"AAA" Teams and its affect on winter hockey.

[fromthecrease]

On this forum there is a lot of talk about the machine, the deuce and the blades, etc.

With these groups of "all-star" teams there seems to be a focus being transfered from playing winter hockey to playing on these "all-star" teams.

Between parents and players that play on these teams there is a growing negative attitude on playing winter hockey in their community, they consider there "AAA" team the "real team" and winter hockey as a filler until the real season starts in April.

What suggestions do you have for dealing with parents and players who have these feelings of superiority because of their "status" with these teams? What suggestions do you have for getting the player and the parents to support the winter program? It seems to becoming a point of tension amongst teammates and parents a like.

Also, do these "AAA" teams practice during the winter while the players are involved in their community hockey programs?

[skillbuilder]

It's complicated as to how parents view AAA vs association based on many things. One Example would be a second year peewee skater who plays either elite or even mid tier 94 AAA in the summer is likely playing on a lesser skilled peewee A team this winter in comparison to that team.
The lack of a level one step higher ie. winter AAA is a point of frustration for those parents. There are also the players who are playing on A teams at small clubs who are great individually but are on weak teams that fuels some issues. The perceived quality in the coaching can be the reason for some of this as well. It has many faces and is so individually based that you can't fix it with a single idea.

[gaborik33]

My question is where do these parents/players think their going to play highschool at, they all can't play at Holy Angels,St Thomas etc. What I'm seeing is these parents/players not trying to make the winter team any better just trying to get through the season. In my book that's bad parenting.

[Dazed&Confused]

This is what happens. They play for blades and other type teams. They move onto Varsity teams as 9th and 10th graders a few even as 8th graders. They then leave these schools for the NDTP or Juniors or Junior programs in Canada. Some go to Shattucks. Thats where they play.

[gaborik33]

Not all will go the way you speak of. Only 2% of these kids will move on to play D1 hockey.

[sorno82]

I still think heavy empahsis in any one sport at such an early age is not good. There are a lot of articles on LTAD and early specialization out there. They all say the same thing-real development does not start until they reach puberty, so let them get to puberty without overwhelming them with 11 months of hockey a year. Below is a nice little snippet from an Erik Johnson Interview. Remember that Bernie did not get them until they were PeeWees.

...Here's the question: When did you feel your development as a hockey player really took off?...

EJ: ....But I am glad you wrote in. I would really say my development gradually kept getting better over my four years of high school. Obviously, Coach Trebil and Coach Olson had a great deal to do with that at Holy Angels.


But when I went to Ann Arbor, that was a huge step for me. My conditioning level was phenomenal after my two years there strengthwise. I would say if it wasn't for me going to the National Team Development Program, I would not be where I am today. So, I have a great deal of respect for USA Hockey, especially my coach, John Hynes, for where they helped me get today.

From everything I have read, doing too much too soon is a net negative. Kids achieve inspite of early specialization, not because of it.

[dingle]

Many of these "parents" you are talking about are actually coaches and/or board members at there associations. I would hope that they don't have negative attitudes about playing winter hockey at their associations. My guess is that they do not give their full attention to the association.


Also, I am sure that most parents/players involved on the top AAA teams in the summer just like to play/watch the best hockey that they can.

[fromthecrease]

What I end up seeing is that there is becoming more of a focus on treating the winter season like a developmental level for all this 'AAA'. What can you say to a parent whose focus has become that the winter season is terrible and bad development for their son? I understand the idea of competing with the best and aligning yourself with the best can create a championship mindset for success.

While the intentions are good, life is not fair and circumstances will arise in their lives where they won't have Johnny Superstar from the Space Cowboys next to him to help him through when the going gets tough down the line, he has to learn to work with people from all walks of life. To me its creating an elitist culture and as the parents feed into the propaganda and prestige it filters down through their player thus creating a negative division amongst his teammates and classmates.

Not every kid plays on these teams, so whats the answer when Johnny says that my Blades team would never lose to that team after a tough loss? Its almost like a disease thats infecting hockey.

[Hockeyguy_27]

What I end up seeing is that there is becoming more of a focus on treating the winter season like a developmental level for all this 'AAA'. What can you say to a parent whose focus has become that the winter season is terrible and bad development for their son? I understand the idea of competing with the best and aligning yourself with the best can create a championship mindset for success.

While the intentions are good, life is not fair and circumstances will arise in their lives where they won't have Johnny Superstar from the Space Cowboys next to him to help him through when the going gets tough down the line, he has to learn to work with people from all walks of life. To me its creating an elitist culture and as the parents feed into the propaganda and prestige it filters down through their player thus creating a negative division amongst his teammates and classmates.

Not every kid plays on these teams, so whats the answer when Johnny says that my Blades team would never lose to that team after a tough loss? Its almost like a disease thats infecting hockey.

I couldn't have said this better. What many of these elite hockey parents are missing is the concept of team and conveying to their children that just because he or she has a three point game, this shouldn't over-shaddow how the team does. Many of the parents I see at the youth levels are a bit shallow in this respect.

[BoogeyMan]

More Importantly, lets ask these questions:

1) Do the kids learn more from skating with better talent? Or do they learn more with skating with lessor talent?

2) Do the kids learn more from a stronger program? Or do they learn more from a weaker program?

Majority of these kids play for their local association during the winter. Choose to play AAA in the Spring, Summer and Fall.

Keep in mind. If the kids weren't doing AAA hockey they'd be doing clinics or camps.

The difference between AAA and Clinics or camps?

AAA has a pre-determined set schedule. Mostly after work.

Camps and clinics will be all over the board. Not to mention that majority of these times will be during business hours when Mom and Dad are at work.

I'm telling you. It all comes down to how strong is your local association? If the kids skates in a weaker program. He or she will leave at the first opportunity.
Who are we to judge? We all must do whats best for our families.

Look at Minnesota state high school hockey. How many kids leave high school to play for other programs?
Besides playing with better talent. The main reason these kids are leaving. Lack of ice time at the high school level. This is why Minnesota will be going the AAA route within the next 10-15 years. Like it or not. Playing 25 high school games a year isn't enough.
In the same season Jay Barriball from the gophers started playing hockey with the USHL. Enrolled back into holy Angels played the high school season. Won the state championship then left school to play for the USHL again. All this in one season to obtain more ice time with top talent. He was loyal to his team mates at Holy Angels.
You rarely see kids jumping from high school directly to college. Lack of ice time is the main reason. College coaches ask these kids to develop their skills in the USHL or US development team.

Last question: Someone should ask all the top ranked players in the State of Minnesota.

Did you play AAA hockey and association hockey at a young age?

If I had to guess. I would say majority of these players would say yes. Sure some developed their skills later in their careers. But how do we know that AAA didn't have anything to do with it? We don't.

I know, I know there's some kids that don't start playing hockey until the day before there Senior year of high school. Blah, blah, blah.

PEACE!

[O-townClown]

Look at Minnesota state high school hockey. How many kids leave high school to play for other programs?

You rarely see kids jumping from high school directly to college. Lack of ice time is the main reason. College coaches ask these kids to develop their skills in the USHL or US development team.

1. Isn't the number of players leaving HS decreasing? There aren't many on the 17U NTDP. USHL still seems to be a draw, but as you mention... some kids can boomerang and return to their HS team.

2. I thought the reason college coaches looked for their players to play a year or two of USHL was for the physical development. If a kid starts college at 18 they will be done when they are 22. By deferring a year or more they lose their least effective year and pick one up where they are turning 23 or even 24 during the season. Yes, they play a lot of games in the USHL, but the biggest benefit seems to be that they mature physically.

Your argument is incredibly biased. Like the Minnesota developmental model or not, the state turns out FAR more college hockey players than any other state. 20% of all Americans playing D1 are Minnesotan, more than Massachusetts, Michigan, or any other two states combined.

AAA hockey could siphon off some superb players and you will still see players that don't abandon traditional HS programs advance to college.

[greybeard58]

The 20 year old freshman is not new and many coaches want a player to get those 2 years of physical development.
Last year according to Inside College Hockey there were 1022 players from the USA playing Division 1 hockey. Mn had 214, Mich 150,Mass. 124,Ny 103 then the drop to Ill 59. While other states have their numbers move around, Minnesota have been over 200 players the last 4 years.
The number of Mn players drafted by the NHL since 2000 is at 107 Michigan is at 60, Mass at 58, NY at 50.
As for AAA not all have used this venue. There is one player played B level hockey used the camps during the summer and with the encouragement of his HS coach played in the USHL his senior year. Played in the USHL for 3 years got a D1 scholarship played 4 years did not get drafted and attended 2 NHL tryout camps and is now playing in the AHL.Most important he is just short of getting his degree and will get that after this season. He came from a small association.

[BoogeyMan]

Greybeard- You're right! To get physical development. The player must play more than 25 high school games.

Playing time is the determining factor.

Right or wrong. If the players want to become the best. They must play against the best. Playing USHL or Development league are the best options.

Eric Johnsons game went to the next level hitting high school and development program. But who taught him how to skate? He learned this when he was younger.

Add 2 + 2. What does this equal? He was part of a strong program that annually develops top players. A program that showed him how to play the game at a young age.

This all goes back to: What make a solid association? I say it takes strong people to develop the kids. These programs develop the kids.

[BoogeyMan]

"Real hockey players aren't born - They're made".

[davey]

The 20 year old freshman is not new and many coaches want a player to get those 2 years of physical development.
Last year according to Inside College Hockey there were 1022 players from the USA playing Division 1 hockey. Mn had 214, Mich 150,Mass. 124,Ny 103 then the drop to Ill 59. While other states have their numbers move around, Minnesota have been over 200 players the last 4 years.
The number of Mn players drafted by the NHL since 2000 is at 107 Michigan is at 60, Mass at 58, NY at 50.
As for AAA not all have used this venue. There is one player played B level hockey used the camps during the summer and with the encouragement of his HS coach played in the USHL his senior year. Played in the USHL for 3 years got a D1 scholarship played 4 years did not get drafted and attended 2 NHL tryout camps and is now playing in the AHL.Most important he is just short of getting his degree and will get that after this season. He came from a small association.

Not only do they want the physical development from the 20 year old freshman, but the overall maturity. I recently talked to one D1 assistant and he mentioned that in there program, the 20 year old freshman average about a 1.0 higher gpa than the true freshman coming out of HS. That is because they have spent the last 2 years in Juniors getting used to being an adult and making choices, good or bad. The overall maturity level is just higher with the 20 year old freshman.