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[HockeyDad41]

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[InigoMontoya]

An association should be shooting for Revenue = Expenses. Revenue is made up of Fees & Fundraising (along with home tourneys, etc.). To make the equation remain equal, if Fundraising goes down then fees must go up. Take away the calendar and your fee goes up more than $100. From your standpoint, you should just buy the 5 calendars if you don't want to sell them and can afford to buy them (or pay the increased fee); you'll get a shot at winning the raffle. Those who can't afford to pay the additional $100-$200 will have the option of selling the 5-10 calendars so their kid can play. This really isn't any different than if they require you to work the concession stand or serve as a minor official, they'd have to hire someone to do it if you didn't, and your fee would go up. Unless, of course, you have a religious or moral objection to gambling.

[seek & destroy]

An association should be shooting for Revenue = Expenses. Revenue is made up of Fees & Fundraising (along with home tourneys, etc.). To make the equation remain equal, if Fundraising goes down then fees must go up. Take away the calendar and your fee goes up more than $100. From your standpoint, you should just buy the 5 calendars if you don't want to sell them and can afford to buy them (or pay the increased fee); you'll get a shot at winning the raffle. Those who can't afford to pay the additional $100-$200 will have the option of selling the 5-10 calendars so their kid can play. This really isn't any different than if they require you to work the concession stand or serve as a minor official, they'd have to hire someone to do it if you didn't, and your fee would go up. Unless, of course, you have a religious or moral objection to gambling.

Very good answer! There are a lot of fees that people don't realize are paid by their local association. Fees to your district, Minnesota Hockey, insurance, refs for games, tryout icetime & equipment are just a few. These fees add up and need to be shared by the entire association. A forced fundraiser makes sure that everyone either participates or, if they choose not to participate, they pay their fair share.

Too often people like to sit on their hands and let others do all the work. A forced fundraiser allows the people who can't afford higher fees to try to earn their extra fee by selling something (in your case a calendar) while also making sure that the lazy guy who doesn't want to do anything also pays the equivalent in higher fees by being forced to buy some calendars. At least this way a person could get lucky and win some of their money back.

It would be nice to not have to force people to help raise funds but there are way to many people who will just sit back and watch while others do the heavy lifting.

[HockeyDad41]

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[Whatthe]

HD41 - why would you and other parents come to the conclusion that the fundraising money is not spent on the kids?

I suspect your association has financials available to any member that wants to spend the time to look them over. I also suspect that if the association paid to print out financials for everyone in the association 99% would hit the wastebasket.

[dogeatdog1]

Go to a board meeting and see where you can volunteer, also see if you have any other suggestions on how to keep costs down. I am sure that there is a spot for you on the board at your association. Remember if you want to criticize get involved. I am sure that the board members are selling the calendars. And every dime that the board spends goes to the program.. Not saying this is you but most people sit on the sidelines and complain without all of the infomation and are too lazy to get involved.

[spin-o-rama]

Mandatory fundraisers are a crock. List out the costs to play and let people pay them. Provide a fundraiser as an opportunity for those who would like help earning the dough. Why should a buyout be equal to the gross fundraiser income?

I am glad that I live in an association that doesn't have mandatory concession stand duty and fundraisers. And you know what? Things run pretty smooth.

BTW, how profitable are concession stands to associations? I have never seen any figures. I would like to know the profit/volunteer hour. My guess is that it is well below minimum wage.

[boardmember]

An association should be shooting for Revenue = Expenses. Revenue is made up of Fees & Fundraising (along with home tourneys, etc.). To make the equation remain equal, if Fundraising goes down then fees must go up. Take away the calendar and your fee goes up more than $100. From your standpoint, you should just buy the 5 calendars if you don't want to sell them and can afford to buy them (or pay the increased fee); you'll get a shot at winning the raffle. Those who can't afford to pay the additional $100-$200 will have the option of selling the 5-10 calendars so their kid can play. This really isn't any different than if they require you to work the concession stand or serve as a minor official, they'd have to hire someone to do it if you didn't, and your fee would go up. Unless, of course, you have a religious or moral objection to gambling.

Very good answer! There are a lot of fees that people don't realize are paid by their local association. Fees to your district, Minnesota Hockey, insurance, refs for games, tryout icetime & equipment are just a few. These fees add up and need to be shared by the entire association. A forced fundraiser makes sure that everyone either participates or, if they choose not to participate, they pay their fair share.

Too often people like to sit on their hands and let others do all the work. A forced fundraiser allows the people who can't afford higher fees to try to earn their extra fee by selling something (in your case a calendar) while also making sure that the lazy guy who doesn't want to do anything also pays the equivalent in higher fees by being forced to buy some calendars. At least this way a person could get lucky and win some of their money back.

It would be nice to not have to force people to help raise funds but there are way to many people who will just sit back and watch while others do the heavy lifting.

Thanks for the insight. Perhaps if my association did a better job of explaining what the calendar dollars collected go for and how it benefits the association, people would feel differently. I know I would.

The absence of any kind of explanation other than "if you don't sell the calendars/pay the $200, your kid can't play in our association, and oh by the way he can't play in any other association either, so you'd better conform" caused a lot of upset parents.

I can see why some want the option of playing at a better run association.

In Texas, a Soccer Club held a fundraiser and set a minimum that each player must buy or contribute. At collection time they was a portion of the membership that did not meet the minimun requirements or did not raise any money. These players were told they could not play until they met the minimum fund raising requirements.

Parents sued, Soccer Club lost its Non Profit stauts. Judge ruled...."The main principle of funding by a U.S. IRS 501(c)(3) nonprofit is that the booster club may not discriminate in making grants to youth or college students on the basis of their family's membership in or funding to the club, or the family's fund-raising or time put into club activities."

If the mandatory fees/fundraising is explained upfront at registration ( including minimums and consenquences) its considered "part of the fees associated with club membership" and legal. What comes into question is the fact that you have no other choices to play anywhere else. Its not by choice that you are joining a particular association but by MH Hockeys mandate. Not all Associations have mandatory fundraisers?

[Whatthe]

No question you can get rid of mandatory fundraisers and charge higher fees. But the difference between the net and gross on most good fundraisers is pretty modest so its not like your saving much by just paying cash.

Most use the fundraisers/gambling money to subsidize association-owned indoor/outdoor rinks, mite equipment and ice (to get, maintain and grow the numbers), off-set USA, MH and district fees, provide scholarships to needy families, subsidize/off-set goalie equipment and training, hire non-parent coaches, etc. etc.

You can always eliminate most of these extra costs and programs. Then watch people complain about what a crappy association you have. Or you can keep all the programs, fundraisers and higher fees. Then watch people complain about what a crappy association you have.

[hockey_is_a_choice]

The comment that people who write checks are "lazy" is offensive. People have either talent or treasure to contribute to any organization. If folks are willing to write checks, that doesn't mean they are lazy. Instead, it means they have decided to spend their time on something else (e.g., serving on a church, school or other nonprofit board; volunteering at school or scouts; coaching other sports; burning the midnight oil by working long hours; or caring for family members or friends).

I, for one, am willing to pay the full cost of my kid's hockey. If it means paying someone else to work at a tournament or staff concessions, that should be my decision. I recognize, however, that others are willing to donate countless hours. I appreciate their contributions. Further, I recognize that others may not be willing to--but feel forced into--volunteering or participating in a fundraiser because they can't afford to write another check. The fact remains that all organizations require contributions of talent and treasure. We need volunteers and we need those who are willing and able to write checks.

As long as the requirements are set forth in writing, there are no surprises. You can't force people to participate in a fundraiser or volunteer, but you can and should require them to pay their fair share.

After a former Board member attempted to require every family to participate in a fundraiser and would not allow families to "buy out", I drafted my association's fundraising and volunteer policies:

Annual Fundraiser
XXXX offers candy bars for sale at registration. Information on the program is provided at registration. Every family has the option to participate in the fundraiser by purchasing candy bars or “buying out” of the fundraiser by paying a predetermined amount established by XXXX’s Board of Directors. The purpose of the fundraiser is to reduce the cost of hockey participation to each family. Families who elect not to participate in the fundraiser, and, instead choose the “buy out” option are self-funding the full cost of their family’s registration fees. All money collected from fundraisers go directly into the XXXX program to be used for equipment, coaches training, ice time, long-term projects, and programs to enhance XXXX. Fundraisers help to keep fees down.

Volunteerism
Families have the option to volunteer at least 10 hours during each season or donate $300 to XXXX. During the season XXXX hosts invitational hockey tournaments as selected by the Board of Directors prior to the start of the season. Proceeds from the tournaments go directly into XXXX’s general fund and help offset the costs for every skater. Families who elect to volunteer in lieu of donating $300 to XXXX must volunteer a minimum of 5 hours during a tournament (regardless of how many skaters are in a given family). Shifts involve the time clock, scorekeeper, penalty boxes, locker room coordinator, ticket sales, t-shirt and souvenir sales, etc. Time will be scheduled, validated, and accounted for by the Director of Volunteerism.

In addition to volunteering a total of 5 hours during a tournament, each family who elects the volunteer option must volunteer 5 additional hours performing duties that are assigned to the family by a team member, coach, or a Board member. Every family has the right to “buy out” and not volunteer by donating $300 to XXXX. Families who elect to volunteer must provide XXXX with a $300 check at registration. XXXX will not cash the check unless the family fails to fulfill its volunteer requirements. At the end of the season, but in no case after the annual meeting, the Board of Directors will return to each family who satisfies their volunteer requirement the family’s uncashed $300 check. Likewise, each family who chooses to donate $300 to XXXX in lieu of volunteering must provide XXXX with a $300 check at registration.

One head coach per team, up to three assistant coaches per team, one team manager per team, and all Board of Directors are exempted from the volunteer requirement. Further, Board members who serve their full 2-year term are permanently exempted from any volunteer service, as is any member of their family.

[seek & destroy]

The comment that people who write checks are "lazy" is offensive. People have either talent or treasure to contribute to any organization. If folks are willing to write checks, that doesn't mean they are lazy.

Totally agree with you and certainly did not mean to offend people who are willing to pay there fair share. I am a big believer that you should always offer a "buyout" for the person who does not have time to do the fundraiser. Many of the old types of fundraisers went directly to the association and everyone shared in the reduced cost (golf tournaments, hosting hockey tournaments etc.). That was unfair because it was usually a small amount of people doing all the work.

Many of the new types of fundraisers do go directly to the individual (calendar sales, candy sales, pizza sales etc.). Those types of fundraisers work great because only the people who do the work get the benefit. Offering a "buyout" to everyone else makes it fair across the board.

You and I have no argument except maybe your passage of the board members getting out of it. Board positions should be strictly volunteering not a 'paid' position no matter what the payment type is.

[DMom]

we went back to raffles. I have three kids playing hockey, we paid for almost $400 in raffle tickets. I wrote them off on my taxes as gambling dollars, although I would consult your tax accountant before doing that yourselves. (Elliott?) I think a forward looking association could "raffle" off everyone's ice bills, but I don't suppose Uncle Sam would like that. I think we should just mandatorily sell pulltabs at registration, than at least the payout would be immediate and it'd be kind of fun too. If we had it at MM we could have beer while we did it. hmmm.

HISaC, good for you. You recognized the work of the board without ill will. I think you'd get more and more volunteers for your board that way.

[InigoMontoya]

You and I have no argument except maybe your passage of the board members getting out of it. Board positions should be strictly volunteering not a 'paid' position no matter what the payment type is.

HISaC, good for you. You recognized the work of the board without ill will. I think you'd get more and more volunteers for your board that way.

I have to agree with S&D. Allow a number of volunteer hours for board members while they're on the board - like coaches, they are going to work more hours than they'll ever get credit for - but I think to some members the lifetime exemption will smell a bit like legislators who give themselves a raise during a budget deficit year.

[HockeyDad41]

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[Whatthe]

That sounds like your team budget, not the association budget.

[hockeydad]

Our association has had the same three fundraisers for years. Two of them start at the beginning of the season and one is ongoing throughout. When you register, you are given the choice of participating in the fundraiser or buying out. It is explained that the fundraisers are to raise money to purchase ice time, and without the fundraisers, the players registration fees would go up. When you are 1-given the choice up front, and 2-told what the reason is for the fundraisers, a lot of the objections go away.

It also helped that I spent two years on the board and saw the financial benefits of the fundraisers.

Over 17 years with the association, I've done it both ways. I've bought out and I've sold more than my share of frozen pizzas. In my final years, a co-worker who also had a kid in the association figured out a "best of both worlds" arrangment. She paid the buyout and I reimbursed her for half of it, then she sold half of my share of the pizza sale. It worked out well.

But you know what... I no longer have any hockey players, and I did not miss those frozen pizzas last fall.... not one bit.

[HockeyDad41]

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[hockey_is_a_choice]

HockeyDad41,

My guess is the additional revenue is necessary to pay Association-related expenses. There is a certain amount of overhead that must be covered, e.g., office supplies, computers, software, professional fees (accounting and legal), property insurance (beyond USAH insurance premiums), jackets for Board members (they need to look good ), advertising, scholarships, bad debt, dryland facility, donations to the local public high school teams, etc. In addition, many Associations subsidize their mite programs and the mandatory coaches' certification programs.

All in all, although I'm fiscally conservative, in my humble opinion, the $200 fundraising/buyout fee is reasonable. As for the team fee and expenses, do you ever wonder what happens to the team pucks each player is billed for? What about the water bottles?