Last chance for the North?

[almostashappy]

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

Don't forget access to ice. When you take 10% of a typical Metro school's enrollment, and give them 10,000% more ice time, it starts to look a little more level.

Each new hockey season sees a fresh crop of Metro area PeeWee and Bantam players and parents making the pilgrimage Up North to play in a Roseau Tournament. And each year, these players and parents leave Roseau with no small amount of awe and/or jealousy about the set-up they have there. A city with 2,800 residents has two stoplights and three sheets of ice, one rink which is reserved for free never-ending games of pick-up hockey? The typical metro suburb might have 50,000 residents and only two sheets of ice (sometimes shared by multiple youth hockey associations). You can play pick-up hockey games inside these suburban rinks, but only if your parents are willing to whip out their wallets to pay the $180/hr rental fee.

There's always outdoor ice and backyard rinks...but there again, you guys Up North have the distinct weather advantage (especially this year). Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

[karl(east)]

I think East is in a unique situation that most towns do not have. None of these Schools,
Roseau: 374
Warroad: 318
Grand Rapids: 947
Thief River Falls: 705
Bemidji: 1,145
Brainerd: 1,685
have another big school (amature hockey program - Lakers) next door.
Many of the best kids on the Lakers somehow get on the East team.
I don't think it goes the other way. Not saying it is wrong, just telling it like it is.

This is true, though many of these programs have had players come in from time to time; we've all heard the jokes about jobs at Marvin Windows in Warroad, Grand Rapids has added some Greenway kids over the years, and Cloquet (another team that could be on this list) has benefitted from some transfers and also a bunch of talented foreign exchange students over the years.

Also, East and the Lakers/Denfeld lose kids to Marshall--private schools are not an issue for any of the above teams.

Of the 3 ex-Lakers on the East team, one is the son of an East hockey alum who went on to UMD. I don't know all of the details on the others, but one has been a regular at Glen Avon for years--not exactly the west side. These cases don't exactly strike me as community abandonment, but we all have our own perspectives.

As I've said before, no one would care about any of this if East were a metro program. Most of their practices are perfectly normal, and the programs that do play nothing but the kids they develop, without any losses to other places, are the exceptions. That doesn't make any of it right, but I don't think it makes it wrong either; it is what it is.

[MNHockeyFan]

Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

The thing that I think has hurt most Northern teams more than anything else is the decline in the economy, which in turn has led to a decline in birth rates. Other than farming, which is doing pretty well but becomes less of a factor as you head north and east, the recession has hurt the outstate areas more than the greater Twin Cities area. What's happened in the inner cities of Mpls. and St. Paul is a different issue.

[blacklung]

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

Don't forget access to ice. When you take 10% of a typical Metro school's enrollment, and give them 10,000% more ice time, it starts to look a little more level.

Each new hockey season sees a fresh crop of Metro area PeeWee and Bantam players and parents making the pilgrimage Up North to play in a Roseau Tournament. And each year, these players and parents leave Roseau with no small amount of awe and/or jealousy about the set-up they have there. A city with 2,800 residents has two stoplights and three sheets of ice, one rink which is reserved for free never-ending games of pick-up hockey? The typical metro suburb might have 50,000 residents and only two sheets of ice (sometimes shared by multiple youth hockey associations). You can play pick-up hockey games inside these suburban rinks, but only if your parents are willing to whip out their wallets to pay the $180/hr rental fee.

There's always outdoor ice and backyard rinks...but there again, you guys Up North have the distinct weather advantage (especially this year). Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

Global warming would be devastating to northern hockey, with the exception of probably Roseau… Duluth and Hermantown’s amature programs would evaporate! lol

[elliott70]

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

Don't forget access to ice. When you take 10% of a typical Metro school's enrollment, and give them 10,000% more ice time, it starts to look a little more level.

Each new hockey season sees a fresh crop of Metro area PeeWee and Bantam players and parents making the pilgrimage Up North to play in a Roseau Tournament. And each year, these players and parents leave Roseau with no small amount of awe and/or jealousy about the set-up they have there. A city with 2,800 residents has two stoplights and three sheets of ice, one rink which is reserved for free never-ending games of pick-up hockey? The typical metro suburb might have 50,000 residents and only two sheets of ice (sometimes shared by multiple youth hockey associations). You can play pick-up hockey games inside these suburban rinks, but only if your parents are willing to whip out their wallets to pay the $180/hr rental fee.

There's always outdoor ice and backyard rinks...but there again, you guys Up North have the distinct weather advantage (especially this year). Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

This is very true.
The advnatage goes to the north here.
But the metro makes some of it up in the summer.

[elliott70]

Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

The thing that I think has hurt most Northern teams more than anything else is the decline in the economy, which in turn has led to a decline in birth rates. Other than farming, which is doing pretty well but becomes less of a factor as you head north and east, the recession has hurt the outstate areas more than the greater Twin Cities area. What's happened in the inner cities of Mpls. and St. Paul is a different issue.

The economy and the population (which to some extent is the economy).

I grew up 'up north'.
Graduating class 325.
Now my home town graduates about 100, maybe less.

Duluth had 4 public schools, I believe (East, Central, Denfeld, Morgan-Park); now 2.

Brainerd, Moorhead, Bemidji have increase in population. Duluth was over 100,000; now maybe 80,000???
Grand Rapids & East Grand Forks may have held their own, but The IFalls, TRiver Falls, Eveleth, Virginia, Hibbing, Coleraine, Warroad, Roseau's of the world are tiny. They do well at times because of tradition, community support, availablity of ice.

Numbers and money...

CA, Florida, Indiana, Illinois...
producing hockey players because of those things.


As for outdoor ice this year....
ice was good on the pond for about 4 weeks...
pretty well shot now.

[rainier]

Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

The thing that I think has hurt most Northern teams more than anything else is the decline in the economy, which in turn has led to a decline in birth rates. Other than farming, which is doing pretty well but becomes less of a factor as you head north and east, the recession has hurt the outstate areas more than the greater Twin Cities area. What's happened in the inner cities of Mpls. and St. Paul is a different issue.

That's exactly the case in Hibbing. The population is still around 18,000, but the average age is just skyrocketing. When kids graduate from Hibbing, there are very few jobs, so even if they go away to school and want to move back, they can't.

If the mines stay stable, then when the boomers start retiring en masse you might see a jump in enrollment as younger people fill those jobs, but until then it's hard to see much increase in any range town.

Rapids seems to be able to maintain their enrollment better as the forestry, outdoor recreation, and tourism industries are more stable than mining alone. (Would you Rapids people agree with this?)

[MTStringer]

Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

The thing that I think has hurt most Northern teams more than anything else is the decline in the economy, which in turn has led to a decline in birth rates. Other than farming, which is doing pretty well but becomes less of a factor as you head north and east, the recession has hurt the outstate areas more than the greater Twin Cities area. What's happened in the inner cities of Mpls. and St. Paul is a different issue.

That's exactly the case in Hibbing. The population is still around 18,000, but the average age is just skyrocketing. When kids graduate from Hibbing, there are very few jobs, so even if they go away to school and want to move back, they can't.

If the mines stay stable, then when the boomers start retiring en masse you might see a jump in enrollment as younger people fill those jobs, but until then it's hard to see much increase in any range town.

Rapids seems to be able to maintain their enrollment better as the forestry, outdoor recreation, and tourism industries are more stable than mining alone. (Would you Rapids people agree with this?)

I understand that the GR enrollment will fall slightly each year until this group of 5th graders enters HS at which point it will stabilize.

[MTStringer]

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

Don't forget access to ice. When you take 10% of a typical Metro school's enrollment, and give them 10,000% more ice time, it starts to look a little more level.

Each new hockey season sees a fresh crop of Metro area PeeWee and Bantam players and parents making the pilgrimage Up North to play in a Roseau Tournament. And each year, these players and parents leave Roseau with no small amount of awe and/or jealousy about the set-up they have there. A city with 2,800 residents has two stoplights and three sheets of ice, one rink which is reserved for free never-ending games of pick-up hockey? The typical metro suburb might have 50,000 residents and only two sheets of ice (sometimes shared by multiple youth hockey associations). You can play pick-up hockey games inside these suburban rinks, but only if your parents are willing to whip out their wallets to pay the $180/hr rental fee.

There's always outdoor ice and backyard rinks...but there again, you guys Up North have the distinct weather advantage (especially this year). Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

GR is currently ranked 7th in AAA Boys BB down from 4th last week (loss to Bemidji), and has a pretty tough wrestling squad

[Ranger101]

[quote] Grand Rapids has added some Greenway kids over the years


Who? Jon Casey is like the only one who did anything. I think Underwood of this years team may have originally been from Greenway. Grand Rapids/Greenway situation is completely different from the rest of these examples. They are like 5 miles apart and the Girls teams are Co-op..just sayin don't rope the poor Thunderchickens into this group..they have suffered enough having to go from the Indians (awesome) to the Thunderhawks (huh??)

[MTStringer]

Grand Rapids has added some Greenway kids over the years


Who? Jon Casey is like the only one who did anything. I think Underwood of this years team may have originally been from Greenway. Grand Rapids/Greenway situation is completely different from the rest of these examples. They are like 5 miles apart and the Girls teams are Co-op..just sayin don't rope the poor Thunderchickens into this group..they have suffered enough having to go from the Indians (awesome) to the Thunderhawks (huh??)

I think the name changed cursed/jinked the GR sports teams once it was made. I miss the head dresses and the Hamm's beer theme!

[grindiangrad-80]

My class had a little over 400 in it I believe.
From what I hear, they graduate around 290 now.
Population of GR was about 7300 in '80.
Somewhere around 8000 now.
Average age is climbing.

[north_bear]

I think the population is actually around 10k. They just did the census and the city had expanded its boundaries a few years back. The population looks to be stable or increasing. With the mines picking up steam again it hopefully leads to more happy hockey times on the range.

[MHGr8ness]

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

Don't forget access to ice. When you take 10% of a typical Metro school's enrollment, and give them 10,000% more ice time, it starts to look a little more level.

Each new hockey season sees a fresh crop of Metro area PeeWee and Bantam players and parents making the pilgrimage Up North to play in a Roseau Tournament. And each year, these players and parents leave Roseau with no small amount of awe and/or jealousy about the set-up they have there. A city with 2,800 residents has two stoplights and three sheets of ice, one rink which is reserved for free never-ending games of pick-up hockey? The typical metro suburb might have 50,000 residents and only two sheets of ice (sometimes shared by multiple youth hockey associations). You can play pick-up hockey games inside these suburban rinks, but only if your parents are willing to whip out their wallets to pay the $180/hr rental fee.

There's always outdoor ice and backyard rinks...but there again, you guys Up North have the distinct weather advantage (especially this year). Throw in the tradition, the culture, the community support, and even more hyperfocus on hockey as the only high school sport that matters (do they even play basketball in Roseau?), and I think that Northern teams will continue to do just fine, despite the differences in enrollment.

GR is currently ranked 7th in AAA Boys BB down from 4th last week (loss to Bemidji), and has a pretty tough wrestling squad

I have a very good friend who Nordic skis who made it to state a couple of times from there so I would assume that's a strong team as well.

[north_bear]

GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.

[MTStringer]

GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.

Yep. Strong Nordic, cross country and baseball teams as well. I think the baseball team was runner-up a few years back to the Lakeville team the year before they split the HS.

[karl(east)]

Grand Rapids has added some Greenway kids over the years


Who? Jon Casey is like the only one who did anything. I think Underwood of this years team may have originally been from Greenway. Grand Rapids/Greenway situation is completely different from the rest of these examples. They are like 5 miles apart and the Girls teams are Co-op..just sayin don't rope the poor Thunderchickens into this group..they have suffered enough having to go from the Indians (awesome) to the Thunderhawks (huh??)

Hey, the East and Denfeld girls' teams co-op too. Can they use the same excuse?

My point wasn't to call out teams for bringing in outside players--it was to show that this is perfectly normal. In fact, Casey is a great example of how the "good old days when everyone played for his own community" stretches the truth some.

This isn't to say community loyalty isn't important. It is. But people come and go and move about, and if the new buy into the community and feel a sense of pride in it, who are we to care?

[northwoods oldtimer]

GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.

Basketball like football is a watered down event to get to a so called "state" tournament. I am sure there might be about 50 people tops who care about that crappy sport.

[blacklung]

GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.

Basketball like football is a watered down event to get to a so called "state" tournament. I am sure there might be about 50 people tops who care about that crappy sport.

Don’t sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel!

[mulefarm]

GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.

Basketball like football is a watered down event to get to a so called "state" tournament. I am sure there might be about 50 people tops who care about that crappy sport.

One of the few times I completely agree with the oldtimer!

[MrBoDangles]

GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.

Basketball like football is a watered down event to get to a so called "state" tournament. I am sure there might be about 50 people tops who care about that crappy sport.

Nothing quite like "watching a couple monkeys try to hump a football". ~ Herb Brooks

[north_bear]

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
north_bear wrote:
GR finished 2nd at state in basketball a couple years ago. I think they narrowly lost to the top ranked team that hadnt lost a game all year.


Basketball like football is a watered down event to get to a so called "state" tournament. I am sure there might be about 50 people tops who care about that crappy sport.

Oh I completly agree!! I can't stand basketball. Just pointing out that there can be good sports teams from the north even if there isnt a religious following.

[Reggie]

The Roseau sophomore class won state as PeeWees and VFW state last year as Bantams. Also Grand Rapids next year should be a top 5 team. I know nothing of Moorhead's youth teams but I can't imagine them falling too far away from the state's elite for more than a year or two at a time, regardless of what letsplayhockey says right now.

Agreed

[green4]

In looking at the Let's Play Hockey rankings, the future does not look good for any of the Northern teams. Hermantown looks to have the best possibility for success, but none of the AA schools are ranked highly, It appears that if Duluth East doesn't win the AA title this year, it may not happen for a long long time if ever.

Let see.....
School Class size

1 DE 1,345
2 Tonka 2,750
3 MG 2,142
4 Eagan 2,147
5 Edina 2,436
6 EP 3,007
7 Spuds 1,356
8 BSM* 920
9 Wayzata 3,060
10 Hill* 705

* Private school

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

correction edina's enrollment is 1940

[FightingSioux5]

In looking at the Let's Play Hockey rankings, the future does not look good for any of the Northern teams. Hermantown looks to have the best possibility for success, but none of the AA schools are ranked highly, It appears that if Duluth East doesn't win the AA title this year, it may not happen for a long long time if ever.

Let see.....
School Class size

1 DE 1,345
2 Tonka 2,750
3 MG 2,142
4 Eagan 2,147
5 Edina 2,436
6 EP 3,007
7 Spuds 1,356
8 BSM* 920
9 Wayzata 3,060
10 Hill* 705

* Private school

Give DE and Moorhead some credit.......Some of these schools are more than 2x the size. Other Schools like Roseau and Grand Rapids are even smaller. I think they said this about Roseau when they opted up to play the big schools and yet they have not only produced section final teams but State Champion Teams. I do not look solely on what their youth teams are ranked. Quality Coaching and the program itself must come into consideration.

You're right on that one. Rapids has a class size of about 250-260, and Roseau is about half that size (if that). Props to those smaller schools for staying, and competing, at the AA level