. Breck (11-1)
Continue to rout weak conference opponent. Play one of 4 remaining tougher games this week at Shattuck this Thursday
-This week: @St Paul Saints (Tues, 8pm), @Shattuck (Thurs, 7pm), St Paul Como Park (Sat, 3pm)

3. Hermantown (13-1)
Continuing to play, and beat, the other top Class A teams lately. This week not only face off against two WI teams, but top 5 AA Eden Prairie. Should a win next Saturday move them up regardless of what happens above them?
-This week: @Superior (Tues, 7:30pm), @Ashland (Thurs, 4:30pm), Eden Prairie (Sat, 12:30pm)

4. Mahtomedi (12-3)
Host St Thomas and Richfield this week.
-This week: St Thomas (Wed, 7:30pm), Richfield (Sat, 3pm)

5. Warroad (13-2)
Rematch with TRF and play Moorhead this week.
-This week: @TRF (Thurs, 7:30pm), Moorhead (Sat,6pm)

6. Thief River Falls (11-4)
Only losses to #3, #5 teams, and good AA Moorhead and Roseau. Only game this week is home against Warroad who beat them away 1-2 earlier this season. Win would really help out for state/section rankings/seeding.
-This week: Warroad (Thurs, 7:30pm)

7. Virginia (11-5-2)
Losses to #3, #4 and to two quality AA opponents. Beat Hibbing this past week, play International falls this week as they continue to control their own destiny for section standing as they have not lost to a section opponent yet.
-This week: @Two Harbors (Tues, 7pm), International Falls (Fri, 7:30pm)

8. Duluth Denfeld (10-3-1)
7-1-1 in their last 9 games; play only one away game the rest of the season. Three big games this week.
-This week: @Hibbing (Tues, 7:30pm), Duluth East (Thurs, 7:30pm), Rochester Lourdes (Sat, 3pm)

9. Blake (9-4)
Their only losses to #4, #6 and quality AA teams. Like Breck, only thing their schedule can do to them is bring them down. Play one of their three remaining quality opponents this week in Minnetonka. Giving the Skippers their first loss would make next weekend interesting for me.
-This week: @Minnetonka (Tues, 7pm), Providence (Thurs, 7:30pm)

10. St Cloud Cathedral (7-4)
Despite losing to Hermantown this week, they move up this week with others losing around them. Their game at Hermantown was the first of 8 away games in a row.
-This week: @Delano (Tues, 7:30pm), @Mound-Westonka (Thurs, 7pm), @Alexandria (Sat, 7pm)

Here’s where everything gets tricky. Teams like Marshall and Sartell keep flirting with the top ten, then have some bad losses.

Standouts of the rest:

Hibbing (7-7-2)
Hibbing has as many wins as they have losses, but they have played some very good teams. Probably the #3 team in 7A right now based on head to head games. Good Class A games this week.
-This week: Denfeld (Tues, 7:30pm), Grand Rapids (Fri, 7:30pm)

Rogers (6-4-2)
4 games this week, no one too great, but going 4-0 can never hurt. Depending on how they finish, they could theoretically get as high as the #2 seed in 5A.
-This week: @Buffalo (Mon, 7pm), @Providence Academy (Tues, 7pm), @Monticello(Thurs, 7:15pm), STMA (Sat, 3pm)

Mound-Westonka (8-4-3)
From their three overtime games in a row, they follow up a win against Hopkins with a tie to 1 win Waconia. Not sure what to think of that…they play two home games this week that should say a lot.
-This week: Litchfield (Tues, 7pm), Cathedral (Thurs, 7pm)

Duluth Marshall (6-8)
Bad losses this week, but have shown they can play with the top teams. They only have one game this week and are not doing well as of late but control their own destiny in 7A despite record.
-This week: Hopkins (Sat, 10am)

Sauk Rapids-Rice (6-7-1)
I know, I know, Sauk Rapids? They have a terrible record and started poorly, but are 5-0 in their last 5 games after which, another poster said, they started a new goalie. Won’t be a top 4 seed, but if they finish strong, they could be the surprise o 5A.
-This week: @Apollo (Tues, 7pm), Wilmar (Thurs, 7pm)

Rochester Lourdes (8-4-2)
Have two Duluth away games this week. Lourdes is always a contender in 1A, but they may prove to be a Class A contender as the season goes on. They have, possibly, one of the top 3 of the toughest of Class A schedules remaining.
-This week: @Duluth Central (Fri, 7:30pm), @Duluth Denfeld (Sat, 3pm)

Spring Lake Park (14-2)
I know, they lost to Irondale, but Warroad lost to EGF and is still considered top 5; everyone gets a hiccup. They did score 4 goals on BSM and both allowed less to St Francis and scored twice as many than Virginia. I'll be the first to tell you comparing scores means near nothing, but it's all we have for them thus far as they've played all of one quality opponent to date. Play Mahtomedi, Totino twice and Brainerd, so we will find out about them as the season comes to a close.
-This week: @Totino-Grace (Thurs, 7pm)

[RBKhockey77]

I just think that its funny how cathedral can get slaughtered by Breck and Hermantown, and still crack the top 10. They lost the two games with a combined score of 16-3. They really haven't beat any quality teams yet either, and neither has Duluth Denfield in my opinion. Also, Blake may only have quality losses but do they have any quality wins? A one goal win against St Paul Academy, a team that Spring Lake Park beat 9-2

[HShockeywatcher]

I just think that its funny how cathedral can get slaughtered by Breck and Hermantown, and still crack the top 10. They lost the two games with a combined score of 16-3. They really haven't beat any quality teams yet either, and neither has Duluth Denfield in my opinion. Also, Blake may only have quality losses but do they have any quality wins? A one goal win against St Paul Academy, a team that Spring Lake Park beat 9-2

1. Cathedral
a. They are not the same team without Nate Schmidt (did he leave on his own or did the Gophs ask him to?)
b. Breck and Hermantown are the #2 and #3 ranked teams in most polls. Despite what the BCS tells you, losing to teams better than you shouldn't bring you down. Yes, they got routed. But no one has said they are an elite team. They are a good team and both H'town and Breck are elite teams.
c. Haven't beat any teams? Maybe none in the top 10, but I wouldn't consider Denfeld, HFC, Lourdes and Orono no one.

2. Blake
a. Not going to start a parallel thread, but a win's a win. While Tonka has won all of their games, many of their wins have either been dominations of bad teams or close games with top teams.
b. Not saying you're wrong, but they took the #5 team to OT...
c. The SPA situation I bring up is the idea I've brought up many times. We all know Blake is better than SPA. Well, maybe Blake went into this game starting their back up, starting their 4th line and playing a defensive game instead of an offensive game. We don't know, which is why a win is a win.

3. Breck
The reason I posed the poll question:
They've beaten a pretty good Mahtomedi team twice, killed Orono, beaten Cathedral and lost to STA in OT in STA's first game of the season, not to mention an away game. Not to say they aren't good, but have they really proven to be the #2 team? Personally (yes, an STA fan) I could justify them at #4.

4. Denfeld
They are where they are at because they haven't lost to anyone they shouldn't have, not because of who they've beaten. Yes, they lost to SCC, but they didn't lose to Rogers. Etc, etc. Class A is not deep enough where you have to have beaten great teams to be a top 10 team, you have to simply not have lost to bad teams and you are one of the few who hasn't.

5. Spring Lake Park
Every team is allow a hiccup, as I said. Following that principle, they could be a top 5 team in Class A. Boise State shows us why they are not (their schedule). Unlike the BCS, we have a playoff. They are in a section with SSP, Maht, Totino and STA, not only do they have three season games with Totino and Maht.

Thanks for your observations

[northwoods oldtimer]

I just think that its funny how cathedral can get slaughtered by Breck and Hermantown, and still crack the top 10. They lost the two games with a combined score of 16-3.

Correct RBK that alone should drop them from "Top 10". They need to earn their way back to top 10 material on the ice.

[HShockeywatcher]

I just think that its funny how cathedral can get slaughtered by Breck and Hermantown, and still crack the top 10. They lost the two games with a combined score of 16-3.

Correct RBK that alone should drop them from "Top 10". They need to earn their way back to top 10 material on the ice.

C'mon guys, by that logic Duluth East would not be top 10 material. But we all know getting beat by better teams doesn't bring you down. It just goes to say how good the teams beating them all. You really think the #10 can't lose to the #2 and #3?

That's bad but TRF can lose to H'town 0-7 and be at #6. Face it, the top 3 are in a league of their own, the next 4 are another league and the rest are on the outside looking in. In my opinion.

Really, I could've made it a "Top 7" and then had a bigger 'standouts' section, but 10 was a better number.

[USHLTender]

I just think that its funny how cathedral can get slaughtered by Breck and Hermantown, and still crack the top 10. They lost the two games with a combined score of 16-3. They really haven't beat any quality teams yet either, and neither has Duluth Denfield in my opinion. Also, Blake may only have quality losses but do they have any quality wins? A one goal win against St Paul Academy, a team that Spring Lake Park beat 9-2

1. Cathedral
a. They are not the same team without Nate Schmidt (did he leave on his own or did the Gophs ask him to?)
b. Breck and Hermantown are the #2 and #3 ranked teams in most polls. Despite what the BCS tells you, losing to teams better than you shouldn't bring you down. Yes, they got routed. But no one has said they are an elite team. They are a good team and both H'town and Breck are elite teams.
c. Haven't beat any teams? Maybe none in the top 10, but I wouldn't consider Denfeld, HFC, Lourdes and Orono no one.

I wouldn't consider orono to be a very strong team, unless i watched them on an off night....

[mnhockeynemn]

St. Cloud should be taken off that list, they haven't proven anything as of late, and Duluth Marshal has been very iffy also.

[HShockeywatcher]

Following up on my poll question; if St Thomas/Breck wins all of their Class A games (I'm also assuming St Thomas won't lose to NSP or Tartan) that would leave only a possible Breck loss to Shattuck and a possible STA loss to HM. Under what circumstances, would one of them fall losing only one of their remaining games?

In my opinion;

-assuming St Thomas beats Mahtomedi twice, St Thomas losing to HM and Mahtomedi beating them isn't enough for them.

-if Hermantown wins out, which includes nothing else too spectacular except the EP game, that would not be enough to bring either Breck/STA down if they do lose that one game. If either of them wins out, then H'town stays where they are.

Thoughts? So far a majority think there's a circumstance to bring one of them down and I'm curious to hear thoughts

Thanks

[mnhockeynemn]

Hermantown and Warroad have been playing great hockey this year as they have in the past years, I think they should easily be in the top 3 spots. They prove themselves in the state tourneys.

Hermantown at least #2
Warroad at least #3

[HShockeywatcher]

Hermantown and Warroad have been playing great hockey this year as they have in the past years, I think they should easily be in the top 3 spots. They prove themselves in the state tourneys.

Hermantown at least #2
Warroad at least #3

Who would you move down and why? The reason I wouldn't say Warroad, unless there's a huge hiccup, is their EGF loss.

[mnhockeynemn]

Everybody has one of those games, look at proctor over duluth marshal last week, STA yeah they have 4 losses but to very good teams, the team I would move down is breck to number 4. Just my opinion.

[hockeyrocks]

Everybody has one of those games, look at proctor over duluth marshal last week, STA yeah they have 4 losses but to very good teams, the team I would move down is breck to number 4. Just my opinion.

I'm guessing that you haven't actually seen either STA or Breck play this year. Having seen both teams play a couple of games this year, including against each other the only way you move these two teams down is if they lose to any of their remaining A opponents. Which I think is highly unlikely as these two teams play at a different level than anyone else in Class A. In my book they are ligit top 10's in AA. If Breck can somehow beat the North American All-Stars.....I mean Shattuck Thursday then they deserve to be #1. If they lose but keep it respectable, they stay @ #2. If STA wins out with only a loss to HM and Breck wins out with only a loss to SSM then the rankings should end where they are now with STA @ #1.

I realize that there are always upsets, but I hate to say that it wll be shocking if anyone but one of these two aren't the Champs come March.

[elliott70]

1 Breck
2 STA
3 Hermantown
4 Warroad
5 Thief River Falls
6 Mahtomedia
7 Virginia
8 Blake
9 Alexandria
10 Duluth Denfeld
11 So St Paul
12 Sartell
13 Duluith Marshall
14 Hibbing
15 St Cloud Cathedral

[HShockeywatcher]

1 Breck
2 STA
3 Hermantown
4 Warroad
5 Thief River Falls
6 Mahtomedia
7 Virginia
8 Blake
9 Alexandria
10 Duluth Denfeld
11 So St Paul
12 Sartell
13 Duluith Marshall
14 Hibbing
15 St Cloud Cathedral

1. St Thomas beat Breck away the first game of the season. Close score, not close game.
2. Alex has done little to stay high.
3. Cathedral crushed Denfeld; with the except of Rogers, Cathedral hasn't lost to teams they shouldn't.

[BigTen]

IMO, if Hermantown does happen to win all games this week including EP ,then they deserve to move to the top spot. STA has not defeated that high of a ranked team in AA nor has Breck. But if Breck defeats Shattuck's it would be more difficult to judge.

[elliott70]

1 Breck
2 STA
3 Hermantown
4 Warroad
5 Thief River Falls
6 Mahtomedia
7 Virginia
8 Blake
9 Alexandria
10 Duluth Denfeld
11 So St Paul
12 Sartell
13 Duluith Marshall
14 Hibbing
15 St Cloud Cathedral[/quote]

1. St Thomas beat Breck away the first game of the season. Close score, not close game.

Rankings are about who the opinionator thinks will win the NEXT game.
Close score is a close game and it was a month ago or more.
Besides, you know I don't like STA.

2. Alex has done little to stay high.
Alex has a decent team as witnessed.

3. Cathedral crushed Denfeld; with the except of Rogers, Cathedral hasn't lost to teams they shouldn't.

I have seen SCC - they are a decent team about #15 amoung A teams.
Denfeld is a decent team probably bettern than SCC at this point but I am not speaking from having seen them play.

[MNHockey75]

1. St. Thomas Academy
2. Breck
3. Hermantown
4. Mahtomedi
5. Warroad
6. Virginia
7. Thief River Falls
8. Blake
9. Duluth Denfeld
10. Alexandria
11. Hibbing
12. Mound-Westonka
13. Rogers
14. St. Cloud Cathedral
15. Faribault
On watch: Duluth Marshall, South St. Paul, Orono, Sartell, Rochester Lourdes

[RBKhockey77]

No Spring Lake Park in that mix? With the exception of their fluke loss to Irondale, they have cleaned up on every team that they should beat. They have scored the most goals in class A, and although the teams that they have played aren't the greatest, they are getting it done and scoring A LOT of goals.

I would also like to point out that not only did Spring Lake Park stomp all over St. Francis, but they held Benik to a very soft goal, and only two shots. Virginia struggled and only won that game 4-3.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, Spring Lake Park also beat up on St. Paul Academy 9-2, a team that Blake only beat 3-2. I still laugh when I see Blake in the top 10 on almost everybody's rankings. VERY average team at best. If they don't get put into running time by Tonka I would be shocked.

[HShockeywatcher]

1. St Thomas beat Breck away the first game of the season. Close score, not close game.

Rankings are about who the opinionator thinks will win the NEXT game.
Close score is a close game and it was a month ago or more.
Besides, you know I don't like STA.

-Interesting point of very. Not how I would think most think of it. At least I think about it as a judgment based on how they've proven themselves from the games they've played.

-Close score in a very lopsided game from every report on it. Yes, it was a month ago, but if they can outshoot Breck 2:1 in their first game of the season away while it's Breck's 3rd game and home, I would personally think over a month later after playing a more difficult schedule the result wouldn't be better for Breck.

-I didn't know that, guess I do now.

RBKhockey77,

I gave my reasons for them where they're at. They have a good remaining schedule, so we'll see what they can do. Comparing scores is not an exact science.

I hope they rebound. I wish they were in a different section, it would be nice to see them at state.

[warriors41]

1. St Thomas beat Breck away the first game of the season. Close score, not close game.

Rankings are about who the opinionator thinks will win the NEXT game.
Close score is a close game and it was a month ago or more.
Besides, you know I don't like STA.

-Interesting point of very. Not how I would think most think of it. At least I think about it as a judgment based on how they've proven themselves from the games they've played.

-Close score in a very lopsided game from every report on it. Yes, it was a month ago, but if they can outshoot Breck 2:1 in their first game of the season away while it's Breck's 3rd game and home, I would personally think over a month later after playing a more difficult schedule the result wouldn't be better for Breck.

-I didn't know that, guess I do now.

RBKhockey77,

I gave my reasons for them where they're at. They have a good remaining schedule, so we'll see what they can do. Comparing scores is not an exact science.

I hope they rebound. I wish they were in a different section, it would be nice to see them at state.

I would just like to point out that Breck won the state title last year even though they were outshot almost 2:1 by Warroad. They are a team that doesn't need to outshoot the opposition to be effective.

[Goldy23]

1. St Thomas beat Breck away the first game of the season. Close score, not close game.

Rankings are about who the opinionator thinks will win the NEXT game.
Close score is a close game and it was a month ago or more.
Besides, you know I don't like STA.

-Interesting point of very. Not how I would think most think of it. At least I think about it as a judgment based on how they've proven themselves from the games they've played.

-Close score in a very lopsided game from every report on it. Yes, it was a month ago, but if they can outshoot Breck 2:1 in their first game of the season away while it's Breck's 3rd game and home, I would personally think over a month later after playing a more difficult schedule the result wouldn't be better for Breck.

-I didn't know that, guess I do now.

RBKhockey77,

I gave my reasons for them where they're at. They have a good remaining schedule, so we'll see what they can do. Comparing scores is not an exact science.

I hope they rebound. I wish they were in a different section, it would be nice to see them at state.

Hold on now. It is true that it was a close game. It was also true that STA outshot them 2-1. It is also true that STA had 7 power plays to Breck's 1 (Catholic refs) meaning the Mustangs played shorthanded for more than an entire period, so of course they are going to be outshot. As Warrior stated, they don't need to outshoot every opponent to win. I think the story of that game was just as much how Breck could actually carry the lead into the 3rd period being shorthanded as much as they were. (Answer: John Russell-One of the best goalies in the state)

Either way you wan to slice it, these are two excellent teams and I am quite sure that if there is a rematch the shot totals won't be nearly as lopsided.

[HShockeywatcher]

1. St Thomas beat Breck away the first game of the season. Close score, not close game.

Rankings are about who the opinionator thinks will win the NEXT game.
Close score is a close game and it was a month ago or more.
Besides, you know I don't like STA.

-Interesting point of very. Not how I would think most think of it. At least I think about it as a judgment based on how they've proven themselves from the games they've played.

-Close score in a very lopsided game from every report on it. Yes, it was a month ago, but if they can outshoot Breck 2:1 in their first game of the season away while it's Breck's 3rd game and home, I would personally think over a month later after playing a more difficult schedule the result wouldn't be better for Breck.

-I didn't know that, guess I do now.

RBKhockey77,

I gave my reasons for them where they're at. They have a good remaining schedule, so we'll see what they can do. Comparing scores is not an exact science.

I hope they rebound. I wish they were in a different section, it would be nice to see them at state.

Hold on now. It is true that it was a close game. It was also true that STA outshot them 2-1. It is also true that STA had 7 power plays to Breck's 1 (Catholic refs) meaning the Mustangs played shorthanded for more than an entire period, so of course they are going to be outshot. As Warrior stated, they don't need to outshoot every opponent to win. I think the story of that game was just as much how Breck could actually carry the lead into the 3rd period being shorthanded as much as they were. (Answer: John Russell-One of the best goalies in the state)

Either way you wan to slice it, these are two excellent teams and I am quite sure that if there is a rematch the shot totals won't be nearly as lopsided.

I wasn't there so I cannot personally comment on the game. The one point I was trying to make with the post:

"Close score is a close game" is what elliot said. Not only does a close score not imply a close game, but from just about every single report on the game it was very lopsided and some said Breck was lucky to get out of there with the score as close as it was.

-Additionally, I will admit a team can win while being out shot and that Breck does seem to have a good goalie, but I don't think being out shot 2:1, making seven penalties, and managing to take a team to OT in their first game of the season on your ice while having played a much easier schedule since the meeting is grounds for saying they will win the next match up.

Any more thoughts on H'town? If they don't win out and make it to state, they'll be the #3 seed pending upsets. If they win out, and other Class A teams lose any games, is that enough to go up?

[elliott70]

-Interesting point of very. Not how I would think most think of it. At least I think about it as a judgment based on how they've proven themselves from the games they've played.

-Close score in a very lopsided game from every report on it. Yes, it was a month ago, but if they can outshoot Breck 2:1 in their first game of the season away while it's Breck's 3rd game and home, I would personally think over a month later after playing a more difficult schedule the result wouldn't be better for Breck.

-I didn't know that, guess I do now.

RBKhockey77,

I gave my reasons for them where they're at. They have a good remaining schedule, so we'll see what they can do. Comparing scores is not an exact science.

I hope they rebound. I wish they were in a different section, it would be nice to see them at state.

Hold on now. It is true that it was a close game. It was also true that STA outshot them 2-1. It is also true that STA had 7 power plays to Breck's 1 (Catholic refs) meaning the Mustangs played shorthanded for more than an entire period, so of course they are going to be outshot. As Warrior stated, they don't need to outshoot every opponent to win. I think the story of that game was just as much how Breck could actually carry the lead into the 3rd period being shorthanded as much as they were. (Answer: John Russell-One of the best goalies in the state)

Either way you wan to slice it, these are two excellent teams and I am quite sure that if there is a rematch the shot totals won't be nearly as lopsided.

I wasn't there so I cannot personally comment on the game. The one point I was trying to make with the post:

"Close score is a close game" is what elliot said. Not only does a close score not imply a close game, but from just about every single report on the game it was very lopsided and some said Breck was lucky to get out of there with the score as close as it was.

-Additionally, I will admit a team can win while being out shot and that Breck does seem to have a good goalie, but I don't think being out shot 2:1, making seven penalties, and managing to take a team to OT in their first game of the season on your ice while having played a much easier schedule since the meeting is grounds for saying they will win the next match up.

Any more thoughts on H'town? If they don't win out and make it to state, they'll be the #3 seed pending upsets. If they win out, and other Class A teams lose any games, is that enough to go up?

HSHW, you have a bias as I would guess most that you talk with do.
Everything a person reads, hears and sees not only comes to the person with bias but is processed by the person with bias.

A one goal game is close unless the opposition scored twice with 30 seconds to go. It cannot be spun to be something other than what it is a close game. One team may have outplayed the other but the game was a close game.

I have admitted my bias against STA, but WE ('bored' members) have no say in who eventually gets seeded 1-4 at the state tourney. All we do is give our rankings which, in essence, is our predicting of who would beat whom in their next matchup.

I think Breck would beat STA - why?
Because they have one every other game they have played, the first game was close, they are the defending champs with virtually the same team, STA has lost some games (granted against good foes but they have lost).

[Northhcky]

HSHW not in dissagreement with any of your rankings and want to thank you for your time an effort put into them. Just want to ask tho with STA obviously playing a tougher schedule than Hermantown and not familiar with Brecks but say it is more difficult or the same as Hermantowns i don't see how Hermantown could move up. Unless like you said there is a huge hiccup somewhere which i doubt will happen. Now let me ask you for your thoughts on this. In 07 with the different difficulty in schedules how did Hermantown get to be ranked #1 and get the #1 seed? Was it just because they were undefeated? STA was a very good team with a harder schedule. Thoughts?

[HShockeywatcher]

HSHW not in dissagreement with any of your rankings and want to thank you for your time an effort put into them. Just want to ask tho with STA obviously playing a tougher schedule than Hermantown and not familiar with Brecks but say it is more difficult or the same as Hermantowns i don't see how Hermantown could move up. Unless like you said there is a huge hiccup somewhere which i doubt will happen. Now let me ask you for your thoughts on this. In 07 with the different difficulty in schedules how did Hermantown get to be ranked #1 and get the #1 seed? Was it just because they were undefeated? STA was a very good team with a harder schedule. Thoughts?

In my [humble] opinion, it was their undefeated-ness.

You simply have to look at schedules and you'll see why. They didn't play many people not did they win by much. It'd be like putting an undefeated Winona at #1.