Transfer rule - public to private, let's play RIGHT NOW?

[Nonamer]

OK, two players from two different public schools in Duluth are transferring to The Marshall School for the 09-10 school year. One will be a senior, one will be a sophomore, and each played last year for their respective public(East/Denfeld) high school varsity boy's hockey teams.

How in God's green earth could they transfer to a private and be immediately eligible to play varsity boy's hockey for the 09-10 MSHSL season?

Am I missing something? How can this be? If this is true what good does any kind of transfer rule do?

[midwesthockeyscout]

If they physically have moved addresses, they should be entitled to transfer. I am not privy of the school proximities, that would be left up to Karl (east) to specify, but, if Denfeld was several miles away from Marshall, etc, they could technically transfer with the move AND/OR the coach may give them a waiver.

[dueling21]

Here's the answer, straight from the MSHSL site.

Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.

Since Marshall is a private school, it falls under the second sentence. The student-athlete must change residence to a different public school district area (i.e. from the Denfeld to the Central school district) at which time they are eligible to attend and compete right away for a private school such as Marshall. But they couldn't just transfer from public to private without moving out of their current public school district and into another public school district -- at least as I read it.

[dueling21]

And since all three public schools in Duluth (and Marshall) are all within about 10 miles of each other, moving between districts doesn't require a big move...in fact, some neighborhoods even straddle the boundaries, so you could conceivably move next door and change school districts.

[dueling21]

OK, two players from two different public schools in Duluth are transferring to The Marshall School for the 09-10 school year. One will be a senior, one will be a sophomore, and each played last year for their respective public(East/Denfeld) high school varsity boy's hockey teams.

How in God's green earth could they transfer to a private and be immediately eligible to play varsity boy's hockey for the 09-10 MSHSL season?

Am I missing something? How can this be? If this is true what good does any kind of transfer rule do?

Just curious, but how reliable is the scoop on these transfers? Have they already enrolled at Marshall?

[oldguy39]

If they enrolled before the new transfer rule was set in place, they can transfer with no penalty. The school may not have had room until now for the players.

[Nonamer]

There's always room for players at The Marshall School...not sure about the player's place of residence, except that I've heard one is way inside the East boundary, and the other is way inside the Denfeld boundary.

Hmmmm...looks like somebody, or somebodies, working the system here.

[karl(east)]

Here's the answer, straight from the MSHSL site.

Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.

Since Marshall is a private school, it falls under the second sentence. The student-athlete must change residence to a different public school district area (i.e. from the Denfeld to the Central school district) at which time they are eligible to attend and compete right away for a private school such as Marshall. But they couldn't just transfer from public to private without moving out of their current public school district and into another public school district -- at least as I read it.

East, Central, and Denfeld are all part of the same school district, though--they're all in ISD 709.

Or does the MSHSL define a "public school attendance area" as the region from which a high school draws (if so, they should really drop the use of the word "district", then--too much confusion), regardless of school district boundaries? Then that explanation might make sense.

Do you have a link to the MSHSL rules on this? That would be very helpful.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Let's see the soph is one of 2 choices from Denfeld? Would the same question apply to the kid from Virginia (transfer rule)? Now an East kid transferring to Marshall....what the....that has got to be a Souchary 'end of the world as we know it'! Give us a comment on that Karl, as that is just plain sacrilege.

[dueling21]

Here's the link I found:

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/news/eligque ... fer%20Rule

And you're right about the confusing terminology...gotta love jargon. I think they have to mean "school attendance area" instead of "school district."

But that's just the Q and A. The official booklet is:

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/publications ... igInfo.pdf

You have to download/view the PDF form to actually get at it.

[Nonamer]

And now a goalie from Silver Bay will play for East in 09-10? Transfer rule? Say what? This is starting to get fun!

[dueling21]

And now a goalie from Silver Bay will play for East in 09-10? Transfer rule? Say what?

What the heck's going on over there in the Northeast, nonamer? School hasn't even started yet!

[karl(east)]

After re-reading the rule a few times, I have to agree with Dueling's interpretation...a player cannot go straight from East or Denfeld to Marshall without sitting out a year unless he moves from one "school attendance area" to another. The only other possible caveat I found was the divorce rule:

4. Custody of Student: a student of legally divorced parents who
have joint physical custody of the student may move from one
custodial parent to the other custodial parent and be fully
eligible at the time of the move. The student may utilize this
provision only one time during grades 9-12 inclusive.

I find it a little suspicious that this would happen twice within a week, though. So unless these players have definitely switched school attendance areas, I am nearly certain that they are ineligible. Someone may want to tell Marshall this; we wouldn't want them to have to forfeit half their season, now, would we?

As for the transfers in and out of East...well, it's nothing new for this program. The new goalie won't even be the only Silver Bay transplant on next year's team. And as for the player going from East to Marshall...well, obviously he didn't consult me on the move; pity, I could have saved his family some money.

[dueling21]

Good ole Rusty was the first player I remember shifting from Silver Bay to East...and it turned out well for him. Not sure who the two on this coming year's team are, though.

[maskedfan]

rumor has it there is a handful of kids heading to Marshall. Does anyone know what Marshall has for the 09-10 season? I am real curious to know why players are trying to jump ship. Does anyone know what players are considering the move? I would think they would not transfer unless they were certain they are able to play. Has there been a loophole found in the transfer rules?

[youngblood08]

Who cares they are only single A anyways.

[maskedfan]

youngblood....your point is????????????

[youngblood08]

we are already taking the open enrollment issue down the public/private school road and have the whole north eastern minn high school hockey issues along for the ride. The Class A/AA was getting jealeous and was threatening to go to the papers so I gave that issues a shout out. I am on the way to pick up the 9th and 10th graders that need to play varsity so they get more exposure cause now they are feeling left out!

[Nonamer]

While students transfer for any number of reasons, it's always difficult to remain objective about the nature of such a move. Are players driven by the desire to play for particular coach? Play for anyone except their present coach? Move to more competitive team? Move to a less competitive team? One can never know if it's the parent or the player initiating the move.

Interestingly enough, if a player meets all criteria in the transfer policy and how it affects them, the new coach cannot tell these transfer they're not welcome - the player has to be treated just like everyone else, no matter some returning player may lose their spot to the "new" person.

Frankly, IMO a transfer to participate in high school sports is a bit thin. When the time finally does come to accept the fact that we may not be as good as everyone else, we need to move on and consider it a fact of life - a learning experience you might say. There may be exceptions - injury, changing family situation, etc - but life is tough, and the sooner you learn to deal with it, the better.

[Poolside]

This seems like the reversal of the kid who came back to Edina last year from the private school sector. Apparently his folks lived in the Edina district before and after his move to the private sector so he was allowed to play both football and hockey once he came back to the public school. So how is this kid's move to Marshall any different? Do private schools really have defined boundaries that would require a move in and out? What is considered "out of bounds" or "within bounds" for a private school? I think a good attorney has a case for the vagueness of the transfer rule when it involves private schools.

[hockeydad]

This seems like the reversal of the kid who came back to Edina last year from the private school sector. Apparently his folks lived in the Edina district before and after his move to the private sector so he was allowed to play both football and hockey once he came back to the public school. So how is this kid's move to Marshall any different? Do private schools really have defined boundaries that would require a move in and out? What is considered "out of bounds" or "within bounds" for a private school? I think a good attorney has a case for the vagueness of the transfer rule when it involves private schools.

the difference is that in the case of the Edina kid who left St. Thomas Academy to come back to Edina, he transferred for the 07-08 season under the old rule, which allowed one transfer - for any reason - during your four years of high school without loss of eligibility. A new rule went into effect in March of '08 for the 08-09 season. Any transfer that came after that date under those circumstances would have been ineligible. There was a loophole that any transfer for 0809 in which the paperwork was filed before March 08 was subject to the old rule. This year (09-10) will be the first year the new rule is totally in place.

[dlhhockey]

And now a goalie from Silver Bay will play for East in 09-10? Transfer rule? Say what? This is starting to get fun!

So with five goalies already trying out, the Jr. tender from SB is going to come down? Yes, he played 23 games LY, but with a 5.35 GA a .879 SV%, and a record of 6-15-2 I hope he has to go through the process just like everyone else. They might want to put a rider in their apartment lease in case it doesn't work out.

[Nonamer]

You sir, are a funny man! Accurate, truthful, and funny!

[karl(east)]

Frankly, IMO a transfer to participate in high school sports is a bit thin. When the time finally does come to accept the fact that we may not be as good as everyone else, we need to move on and consider it a fact of life - a learning experience you might say. There may be exceptions - injury, changing family situation, etc - but life is tough, and the sooner you learn to deal with it, the better.

For the most part, I agree completely. Problem is, it's nearly impossible to tell when a transfer is solely for athletics, and when it's not. It's especially slippery with the schools we're talking about; with all due respect to the other schools, Marshall and East probably have the strongest academic reputations of anywhere in the northeast. In this case, it's easy to make reasons appear academic, even if they're not at all.

There isn't really a good way to judge these things, so we're stuck with what we've got.

It'll be interesting to see how the East goalie situation plays out.

[defense]

Here's the answer, straight from the MSHSL site.

Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.

Since Marshall is a private school, it falls under the second sentence. The student-athlete must change residence to a different public school district area (i.e. from the Denfeld to the Central school district) at which time they are eligible to attend and compete right away for a private school such as Marshall. But they couldn't just transfer from public to private without moving out of their current public school district and into another public school district -- at least as I read it.

East, Central, and Denfeld are all part of the same school district, though--they're all in ISD 709.

Or does the MSHSL define a "public school attendance area" as the region from which a high school draws (if so, they should really drop the use of the word "district", then--too much confusion), regardless of school district boundaries? Then that explanation might make sense.

Do you have a link to the MSHSL rules on this? That would be very helpful.

They do clear up the definition of "Public High School district area". IF there is more than one high school in a district, then the "area" is the area as defined by "a board of education." What they are saying is that if a student's family moved from the area of DuLuth that Denfield serves to the area of DuLuth that East serves, the student is immediately eligible.
There is a statement in their handbook that clears it up though, according to the mshsl, a transfer is defined as: a student stops enrolling at their current high school and enrolls at a different high school. With that language, there shouldn't be a loophole.