Minnesota Twins

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:58 am

If Mulholland were a righthander he'd be picking up his pension checks by now, the fact that he's still pitching shows the dearth of lefthanded relievers in the ML. My ten year old son's a lefty and I talked him into pitching an inning this season for our neighborhood park-rec team. He's got some velocity, but had trouble getting the ball over. When he wasn't interested in practicing pitching after that I let it go, but my dreams of watching him sitting out in the bullpen spitting sunflower seeds waiting to face a lefthanded slugger in the 8th inning were tough to let go. It's looking like the Twins' resurgence of the last few weeks was just a twitch in the corpse. I'll be cheering for anybody but the Yankees for the wildcard.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:31 am

Don't worry Chris, sounds like you still got plenty of time for your kid to be the next Steve Kline. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> And I'm glad to hear you are cheering for a bunch of losers in the Wild Card <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> On a separate note, what does everyone think about Jason Giambi of the present. Yes, I know he made the mistakes and cheated in the past, but he's doing pretty damn good right now. Yankees fan or not, you have to acknowledge what he's doing and I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about him. Peace Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:20 pm

Giambi, who cares! Go Indians, Angels, A's, and Boston. Could you imagine if 210 million bucks couldn't even get you in the postseason, pretty pathetic.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:47 pm

I hate to admit it but I have been a Yankee fan my whole life. I cant help it. When I was a kid, the best part about the Twins coming here was the fact that the Yankees would be in town 4 or 5 times. I used to watch them on TV when they had the game of the week on. Mantle , Maris, Berra, Ford, Richardson, Boyer, Howard. Unbelieveable to see them in person. They had guys playing backup that could have started for anybody else. Of course the Twins gradually displaced them as my #1 team but if the Twins arent going to win, go Yanks.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:18 pm

I was remodeling my bathroom a couple of weeks ago and as with many older homes, mine had newspaper for insulation. It was preserved awfully well considering it was 54 years old, anyway it was from the old Minneapolis Star and the lead stories on the sports pages that September were the Yankees and Giants. In fact the Yankees/Indians series had so much coverage you'd have thought it was the world series. How big was baseball back then? The Gopher football team wasn't even front page news on Sunday morning, even though they beat Indiana by 40. In fact, it wasn't until page 3 they were even mentioned. There was absolutley no mention of the NFL save a schedule of that days games. Of the 8 pages of sports news, 3 were fully devoted to baseball, 2 to College football (mostly on Army, Kentucky, and Notre Dame) 2 to hunting and 1 recapping high school football from friday. Cretin bashed some team from Wisconsin and Austin ran their winning streak to 30 games. A qoute went something like this.... barring an act from the governor, the game all football fans want to see between the Raiders and 3 time mythical state champion Packers will just have to be played out in our minds. Sound familiar? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Even after the Twins arrived my dad and uncles were all either Yankee, Giant, or Dodger fans. Now I know why. Back to my favorite team for a moment...From The Sporting News scouts view column... "The slow development of their first baseman Justin Morneau has had a huge, huge impact on the Twins. They don't get much out of second and short and when you have 2 or 3 holes in your lineup, it's hard in the American League." Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... oldy313</A> at: 8/29/05 7:29 pm

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:09 pm

I have a newfound respect for Packerboy. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> NewGuy, how can you say that you want Boston to win, and then bash the Yankees. Boston has like a $180 million payroll, thats only like a difference of Kevin Brown & Bernie Williams. Boston is not an underdog like they are played off to be. Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:54 pm

Well considering Boston's history I'd say there's a reason why they are viewed as underdog's. Sorry man but I got nothing but hate for the Yanks, you either love em' or hate em'.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:52 am

Good post goldy. Yah, baseball was it back then. There wasnt anything close. The NFL was nothing until "The Greatest Game" between the Colts and the Giants jumped started it and then MNF really caused it to take off. Morneau has really been an anchor. They treat Mauer like Babe Ruth(former Yankee), walking him at every opportunity because they have no concern about pitching to Morneau. So, it isnt just the fact that he isnt hitting but they have no protection for the one guy who is. But the whole team has failed miserably offensively. Their pitching has been absolutely brilliant. And hey, no one expected them to be the '27 Yankees (sorry Newguy) at the plate but they cant even hit a sac fly or a ground ball with a runner on 3rd with less than 2. But lets not be too hard on Newguy. The Yankee have been 'hated' by many for their success. Its part of the deal and their mystique.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:31 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Well considering Boston's history I'd say there's a reason why they are viewed as underdog's.<hr></blockquote> Who's fault is that? The Yankees and other teams because they beat them? Doesn't make sense... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

koren808 · Post by **koren808** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:59 am

Just to bring them up to make me look like an idiot, looks like I was wrong about the Orioles. If you think that the Twins went into a funk, just check out what Baltimore is doing right now. They are now 61-69 and in 4th place in the AL East. Remember when they were good earlier this year? Those days are long gone. And about Giambi, 7 RBI's the other day. He is doing better than I thought he would. One other item- how about the tear Ken Griffey Jr has been on? All of a sudden he has 30+ HR's and is 5th or so in the NL in HR's. For those who think he is washed up, he definetly is not and I expect him to end up going to a new team and become close to is Seattle form. He won't duplicate his time with what he did with the Mariners, but I could see him hittting 40+ HRs again if he gets into the right situation. ------------------- Who is the orca? Who is the octopus? I AM THE WALRUS!

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:34 am

First of all Packerboy I never thought the Twins were great offensively, second ER, a lot of people like teams who struggle and when they do finally win it is that much sweeter, I happen to be one of them. You are not human if you can't appreciate what the Boston Red Sox did last year. Packerboy sorry for always trying to put a positive spin on the Twins.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:03 am

ER, Steve Kline? I was hoping my son would emulate Jesse Orosco and be able to pitch into his 50s. Packerboy, I can see the appeal of the '50s & '60s Yanks with Mantle and all, but what about the Dodgers from that era? They were what the Red Sox were until last year, the team that couldn't get past the Yankees. I'm sure I'd have been a Dodgers fan had I grown up in that era, it's more fun to cheer for the underdog. Plus if I remember correctly the St.Paul Saints were a Dodgers farm club. I think someone touched on this, but not only are the Twins not hitting but they're not doing all the little things that could compensate, like moving runners and stealing bases.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:05 pm

Sure Chris, the Dodgers were good and ,with their pitching,they won a few world series. Not really underdog material. The Yankees were in it almost every year and won it half the time from the mid 50s to the mid 60s and they had the guys. You are right. The Saints were a AAA farm club of the Dodgers. In fact, the Dodgers would come to town to play the Saints at Midway in an exhibition game. I went to a couple. It was great. But not like seein the Mick. There was nothin quite like the Mick. I can see your son more in the John Rocker mode of leftys. Whataya think? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

Hillfan · Post by **Hillfan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:12 pm

Well the Twins lost a very tough one today, 1-0 to the last place Royals. Well on the positive side, the Twins set a franchise record, or maybe it isn't a good record. The Twins picked up 13 hits in a game in which they didn't even score a run. That is just disgusting. Kyle Lohse pitched a gem, 7 scoreless innings and of course received a no decision. Well, I don't know about these guys making the playoffs. Inconsistant play will not get it, and when they are scoring a run or two every game, then obviously it's going to be tough. Having Stewart and Hunter out has killed them. Let's hope maybe Stewart could come back and maybe some callups could spark a little Twins magic here in September.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:00 am

Losing 1-0 to the Royals in the middle of a race for a playoff spot is ridiculous. 13 hits and no runs. Thats hard to do. Sure, they have some guys hurt but come on. The thing that is really disturbing is they are being shut down by nobodys. If a team runs into a Colon and a Buehrle and a Halladay during a tough stretch thats one thing. But the Twins are being shut down by guys who I have never heard of. Hit the ball. Lets go.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:29 pm

Gardy goes on the radio Sunday and says he won't put Liriano in unless the game is out of hand. I had to chuckle thinking he HAS to be better than Mulholland, then today against his first batter in a 6-0 game he gives up the longest homer to left I have ever seen at the the Dome, BP or not. It had to be 550', Liriano goes on to get the next three batters and looked good doing it. Gardy may have gotten one right..... Playing .667 baseball should be enough, barely. Pick up the next two Twins. JIm Souhan had a nice column today, geez Mike Sweeney would look nice in a Twins uniform next year.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:24 pm

I dont think 2 out of 3 will get them in, goldy. They need to win at least 92/93 and then pray. If they win 20 of their last 25, theyd have a chance. That wont happen because they dont hit well enough, which is why they are in the position they are in. I say give Liriano a start or 2. What is it gonna hurt? Maybe if he went 7 innings , gave up 2 and lost 2-1, Ryan would figure out that young pitchers arent going to change anything. If Santana, pitching the way he has, can only win 13 games pitching for these guys...........

Hillfan · Post by **Hillfan** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:43 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If Santana, pitching the way he has, can only win 13 games pitching for these guys...........<hr></blockquote> You know it's really sad. Another 2nd half tear but this time he can't pick up the wins. His numbers in every catergory (with the exception of wins) have been fantastic and are obviously good enough for another Cy Young. We'll see what he can do in his last few starts as far as those victories go... I'll still follow the guys like I always do, but chances of playoffs this year are pretty weak. When you continuosly make guys like Kameron Loe look like Cy Young, then you know you're pretty weak with the bats. Lets just hope the Twins can make some trades in the offseason to acquire a good bat or two. I'm sure we'll see Baker and Liriano in the rotation next year.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:17 pm

Turn out the lights, now we can pretend were Cubs fans and wait until next year. Gardy threw in the towel a month a go I was just to stupid to see it. Hanging on by a thread in he plays Tyner? He's been out managed too many times this year. Given he has to play who Ryan gives him, but he still bumbled his way around the season....can't figure out a double switch, keeps throwing out guys who look lost at the plate, they can't bunt to save their lives, etc. This was a club that always thrived on fundamentals and they have been lost to many times this year. First Radke goes off, now Silva. Seems like some discension is brewing in that clubhouse.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:12 am

goldy, Its been a tough season for everybody. But Gardy keeps sending guys out there who look like they cant hit because that is what they have got. Why not try Tyner or whoever? It isnt like he has to bench Barry Bonds to give him some at bats. Everybody has struggled. No one has been consistent from the GM to the reserves. And with all that they are still 6 games over .500 with a chance to win 87/88 ball games. I cant help but imagine what this team would do if they just had a couple of good hitters. Just a couple of guys like Texas has all up and down the lineup.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:44 pm

Well, at least the Twins don't have Guzman at short this year. Radke got shelled today (I'm surprised Packerboy hasn't commented yet), but Joe Mays and Joe Nathan saved the day. I thought a good advertising campaign for the Twins at the start of the season could have been 'Not Your Average Joes' using Mauer, Nathan and Mays. If they don't sign or trade for some hitters in the off season they'll need a hefty advertising campaign to generate interest in this team next season. It seems like Texas would be a good team to talk trade with, as packerboy pointed out they're loaded with hitters, but they're desperate for pitching--they gave up 15 runs to the Twins in the last two games for pete's sake. I worry that they'll go cheap again but they need to sign at least one good veteran hitter. I'm also concerned about Morneau, his average is down to .238. When I saw the team play last Friday, it looked like the Indians C.C.Sabathia went away, away, away on him and Morneau could not drive the ball the other way with any authority. I'm wondering if that's the book on Morneau now, just keep it outside on him. My brother in law suggested that he may still be feeling the effects of getting hit in the head, at least psychologically. You guys who can watch the team more than I can (or who want to at this point) see if he's getting any inside pitches and if he's knocking it to the other field with authority. I think if he starts hitting some line drives to left field, some of his hitting problems will go away.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:25 pm

I'm not rerady to give up on Morneau quite yet, but I wouldn't be opposed to finding another 1B/DH either in the off season. The Twins have had a whole list of busts at 1B since Hrbek hung up the cleats and I hope Justin isn't falling in that line but am afriad he is. He shows just enough flash to keep him in the lineup but then falls off. As been mentioned before the Twins have just 3 guys who have consistant quality at bats on the roster; Mauer, Stewart, and Redmond. The scarry part is that 2 aren't even products of the Twins system, meaning somewhere there is a major flaw in development and/or scouting. With a team that has employed people like Carew, Oliva, and Molitor it seems almost surreal to watch these guys flail up at the plate. They've trotted a whole host of infielders up the past few years with little power which is one thing, but add to that they can't handle the bat either. Guzman, Rivas, Punto, Cuddyer, Rodriguez, Bartlett...would you trust anyone of them to lay down a sacrifice bunt? Losing Mientkiewicz and Koskie hurt this team alot more than anyone thought. In years past they might not have had the best talent, but you could count on enough players doing the little things right like laying down a bunt, going to the right side to get a runner from second to third, etc. to make up the difference for a free swinging Jaque Jones. Now they put out 6-7 free swingers everyday, it might work for the Yankees or Red Sox but they have a completely different approach to the game, knowing anyone in the lineup can knock one out can do that for a team. Playing "smallball" is fine, but you have to have people who can do it and the Twins just don't. Looking at the guys they brought up shows there isn't much if any help on the way. Tyner is 28, Heintz is 31, Abernathy is 28 and Tiffee is 26. All older than Luis Rivas is by the way. I agree with you Chris, the Twins have an abundance of arms and need to trade one or more and pick up a few bats.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:10 am

I agree with you guys. It isnt just a situation where guys are having off seasons or injuries, although there is a little of that. These guys just cant do it offensively. They need to get a 3rd basemen and an outfielder who can hit 25 HRs and knock in 100. As far as Morneau goes, its too early to tell. He is better defensively than I thought hed be but not as good offensively. Mauer can play, Hunter is Hunter, and Stewart is good. I like Bartlett at SS. Jones is OK. Other than that its all utility players. Combine that with good pitching and you win 85 games in an off year and 92 in a good year if your hitting is a little more timely. A trade that brings in a legitimate hitter, takes you up another notch. It has to get done.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:51 am

Goldy makes a good point. The Twins have not developed any good hitters in quite awhile, especially good power hitters. They've focused on pitching which is fine, but they need to turn some of that focus to hitting too. I worry that Morneau is going to end up like Marty Cordova, though he definitely has more punch than Cordova did. He seems to lack confidence at the plate right now. There's a good article in today's Strib that details what a rough year it's been for Morneau. Anyone see the reports that Kyle Lohse tried to bash Gardy's office door with a baseball bat after getting pulled after two innings in Thursday's game? Apparently he was upset about something Gardy said in the dugout after he was pulled.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:33 pm

I agree. It isnt like the Twins have lost a lot of good hitters through free agency. They havent had any go thru here that could hit. They lost Ortiz, I believe, because they didnt think he could hit that well and gave up on him. So, if you dont develop hitting but have an excess of pitching, which they do,..... what do you do? Trade or sign free agent (s). Why hasnt that been done? Its too early to call Morneau a Marty Cordoba but he should be doing better than he is right now. This has been a tough year for the Twins but ,as I have said before, things could be a lot worse than having a winning ballclub that wins 85 plus games. Lohse is a 4th or 5th starter. I doubt he will develop any farther than that. He probably was just as upset with his performance as being pulled. At least he gives a darn. After Radke got shelled , he probably just shook it off and tried to figure out how we could make some trades or juggle the lineup so we could score 7 when he gives up 6.

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