Vick
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HShockeywatcher
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Neutron 14
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The NFL has no right to try nor penalize Vick for Federal crimes. They do of course have the right to penalize him for violations of league rules including gambling. Asking the NFL to ignore these violations, or have the league penalty run concurrently (as HSBong suggests), would make the league rules worthless. And its hardly penalizing him twice.ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The head of the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP said Wednesday that Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick has made mistakes but that they should not cost him his football career with the NFL.
NFL star Michael Vick has accepted an offer to plead guilty to conspiracy charges in a dogfighting case.
R.L. White, president of the Atlanta chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said his organization does not condone dogfighting or any other illegal activity, but he told reporters that Vick should be given a chance to redeem himself.
"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said. "The way he is being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody."
White said he believes Vick cut a deal rather than roll the dice on a trial and take a chance on being found guilty, but "whatever he's done wrongly, he needs to pay for it.
White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable.
He urged the National Football League, the Atlanta Falcons and Vick's commercial sponsors not to dump the troubled athlete.
"We feel that whatever the courts demand as a punishment for what he has done, once he has paid his debt to society, then he should be treated like any other person in the NFL," White said.
Compare dog fighting to deer hunting? What a moron.
I really am curious to see what the NFL does about this. If they're handing out year long suspensions to guys who haven't even been convicted of crimes (Pacman, Odell Thurman - I think), what are they going to do to a guy who has pleaded guilty to a federal crime and lied to the Commissioner, and owner of his own team. For the sake of consistency, Goodell has to keep him away for at least 2 years, doesn't he?Neutron 14 wrote:The NFL has no right to try nor penalize Vick for Federal crimes. They do of course have the right to penalize him for violations of league rules including gambling. Asking the NFL to ignore these violations, or have the league penalty run concurrently (as HSBong suggests), would make the league rules worthless. And its hardly penalizing him twice.ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The head of the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP said Wednesday that Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick has made mistakes but that they should not cost him his football career with the NFL.
NFL star Michael Vick has accepted an offer to plead guilty to conspiracy charges in a dogfighting case.
R.L. White, president of the Atlanta chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said his organization does not condone dogfighting or any other illegal activity, but he told reporters that Vick should be given a chance to redeem himself.
"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said. "The way he is being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody."
White said he believes Vick cut a deal rather than roll the dice on a trial and take a chance on being found guilty, but "whatever he's done wrongly, he needs to pay for it.
White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable.
He urged the National Football League, the Atlanta Falcons and Vick's commercial sponsors not to dump the troubled athlete.
"We feel that whatever the courts demand as a punishment for what he has done, once he has paid his debt to society, then he should be treated like any other person in the NFL," White said.
Compare dog fighting to deer hunting? What a moron.
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PanthersIn2011
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And this related gem:
Also a moron. Or maybe just acutely aware of his target market? (apparently, deer hunters don't buy cheap sneakers)On Monday, New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury was in Albany, N.Y., promoting his brand of affordable sneakers. He was asked about Michael Vick, and said, according to Newsday:
"We don't say anything about people shooting deers and shooting other animals, you know what I mean? From what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors and I think it's tough that we build Michael Vick up and then we break him down ... I think he fell into a bad situation."
Last edited by PanthersIn2011 on Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Is there a chance there is another dog fighting financier on another NFL roster somewhere who is "shredding his files" right now.
Vick can't be the only pro athlete who is this deep into it.
Pro athlete - People with ample fee time and money/resources who need to find "outside the box" entertainment/activities to entertain themselves.
Vick can't be the only pro athlete who is this deep into it.
Pro athlete - People with ample fee time and money/resources who need to find "outside the box" entertainment/activities to entertain themselves.
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HShockeywatcher
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How can you not compare the two? He's not saying they are the same thing, but he is saying that in both instances the intent is for a person to kill an animal. Why are dogs greater than deer?
Explain to me how it's not punishing him twice. If they want to give him an 18 month punishment, do that. If they want him out for so much time after he gets out, then just toss that into the punishment. Basically they wouldn't be punishing him because someone else is. That's punishing him twice. Plain and simple. Once by the government, then once more by the NFL. How is that not twice?
Explain to me how it's not punishing him twice. If they want to give him an 18 month punishment, do that. If they want him out for so much time after he gets out, then just toss that into the punishment. Basically they wouldn't be punishing him because someone else is. That's punishing him twice. Plain and simple. Once by the government, then once more by the NFL. How is that not twice?
You may be a complete idiot....
1)Hunting is a legal and regulated activity. People who don't follow the rules can be severely punished; you can have not only your priveledges taken away but your property seized. In every state hunting is a legal activity. Dog fighting is illegal PERIOD Making money gambling and not reporting it is illegal. Vick's offenses broke the law at the Federal, state, and local levels, what part of that don't you get and how does that equal in your mind to hunting? And maybe more importantly what the Heck kind of Civics class do you get at STA to not understand that there is a difference?
2) What you do on your own time can and often does affect your professional life. Ask any politician, or actor. Better yet any Truck driver, Doctor, Nurse, Teacher or many of a number of other occupations. If a Truck driver gets caught driving while under the influence in his own car on his own time he loses his commercial drivers license - essentially ending his career in that field. If a nurse gets caught selling drugs they lose their license. In most every occupation if you do something stupid and bring a bad name to your employer you're done there.
1)Hunting is a legal and regulated activity. People who don't follow the rules can be severely punished; you can have not only your priveledges taken away but your property seized. In every state hunting is a legal activity. Dog fighting is illegal PERIOD Making money gambling and not reporting it is illegal. Vick's offenses broke the law at the Federal, state, and local levels, what part of that don't you get and how does that equal in your mind to hunting? And maybe more importantly what the Heck kind of Civics class do you get at STA to not understand that there is a difference?
2) What you do on your own time can and often does affect your professional life. Ask any politician, or actor. Better yet any Truck driver, Doctor, Nurse, Teacher or many of a number of other occupations. If a Truck driver gets caught driving while under the influence in his own car on his own time he loses his commercial drivers license - essentially ending his career in that field. If a nurse gets caught selling drugs they lose their license. In most every occupation if you do something stupid and bring a bad name to your employer you're done there.
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HShockeywatcher
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Just because somethings legal doesn't mean it's right. You can't say "this is illegal so it's obviously wrong, and this is legal so it's okay." The point being made is that one activity is legal where you can kill animals and one is illegal where you kill animals.
I never said there wasn't a difference. I was comparing the two for something they have in common. If there wasn't a difference, they'd be the same thing, which they aren't.
I never said there wasn't a difference. I was comparing the two for something they have in common. If there wasn't a difference, they'd be the same thing, which they aren't.
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Neutron 14
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goldy, there is a big difference between a nurse stealing drugs and a football player being involved in dog fighting.
What if a salesmen gets caught illegally gambling and involved in dog fighting? Does he lose his job? Should he?
What about all of these Hollywood fools? There would be no actors left to star in movies. Rock stars?
Football players are entertainers. They have athletic ability but they make the money because they entertain us. Nobody cares if they are criminals just like nobody cares if Morton Downey Jr gets busted again. If he is in a good movie, they'll go see it. If Vick can lead Atlanta to the Super Bowl, the fans wont care if he is a criminal.
Is that the way it should be? No, but thats the way it is.
What if a salesmen gets caught illegally gambling and involved in dog fighting? Does he lose his job? Should he?
What about all of these Hollywood fools? There would be no actors left to star in movies. Rock stars?
Football players are entertainers. They have athletic ability but they make the money because they entertain us. Nobody cares if they are criminals just like nobody cares if Morton Downey Jr gets busted again. If he is in a good movie, they'll go see it. If Vick can lead Atlanta to the Super Bowl, the fans wont care if he is a criminal.
Is that the way it should be? No, but thats the way it is.
NBA to the rescue!!!
Stephon Marbury spoke Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany, N.Y.
"I think it's tough,'' Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors.''
Stephon Marbury spoke Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany, N.Y.
"I think it's tough,'' Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors.''
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Neutron 14
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Neutron 14
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Just like hunters, I wonder if these types of "sportsmen" eat the dogs too...Stealth wrote:NBA to the rescue!!!
Stephon Marbury spoke Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany, N.Y.
"I think it's tough,'' Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors.''
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HShockeywatcher
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What does eating them have anything to do with it? Sure, if you're a tribe that lives in the wilderness and you need to eat that deer for survival, then okay, you have a case, but that's not how it is. Hunting is by civilized people who do it for sport.
So, let me get this straight, if Vick were dogfighting, but after the dog fight he brought the dead dog to a butcher, got the meat, ending up eating it, and then on occasion mounted the heads on his wall he'd be fine in your book?
So, let me get this straight, if Vick were dogfighting, but after the dog fight he brought the dead dog to a butcher, got the meat, ending up eating it, and then on occasion mounted the heads on his wall he'd be fine in your book?
Neutron 14 wrote:Just like hunters, I wonder if these types of "sportsmen" eat the dogs too...Stealth wrote:NBA to the rescue!!!
Stephon Marbury spoke Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany, N.Y.
"I think it's tough,'' Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors.''
Probly not; But could he use it to make the Stephon Marbury Basketball shoe he was promoting?
It is interesting to note that dog is a delicacy in some circles.
Anyway, if its illegal, its illegal. The lines we draw on what we can and cant do to animals are confusing at best but then work to change the lines dont excuse illegal conduct by pointing out other 'similar' things are legal.
Otherwise, we have chaos.
Some professional athletes are crimnals. If the crime doesnt affect how the game is played , let the criminal justice systen deal with it.
Anyway, if its illegal, its illegal. The lines we draw on what we can and cant do to animals are confusing at best but then work to change the lines dont excuse illegal conduct by pointing out other 'similar' things are legal.
Otherwise, we have chaos.
Some professional athletes are crimnals. If the crime doesnt affect how the game is played , let the criminal justice systen deal with it.
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Can't Never Tried
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Are you kiddingHShockeywatcher wrote:What does eating them have anything to do with it? Sure, if you're a tribe that lives in the wilderness and you need to eat that deer for survival, then okay, you have a case, but that's not how it is. Hunting is by civilized people who do it for sport.
So, let me get this straight, if Vick were dogfighting, but after the dog fight he brought the dead dog to a butcher, got the meat, ending up eating it, and then on occasion mounted the heads on his wall he'd be fine in your book?
this is got to be one of the dumbest things you've said today.... you really know nothing about hunting and wildlife managment...The fact is that hunting is part of our heritage...Dogfighting is not!It is legal to hunt deer with a license, if you shoot a deer you are required to tag it register it. Then in many cases if the sportsman does not care for the meat it is donated to food shelf to help those in need, or given to friends, the hides are used as well.
Shooting a deer and leaving it is a crime as well.
Would you be happier if we did not control the deer population thru hunting ...do you have even the slightest clue what an acre of land can support?...have you ever hit a deer with your car?
Dogfighting is not legal under any conditions, gambling on that dog fight is illegal as well..
This just proves you will ramble about any subject even when you have no idea what your talking about..
As 2Aoldtimer said "it just makes you stupider"
YES!!! I didn't get roped into this one!!!!Can't Never Tried wrote:Are you kiddingHShockeywatcher wrote:What does eating them have anything to do with it? Sure, if you're a tribe that lives in the wilderness and you need to eat that deer for survival, then okay, you have a case, but that's not how it is. Hunting is by civilized people who do it for sport.
So, let me get this straight, if Vick were dogfighting, but after the dog fight he brought the dead dog to a butcher, got the meat, ending up eating it, and then on occasion mounted the heads on his wall he'd be fine in your book?
It is legal to hunt deer with a license, if you shoot a deer you are required to tag it register it. Then in many cases if the sportsman does not care for the meat it is donated to food shelf to help those in need, or given to friends, the hides are used as well.
Shooting a deer and leaving it is a crime as well.
Would you be happier if we did not control the deer population thru hunting ...do you have even the slightest clue what an acre of land can support?...have you ever hit a deer with your car?
Dogfighting is not legal under any conditions, gambling on that dog fight is illegal as well..
This just proves you will ramble about any subject even when you have no idea what your talking about..
As 2Aoldtimer said "it just makes you stupider"
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Neutron 14
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theref wrote:Wow, glad I read enough of this not to get roped in either as someone's obviously an idiot trying to compare apples to oranges.
Probably something to be said about trying for a clean kill or execution by drowning or electrocution.........
Okay, nope I'm not getting into it anymore than that.
very faulty "logic switch" in my opinion.
He better check because I don't think he is up to code
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PanthersIn2011
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PB:
The organized gambling aspect of this has to be a huge concern to the commissioner, and presumably is the reason why the NFL says it is still investigating [*]. It is one thing to lay a wager on a competition (be it an illegal dog fight or a golf match) ... it's a whole different thing to be bankrolling the operation. I'm not sure he can let it lay in the hands of the courts.
* The other reason, of course, is that Goodell wants to hear the sentence before he levies his "you lied to me" suspension/tax
The organized gambling aspect of this has to be a huge concern to the commissioner, and presumably is the reason why the NFL says it is still investigating [*]. It is one thing to lay a wager on a competition (be it an illegal dog fight or a golf match) ... it's a whole different thing to be bankrolling the operation. I'm not sure he can let it lay in the hands of the courts.
* The other reason, of course, is that Goodell wants to hear the sentence before he levies his "you lied to me" suspension/tax
Have to disagree with you CNT ... this one's gotta be a legitimate top 10 all-timer:Cant Never Tried wrote:this is got to be one of the dumbest things you've said today.
YogiBerra ... err ... HSHockeyWatcher wrote:If there wasn't a difference, they'd be the same thing, which they aren't.
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Neutron 14
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That WAS funny. I had to grab a tissue after reading it. Definate top ten.PanthersIn2011 wrote:Have to disagree with you CNT ... this one's gotta be a legitimate top 10 all-timer:Cant Never Tried wrote:this is got to be one of the dumbest things you've said today.
YogiBerra ... err ... HSHockeyWatcher wrote:If there wasn't a difference, they'd be the same thing, which they aren't.
You end up reading these statements of his three times trying to figure out what he means. Then you slap yourself for thinking its decipherable.