Fairness.....

extracheeseplease · Post by **extracheeseplease** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:10 pm

Need some input from all you hockey people out there...new to forum and need advice...thought i'd go straight to the "experts" on this one. Having some problems with the coaching staff, feel our player is not being treated fairly, no communication as to what he/she is doing wrong, to the point of complete discouragement and frustration and don't know what to do. Just asking for some fairness here not special treatment. Help me with this one. Do we continue to let it slide hoping things will change or speak up? Been warned not to say anything or kid would be benched for season. Dreams have been completely shattered. I understand politics drive hockey but let's be reasonable. As the saying goes, "don't quit your day job" but he/she just wants to see the ice sometimes. I realize we don't have NHL material here but passion for the game should count for something. Please advise. Give it to me straight.

rams1989 · Post by **rams1989** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:25 pm

If you're talking High School player, which I can only assume you are, my advise is to have the player talk to the coach in private and simply ask him.

I would bet there is a reason for it, he just doesn't communicate it very well.

SB24 · Post by **SB24** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:26 pm

Well, based on the somewhat vague information you gave (age, playing level, etc), here is my advise. With all of the complaining from parents (some warranted, some not) that coaches have to put up with, your best bet would be to talk to your child and leave the coach alone. Now if it is something totally off the wall and inexcusable i would think there would be a youth hockey board or something like that to hear your concerns. But for different issues, try to help your kid. Make sure he/she is working as hard as possible, doing the right things, and (most important) keeping a good attitude. More often than not, the attitude of the kid reflects the attitude of the parents. Tell him to keep his chin up and work hard, the playing time will come. Good Luck.

TheCrease · Post by **TheCrease** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:32 pm

Agree with "rams" and "SB".
If this is at the HS level, it is important for your child to approach the coach and for you to stay behind the scenes. I know how hard this is - been there, but at the HS level it's time for the kids to stand on thier own 2 feet and face issues - builds a litte character.
Good Luck - Hang in there!

suntzu · Post by **suntzu** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:40 pm

You're looking for "fairness" yet is seems that you admit your child may not be a very strong player. Your reference to "passion for the game" counting for something is interesting. I'm in no way trying to be disrespectful as we all want what is best for our children, but perhaps it is your passion for the game that you are thinking of.

My guess is that your child knows exactly why he is not receiving playing time but won't discuss it honestly with you because it would hurt your feelings. Again, no disrespect, but many, many kids just won't tell their folks the truth as they know it because they feel it would be hurtful to the parent.

I don't know a single high school coach in this state (and I know a great many of them) that would choose not to play a deserving player just for the heck of it. These coaches are trying to win games and develop their hockey team over the course of the season. If they just decided to roll four lines and three sets of D and alternate their goalies...well, they'd lose their coaching jobs in a hurry.

hockeygod · Post by **hockeygod** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:56 pm

WOW...first of all I have to say that I feel for you and your son whatever his age.

Coaches don't intentionally not play kids but they do tend to play favorites.

I say go to the coaches and ask what he has to do to get more playing time and demand an answer from the coach. if the coach gives him an answer like get better, or beat someone out for his spot then he's not much of a coach.

If the coach say he wants your son to work on his shot or work with an assistant on something tangeble, then he's a real development guy who is commited to his team getting better. This is a chance for you to figure out the quality of the coach by the answer he gives and maybe the coach or your son needs a different situation.

What I have been seeing alot in high school coaching is some real nice people with great intentions but the coaches lack the skills to teach what they know.

tomASS · Post by **tomASS** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:03 pm

hockeygod wrote:WOW...first of all I have to say that I feel for you and your son whatever his age.

Coaches don't intentionally not play kids but they do tend to play favorites.

I say go to the coaches and ask what he has to do to get more playing time and demand an answer from the coach. if the coach gives him an answer like get better, or beat someone out for his spot then he's not much of a coach.

If the coach say he wants your son to work on his shot or work with an assistant on something tangeble, then he's a real development guy who is commited to his team getting better. This is a chance for you to figure out the quality of the coach by the answer he gives and maybe the coach or your son needs a different situation.

What I have been seeing alot in high school coaching is some real nice people with great intentions but the coaches lack the skills to teach what they know.

It has to be the player that approaches the coach. Parents should not stick their nose in it at the HS level. Like all the advice from SB rams and suntzu.

Sun hits on a key - the kid knows, usually doesn't want to take responsibility or fears negative reactions from parents

theref · Post by **theref** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:16 pm

I don't agree. I feel there are many players who are not favorites or may not be superstars, so they do not get to play. Now, if a kid is absolutely horrible, then he wouldn't be on varsity. I've seen many hard working individuals get passed over. Tell your son to ask the coach himself as this will teach him a lesson about speaking up, but tell him to do it in a respectful manner. If things don't change, there are always other avenues such as the outdoor rink or Junior Gold or whatever. Sometimes playing for a lesser team also means getting to play. If you realize that the dream of the NHL or college is not a possibility, why not pursue other avenues that keep your kid on the ice and not on the bench.

extracheeseplease · Post by **extracheeseplease** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:24 pm

Well, all i want is the truth........i have never run from that...if my kid is screwing up, not putting forth effort, has a bad attitude, then he dosen't deserve to play...and it may very well be that he is not telling us everything. But, in this situation I don't believe this is happening. I know all of you are thinking another parent with their head buried in the sandbox. I am not delusional......and I don't jump on every bandwagon with my kid. Never have, never will. He has come up through the ranks and worked to get there. It has never been an easy road for him. When you are a no-name in town, you have nothing but sheer will and determination to get you to where you want to go. Yes, i agree he needs to be patient and work hard, give it his all, maintain a good attitude but when is it time to speak up? I hear alot of you say shut up. Why? If a parent asks for the truth and is respectful to the coach upon approaching them, then why does it hurt to ask a question? I'm entrusting this coach with the greatest thing I have. My child. And, if he can look me in the eye and tell me why he is doing what he is doing, and that it is for my son's betterment than I will shut up and sit down.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:27 pm

Suntzu-

As in Orono you play the better players and you still get fired. So apparently at Orono they encourage 4 lines and 6 defenseman.

Right?

suntzu · Post by **suntzu** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:36 pm

extracheeseplease wrote:Well, all i want is the truth........i have never run from that...if my kid is screwing up, not putting forth effort, has a bad attitude, then he dosen't deserve to play...and it may very well be that he is not telling us everything. But, in this situation I don't believe this is happening. I know all of you are thinking another parent with their head buried in the sandbox. I am not delusional......and I don't jump on every bandwagon with my kid. Never have, never will. He has come up through the ranks and worked to get there. It has never been an easy road for him. When you are a no-name in town, you have nothing but sheer will and determination to get you to where you want to go. Yes, i agree he needs to be patient and work hard, give it his all, maintain a good attitude but when is it time to speak up? I hear alot of you say shut up. Why? If a parent asks for the truth and is respectful to the coach upon approaching them, then why does it hurt to ask a question? I'm entrusting this coach with the greatest thing I have. My child. And, if he can look me in the eye and tell me why he is doing what he is doing, and that it is for my son's betterment than I will shut up and sit down.

Extracheese - If you are respectful to the coach and accepting of his response then there is not a problem. However, I think we both know that this is not the approach that 95% of parents in this situation take - so obviously the coach will have his guard up. My advice would still be to make sure your child has approached the coach first. If you are not satisfied with the response the coach gives your son, then ask for a meeting. But assuming we are talking about a high school player here, the player has to approach the coach first.

A quick question - what year in school is your son?

Tigers33 - Orono is a unique situation. The school administration is allowing the parents (in all sports) to destroy their athletic program. A real shame.

shoot to thrill · Post by **shoot to thrill** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:39 pm

First, talk to your kid and explain that life isn't always fair. Life lessons are always hard to learn but this is one that they should start understanding at H.S. age.

Second, I assume you are talking about H.S. hockey so I would agree with the others regarding having your kid do the talking with the coach. The discussion should not center on 'fairness' but should be about what is the coach looking for from him as a player. Coaches will usually play a player they think will help the team so there must be something that the coach isn't seeing in your player. Have him find out what it is and work on getting better at it.

Third, it is possible that the coach is just a jerk who doesn't deal well with kids. If that's the case, help your kid to understand that some people are that way and convince him to try to have a fun season being a part of the team whether he plays or not.

AngusYoung · Post by **AngusYoung** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:53 pm

Simple answer - that's life. Fair - no. If you want fair, go to St. Paul in September - it's the best "Fair" there is. I used to think it was the sport of hockey that treats individuals in this manner, but have come to understand that the game of hockey is simply a microcosm of life as a whole, albeit perhaps ramped up a bit more in hockey. It isn't much different from many other things that will happen to your son as he progresses through his life. From jobs(it is not always the most qualifed that gets ahead) to relationships we all go through the motions as best we can negotiate with some reaching the upper echelon and some scraping the bottom of the barrel with most in the middle. Try to keep a perspective on the situation, it is after all just High School hockey. As long as the kid is having some fun, making some friends, getting some exercise, and learning some life lessons its all going to be OK. I'm sure it's not easy to watch and stand by on the sidelines, but again, perspective is key. If the coach is physically or verbally abusing someone, that is another matter entirely. All in all, I think it's much harder for the adults to go through than it is for the kids.

AY

extracheeseplease · Post by **extracheeseplease** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:56 pm

he's a sophomore...............

The tender30 · Post by **The tender30** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:57 pm

is he on varsity or jv?

extracheeseplease · Post by **extracheeseplease** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:04 pm

varisty..........i know i know.....be patient!

The Best 4th Liner · Post by **The Best 4th Liner** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:04 pm

If you havent learned by now hockey is a game not a game of fairness its a game of strategy and politics.

lampthelight · Post by **lampthelight** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:06 pm

extracheeseplease wrote:varisty..........i know i know.....be patient!

He's a sophomore on varsity.... Is he playing some JV as well or is he strictly varsity?

The Best 4th Liner · Post by **The Best 4th Liner** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:07 pm

and if anyone plans on talking to the coach dont let it be the parents. Only leads to conflict and the coach hating your son more. If the kid goes in and talks to him, tells him how he feels I guarentee the coach will have a lot more respect for the kid. Maybe not more ice time but I am sure he will get as close to the most truthful awnser the coach has that way.

The tender30 · Post by **The tender30** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:07 pm

if he doesent play alot on varsity, then does he also play jv or does he just play varsity? only because if that is the case where he only plays varsity and doesent get alot of ice time then the coach is not a very good coach for not having him also play jv to develop his skills and get some good ice time

extracheeseplease · Post by **extracheeseplease** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:07 pm

strictly varisty

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:08 pm

Starting sophmore goalies are a rare bunch. If your kid is benched in favor of a different sophmore, a freshman, or a really poor junior goalie, I think your concern might have merit. However, many high school coaches will give the nod to a senior tender because they figure with age comes poise.

Let-the-KIDS-play · Post by **Let-the-KIDS-play** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:10 pm

FINALLY sombody has the right answer!!!!! angus and shoot to have nailed this one Perfect. What if little johnny is not feeling good about work?,Call mommy and Daddy they will make it better?When are we going to teach our kids that things can be tough! Fairness is such a stupid word!!!!Teach your kids to work hard and move on if they are not happy,Parents have to learn to let kids figure life out on their own,sure you can help them a little along the way and maybe steer them in the right direction,But lets all STOP doing the work for THEM!!!!!!

hockeygod · Post by **hockeygod** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:12 pm

Tell the kid to find out what he needs to do to get more ice then do it, nothing will impress a coach more than a kid doing exactly what he needs to do to improve his weaknesses..even coaches that are absolute jerks can respect hard work and improvement....If he's only a sophmore he still has plenty of time to improve, let him know next year will be better if he puts in the effort

The tender30 · Post by **The tender30** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:13 pm

for sure have your son talk to the coach then because that is not fair to be a sophmore and not getting alot of ice time. Your son must be a pretty solid player to be a sophmore on varsity so the coach should either play him up on varsity or have him play both so he gets varsity expierience but also gets to develop his skills on jv and then still practice with varsity so he is an alll around better players because that coach needs your son to become good if he wants to compete in the future and that is not going to happen from the bench. But let your son talk to him if you do the coach is going to get very upset and your son will see his ice time drop even more no matter how you approach him. Your son has to do it sometime when its just him and the coach

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Fairness.....

Fairness.....

Fairness

Fairness....

talking to coach