New AA Sections

[elliott70]

8AA
Roseau, Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks, Bemidji, Moorhead,
Brainerd, Fergus Falls

7AA
Intl Falls, Virginia, Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, Hermatnown, Duluth Marshall

6AA
St Cloud Tech, Apollo, Cathedral, Little Falls, Alexandria, Willmar, Sartell, Sauk Rapids

5AA
Anoka, Champlin Park, Osseo, Elk River, Blaine, Coon Rapids, White Bear Lake, Centennial

4AA
Maople Grove, Plymouth, Hopkins, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Chaska, Shakopee

3AA
Tartan, Stillwater, Roseville, Rosemount, Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Edina

2AA
Blake, Breck, STA, Hill, Benilde, AHA, Cretin, Lakeville North, Lakeville South

1AA
Mankato West, East, Faribault, Owatonna, Rocester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, Albert Lea, Red Wing





Or something like it.

[wbmd]

8AA
Roseau, Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks, Bemidji, Moorhead,
Brainerd, Fergus Falls

7AA
Intl Falls, Virginia, Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, Hermatnown, Duluth Marshall

6AA
St Cloud Tech, Apollo, Cathedral, Little Falls, Alexandria, Willmar, Sartell, Sauk Rapids

5AA
Anoka, Champlin Park, Osseo, Elk River, Blaine, Coon Rapids, White Bear Lake, Centennial

4AA
Maople Grove, Plymouth, Hopkins, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Chaska, Shakopee

3AA
Tartan, Stillwater, Roseville, Rosemount, Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Edina

2AA
Blake, Breck, STA, Hill, Benilde, AHA, Cretin, Lakeville North, Lakeville South

1AA
Mankato West, East, Faribault, Owatonna, Rocester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, Albert Lea, Red Wing





Or something like it.

Dream on. You're stuck with the current sections for at least another year.

Plus, I think we all know that STA will never be man enough to opt up to AA.

[pondyplayer93]

8AA
Roseau, Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks, Bemidji, Moorhead,
Brainerd, Fergus Falls

7AA
Intl Falls, Virginia, Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, Hermatnown, Duluth Marshall

6AA
St Cloud Tech, Apollo, Cathedral, Little Falls, Alexandria, Willmar, Sartell, Sauk Rapids

5AA
Anoka, Champlin Park, Osseo, Elk River, Blaine, Coon Rapids, White Bear Lake, Centennial

4AA
Maople Grove, Plymouth, Hopkins, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Chaska, Shakopee

3AA
Tartan, Stillwater, Roseville, Rosemount, Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Edina

2AA
Blake, Breck, STA, Hill, Benilde, AHA, Cretin, Lakeville North, Lakeville South

1AA
Mankato West, East, Faribault, Owatonna, Rocester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, Albert Lea, Red Wing





Or something like it.

i got two things

1. does jefferson and kennedy not play aa anymore?
2. you either hate private schools, or you are a fan of one of the teams in that week section 6aa or both

[O-townClown]

Was there a promotion and relegation like soccer leagues use in Europe?

[O-townClown]

The current sections make near-perfect geographic sense. The only fuzzy spot is that Anoka goes to NE Minnesota to join VII and Buffalo or someone goes to the NW to join VIII.



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[elliott70]

The current sections make near-perfect geographic sense. The only fuzzy spot is that Anoka goes to NE Minnesota to join VII and Buffalo or someone goes to the NW to join VIII.



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O, you better study your geography...

Anoka, Elk River, Andover, I don't think anyone would classify them as north anything in Minnesota....
St Francis, Forest Lake???

Monticello, Big Lake, Buffalo, St Cloud in northern Minnesota...????

[elliott70]

8AA
Roseau, Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks, Bemidji, Moorhead,
Brainerd, Fergus Falls

7AA
Intl Falls, Virginia, Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, Hermatnown, Duluth Marshall

6AA
St Cloud Tech, Apollo, Cathedral, Little Falls, Alexandria, Willmar, Sartell, Sauk Rapids

5AA
Anoka, Champlin Park, Osseo, Elk River, Blaine, Coon Rapids, White Bear Lake, Centennial

4AA
Maople Grove, Plymouth, Hopkins, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Chaska, Shakopee

3AA
Tartan, Stillwater, Roseville, Rosemount, Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Edina

2AA
Blake, Breck, STA, Hill, Benilde, AHA, Cretin, Lakeville North, Lakeville South

1AA
Mankato West, East, Faribault, Owatonna, Rocester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, Albert Lea, Red Wing





Or something like it.

i got two things

1. does jefferson and kennedy not play aa anymore?
2. you either hate private schools, or you are a fan of one of the teams in that week section 6aa or both

Forgot Jefferson, Kennedy should be in A.

I don't care where the private schools play, but a lot of posters seem to think this is how it should be.

And Warroad, Warroad, Warroad.
And last year Bemidji decided to play where their size dictated....

Holy Cow did people scream about that....

So I give you something to 'fix it' and that causes problems, well think about it folks.

[O-townClown]

Ellie, put the pins in a map and count until you get to 8 or 9 teams. You'll wind up crawling further south for VII and VIII because there just aren't enough large enrollment schools plus opt-ups.

Nearly perfect geographic sense, and I'll stand by that statement. Map it.

The problem is solved if Roseau splits into two schools, still plays AA, and others follow. Until then.... It isn't like the population flow is out of the Twin Cities and into the hinterland.

[Fargo]

Ellie, put the pins in a map and count until you get to 8 or 9 teams. You'll wind up crawling further south for VII and VIII because there just aren't enough large enrollment schools plus opt-ups.

Nearly perfect geographic sense, and I'll stand by that statement. Map it.

The problem is solved if Roseau splits into two schools, still plays AA, and others follow. Until then.... It isn't like the population flow is out of the Twin Cities and into the hinterland.

That would bite to play yourslf for the section championship

[elliott70]

Ellie, put the pins in a map and count until you get to 8 or 9 teams. You'll wind up crawling further south for VII and VIII because there just aren't enough large enrollment schools plus opt-ups.

Nearly perfect geographic sense, and I'll stand by that statement. Map it.

The problem is solved if Roseau splits into two schools, still plays AA, and others follow. Until then.... It isn't like the population flow is out of the Twin Cities and into the hinterland.

And there in lies the problem, we either except how MSHSL defines our system, we do something about it, or continue complaining whining about private schools and good small school programs in single A and except the sarcasm when it appears on the board.

"STA does not have the cahones to step up to AA."

[elliott70]

Ellie, put the pins in a map and count until you get to 8 or 9 teams. You'll wind up crawling further south for VII and VIII because there just aren't enough large enrollment schools plus opt-ups.

Nearly perfect geographic sense, and I'll stand by that statement. Map it.

The problem is solved if Roseau splits into two schools, still plays AA, and others follow. Until then.... It isn't like the population flow is out of the Twin Cities and into the hinterland.

That would bite to play yourslf for the section championship

nice

[Puckguy19]

Some of those rivalries make me long for the days of a one-class tournament. I know, it will never happen . . .

[elliott70]

Some of those rivalries make me long for the days of a one-class tournament. I know, it will never happen . . .

Good to have someone get it.

[MNsGreatest#2]

8AA
Roseau, Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks, Bemidji, Moorhead,
Brainerd, Fergus Falls

7AA
Intl Falls, Virginia, Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, Hermatnown, Duluth Marshall

6AA
St Cloud Tech, Apollo, Cathedral, Little Falls, Alexandria, Willmar, Sartell, Sauk Rapids

5AA
Anoka, Champlin Park, Osseo, Elk River, Blaine, Coon Rapids, White Bear Lake, Centennial

4AA
Maople Grove, Plymouth, Hopkins, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Chaska, Shakopee

3AA
Tartan, Stillwater, Roseville, Rosemount, Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Edina

2AA
Blake, Breck, STA, Hill, Benilde, AHA, Cretin, Lakeville North, Lakeville South

1AA
Mankato West, East, Faribault, Owatonna, Rocester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, Albert Lea, Red Wing





Or something like it.

Wow section 5aa will rise from the depths. Should be interesting next year. But will be very difficult for my Rebels. Especially since they lose 12 next year.

[mulefarm]

In the late 70's, George Larson, Brooklyn Center coach started the push for a 2 class system. His concept was very good and didn't want to take away from current state tournament. Besides enrollment as a criteria, he included tradition of program, numbers in youth program, success of youth program, success of high school program and facilities.(maybe a few more) Also, the A state tournament would have been at an outstste location. He had a point system for each, and when added up the top 64 were AA. It seemed fair and had room for movement between the classes. At the time, it also gave communities just starting a chance at post season. It really would have been good for hockey. The MNHSL only wanted to go by enrollment. They felt it would be too hard to administer for all their activities. If this would have been excepted, many of the co-op and weak AA teams would be A, and the top A teams would be AA. This will never happen was a very good concept.

[pondyplayer93]

so if you arent against private schools
then why do you have them all in the same section?

[O-townClown]

Mule, you say it was a good concept, but you cannot undertake a course of action that is next to impossible to administer. Teams would constantly be arguing their class assignment and so many of the criteria are fluid, subjective, or both. "Strength of youth program"?? C'mon.

Today's 2-class isn't bad, but there is one glaring flaw I see and that is that private schools have a large advantage in A over the normal small-enrollment public schools from places like Windom, Wadena, or Mora.

[the one to love]

forgot Eagan in 3AA. Edina should NOT be in there, they are too far west.

[Jbone]

where does Farmington go?

[the one to love]

probably 1AA

[PuckRanger]

Since the two class split in 1992, there is a HEAVY advantage to the northern schools and private schools when it comes down to the Class A state tournament. Only Red Wing and Orono have had any measurable success from a public school south of Fergus Falls.

Here is a list of the teams that finished in the top 3 since the two class split. Note that many of the Northern and Private schools have had multiple finishes in the top three.

Northern Schools:
Warroad, Hermantown, Greenway, Eveleth-Gilbert, International Falls, East Grand Forks, Hibbing, Proctor, Fergus Falls, Lake of the Woods

Private Schools:
Breck, Benilde-St. Margaret's, Totino-Grace, St. Thomas Academy, Duluth Marshall, Rochester Lourdes

South/Metro Schools:
Red Wing, Orono, Simley, Mahtomedi, Rosemount (Tier II), Henry-Sibley (Tier II)

To even further illustrate the domination, check out this graphic. Northern teams are blue, privates are in yellow; Duluth Marshall could be classified as both, but are considered private in this graphic.


There isn't much white in that graphic. Take out the tier II years and just FOUR different public schools south of Fergus Falls have finished in the top three in 14 years, and only ONE (Red Wing) has ever won it. I don't think the MSHSL or any proponent of the two class system had this in mind when it was created. There is no sign of any change of this trend in sight this year as the four seeded teams are all northern and private, along with unseeded Blake.

I think this alone is basis for change. I should also point out that Duluth East, Grand Rapids, Cloquet/Esko/Carlton, and Roseau could ALL opt down if they so chose. They are under the enrollment cut-off. Imagine if that were the case... There would be ZERO class AA teams north of Brainerd. That would also probably even further reduce any chance of a southern/metro public school winning the class A tournament.

I like Elliots sections. It would make for a much more competetive section playoff, unlike it is now where in most cases it only takes two quality games to get to the state tournament - and sometimes only one.

[wild77]

8AA
Roseau, Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks, Bemidji, Moorhead,
Brainerd, Fergus Falls

7AA
Intl Falls, Virginia, Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, Hermatnown, Duluth Marshall

6AA
St Cloud Tech, Apollo, Cathedral, Little Falls, Alexandria, Willmar, Sartell, Sauk Rapids

5AA
Anoka, Champlin Park, Osseo, Elk River, Blaine, Coon Rapids, White Bear Lake, Centennial

4AA
Maople Grove, Plymouth, Hopkins, Minnetonka, Wayzata, Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Chaska, Shakopee

3AA
Tartan, Stillwater, Roseville, Rosemount, Woodbury, Cottage Grove, Hastings, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Edina

2AA
Blake, Breck, STA, Hill, Benilde, AHA, Cretin, Lakeville North, Lakeville South

1AA
Mankato West, East, Faribault, Owatonna, Rocester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, Albert Lea, Red Wing





Or something like it.

I am all for it. How do we get it done? How about a new rule? If you are a single A team and have made the State Tournament 2 times in 3 years you must "opt" up to AA for 3 years. Isn't the intent of the split to give ALL small schools a chance to play in the big dance? Besides, where will these teams like Duluth Marshall and Hermantown hang all the Section Final and State Tournament Participant banners?

[newSPUDfan]

I should also point out that Duluth East, Grand Rapids, Cloquet/Esko/Carlton, and Roseau could ALL opt down if they so chose. They are under the enrollment cut-off. Imagine if that were the case... There would be ZERO class AA teams north of Brainerd.

When did Moorhead move south of Brainerd?

[mulefarm]

Yeah, it would have been harder to administer, but I don't think it was that subjective. # of player in youth program, #of indoor ice sheets, state youth tournament results, h.s. results, school enrollment. I think if, as now, it could be reviewed and assignments could be made every 2 yrs. This concept was before there was as many strong private schools and this would have had to be resolved. Not saying this was a savior plan, just one I think made a lot of sense to hockey people.

[netminder.net]

In the late 70's, George Larson, Brooklyn Center coach

A very underatted "hockey guy". Not many worked as hard as he, with waht he had to work with.