Vick

[power92]

Wow, it's like we're going backwards in the conversation. Boldface this quote too, "A person going out to hurt for sport is different than someone going to hurt so people can live." And then there's one from a few hours before that.

What I am saying is that hunting for sport is wrong. If you'd like me to insert "for sport" in with my last few posts, I can, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt to know that. My bad.

Dick Butkus was a person who liked to go out and HURT for sport.

Freudian slip? you've done this several times and the "r" is no where near the "n" on my keyboard.

tomAss........... here catch this, it's from Govs and Neut and me!

.

That's good stuff!
From the queen of going backwards in a conversation, no less.

[tomASS]

tomAss........... here catch this, it's from Govs and Neut and me!

Thanks !
I didn't think I would need one in such shallow waters, but I'm grabbing on to it

[packerboy]

Well, the controversy rages.

But I say boof Michael Vick. I dont care what happens to him.

For people to drag down law abiding citizens because they hunt and fish to try to protect this guy or justify his conduct is ridiculous.

Maybe what sportsmen do for their entertainment isnt all that different or maybe it is. The bottom line is that this moron was being paid millions of dollars to play football and decided tp spend some of it on illegal activities.

Why should we care what he loses.

He deserves whatever he gets just for being so boofin stupid.

[Knowlzee]

Animals are not human. Humans are different in that they have emotions,....and are just plain more intelligent that animals,...well most humans (Michael Vick and some others may be an exception). God put animals on this earth for our survival. In doing this humans learned how to hunt them for food, clothing, etc.,....we have been hunting wild animals forever. Each day in the life of a wild animal is about survial, and that includes being hunted by man (and we have let a few powerful men determine that it will only occur during 2 weeks in November). It cannot now be wrong. And, it certainly is not wrong just because Bong and his PETA buddies say it is wrong. We should not allow our traditions to be taken away from us by a bunch of nuts.

Domestic animals do not exist by daily survival. They may or may not survive without man. Some (i.e. cows, chickens, etc.) exist for our food and clothing,.......some (i.e. dogs, cats, etc.) exist for our enjoyment and pleasure. In either case, I don't think God intented for man to torture any of these animals. Raising animals to fight each other is torture,.....and doing it for personal economic gain and enjoyment is nothing other than disgusting.

But to equate hunting and dogfighting,....is rediculous,.....not to mention disrespectful to all the many hunters that do it the right way. Most of these hunters probably care more about animals, than most of Bong's PETA gang, that may be actually more concerned with what political party gains the White House, than any animal's life.

With regard to Vick, I am with Packerboy,....he deserves whatever he gets (and who really cares what he loses) just for his ignorance.

With regard to the NFL suspension,.....if they are now going to start suspending every player for alleged crimes,.....are they going to be able find enough players for games on Sundays?

[HShockeywatcher]

packerboy, I've been agreeing with you on all those points from the beginning. That's not what we've been debating, or at least I haven't. It's why other similar activities are okay.

[power92]

packerboy, I've been agreeing with you on all those points from the beginning. That's not what we've been debating, or at least I haven't. It's why other similar activities are okay.

I think one of your problems is, you think hunting is similar to dogfighting.

[Can't Never Tried]

Animals are not human. Humans are different in that they have emotions,....and are just plain more intelligent that animals,...well most humans (Michael Vick and some others may be an exception). God put animals on this earth for our survival. In doing this humans learned how to hunt them for food, clothing, etc.,....we have been hunting wild animals forever. Each day in the life of a wild animal is about survial, and that includes being hunted by man (and we have let a few powerful men determine that it will only occur during 2 weeks in November). It cannot now be wrong. And, it certainly is not wrong just because Bong and his PETA buddies say it is wrong. We should not allow our traditions to be taken away from us by a bunch of nuts.

Domestic animals do not exist by daily survival. They may or may not survive without man. Some (i.e. cows, chickens, etc.) exist for our food and clothing,.......some (i.e. dogs, cats, etc.) exist for our enjoyment and pleasure. In either case, I don't think God intented for man to torture any of these animals. Raising animals to fight each other is torture,.....and doing it for personal economic gain and enjoyment is nothing other than disgusting.

But to equate hunting and dogfighting,....is rediculous,.....not to mention disrespectful to all the many hunters that do it the right way. Most of these hunters probably care more about animals, than most of Bong's PETA gang, that may be actually more concerned with what political party gains the White House, than any animal's life.

With regard to Vick, I am with Packerboy,....he deserves whatever he gets (and who really cares what he loses) just for his ignorance.

With regard to the NFL suspension,.....if they are now going to start suspending every player for alleged crimes,.....are they going to be able find enough players for games on Sundays?

Well put, you said it much better then I tried to do.. several pages ago!

[packerboy]

Knowlzee and I agree that Vick can go pound sand but I take issue with some of the attitudes that his post expresses.

1. God put animals on his earth for our survival.
-Really, and just how do we know that? Why do we assume that? Because we figured out how to kill them for food? Maybe God put animals on the earth so we could have somethng to care for and nuture.
- Even if true, do we need to kill deer and pheasant now for survival? If God put these things on the earth for us to survive, is it reasonable to assume that He no longer wants us to kill them if we can survive without doing so?

PETA people are crazy but they dont pretend to know why God did stuff.

2. Raising animals to fight each other is torture. Why? They kill each other in nature all the time and often times not for food.
Raising animals so they can die for our pleasure is somethng we do.

3. Equating hunting and dogfighting is ridiculous. No one is equating the 2. But there is no bright line that says killing an animal for one persons pleasure in a certain way is right and in another way is wrong. Maybe hunting isnt as bad as dogfighting but that doesnt nean us guys get to fish and hunt with Gods approval and dog fighters should go to jail.

God didnt say killing Bambies mother was legal and dogfighting wasnt. Man did.

And pretty soon Man will be in the forest and I wil be up fishing, thank God.

[elliott70]

Knowlzee and I agree that Vick can go pound sand but I take issue with some of the attitudes that his post expresses.

1. God put animals on his earth for our survival.

Perhaps He/She/It did put animals on earth for the benefit of (wo)man.

Point is men control animals (under most circumstances).


2. Raising animals to fight each other is torture.

Torture? Perhaps. Brutal? Yes.
Man has defined dog fighting in the USA as illegal. That's all that needs to be said.

3. Equating hunting and dogfighting is ridiculous.

Equating these two events IS ridiculous. One is legal, one is not. One takes a serious committment and a certain amount of skill, one is a specatator event (training takes but thick gloves and a big stick). they are not similar in any sense. Hunting is managed by the state. A certain amount of animals must die annually. One uses domestic animals in a brutal fashion. Hunting involves more than the death of a deer (etc). And all the hunters I have ever met care as much for the live deer as the deer on the pole.

But PB is correct in the presumption that God gave man something for his use is assuming that one knows Gods thoughts, plans or ideas. Generally not an axiom in any religion.

[elliott70]

But back to the topic,

Vick is now a convicted felon.

Anyone specualting on how long a sentence he serves?

My guess is he will be released about July 1 - August 1 of 2008.
Again specualtion that his agent is in process of negotiating some deal with the NFL (some team(s) other than Atlanta).

[tomASS]

But back to the topic,

Vick is now a convicted felon.

Anyone specualting on how long a sentence he serves?

My guess is he will be released about July 1 - August 1 of 2008.
Again specualtion that his agent is in process of negotiating some deal with the NFL (some team(s) other than Atlanta).

Sentencing does not take place until Dec 10 according to a report I saw.
I would imagine jail time was part of the plea agreement negotiations and Vick and his lawyers know already, but a judge still has to approve the amount of time and make sure it falls into sentencing guidelines

[Can't Never Tried]

Knowlzee and I agree that Vick can go pound sand but I take issue with some of the attitudes that his post expresses.

1. God put animals on his earth for our survival.
-Really, and just how do we know that? Why do we assume that? Because we figured out how to kill them for food? Maybe God put animals on the earth so we could have somethng to care for and nuture.
- Even if true, do we need to kill deer and pheasant now for survival? If God put these things on the earth for us to survive, is it reasonable to assume that He no longer wants us to kill them if we can survive without doing so?

PETA people are crazy but they dont pretend to know why God did stuff.

2. Raising animals to fight each other is torture. Why? They kill each other in nature all the time and often times not for food.
Raising animals so they can die for our pleasure is somethng we do.

3. Equating hunting and dogfighting is ridiculous. No one is equating the 2. But there is no bright line that says killing an animal for one persons pleasure in a certain way is right and in another way is wrong. Maybe hunting isnt as bad as dogfighting but that doesnt nean us guys get to fish and hunt with Gods approval and dog fighters should go to jail.

God didnt say killing Bambies mother was legal and dogfighting wasnt. Man did.

And pretty soon Man will be in the forest and I wil be up fishing, thank God.

PB answer to #1 Genesis 9:3........ that's how we know.
It' doesn't matter if we have to, it was a gift.

#2 Nature is nature...animals live on instinct...whether threatend or claiming their turf they do what comes natural..they don't know they are killing, they are just doing what comes natural to them, they are not purposly set in a ring they can't escape from for any other reason then the fools pleasure.

#3 1st sentence is correct and it could have ended there.
Yes we have Gods approval to all the creatures on the earth that move, to use for food and sustanance..the fact that society has regulated what was always our God given right, now for profit is what's made it a... so called sport.

BTW bambie is a Disney cartoon

On # 1 I really thought you of all posters knew that...or are you just playing with Bong?

[PanthersIn2011]

I assume most people have seen that the prosecutors are asking for 12-18 months. But the judge has been described as a very hard-liner when it comes to sentencing and could go beyond the 18 months. The following is snipped from a news report on today's hearing -- not exactly giving Vick a warm-fuzzy, is it? :


The plea by the suspended quarterback was accepted by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who asked: "Are you entering the plea of guilty to a conspiracy charge because you are in fact guilty?"

Vick replied, "Yes, sir."

Hudson emphasized he is not bound by sentencing guidelines and can impose the maximum sentence of up to five years in prison.

"You're taking your chances here. You'll have to live with whatever decision I make," Hudson said.


Full story is here http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/stor ... NHeadlines

[Irishmans Shanty]

As for Vick's playing career, he is doing the right thing, he's making this go away as fast as possible.

He admitted guilt, he'll do his time and he'll be a free man before he's thirty. He'll still be athletic when he get's out and there will be a chance(s) awaiting him as a QB in the National Football League.

If Pete Rose would have plead guilty right away he would have been back in baseball 10 years ago.

AMERICA FORGETS BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING ELSE MORE DISTURBING TO MOVE ON TO.

[packerboy]

Its hard to know what the judge will do. I dont think there is a lot of history of peple getting prosecuted for this in federal court. There was one guy a few years back who got 30 years in a state court.

Hopefully he will sentence Vick as a US citizen and not as a pro football player/celebrity. I hate it when they sentence people based on the fact that they are rich or a celebrity. That should not matter.

Look at the crime, the circumstances involved and the individuals record.

[HShockeywatcher]

Wow, have I missed a lot.

power, they are in that animals are dying.

packerboy, exactly what I've been outlining. If it takes you saying it for people to listen, so be it.

CNT, last time I checked the Bible was written by man.
You're really going to use the old testament where there were no technologies we have today to say that we can hunt for sport for food we don't need for survival? That'll take you real far anywhere aside from this board.
I'm not going to go as far as to say that dogfighting could be right, because I think it to be wrong, but PB does raise a good point.
How can you sit here and say that animals are here for us to do whatever we want with them: "we have Gods approval to all the creatures on the earth that move, to use for food and sustenance" and yet dogfighting is wrong? And people say I go backwards.

Vick will hopefully be in jail for 2 years or so. I'm just waiting for "The Longest Yard" starring Michael Vick.

[tomASS]

so we are all in agreement - dogfighting is bad

and

cat-fights are soooooooo much fun to watch, especially if water or oil is involved.

[packerboy]

Bad boy! Go to your kennel!

[Can't Never Tried]

Wow, have I missed a lot.

power, they are in that animals are dying.

packerboy, exactly what I've been outlining. If it takes you saying it for people to listen, so be it.

CNT, last time I checked the Bible was written by man.
You're really going to use the old testament where there were no technologies we have today to say that we can hunt for sport for food we don't need for survival? That'll take you real far anywhere aside from this board.
I'm not going to go as far as to say that dogfighting could be right, because I think it to be wrong, but PB does raise a good point.
How can you sit here and say that animals are here for us to do whatever we want with them: "we have Gods approval to all the creatures on the earth that move, to use for food and sustenance" and yet dogfighting is wrong? And people say I go backwards.

Vick will hopefully be in jail for 2 years or so. I'm just waiting for "The Longest Yard" starring Michael Vick.

A fool no doubt!..but then that is what makes the rest survive!
HSW you are the biggest idiot to roam this "bored" yes I stand by what I said...the creatures on the earth are to mankinds use...that's that!.
And the anwser to your question about Gods approval..read some, talk less, learn ...dog fighting is neither food nor sustanance...
And BTW I am as far as I need to go, you however are the child that has to learn lifes lessons before you spout off..ever wonder why no one responds to threads you start.....? because your a fool! Now go get a corndog made with veggies......Bong!

[Neutron 14]

I hope you feel better for getting THAT out!

[Can't Never Tried]

I hope you feel better for getting THAT out!

I do ...I think???:?
I think He is a She No man would talk like that..would they?

[Govs93]

Now go get a corndog made with veggies......Bong!

BLASPHEMY!

[HShockeywatcher]

Okay, well, sustanance isn't a word. But if we go by the word you meant then you are clearly saying that hunting for sport is not needed. Neither are pets. Neither are zoos. The list goes on. And why would you even try to make a point to me saying that dogfighting is okay when I've already agreed on that multiple times?
You want me to read something and learn about God's approval? Okay, well, last time I checked God hasn't written any books.
For someone who thinks himself to be so intelligent I'm surprised you're using "God's approval" for things to be legal. Off the top of my head I can think of a few things that are legal but are not all right in the Bible.

[Govs93]

Okay, well, sustanance isn't a word.

Sustenance. I mean, he did have a typo, but you wouldn't be one to point that out, would you, Bong? That would bee a little pot/kettle/black... wouldn't it? That's not really your style.

[HShockeywatcher]

You're right. It wouldn't be. For a long time now I've been trying to figure out exactly what people are saying with missed commas and other punctuation and many misspelled words. Then I misspell one word and I'm called out for it. So I thought if it wasn't the only thing I was commenting on, since I was actually commenting on the discussion at hand also, I'd comment on it while someone was doing a horrible job of putting me down.