AS, I read it the first time - Jolt was falling back on the sad, tired, beaten down assumption that anyone not in agreement with him must be living vicariously through his kid. I disagreed with your response, in that I think people can learn and change.
Nature v. Nurture has been discussed longer than hockey has been around, and by folks a heck of a lot smarter than any of us. I appreciate Animal's fame allows him an audience, but I don't think he added anything terribly insightful - and it would have been nice if someone from Wayzata would have ghost written his thoughts.
I guess athletes are born not made....
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auld_skool
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If you believe that then we don't disagree at all.InigoMontoya wrote:AS, I read it the first time - Jolt was falling back on the sad, tired, beaten down assumption that anyone not in agreement with him must be living vicariously through his kid. I disagreed with your response, in that I think people can learn and change.
Interesting article....the father/coach is working awfullly hard to justify the training of football to create a better hockey player. I my opinion it is exactly the opposite. I'll go so far to say that you take a natural athlete and put him on a football field for the first time and he could be one of the best players. When was the last time you saw the nation champ heavy weight wrestler decide to tryout for the Wild after his collegiate career.
Natural athlete my a--....there is nothing natural about strapping on knives to your feet and shooting a rock around with a stick. The Dad is kidding himself if he thinks his boy was going to play either sport without complete dedication. There are no natural athletes in hockey.
Natural athlete my a--....there is nothing natural about strapping on knives to your feet and shooting a rock around with a stick. The Dad is kidding himself if he thinks his boy was going to play either sport without complete dedication. There are no natural athletes in hockey.
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InigoMontoya
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iwearmysunglassesatnight
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JoltDelivered
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Tired old argument IM?
Has there ever been an orphan that made it to professional sports? There had to be at least one? How did he do it without some tired old dad with a softball beer belly pushing him with .25 cent advice and few movie lines he heard when he up late one night.
Please don't tell me that atheletes make it big because of their dad's advice...PUKE....
Has there ever been an orphan that made it to professional sports? There had to be at least one? How did he do it without some tired old dad with a softball beer belly pushing him with .25 cent advice and few movie lines he heard when he up late one night.
Please don't tell me that atheletes make it big because of their dad's advice...PUKE....
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Toomuchtoosoon
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I agree that you cannot take a great athlete from another sport like they do in football and make them an NHLer without ever playing, however, you have to admit that being a better athlete is beneficial to being a good/great hockey player. I am sure in your playing days you saw guys who put in less effort than you who were better hockey players. It is a sliding scale, but I believe you do not make it to the show without being very athletic.The Dad is kidding himself if he thinks his boy was going to play either sport without complete dedication. There are no natural athletes in hockey.
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greybeard58
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I do remember reading an article where John Mariucci tried to get 2 football players to join his team one because of his quickness and the other because he was supposedly the best athlete he had in his class. The first was Bobby Bell and the second was Charlie Sanders both are in the pro football hall of fame.
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JoltDelivered
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You know as I refelct on this topic a little more, there are other things that come to mind about "hard-working" people in general.
Hard work comes from motivation and motivation depends heavily on reward. If there is no percieved reward at the end of the tunnel, then motivation can be very hard to come by. Now, that reward can manifest iself in many different ways, i.e money, sense of accomplishment, self betterment, fame, glory, career enhancement, etc... the list goes on.
SELF motivated people that also have ambition are usually your more successful types in this society, regardless of career path and this includes sports. I beleive when people talk about teaching their kid work ethic, like many have here, what they are really trying to do is teach their child to self motivate themselves to "want it". But to speak to my earlier points, the kids who appear "NOT to want it", well, maybe they are the kids whose reward is to simply play.
And finally don't confuse hard work in youth sports equals success later in life. I know it's fashionable in today's culture to think that it does but I am still struggling to make the leap that skating the hardest in practice or doing that extra hour of stickhandling when your 10, will mean my kid, 30 years later, will be the hardest working software engineer at Microsoft. (just an example - plug in your profession of choice here)
I think the most important attributes kids learn in youth sports are 1) How to accept criticism and apply it (i.e. be coachable) and 2) How to be a contributing member of a team. This is the skillset that will be most valuable when the young child matures and embarks on a profession.
To quote one of my favorite movie lines from Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase, when he hooked up all the xmas lights, plugged them in and nothing happened and Clark's in-laws lobbed insults at him for all of this not working. Clark's daughter came to his defense by saying: "But Grandpa, he worked really hard." Clark's father-in-law retorted, "Yeah, so do washing machines."
An old mentor of mine always told me, "Don't work harder, work smarter". Something I live by still today.
Hard work comes from motivation and motivation depends heavily on reward. If there is no percieved reward at the end of the tunnel, then motivation can be very hard to come by. Now, that reward can manifest iself in many different ways, i.e money, sense of accomplishment, self betterment, fame, glory, career enhancement, etc... the list goes on.
SELF motivated people that also have ambition are usually your more successful types in this society, regardless of career path and this includes sports. I beleive when people talk about teaching their kid work ethic, like many have here, what they are really trying to do is teach their child to self motivate themselves to "want it". But to speak to my earlier points, the kids who appear "NOT to want it", well, maybe they are the kids whose reward is to simply play.
And finally don't confuse hard work in youth sports equals success later in life. I know it's fashionable in today's culture to think that it does but I am still struggling to make the leap that skating the hardest in practice or doing that extra hour of stickhandling when your 10, will mean my kid, 30 years later, will be the hardest working software engineer at Microsoft. (just an example - plug in your profession of choice here)
I think the most important attributes kids learn in youth sports are 1) How to accept criticism and apply it (i.e. be coachable) and 2) How to be a contributing member of a team. This is the skillset that will be most valuable when the young child matures and embarks on a profession.
To quote one of my favorite movie lines from Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase, when he hooked up all the xmas lights, plugged them in and nothing happened and Clark's in-laws lobbed insults at him for all of this not working. Clark's daughter came to his defense by saying: "But Grandpa, he worked really hard." Clark's father-in-law retorted, "Yeah, so do washing machines."
An old mentor of mine always told me, "Don't work harder, work smarter". Something I live by still today.
To quote one of my favorite movie lines from Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase, when he hooked up all the xmas lights, plugged them in and nothing happened and Clark's in-laws lobbed insults at him for all of this not working. Clark's daughter came to his defense by saying: "But Grandpa, he worked really hard." Clark's father-in-law retorted, "Yeah, so do washing machines."
An old mentor of mine always told me, "Don't work harder, work smarter". Something I live by still today.[/quote]
Without a doubt to be successful at anything and everything you need to not only be smart and work that way, but also have a strong work ethic.
People don't wake up with a strong work ethic, I believe that is taught rather it be playing a sport, video game, home work, scooping snow, etc.
You see many adults and kids with plenty of potential but never live up to it, because of a lack of hard work.
Instilling hard work as a core competency and belief is critical. Because everyone at some point will hit a wall/ceiling on things they can do thru intellect, etc.
Another great quote:
Sooner or later all the great planning and strategy have to give way to SWEAT!
An old mentor of mine always told me, "Don't work harder, work smarter". Something I live by still today.[/quote]
Without a doubt to be successful at anything and everything you need to not only be smart and work that way, but also have a strong work ethic.
People don't wake up with a strong work ethic, I believe that is taught rather it be playing a sport, video game, home work, scooping snow, etc.
You see many adults and kids with plenty of potential but never live up to it, because of a lack of hard work.
Instilling hard work as a core competency and belief is critical. Because everyone at some point will hit a wall/ceiling on things they can do thru intellect, etc.
Another great quote:
Sooner or later all the great planning and strategy have to give way to SWEAT!