playing time?

[puckboy]

How does your associations handle equal playing time. How should parents react if their child is not receiving their fair share.

[SuperStar]

Not sure how most associations handle that. But if my kids aren't playing well or good enough, they should be sitting....And I have personally called the coach a couple times to tell them to sit my kid at certain times.

NO WAY IN HELL am I going waste my time, money and effort to watch my kid take a dump on the ice during the games. But I hear parents whine all the time about their kid not getting enough playing time...Well, get the kid better. Spend 80-100 hours of developmental training in the off-season, do whatever it takes (IF the kid wants to get better) to help the boy/girl out.

Playing time is a privledge, not a right.

[GoGophersGuy]

See below, best post I have seen on it from last year. Wish I knew who to give credit to as I do not.

It seems that every year about this time we start hearing about playing time issues on teams. Moms and Dads who worry way to much about their kids feelings start making noise around the rink and the next thing you know players attitudes get worse, the team gets worse and nobody is happy. Oh, of course they were thrilled when their little guy made the best team even though he was a 'bubble' player. But, about this time, they want more than to just be on the best team; they want to be on the best line on the best team and, just in case they aren't, they want to make sure the coaches play everyone equally.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for relatively equal playing time for most levels of youth hockey (B & C teams and all Squirt teams) but at the top levels, Bantam A, B1 and Peewee A, there has to be a point where you start teaching the kids about playing on a 'team' and not about individual playing time. The best associations recognize this and their teams have great success because the coaches, players and parents know that playing time will be fair, not equal, and they all except and support that. I've also seen some coaches who shorten the bench all the time and never work with certain kids at practices on learning skills necessary for the game. Associations need to identify these coaches and get rid of them. The best coaches make every effort to make sure they are teaching all of the kids every facet of the game. The part that most parents can't understand is that one facet of the game is teaching them about being a good teammate and understanding their role on the team. I really believe that most kids are okay with this whole playing time issue until they get in the car after the game and the parents are grilling them with questions about why they weren't playing as much. After enough grilling sessions a kid is bound to start feeling like he is a failure because his parents aren't happy. Gradually his attitude gets bad and starts to poison the entire team. What the parent doesn't know is that maybe the kid felt great coming out of the locker room because the coach pumped him up about a great shift he had or something else that helped the 'team' have success. All of that positive energy goes down the crapper because these parents think a good stopwatch is more important than good coaching skills.

On every team, there are players who are better at certain things than others and I think it is important that kids and their parents learn that that's okay. Every kid should feel that if they work hard and improve their skills enough, they may earn those chances but they should also learn that it is okay, for now, that someone else is better at it and be willing to root for the 'teams' success. A good coach will work with everyone on all skills at practice but at critical times in games, a good 'team' player will WANT the best kids on the ice to try and win the game. That may be the little guy whose good around the net or the big guy who can play physical and block shots...it should depend on the game situation and the coaches decision (not on how much time player A has played compared to player B). Otherwise, why even have a coach. Just let someone open the gate and let the kids out and have another person there to run the stopwatches.

The biggest difference on playing time typically revolves around powerplays and penalty kill situations and it really works the parents up when there kid is not a part of it. At the highest levels, these are also the critical points of the game and usually make the difference between winning and losing. Isn't youth hockey a great place to teach kids that the 'team' should come first? I am tired of hearing parents complain about their kid not being on the powerplay or penalty kill in a critical game situation when they know that their kid is not the best player for that situation. Do you want your kids to fail? Do you want the team to lose? Do you want your kid to be the reason your team lost? I've seen fantastic teams get destroyed because for one weekend a coach tried moving some different kids onto the powerplay line. The parents whose kids were moved off it couldn't deal with it and let it get the better of them. A week later the team unity that had been worked on for nearly 3 months was gone and the team was destined for failure. What life lesson have you taught the kids then?

Again, the best coaches will find times to let every kid play in powerplay or penalty kill situations (at practice and in games where you have a lead) but I think it is important that kids learn to deal with, and accept, the fact that there are others who may be better than them at certain things, for now. Hopefully these kids are stronger at some other skill and will have their chances. If not, hopefully they will want to work hard to get better so they can earn their way into those places. Our society is so busy making sure that we don't do anything to hurt a kids feelings (ie. everyone gets a trophy, everyone's a 'winner', etc.) that we have created kids who aren't prepared for the real world that is ahead for them. Hard work, good effort, patience and being a team player is ultimately how you have success in this world and the sport of hockey can teach kids that if the parents will let it.

Go Blaine!
Go Gophers!
Go Wild!

[muckandgrind]

Depends on which age group you are talking about...Squirts should always get equal playing time...Bantams don't have to.

[Vapor]

I agree Go Gophs Guy...well stated post. Why do we let the kid that doesn't put in the time, his/her parents whine, have the same playing time. That is NOT the way it works in life, should some slacker get a promotion just because he/she shows up for work, but doesn't work hard? No. I know it's just a game, but it is life prep as well and hard work and dedication should be rewarded.

[Lowstickside]

Try this: teach all of the kids special teams play and every other facet of the game possible. Then, during close "must win' situations, play your best players. When you are winning or losing big, you play the kids you left off of the ice during the previous situation. This way, all kids can learn special teams play during games, and "all" players can learn that there is a situation that is the right fit for them. Why keep playing/overplaying your #1 unit when your killing someone?

Superstar, I can tell that your a good guy, but many kids just want to play for fun and sitting on the bench because you did not train all summer is a bit counterproductive to why these kids are on the team. It's a game and they want to play. So what if you lose a few games. Does anyone remember the games lost last year or the year before. I'm embarrased when I remember back on how serious I was at times during what are now just meaningless games.

Play and play hard. Have fun, and if a kid is not a great player, then so what? What good will not playing do for anyone? Some coaches are into the ego thing or think they will be the next big coaching genious. They need to get over themselves and figure out a way to include all of the players and create an environment which will get the kids to perform consistantly at their highest level while having a good time.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Superstar what level are you referring too as your example? Kids do not comprehend the concept of "work" until the age of 13. Below that they are "floating" for a million reasons. Uncertain about the situation at hand, confused, bored, tired, hungry, rather be someplace else just to name a few. What oldtimers called work was stacking wood, hay bails, chores hockey was a game to be enjoyable competition without the overzealous dad staring behind the glass. I feel bad for today's youth hockey players.
Good programs build 3 lines and let em play and compete. Learning to compete and become successful require repitition and years to develop as the curve is a bit different in all athletes.

[GoGophersGuy]

"Kids do not comprehend the concept of "work" until the age of 13."

Ha. Wow. Where did you pull this from? Pretty sure its dependent on the upbringing.

[SuperStar]

High School Varsity & PeeWees. I am quite sure I didn't say anything about "work" as in a regular adult paying job - if thats what your referring too..

I am talking about Hockey. They (my 2 kids) better put forth a 100% effort every game. It's not alot to ask considering the amount of time, money and energy I put into something they like to do..

Are you telling me you can't expect a 13 and up year old kid to perform at his/her best for 15 minutes during a game..? If you break it down a average forward plays about 15 ACTUAL minutes during a game, maybe less. 15 minutes x 26 games at varsity = 6.5 hours of actual game time the WHOLE season. If my kid can't go 100% for 6.5 hours over 4 months...Yeah, they better get bench!

[SuperStar]

Or quit and play club pond hockey with thier buddies...

[GoGophersGuy]

High School Varsity & PeeWees. I am quite sure I didn't say anything about "work" as in a regular adult paying job - if thats what your referring too..

I am talking about Hockey. They (my 2 kids) better put forth a 100% effort every game. It's not alot to ask considering the amount of time, money and energy I put into something they like to do..

Are you telling me you can't expect a 13 and up year old kid to perform at his/her best for 15 minutes during a game..? If you break it down a average forward plays about 15 ACTUAL minutes during a game, maybe less. 15 minutes x 26 games at varsity = 6.5 hours of actual game time the WHOLE season. If my kid can't go 100% for 6.5 hours over 4 months...Yeah, they better get bench!

Im pretty sure I know what you mean by "work". Work hard/effort. Why would I associate this to me as "Work a Job", they are 12 and 13 year old kids, are you kidding me?

My point was where did you get your info about the age of 13 being the point where they figure it out or dont. I was just saying that that point is dependent on the parent and upbringing. Some kids get it at 10, others dont till 16. There is no "13" or right number fot that.

[SuperStar]

Triple G - Thanks for the note, but my reply was intending for Northwoods Oldtimer...

[jancze5]

Considering that youth hockey is a sport that you PAY TO PLAY, and nobody involved is getting paid (coach, players). All teams should roll the lines and let the cards fall where they may.

If you're not going to roll the lines, then charge the 3rd line and 2nd goalie half the price, tap their cost onto the 1st line and 1st goalie who are going to get more ice time, thus should PAY more for that ice time.

It's fairly simple. If you have a player that you don't trust to play, don't pick his asss for your team, simple as that.

[northwoods oldtimer]

The information comes from Tom Malloy who I happen to know and respect greatly. He has done some outstanding work with youth development in Canada, Europe and United States and has written some excellant books on coaching hockey. The question was asked on a discussion forum regarding level of play as the original post was bit vague. Again 100% of an adults expectation does not equate in a youth frame of mind they do not have the life experience to meet that expectation and their bodies are developing mentally and physically. For youth as opposed to adults the heart rates are different muscle development is different, growth rate is different, coordination is different. Wise coaches factor all that into account and ike jance sates roll the kids evenly. It is my opinion you are better off an so is your the youth program for doing such. You boys seem a bit angry for a discussion board.

[SuperStar]

I appreciate the argument and I respect that. But if your gonna play on a "A" caliber team or at a high level - whats wrong with expecting high expectations for a short period of time..?

Regardless of Muscle/Mental growth - I am not asking them to play at a higher level than they are capable...Give a 100% effort, do your best or don't play on a high level team - If you good enough to get picked - your good enough to give 100% effort.

[keepyourheadup]

As a player, coach and parent this is likely the toughest question to answer. I'm not sure that I can agree with the concept of always rolling your lines equally. I do believe that a coach can make up for "short shifting" by making sure he/she sits his horses down when the situation allows others to play more. I saw both extremes this weekend at the bantam level. I witnessed a team that rolled their lines right through powerplays and another that played maybe 10 kids for 95% of their 5 games. My guess is the answer is somewhere in between. As a coach you can usually sense when a player is unsure or hesitant to be in a situation that may cost his team a game. Not all kids want to take on this responsibility, especially at the bantam level when peer pressure and self esteem are added to the situation. With the demands of so many differing viewpoints I take my hat off to those coaches that make it work.

[zboni99]

Jancze5 - I could not agree with you more.

A lot of times, kids on the 3rd line are not getting shorted because of effort and they are not SLACKERS 3G. They are getting shorted by the coach for the sake of shorting the bench.

If it means win and play more or go home that's one thing, but otherwise roll it.

The coaches should be playing the kids to get them ready for Feb. and March, not for next weeks "Let's play Hockey" rankings.

[GoGophersGuy]

If you're not going to roll the lines, then charge the 3rd line and 2nd goalie half the price, tap their cost onto the 1st line and 1st goalie who are going to get more ice time, thus should PAY more for that ice time


Here is a really good thing. "Hey Johnny, if I pay more for hockey you will play more."

This misses the point.

[jancze5]

No, it doesn't, it is exactly the point.

You PAY to play youth sports. Winning and shortening benches is the norm in almost all cases, but the norm but is NOT what you pay for.

It's simple rationalization if you really consider it.

[muckandgrind]

Considering that youth hockey is a sport that you PAY TO PLAY, and nobody involved is getting paid (coach, players). All teams should roll the lines and let the cards fall where they may.

If you're not going to roll the lines, then charge the 3rd line and 2nd goalie half the price, tap their cost onto the 1st line and 1st goalie who are going to get more ice time, thus should PAY more for that ice time.

It's fairly simple. If you have a player that you don't trust to play, don't pick his asss for your team, simple as that.

,

Coaches don't always have a say in who makes their teams.

Many coaches will say that all special teams spots are earned in practice and if you don't play on special teams, that can really cut down on the number of minutes you get in a game...especially in games with lots of penalties called.

[fromthecrease]

It's the players game. When a parent steps in and raises a concern about ice time they are getting involved in and, in essence, fighting the players battle. The life lessons that are learned being part of a team and playing sports is about being accountable for your actions, but also being able to communicate with an authority figure in order to better understand what is needed of them.

Playing time typically becomes an issue in peewees, shouldn't at squirts. As a first year bantam I struggled to adjust and found myself on the bench quite a bit the first half of the season, did my dad step in a bitch, heck no. He looked at me and said do something about, talk to your coach, ask questions, work harder than before, ultimately it came down to how bad I wanted to play and what was I willing to do to get there. I was all of 13 years of age.

Bottom line is the sport is for the players, as parents we are spectators that provide our children the opportunity. It is not our place to fight these battles for them, 99% of the time they know exactly why they aren't out on the ice they just don't like the answer, its up to us as parents to help them figure out how to get out there more, not do it for them. The communication needs to be between you and your child, not you to the coach, then your kid finds out about it.

If ice time is your major concern, don't tryout for 'A' teams, just go ahead and play 'C' where the lines get rolled right on through. But if your kid wants to play at a high level or into high school he better start learning how to figure these things out now or it will just continue to be a point of complaining and blaming instead of doing.

When it comes down to money, a fifty game schedule will result in 4-8 hours of ice missed over a year, if he gets benched every game, IF, and if he is getting that every game and your team is a full 17 players and a teams half of the ice cost is $150 per game including referees, each players fee is $9 per game/hour. So your a bitching about $40-$80 dollars over the course of 4 months, please. That money won't even buy you a hockey stick these days.

[DMom]

It's the players game. When a parent steps in and raises a concern about ice time they are getting involved in and, in essence, fighting the players battle. The life lessons that are learned being part of a team and playing sports is about being accountable for your actions, but also being able to communicate with an authority figure in order to better understand what is needed of them.

Playing time typically becomes an issue in peewees, shouldn't at squirts. As a first year bantam I struggled to adjust and found myself on the bench quite a bit the first half of the season, did my dad step in a bitch, heck no. He looked at me and said do something about, talk to your coach, ask questions, work harder than before, ultimately it came down to how bad I wanted to play and what was I willing to do to get there. I was all of 13 years of age.

Bottom line is the sport is for the players, as parents we are spectators that provide our children the opportunity. It is not our place to fight these battles for them, 99% of the time they know exactly why they aren't out on the ice they just don't like the answer, its up to us as parents to help them figure out how to get out there more, not do it for them. The communication needs to be between you and your child, not you to the coach, then your kid finds out about it.

If ice time is your major concern, don't tryout for 'A' teams, just go ahead and play 'C' where the lines get rolled right on through. But if your kid wants to play at a high level or into high school he better start learning how to figure these things out now or it will just continue to be a point of complaining and blaming instead of doing.

When it comes down to money, a fifty game schedule will result in 4-8 hours of ice missed over a year, if he gets benched every game, IF, and if he is getting that every game and your team is a full 17 players and a teams half of the ice cost is $150 per game including referees, each players fee is $9 per game/hour. So your a bitching about $40-$80 dollars over the course of 4 months, please. That money won't even buy you a hockey stick these days.

I think you've hit the thin line that a coach has to walk. I agree that at the Squirt level there should never be a question, roll the lines. They are there to learn the game. I know of a squirt coach who, on a C squirt team, sat kids all but one shift in the last period. Red-iculous. I fully agree that it is not up to mom and dad to step in. That's when everything gets messed up, and, it's like that age where you hand your kid the money at the concession stand and make them ask for what they want, there comes a point in a kid's life where asking what they can do to get more playing time is a life lesson. Unless you want them living at home until they are 30 because everyone at work is "unfair" to them, or because "they don't get the good jobs or projects".

[muckandgrind]

It's the players game. When a parent steps in and raises a concern about ice time they are getting involved in and, in essence, fighting the players battle. The life lessons that are learned being part of a team and playing sports is about being accountable for your actions, but also being able to communicate with an authority figure in order to better understand what is needed of them.

Playing time typically becomes an issue in peewees, shouldn't at squirts. As a first year bantam I struggled to adjust and found myself on the bench quite a bit the first half of the season, did my dad step in a bitch, heck no. He looked at me and said do something about, talk to your coach, ask questions, work harder than before, ultimately it came down to how bad I wanted to play and what was I willing to do to get there. I was all of 13 years of age.

Bottom line is the sport is for the players, as parents we are spectators that provide our children the opportunity. It is not our place to fight these battles for them, 99% of the time they know exactly why they aren't out on the ice they just don't like the answer, its up to us as parents to help them figure out how to get out there more, not do it for them. The communication needs to be between you and your child, not you to the coach, then your kid finds out about it.

If ice time is your major concern, don't tryout for 'A' teams, just go ahead and play 'C' where the lines get rolled right on through. But if your kid wants to play at a high level or into high school he better start learning how to figure these things out now or it will just continue to be a point of complaining and blaming instead of doing.

When it comes down to money, a fifty game schedule will result in 4-8 hours of ice missed over a year, if he gets benched every game, IF, and if he is getting that every game and your team is a full 17 players and a teams half of the ice cost is $150 per game including referees, each players fee is $9 per game/hour. So your a bitching about $40-$80 dollars over the course of 4 months, please. That money won't even buy you a hockey stick these days.

I think you've hit the thin line that a coach has to walk. I agree that at the Squirt level there should never be a question, roll the lines. They are there to learn the game. I know of a squirt coach who, on a C squirt team, sat kids all but one shift in the last period. Red-iculous. I fully agree that it is not up to mom and dad to step in. That's when everything gets messed up, and, it's like that age where you hand your kid the money at the concession stand and make them ask for what they want, there comes a point in a kid's life where asking what they can do to get more playing time is a life lesson. Unless you want them living at home until they are 30 because everyone at work is "unfair" to them, or because "they don't get the good jobs or projects".

That coach should be fired.

When my older son was a 1st year Bantam, he started out on the 3rd line and the coach didn't play the 3rd line as much as the 1st two. That was his first experience with missing shifts. Initially, he was pretty dejected about it. But I told him to go out there and work his tail off and he'll get more ice time. Which he did. I stayed completely out of it...although, as a parent, you want to stick up for your child in situations like that...it's best not to. Let the player and the coach figure it out.

[GoGophersGuy]

"When my older son was a 1st year Bantam, he started out on the 3rd line and the coach didn't play the 3rd line as much as the 1st two. That was his first experience with missing shifts. Initially, he was pretty dejected about it. But I told him to go out there and work his tail off and he'll get more ice time. Which he did. I stayed completely out of it...although, as a parent, you want to stick up for your child in situations like that...it's best not to. Let the player and the coach figure it out."

This is a great example of a parent understanding how to let there kid learn a lesson in life. Also, if this kid saw some of this on his Peewee A team, he even would have been more prepared for it at Bantams. Great post here.

[nahc]

jancze5

This is exactly what is wrong with sports today, ie everyone plays, everyone receives a participation medal, etc. I totally agree that the younger skaters ie squirts/mites should roll the lines. When one gets into Pee Wees and Bantams at the B and A levels, it should be all about TEAM goals, not individual ones. With that said, it is the association responsibility to assure the right COACH is hired for the position. With the right person, a team can truly win and yet assure kids will see a lot of ice either against the really good teams or against those who they would be able to better compete. It should all even out during the year and produce a very positive, competative and winning atmosphere. Not all kids can compete against the top players from the other teams.......and putting them in that type of situation could certainly lead to setting the kids up for failure........which is a part of hockey......but should be minimized.......

Emphasis on TEAM, TEAM, TEAM..........not MY SON/DAUGHTER, MY SON/DAUGHTER, MY SON/DAUGHTER.......no matter how much fees are......