Section Playoffs Super Saturday 2-26-22 Games

[green4]

Surprised I haven't seen a post about Edina-Wayzata yet. A phenomenal high school hockey game. Tight-checking, but plenty of scoring chances. Physical, but not dirty. Outstanding goaltending. There were many embraces between Hornets and Trojans after the game. A ton of respect shown between two well-coached teams.

Overall I think people have grown tired of the Lake Conference teams with their Mega Youth Organizations dominating the AA field. Count me in if Benilde can beat Edina not a huge private fan but it would be awesome not to see EP, Wayzata, Edina, Tonka just for a change of pace.

Prior Lake and Chaksa and Chan Demographics wise appear to be taking over 2AA Tonka wont be going away but EP is on the downslide will be a Jefferson in another decade. Great to see new Blood

Class A Guy, you made a few of these comments in this thread about being excited to see new blood and I mostly saw it in the AA field. There was the comment about the same old moorhead vs roseau section final and a lot about the lake conference, and people backed you up in agreement, so I ws curious how bad it really is in AA or if you have a little class A bias showing.

Maybe from your perspective is it less class AA as a whole and more the lake conference, which is valid and I don't mean to single you out. This is all in good fun, but I have seen this comment before so I just wanted to break it down.

Before I start though, regarding the lake conference, there was a comment after Prior Lake and Chaska won about basically being glad anyone besides EP and Tonka. Just wanted to point out that Tonka has only gone to state twice going back to 2010, once in 2018 and once in 2010. Compare that with Edina's 8 trips, EP's 8 trips and Wayzata's 4. Im glad Chaska and PL will have a shot at their first trip, but I would not have minded Tonka because I feel like they don't go much. Thats less than schools like Eagan and Centennial and tied with Stillwater and Bemidji in that same time frame.
The last thing on the Lake Conference, I am an Edina guy and hope they beat Benilde but if they don't it looks like this will be the first year since 2005 that no Lake Conference team will be at state, which would be kind of cool.

Anyway, I broke down by section the amount of times each team has gone to state going back to 2010 for AA and A to see if the same old teams are going or how it breaks down. In doing that however, I noticed there were a few big changes that impacted how this data is displayed. One of them is in the 2016 year they shook up sections 2AA and 6AA a bunch. Basically before 2016 Edina was in 2AA and kind of had a free pass, there were obviously some really good Burnsville teams and a Jefferson team that was really good one year, but they both struggled with Edina. Compared to 6AA which was pretty even between Wayzata, EP, Tonka, and Benilde. But after the shift, Edina moves to 6AA with Wayzata and Benilde where that has been an even section while 2AA got Ep and Tonka but EP has taken the place of Edina and dominated that section.

The other big changes were after the 2013 season when Hermantown switched from 5A to 7A (I had forgotten they were in that section and looking back on it is pretty wild that they were) and then the biggest change was St. Thomas moving up too AA. Because of that change I provided the data going back to 2010 but then I recalculated going back to just 2014 as well. Due to the big changes starting in the 2014 season, that is probably the data that feels more usable to me, but both are there for you to use.

So the breakdown is as follows:

Section 1A:
Number of teams sent to state since 2010: 7 (Rochester Lourdes 4 times, Mankato East 2, New Prague 2, Northfield 1, Mankato West 1, Minnesota River 1, Dodge County 1)
Number of teams sent to state since 2014: 6 (Mankato East 2, New Prague 2, Northfield 1, Mankato West 1, Minnesota River 1, Dodge County 1)

This section by coincidence I am assuming looks a lot different from 2014 on given that Lourdes went to state each year from 2010 to 2013 and has not been back since. It is one of the most diverse sections sending 6 different teams since 2014, but they have not done very well once they are at state, which might be a theme to look for.
This years section final will be New Prague vs Albert Lea. New Prague seems to be the favorite, but I am not a class A mind. If they go, they will take over as first since 2014 and 2nd since 2010 with their last visit since 2015. Albert Lea would be fun to see since I don't know when they last went. But either team seems like they will struggle in the first round this year.

Section 2A:
Number of teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (Breck 6, Delano 4, Orono 2)
Teams sent since 2014: 3 (Delano 4, Breck 2, Orono 2)

This section was obviously dominated by Breck until about 2016. Breck went to state from 2010-2016 6 times with only Orono going once in that stretch. Not sure what year Breck stopped prioritizing hockey, I thought it was more recent than 2017, but regardless, the last 5 years have been dominated by Delano where they have gone 4 of the last 5 years only being replaced by Orono once. This section is a bit repetitive to me given that it was dominated by one team for the early half and now dominated by another more recently.
This year's section final is Minneapolis vs. Delano. Would obviously be awesome to see Minneapolis given what has gone on there with hockey. They would be competitive too. They beat Delano this year I remember, but Delano seems to be the favorite going into this one.

Section 3A:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 5 (New Ulm 5, LDC 3, Luvurne 2, Hutch 1, Marshall 1)
Teams sent since 2014: 4 (LDC 3, New Ulm 2, Luverne 2, Hutch 1)

This section saw New Ulm go 3 years in a row from 2010 to 2012, but since no team has gone two years in a row. That makes this section one of the more unique and diverse. I was surprised that Luverne only went twice when they had their pretty good teams with Nelson and the other guy whose name I am forgetting.
This years final will be Mankato East vs New Ulm. So there was obviously a bit of a shake up in the teams in this section as it seems to represent more of southwest Minnesota with Hutchinson and LDC taken out of the section. Mankato East last went in 2020 in section 1 and New Ulm went in 2019.

Section 4A:

Teams to state since 2010: 5 (Mahtomedi 6, St. Thomas Academy 3, Totino-Grace 1, St. Paul Academy 1, Gentry 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Mahtomedi 5, Totino Grace 1, St. Paul Academy 1, Gentry 1)

Class A was dominated by St. Thomas and so was this section. It is obviously good that St. Thomas is now in AA, but Totino and Gentry are also both now in AA. It makes what is maybe a middle of the pack section with how unpredictable it could be to maybe the 2nd worst? Since 2014 it has been Mahtomedi's section, but they have been tested im sure. But without STA, Totino and Gentry, will they be tested going forward?
I am not sure on the demographics of Mahtomedi in regards if they are growing or shrinking, I know they are the biggest single A school so maybe they are forced up to AA at some point, but if they stay in A then this section seems pretty predictable going forward unless something changes.
We are in the semi-final right now and seems like Mahtomedi is the big favorite, but will need to beat Two Rivers (formerly Henry Sibley) in the semi's and then Chisago or Simley. Chisago went in 2014 in section 5A and the others I don't have info on going back to 2010. Would be fun to see another team but if a team besides Mahtomedi goes, might be a tough first round.

Section 5A:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 7 (Hermantown 4, Monticello 3, Chisago Lakes 1, Spring Lake Park 1, Princeton 1, North Branch 1, Northern Lakes 1)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 6 (Monticello 3, Chisago Lakes 1, Spring Lake Park 1, Princeton 1, North Branch 1, Northern Lakes 1)

The fact that Hermatown has the most trips since 2010 in this section is kind of funny. Spoiler alert, but Hermantown will be the only team to have the most trips to state in two different sections. Since Hermantown has left this section has been pretty open with Monticello/MAML going most often. This section has also seen a bit of a shake up with former 6A teams joining it.
This years final is St. Cloud Catherdral vs Monticello. Both teams last went to state in 2020 and based on some posts, sounds like Cathedral will win this game and that they "Will dominate this section for years to come" which is too bad because they have dominated 6A pretty recently and might turn this diverse section into another one where the same team goes each year.

Section 6A:

Teams sent since 2010: 4 (St. Cloud Cathedral 5, Alexandria 3, St. Cloud Apollo 2, Little Falls 2)
Teams Sent since 2014: 4 (St. Cloud Cathedral 5, Alexandria 1, St. Cloud Apollo 1, Little Falls 1)

Cathedral has been the best team in this section since 2014 but is now in 5A, Little Falls also in 5A and Apollo no longer a program, it should open up for some new teams. Alexandria last went to state in 2018 and had two more visits in 2010 and 2011. This section final will be Fergus Falls vs Alexandria and it would be fun to see a new team like Fergus. I am not sure what happens with this section over time, seems like Northern Lakes has some good Bantam and Pee Wee teams coming.

Section 7A:

Teams sent since 2010: 5 (Hermantown 7, Duluth Marshall 2, Hibbing 1, Virginia 1, Greenway 1)
Teams sent since 2014: 2 (Hermantown 7, Greenway 1)

This section is the only one since 2014 to only have two teams go to state. In regards to having the same team each year, it is the worst in either class. Looking at state results from 2010-2013 Hermantown played the section 7a winner 3 of the 4 years and beat them every year and the one year they didn't they probably were the better team. Im guessing if Hermantown was in this section back to 2010 they would have gone to state 10 times. I don't want to turn this into a Hermantown should be in AA, but they are clearly better than everyone else in this section and it is too bad. We have missed out on a good couple Denfield and Hibbing teams and hopefully that's not the case much longer.

Section 8A:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (EGF 6, TRF 4, Warroad 2)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 3 (EGF 5, TRF 2, Warroad 1)

I was pretty surprised to see that Warroad has not done very well in this section of late. I know they were upset a few times and EGF had a couple real good groups of players but I guess I never realized that they were struggling the most of these 3.
This years final will be Warroad and TRF where Warroad is the favorite. Would be nice to see Warroad so they can compete with Hermantown but this section is the same 3 every year and I don't think that will change much.

Section 1AA:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (Lakeville North 6, Lakeville South 5, Farmington 1)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 3 (Lakeville South 4, Lakeville North 3, Farmington 1)

This section is pretty bad, you hope another team with some talent finds its way into this section. Too bad all those years Burnsville was good they weren't in here playing the Lakevilles. I hope Rochester produces some good hockey soon, but I believe demographics say otherwise, but who knows.
The other part about this section that kind of stinks is something I heard Karl say on the podcast, neither of these teams are good at the same time. From 2010 to 2015 North went 5 of the 6 Years, Farmington went in 2016 and then south has gone 4 of the last 5 and will likely Make is 5 of the last 6 this year.

Section 2AA:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (Edina 6, EP 5, Minnetonka 1)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 3 (EP 5, Edina 2, Minnetonka 1)

This section was discussed a bit earlier but it was dominated by Edina until they realigned the section for the 2016 year. After they realigned it I think most people thought it would balance out a stacked 6AA and a weaker 2AA but EP has dominated much like Edina had. EP obviously had some special player come through but I think going forward this section should even out. Tonka, Chaska and Chanhassen all have demographics on their side. Holy Family probably profits from that area becoming good, Shakopee is suppose to be rising and EP will probably be falling. Not so sure about Prior Lake, I don't feel like I have heard about their youth success lately like I have Chaska/Chan so perhaps I root for them this year over Chaska.
But regardless we will have a first time team in this section going to state and a team not named EP since 2018.

Section 3AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 5 (St. Thomas Academy 6, Eagan 3, Eastview 1, Burnsville 1, Apple Valley 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 3 (St. Thomas Academy 6, Eagan 1, Burnsville 1)

This section benefits greatly from Cretin moving into it. The fact that they were in 2AA or 6AA was a joke. Its also too bad Burnsville was not in this section when they were having their last good couple years. Took some really good teams out of state by not having them in this section.
Eagan had some good teams in the early 2010's but looking at YHH they are not in their rankings. I feel like they should be better at hockey, but this section does not look very diverse going forward. Seems like St. Thomas will be the best team in the coming years and hopefully Cretin can be a constant challenge for them.
But this year we will have a new team with Cretin's first trip since 2007 I think, or Eastview who last came out of this section in 2013.

Section 4AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 3 (Hill-Murray 8, Stillwater 2, White Bear Lake 2
Teams to state since 2014: 3 (Hill Murray 5, Stillwater 2, White Bear Lake 1)

This section I think Hill just has a strangle hold on. They are so good each year that all the public school kids from this area just go play at Hill it seems. Stillwater is getting better and Woodbury has good youth teams, but where will those kids end up? Gentry joining the section might be interesting, but if Hill keeps getting top kids, I have a hard time seeing them not winning this section over 50% of the time.

Section 5AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 4 (Blaine 4, Maple Grove 4, Centennial 3, Anoka 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Maple Grove 3, Blaine 2, Centennial 2, Anoka 1)

This is probably the most diverse section in AA. Maple Grove went to state back to back the last two years, Centennial did it in 2013 and 2014, Blaine did it in 2010 and 2011, but we have no 3 peat champs so we will have to see if Maple Grove can do it this year or if we will have a new team in rogers join state. This section has a lot of team rotation between who is good, with Blaine now in 7AA but Maple Grove, Rogers and Champlin park having good youth teams, plus Totino able to pick up some talent from these schools, this could be a deep section going forward. The question has always been how do they do at state? Maple Grove has had some real good teams of late but 5AA has struggled at state recently.

Section 6AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 6 (Wayzata 4, EP 3, Edina 2, Blake 1, Minnetonka 1, Benilde 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Wayzata 3, EP, 2 Edina 2, Blake 1)

This section is super deep and the talent has changed from year to year. Blake has a good group come through, Edina won state and then had some down years, Benilde had the undefeated regular season and then lost in sections, Holy Angles seems to be getting better too.
Edina vs Benilde for the championship this year could be Edina's first appearance since 2019 and Benilde's first since 2012 when they won it all.

Section 7AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 3 (Duluth East 8, Andover 2, Grand Rapids 2)
Teams to state since 2014: 3 (Duluth East 4, Andover 2, Grand Rapids 2)

This section has been pretty thin lately with the drop off of Cloquet, Duluth Marshall and now even East. They add Blaine but they are not what they once were. Andover's bantam team looks good but their peewee is average, East's youth teams don't seem amazing, Grand Rapids' teams lose a lot after this year and I am not sure they have the youth. Even Hermantown's youth teams don't seem that great, but if Hermantown was scared of going to state against GR and East you would think they could move to AA given the current climate.
Anyway, this section seems pretty thin going forward and I hope Grand Rapids makes it this year.

Section 8AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 4 (Moorhead 7, Bemidji 2, Roseau 2, STMA 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Moorhead 4, Bemidji 2, Roseau 1, STMA 1)

Moorhead is the most consistent team in this section each year and given their youth rankings, will probably be the team to beat for a bit. Sounds like this was Roseau's last shot for awhile and that is a shame, would her love to seen them this year with a decent shot to make some noise. Bemidji does have some nice youth teams it looks like which will be exciting. STMA also does but being they are basically a metro team, that's not so exciting.
This year we will have Moorhead vs Elk River, and with all those good teams Elk River had I am still surprised they have not gone to state since 2005. I am not sure they are good enough this year though that I would want to see them over moorhead this year, but it would be cool to see them back.


In my own opinion, AA is probably a bit worse in the sense of the same teams are going to state, but it is closer than one might think. And once they are at state I think single A is noticeable worse in what teams are competitive at state. Any team could win state in AA from any section, but I don't think that is the case in A so its nice to see the new teams that A can offer but if they are only there for one running time game, is it that great?

In single A sections 1, 3 and 5 are pretty diverse right now, but Northfield has good youth that could lock down 1 and St. Cloud Cathedral might lock down 5 based on people's comments.

In Single A sections 4 and 7 are not competitive right now and unless something changes with those big programs those will be ugly.

In AA sections 1 and 3 are two team sections right now and probably going forward.
Section 7 is a bit more diverse but in each given year with down teams it feels like only 2 teams are that competitive since east has been down. This section is trending th wrong way.
Section 4 is similar to 7 in that only one team each year seems like a real challenge to Hill, its rare that White Bear and Stillwater are really good at the same time, and this year both are average. With Gentry joining and some decent youth teams, this section could get better in the future.

Section 8 I think will hold steady in that it's moorhead's section but a few teams will get better and push on them.

Section 2 has been competitive but one team has dominated, but I think that will change going forward.

Sections 5 and 6 have been competitive of late and should be competitive going forward.

I will let you guys come up with your own thoughts, but I don't think AA is much worse off than single A in this regard.

[ClassAGuy]

Surprised I haven't seen a post about Edina-Wayzata yet. A phenomenal high school hockey game. Tight-checking, but plenty of scoring chances. Physical, but not dirty. Outstanding goaltending. There were many embraces between Hornets and Trojans after the game. A ton of respect shown between two well-coached teams.

Overall I think people have grown tired of the Lake Conference teams with their Mega Youth Organizations dominating the AA field. Count me in if Benilde can beat Edina not a huge private fan but it would be awesome not to see EP, Wayzata, Edina, Tonka just for a change of pace.

Prior Lake and Chaksa and Chan Demographics wise appear to be taking over 2AA Tonka wont be going away but EP is on the downslide will be a Jefferson in another decade. Great to see new Blood

Class A Guy, you made a few of these comments in this thread about being excited to see new blood and I mostly saw it in the AA field. There was the comment about the same old moorhead vs roseau section final and a lot about the lake conference, and people backed you up in agreement, so I ws curious how bad it really is in AA or if you have a little class A bias showing.

green4- Awesome POST!

First off I am VERY Biased too Class A over AA. Just a personal thing. AA is a better brand and not arguing that. Just passion for Class A so yes my comments are biased.

As far as AA goes its just a lot of the same at the AA level which doesn't mean its bad jut to me its kind of not as interesting.

Class A has its own issue right now they have Hermantown, 8A Champ & Mahtomedi and everyone else

1A- Northfeild and New Prague Appear to be dominate forces as long as they avoid the AA cutoff which wont be long...
2A- Delano is turned into dominate program with Breck falling apart. MPLS rooting for you!
3A - Mankato's and New Ulm
4A- Mahtomedi
5A- SCC
6A- Alexandria
7A- Hermantown
8A- Warroad, EGF, TRF

Enrollments are a bigger factor and different discussion for a different day.

Thats why i am hoping for the Otter and MPLS because if not it will be more of the same.

If AA offers us CDH, Rogers and Prior Lake it would be a great change of pace

No offsense to Edina, Wayata, EP and Tonka who dominate the AA public school championship Department....

But Prior Lake, Chanhassen, Chaska Shakopee appears to be on the Verge of changing the story

Again your Post is gold A is just as bad as AA just enjoy the A brand more.

[BlueLineSpecial]

Thanks for your post, Green4. I'm sure a lot of research went into that and it's interesting to see. I've said on a number of occasions previously, and I'll say it again: there are a lot of myths floating around and most hold little to zero water.

Myth 1: The same old teams make it to State every year. Your post I think debunks this. By my count and using your post, there have been 28 different AA teams that have been to State since 2010. How many current AA teams are there? I think it's 67. So in just the last 11 years, 42% of AA teams have made it to State. Thats a lot, considering there are a good deal of programs that will simply never be in the mix, for a variety of reasons.

Myth 2: The same handful of teams win the championship every year. This is more true in A than in AA, mostly because there have been teams like Hermantown, STA, Breck and Benilde who racked up A trophies in quick succession. In AA, there have been 13 different champions in 19 years (since 2002).

Myth 3: The State tournament is dominated by metro teams. How many 'non-metro' teams are in AA? It isn't very many - Bemidji, Roseau, Sartell, Brainard, Moorhead, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, Cloquet, and then the handful of southern MN teams that historically have never been hockey-hotbeds, ever. So maybe a dozen non greater-metro-area teams? That means less than 20% of AA teams would be considered non-metro. So, sure, the AA tourney is dominated by metro teams, but simply because thats where the vast majority of AA teams are - the metro! If you don't like watching metro teams, then you might want to try watching class A more, because over 80% of the squads in AA are metro teams so it's just inevitable.

Myth 4: Private schools dominate the landscape now and community-based hockey is disappearing. I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of folks, but the reality is that private schools in AA just simply don't dominate. Since 2009 there's been a whopping two AA championships that have gone to private schools. From my count there are 9, maybe 10 private schools in AA - so about 15% of the teams in AA are private. Private teams have won 2 titles in the last 13 years, for a total of....drumroll.....about 15% of the titles in that time. Perfectly comparable % of titles to % of teams.

I think the AA state tournament is as good as ever - with a solid diversity of teams making state, championships won by a lot of different teams, limited private success that is comparable to their representative number of teams, and with northern teams winning titles and going to state at a comparable level to their representative number of teams in AA as well.

[hitthepost]

Regarding the future of 1AA. North and South AA
Level youth teams are very weak, so the playing field for 1AA might become more level in the next few years and be able to see some new blood at the X.

[elliott70]

Section 6A:

Teams sent since 2010: 4 (St. Cloud Cathedral 5, Alexandria 3, St. Cloud Apollo 2, Little Falls 2)
Teams Sent since 2014: 4 (St. Cloud Cathedral 5, Alexandria 1, St. Cloud Apollo 1, Little Falls 1)

Cathedral has been the best team in this section since 2014 but is now in 5A, Little Falls also in 5A and Apollo no longer a program, it should open up for some new teams. Alexandria last went to state in 2018 and had two more visits in 2010 and 2011. This section final will be Fergus Falls vs Alexandria and it would be fun to see a new team like Fergus. I am not sure what happens with this section over time, seems like Northern Lakes has some good Bantam and Pee Wee teams coming.

It would not be Fergus Falls' first time.
They dominated in the late 90’s into the 2000’s.
I believe 7 trips in a row.

[raidergrad72]

Good to see this thread getting lively yesterday, and a pleasure to meet raidergrad at Amsoil last night. (That was certainly more entertaining than the games were!)

Thanks, buddy! I'm sometimes equated with being as exciting as watching paint dry!

[headsupsticksdown]

Surprised I haven't seen a post about Edina-Wayzata yet. A phenomenal high school hockey game. Tight-checking, but plenty of scoring chances. Physical, but not dirty. Outstanding goaltending. There were many embraces between Hornets and Trojans after the game. A ton of respect shown between two well-coached teams.

Overall I think people have grown tired of the Lake Conference teams with their Mega Youth Organizations dominating the AA field. Count me in if Benilde can beat Edina not a huge private fan but it would be awesome not to see EP, Wayzata, Edina, Tonka just for a change of pace.

Prior Lake and Chaksa and Chan Demographics wise appear to be taking over 2AA Tonka wont be going away but EP is on the downslide will be a Jefferson in another decade. Great to see new Blood

Class A Guy, you made a few of these comments in this thread about being excited to see new blood and I mostly saw it in the AA field. There was the comment about the same old moorhead vs roseau section final and a lot about the lake conference, and people backed you up in agreement, so I ws curious how bad it really is in AA or if you have a little class A bias showing.

Maybe from your perspective is it less class AA as a whole and more the lake conference, which is valid and I don't mean to single you out. This is all in good fun, but I have seen this comment before so I just wanted to break it down.

Before I start though, regarding the lake conference, there was a comment after Prior Lake and Chaska won about basically being glad anyone besides EP and Tonka. Just wanted to point out that Tonka has only gone to state twice going back to 2010, once in 2018 and once in 2010. Compare that with Edina's 8 trips, EP's 8 trips and Wayzata's 4. Im glad Chaska and PL will have a shot at their first trip, but I would not have minded Tonka because I feel like they don't go much. Thats less than schools like Eagan and Centennial and tied with Stillwater and Bemidji in that same time frame.
The last thing on the Lake Conference, I am an Edina guy and hope they beat Benilde but if they don't it looks like this will be the first year since 2005 that no Lake Conference team will be at state, which would be kind of cool.

Anyway, I broke down by section the amount of times each team has gone to state going back to 2010 for AA and A to see if the same old teams are going or how it breaks down. In doing that however, I noticed there were a few big changes that impacted how this data is displayed. One of them is in the 2016 year they shook up sections 2AA and 6AA a bunch. Basically before 2016 Edina was in 2AA and kind of had a free pass, there were obviously some really good Burnsville teams and a Jefferson team that was really good one year, but they both struggled with Edina. Compared to 6AA which was pretty even between Wayzata, EP, Tonka, and Benilde. But after the shift, Edina moves to 6AA with Wayzata and Benilde where that has been an even section while 2AA got Ep and Tonka but EP has taken the place of Edina and dominated that section.

The other big changes were after the 2013 season when Hermantown switched from 5A to 7A (I had forgotten they were in that section and looking back on it is pretty wild that they were) and then the biggest change was St. Thomas moving up too AA. Because of that change I provided the data going back to 2010 but then I recalculated going back to just 2014 as well. Due to the big changes starting in the 2014 season, that is probably the data that feels more usable to me, but both are there for you to use.

So the breakdown is as follows:

Section 1A:
Number of teams sent to state since 2010: 7 (Rochester Lourdes 4 times, Mankato East 2, New Prague 2, Northfield 1, Mankato West 1, Minnesota River 1, Dodge County 1)
Number of teams sent to state since 2014: 6 (Mankato East 2, New Prague 2, Northfield 1, Mankato West 1, Minnesota River 1, Dodge County 1)

This section by coincidence I am assuming looks a lot different from 2014 on given that Lourdes went to state each year from 2010 to 2013 and has not been back since. It is one of the most diverse sections sending 6 different teams since 2014, but they have not done very well once they are at state, which might be a theme to look for.
This years section final will be New Prague vs Albert Lea. New Prague seems to be the favorite, but I am not a class A mind. If they go, they will take over as first since 2014 and 2nd since 2010 with their last visit since 2015. Albert Lea would be fun to see since I don't know when they last went. But either team seems like they will struggle in the first round this year.

Section 2A:
Number of teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (Breck 6, Delano 4, Orono 2)
Teams sent since 2014: 3 (Delano 4, Breck 2, Orono 2)

This section was obviously dominated by Breck until about 2016. Breck went to state from 2010-2016 6 times with only Orono going once in that stretch. Not sure what year Breck stopped prioritizing hockey, I thought it was more recent than 2017, but regardless, the last 5 years have been dominated by Delano where they have gone 4 of the last 5 years only being replaced by Orono once. This section is a bit repetitive to me given that it was dominated by one team for the early half and now dominated by another more recently.
This year's section final is Minneapolis vs. Delano. Would obviously be awesome to see Minneapolis given what has gone on there with hockey. They would be competitive too. They beat Delano this year I remember, but Delano seems to be the favorite going into this one.

Section 3A:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 5 (New Ulm 5, LDC 3, Luvurne 2, Hutch 1, Marshall 1)
Teams sent since 2014: 4 (LDC 3, New Ulm 2, Luverne 2, Hutch 1)

This section saw New Ulm go 3 years in a row from 2010 to 2012, but since no team has gone two years in a row. That makes this section one of the more unique and diverse. I was surprised that Luverne only went twice when they had their pretty good teams with Nelson and the other guy whose name I am forgetting.
This years final will be Mankato East vs New Ulm. So there was obviously a bit of a shake up in the teams in this section as it seems to represent more of southwest Minnesota with Hutchinson and LDC taken out of the section. Mankato East last went in 2020 in section 1 and New Ulm went in 2019.

Section 4A:

Teams to state since 2010: 5 (Mahtomedi 6, St. Thomas Academy 3, Totino-Grace 1, St. Paul Academy 1, Gentry 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Mahtomedi 5, Totino Grace 1, St. Paul Academy 1, Gentry 1)

Class A was dominated by St. Thomas and so was this section. It is obviously good that St. Thomas is now in AA, but Totino and Gentry are also both now in AA. It makes what is maybe a middle of the pack section with how unpredictable it could be to maybe the 2nd worst? Since 2014 it has been Mahtomedi's section, but they have been tested im sure. But without STA, Totino and Gentry, will they be tested going forward?
I am not sure on the demographics of Mahtomedi in regards if they are growing or shrinking, I know they are the biggest single A school so maybe they are forced up to AA at some point, but if they stay in A then this section seems pretty predictable going forward unless something changes.
We are in the semi-final right now and seems like Mahtomedi is the big favorite, but will need to beat Two Rivers (formerly Henry Sibley) in the semi's and then Chisago or Simley. Chisago went in 2014 in section 5A and the others I don't have info on going back to 2010. Would be fun to see another team but if a team besides Mahtomedi goes, might be a tough first round.

Section 5A:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 7 (Hermantown 4, Monticello 3, Chisago Lakes 1, Spring Lake Park 1, Princeton 1, North Branch 1, Northern Lakes 1)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 6 (Monticello 3, Chisago Lakes 1, Spring Lake Park 1, Princeton 1, North Branch 1, Northern Lakes 1)

The fact that Hermatown has the most trips since 2010 in this section is kind of funny. Spoiler alert, but Hermantown will be the only team to have the most trips to state in two different sections. Since Hermantown has left this section has been pretty open with Monticello/MAML going most often. This section has also seen a bit of a shake up with former 6A teams joining it.
This years final is St. Cloud Catherdral vs Monticello. Both teams last went to state in 2020 and based on some posts, sounds like Cathedral will win this game and that they "Will dominate this section for years to come" which is too bad because they have dominated 6A pretty recently and might turn this diverse section into another one where the same team goes each year.

Section 6A:

Teams sent since 2010: 4 (St. Cloud Cathedral 5, Alexandria 3, St. Cloud Apollo 2, Little Falls 2)
Teams Sent since 2014: 4 (St. Cloud Cathedral 5, Alexandria 1, St. Cloud Apollo 1, Little Falls 1)

Cathedral has been the best team in this section since 2014 but is now in 5A, Little Falls also in 5A and Apollo no longer a program, it should open up for some new teams. Alexandria last went to state in 2018 and had two more visits in 2010 and 2011. This section final will be Fergus Falls vs Alexandria and it would be fun to see a new team like Fergus. I am not sure what happens with this section over time, seems like Northern Lakes has some good Bantam and Pee Wee teams coming.

Section 7A:

Teams sent since 2010: 5 (Hermantown 7, Duluth Marshall 2, Hibbing 1, Virginia 1, Greenway 1)
Teams sent since 2014: 2 (Hermantown 7, Greenway 1)

This section is the only one since 2014 to only have two teams go to state. In regards to having the same team each year, it is the worst in either class. Looking at state results from 2010-2013 Hermantown played the section 7a winner 3 of the 4 years and beat them every year and the one year they didn't they probably were the better team. Im guessing if Hermantown was in this section back to 2010 they would have gone to state 10 times. I don't want to turn this into a Hermantown should be in AA, but they are clearly better than everyone else in this section and it is too bad. We have missed out on a good couple Denfield and Hibbing teams and hopefully that's not the case much longer.

Section 8A:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (EGF 6, TRF 4, Warroad 2)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 3 (EGF 5, TRF 2, Warroad 1)

I was pretty surprised to see that Warroad has not done very well in this section of late. I know they were upset a few times and EGF had a couple real good groups of players but I guess I never realized that they were struggling the most of these 3.
This years final will be Warroad and TRF where Warroad is the favorite. Would be nice to see Warroad so they can compete with Hermantown but this section is the same 3 every year and I don't think that will change much.

Section 1AA:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (Lakeville North 6, Lakeville South 5, Farmington 1)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 3 (Lakeville South 4, Lakeville North 3, Farmington 1)

This section is pretty bad, you hope another team with some talent finds its way into this section. Too bad all those years Burnsville was good they weren't in here playing the Lakevilles. I hope Rochester produces some good hockey soon, but I believe demographics say otherwise, but who knows.
The other part about this section that kind of stinks is something I heard Karl say on the podcast, neither of these teams are good at the same time. From 2010 to 2015 North went 5 of the 6 Years, Farmington went in 2016 and then south has gone 4 of the last 5 and will likely Make is 5 of the last 6 this year.

Section 2AA:

Teams sent to state since 2010: 3 (Edina 6, EP 5, Minnetonka 1)
Teams sent to state since 2014: 3 (EP 5, Edina 2, Minnetonka 1)

This section was discussed a bit earlier but it was dominated by Edina until they realigned the section for the 2016 year. After they realigned it I think most people thought it would balance out a stacked 6AA and a weaker 2AA but EP has dominated much like Edina had. EP obviously had some special player come through but I think going forward this section should even out. Tonka, Chaska and Chanhassen all have demographics on their side. Holy Family probably profits from that area becoming good, Shakopee is suppose to be rising and EP will probably be falling. Not so sure about Prior Lake, I don't feel like I have heard about their youth success lately like I have Chaska/Chan so perhaps I root for them this year over Chaska.
But regardless we will have a first time team in this section going to state and a team not named EP since 2018.

Section 3AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 5 (St. Thomas Academy 6, Eagan 3, Eastview 1, Burnsville 1, Apple Valley 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 3 (St. Thomas Academy 6, Eagan 1, Burnsville 1)

This section benefits greatly from Cretin moving into it. The fact that they were in 2AA or 6AA was a joke. Its also too bad Burnsville was not in this section when they were having their last good couple years. Took some really good teams out of state by not having them in this section.
Eagan had some good teams in the early 2010's but looking at YHH they are not in their rankings. I feel like they should be better at hockey, but this section does not look very diverse going forward. Seems like St. Thomas will be the best team in the coming years and hopefully Cretin can be a constant challenge for them.
But this year we will have a new team with Cretin's first trip since 2007 I think, or Eastview who last came out of this section in 2013.

Section 4AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 3 (Hill-Murray 8, Stillwater 2, White Bear Lake 2
Teams to state since 2014: 3 (Hill Murray 5, Stillwater 2, White Bear Lake 1)

This section I think Hill just has a strangle hold on. They are so good each year that all the public school kids from this area just go play at Hill it seems. Stillwater is getting better and Woodbury has good youth teams, but where will those kids end up? Gentry joining the section might be interesting, but if Hill keeps getting top kids, I have a hard time seeing them not winning this section over 50% of the time.

Section 5AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 4 (Blaine 4, Maple Grove 4, Centennial 3, Anoka 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Maple Grove 3, Blaine 2, Centennial 2, Anoka 1)

This is probably the most diverse section in AA. Maple Grove went to state back to back the last two years, Centennial did it in 2013 and 2014, Blaine did it in 2010 and 2011, but we have no 3 peat champs so we will have to see if Maple Grove can do it this year or if we will have a new team in rogers join state. This section has a lot of team rotation between who is good, with Blaine now in 7AA but Maple Grove, Rogers and Champlin park having good youth teams, plus Totino able to pick up some talent from these schools, this could be a deep section going forward. The question has always been how do they do at state? Maple Grove has had some real good teams of late but 5AA has struggled at state recently.

Section 6AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 6 (Wayzata 4, EP 3, Edina 2, Blake 1, Minnetonka 1, Benilde 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Wayzata 3, EP, 2 Edina 2, Blake 1)

This section is super deep and the talent has changed from year to year. Blake has a good group come through, Edina won state and then had some down years, Benilde had the undefeated regular season and then lost in sections, Holy Angles seems to be getting better too.
Edina vs Benilde for the championship this year could be Edina's first appearance since 2019 and Benilde's first since 2012 when they won it all.

Section 7AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 3 (Duluth East 8, Andover 2, Grand Rapids 2)
Teams to state since 2014: 3 (Duluth East 4, Andover 2, Grand Rapids 2)

This section has been pretty thin lately with the drop off of Cloquet, Duluth Marshall and now even East. They add Blaine but they are not what they once were. Andover's bantam team looks good but their peewee is average, East's youth teams don't seem amazing, Grand Rapids' teams lose a lot after this year and I am not sure they have the youth. Even Hermantown's youth teams don't seem that great, but if Hermantown was scared of going to state against GR and East you would think they could move to AA given the current climate.
Anyway, this section seems pretty thin going forward and I hope Grand Rapids makes it this year.

Section 8AA:

Teams to state since 2010: 4 (Moorhead 7, Bemidji 2, Roseau 2, STMA 1)
Teams to state since 2014: 4 (Moorhead 4, Bemidji 2, Roseau 1, STMA 1)

Moorhead is the most consistent team in this section each year and given their youth rankings, will probably be the team to beat for a bit. Sounds like this was Roseau's last shot for awhile and that is a shame, would her love to seen them this year with a decent shot to make some noise. Bemidji does have some nice youth teams it looks like which will be exciting. STMA also does but being they are basically a metro team, that's not so exciting.
This year we will have Moorhead vs Elk River, and with all those good teams Elk River had I am still surprised they have not gone to state since 2005. I am not sure they are good enough this year though that I would want to see them over moorhead this year, but it would be cool to see them back.


In my own opinion, AA is probably a bit worse in the sense of the same teams are going to state, but it is closer than one might think. And once they are at state I think single A is noticeable worse in what teams are competitive at state. Any team could win state in AA from any section, but I don't think that is the case in A so its nice to see the new teams that A can offer but if they are only there for one running time game, is it that great?

In single A sections 1, 3 and 5 are pretty diverse right now, but Northfield has good youth that could lock down 1 and St. Cloud Cathedral might lock down 5 based on people's comments.

In Single A sections 4 and 7 are not competitive right now and unless something changes with those big programs those will be ugly.

In AA sections 1 and 3 are two team sections right now and probably going forward.
Section 7 is a bit more diverse but in each given year with down teams it feels like only 2 teams are that competitive since east has been down. This section is trending th wrong way.
Section 4 is similar to 7 in that only one team each year seems like a real challenge to Hill, its rare that White Bear and Stillwater are really good at the same time, and this year both are average. With Gentry joining and some decent youth teams, this section could get better in the future.

Section 8 I think will hold steady in that it's moorhead's section but a few teams will get better and push on them.

Section 2 has been competitive but one team has dominated, but I think that will change going forward.

Sections 5 and 6 have been competitive of late and should be competitive going forward.

I will let you guys come up with your own thoughts, but I don't think AA is much worse off than single A in this regard.

Holy smokes this was a solid post with a lot of interesting data points, thanks for posting!!

You mentioned it as well and I've seen it posted here a few times, but I'm curious why so many believe EP is on the fall? Is this the numbers at the youth level? Is it the lack of success at the younger age levels? Lee Smith being gone? The number argument is certainly valid as EP definitely has a much smaller program than CC, Tonka and neighboring Edina and Wayzata. Heck, last time I checked I believe even Shakopee may have more numbers or are fairly close to EP. EP certainly hasn't seen any super strong teams at the SQ or even PW level as of late, but EP has always been a strong program from Bantams on up through the HS level--I'm sure some will chime in here as to why, but I'll leave that alone as it's been mentioned numerous times.

An interesting factor to discuss maybe not here is the Breakaway situation. With Breakaway having their lower grades based out of Chaska and then temporarily moving the upper grades to Lifetime and then ultimately in their permanent location at Champions Hall, any kid that attends Breakaway can now play for EP. Previously, kids attending Breakaway could only attend the association their home address is tied to as their school (paper wise) was based in Chaska. This gave a huge advantage to the CC youth program, but now that kids can now attend EP can we expect an increase in numbers for EP? I can see how some are against this as some few this as a risk that kids attend one program and then end up bailing somewhere else for HS, or nut job parents going crazy because some kid outside of EP boundaries may come in and take Johnnys spot, but it's become the norm across the landscape these days...

[Cookster]

My belief is that EP has a chance to be good over the next 2-3 years, and then they will go the direction of Bloomington. Their 11th grade class has 4 skaters and a goalie who played Varsity or JV this year. Their 10th grade class is solid (Won PeeWee AA title, and did well at Bantam AA last year), and the 9th grade class has some potential top end talent.

After that, the cupboard appears to be dry for a few years. EP has had a major demographic switch, there was a period of a couple of years where there was not enough focus on the Mite program and numbers went down dramatically (about 40 kids per grade). We all know that every year some kids quit, so you need a 60-80 mite class to hit the funnel in HS.

For EP, however, there has been a switch lately, as there has been a renewed focus on getting the mite numbers up, and now that the city has finally allowed the Hockey Community to partake in pull tabs, I would guess that fees will come down, which can help even more.

Whoever comes into the EP situation for the next couple of years will have some high-end talent and potential for a state run. It will be interesting to see who it is.

FWIW's EP's 2nd line center was out of the lineup for the PL game due to an injury sustained late in the 3rd period of the Jefferson game. He might have made a difference. PL was the better team, EP did not have the depth they normally have.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

BlueLine has some great points. If you want more non-Metro teams to make the tournament, get more non-Metro AA programs.

There are 8 AA programs north of the Saint Cloud area, enough for their own section. There is only one reason that section assignments allow for two northern teams, that would be nostalgia. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug that should only be taken in limited doses under close supervision. There was a hug amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when there was no 218 in the tournament, but that's the risk you run when they get split into two sections. You can have zero, one, or two: or you can have one every year. One section is 12.5% of the tournament entrants, and 12.5% of AA programs are in northern MN. I'm good either way. Section geography was tough in the single class era, and it's tougher with two classes.

What I'd like to know is if there was just as much whining in the 50's & 60's with the same complaints? "Same teams every year, Roseau, I Falls, Thief River, Johnson, South Saint Paul, Southwest (the original Cake Eaters.)"

It's funny, we like new teams, until they have sustained success. Then we don't like. I can recall when Burnsville was the cool new kid, and it didn't take too many years before they got booed. Not as bad as Hill and Edina, but it was noted that they had "joined the club". We like success, but not too much success.

I'm bemused by the desire to see "someone other than the Lakevilles". It wasn't all that long ago that Section 1 was horrible. If you drew section 1, you were getting a bye. It was like they were represented by White Bear every year. And the first few appearances by Lakeville/North weren't impressive. But they've made that a respectable section for ten years now. So be careful what you wish for. The Lakevilles have made for better tournament play for many years now.

Predicting who will be up and who will be down, even in the near future, can be very humbling. There were plenty of voices here who told us that Stillwater was in for a nice run in 4AA, and Hill and WB would be on the wane. The Ponies had a couple of very nice teams, but that was it.

[north_bear]

BlueLine has some great points. If you want more non-Metro teams to make the tournament, get more non-Metro AA programs.

There are 8 AA programs north of the Saint Cloud area, enough for their own section. There is only one reason that section assignments allow for two northern teams, that would be nostalgia. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug that should only be taken in limited doses under close supervision. There was a hug amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when there was no 218 in the tournament, but that's the risk you run when they get split into two sections. You can have zero, one, or two: or you can have one every year. One section is 12.5% of the tournament entrants, and 12.5% of AA programs are in northern MN. I'm good either way. Section geography was tough in the single class era, and it's tougher with two classes.

What I'd like to know is if there was just as much whining in the 50's & 60's with the same complaints? "Same teams every year, Roseau, I Falls, Thief River, Johnson, South Saint Paul, Southwest (the original Cake Eaters.)"

It's funny, we like new teams, until they have sustained success. Then we don't like. I can recall when Burnsville was the cool new kid, and it didn't take too many years before they got booed. Not as bad as Hill and Edina, but it was noted that they had "joined the club". We like success, but not too much success.

I'm bemused by the desire to see "someone other than the Lakevilles". It wasn't all that long ago that Section 1 was horrible. If you drew section 1, you were getting a bye. It was like they were represented by White Bear every year. And the first few appearances by Lakeville/North weren't impressive. But they've made that a respectable section for ten years now. So be careful what you wish for. The Lakevilles have made for better tournament play for many years now.

Predicting who will be up and who will be down, even in the near future, can be very humbling. There were plenty of voices here who told us that Stillwater was in for a nice run in 4AA, and Hill and WB would be on the wane. The Ponies had a couple of very nice teams, but that was it.

You don't think geography has anything to do with northern section assignments? The distance from Duluth area to Moorhead and Roseau is about 250 miles, 4-5 hour trips. Those would be some expensive games! Maybe the gracious folks of Hill Murray can start some neighborhood collections to help out their brothers of the north.

[O-townClown]

Overall I think people have grown tired of the Lake Conference teams with their Mega Youth Organizations dominating the AA field.

Which people are these? Overall, whatever that means, there sure are a lot of folks from other places who have chosen Lake Conference schools because of their HS hockey programs in very recent years. I can rattle off a few dozen names if need be, from just the last four or five seasons. Wayzata, Minnetonka, Eden Prairie, and Edina have been very consistent. They can't go to state every year due to actually having meaningful competition in sections, yet people still seek out hockey opportunities there. Must not be that tired.

[O-townClown]

Feel bad for Roseau.

I always feel bad for the kids from Roseau when they lose. Never the adults, though. As great of a hockey community as it obviously is, when it comes to HS hockey it doesn't seem like they are big supporters. Roseau Rams only. Big contrast from the people I consider HS hockey fans that can talk about all the great players and teams and still are all in for the section games and state tournament even after their favorite team gets offed.

Roseau teams are given more credit in various rankings than deserved and their players are over-represented for individual accolades. Especially from media outlets known to have a northern bias, like "On The Pond" or some guy on Twitter that pretends to be Dave Spehar.

Huge credit for Lee Pagenkopf for his PS2. Invaluable to have an unbiased measuring stick to compare to with the goal of being objective.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

BlueLine has some great points. If you want more non-Metro teams to make the tournament, get more non-Metro AA programs.

There are 8 AA programs north of the Saint Cloud area, enough for their own section. There is only one reason that section assignments allow for two northern teams, that would be nostalgia. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug that should only be taken in limited doses under close supervision. There was a hug amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when there was no 218 in the tournament, but that's the risk you run when they get split into two sections. You can have zero, one, or two: or you can have one every year. One section is 12.5% of the tournament entrants, and 12.5% of AA programs are in northern MN. I'm good either way. Section geography was tough in the single class era, and it's tougher with two classes.

What I'd like to know is if there was just as much whining in the 50's & 60's with the same complaints? "Same teams every year, Roseau, I Falls, Thief River, Johnson, South Saint Paul, Southwest (the original Cake Eaters.)"

It's funny, we like new teams, until they have sustained success. Then we don't like. I can recall when Burnsville was the cool new kid, and it didn't take too many years before they got booed. Not as bad as Hill and Edina, but it was noted that they had "joined the club". We like success, but not too much success.

I'm bemused by the desire to see "someone other than the Lakevilles". It wasn't all that long ago that Section 1 was horrible. If you drew section 1, you were getting a bye. It was like they were represented by White Bear every year. And the first few appearances by Lakeville/North weren't impressive. But they've made that a respectable section for ten years now. So be careful what you wish for. The Lakevilles have made for better tournament play for many years now.

Predicting who will be up and who will be down, even in the near future, can be very humbling. There were plenty of voices here who told us that Stillwater was in for a nice run in 4AA, and Hill and WB would be on the wane. The Ponies had a couple of very nice teams, but that was it.

You don't think geography has anything to do with northern section assignments? The distance from Duluth area to Moorhead and Roseau is about 250 miles, 4-5 hour trips. Those would be some expensive games! Maybe the gracious folks of Hill Murray can start some neighborhood collections to help out their brothers of the north.

Thank you reinforcing my point that geography is the point.

How expensive was that Roseau - Elk River game? That was a whopping 318 miles! St. Michael to Moorhead clocks in at 209 miles. But Elk River to St. Mike comes in at 11.3.

We take a section's worth of north metro teams, divide them into to different sections, and send them north more than 200 miles. And that's supposed to be OK. There is no reason, other than nostalgia, to not have a 763 section, with Sartell thrown in, and a 218 section. Well, nostalgia, and the "Oh the horrors! Only one 218 in the tournament!" If someone is tired of Moorhead, holler at Warroad to step it up to AA; I'd love to see them there.

For what it's worth, when I'm Section Assignment King, I will base section assignments on geography, with an eye toward competitive balance. We always get two competitive teams out of 7 & 8 now, so I'm pretty well OK with the way it is now.

Blaine to GR is 156 miles. Blaine to St. Mike is 27 miles.

Part and parcel of choosing to live in rural or sparsely populated areas is that sometimes you will be driving long distances. But then, your mileage may vary. (Clever pun there.)

[bardown27]

BlueLine has some great points. If you want more non-Metro teams to make the tournament, get more non-Metro AA programs.

There are 8 AA programs north of the Saint Cloud area, enough for their own section. There is only one reason that section assignments allow for two northern teams, that would be nostalgia. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug that should only be taken in limited doses under close supervision. There was a hug amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when there was no 218 in the tournament, but that's the risk you run when they get split into two sections. You can have zero, one, or two: or you can have one every year. One section is 12.5% of the tournament entrants, and 12.5% of AA programs are in northern MN. I'm good either way. Section geography was tough in the single class era, and it's tougher with two classes.

What I'd like to know is if there was just as much whining in the 50's & 60's with the same complaints? "Same teams every year, Roseau, I Falls, Thief River, Johnson, South Saint Paul, Southwest (the original Cake Eaters.)"

It's funny, we like new teams, until they have sustained success. Then we don't like. I can recall when Burnsville was the cool new kid, and it didn't take too many years before they got booed. Not as bad as Hill and Edina, but it was noted that they had "joined the club". We like success, but not too much success.

I'm bemused by the desire to see "someone other than the Lakevilles". It wasn't all that long ago that Section 1 was horrible. If you drew section 1, you were getting a bye. It was like they were represented by White Bear every year. And the first few appearances by Lakeville/North weren't impressive. But they've made that a respectable section for ten years now. So be careful what you wish for. The Lakevilles have made for better tournament play for many years now.

Predicting who will be up and who will be down, even in the near future, can be very humbling. There were plenty of voices here who told us that Stillwater was in for a nice run in 4AA, and Hill and WB would be on the wane. The Ponies had a couple of very nice teams, but that was it.

You don't think geography has anything to do with northern section assignments? The distance from Duluth area to Moorhead and Roseau is about 250 miles, 4-5 hour trips. Those would be some expensive games! Maybe the gracious folks of Hill Murray can start some neighborhood collections to help out their brothers of the north.

Isn’t that kind of like Elk River driving to Roseau for a section semi final game?

[MWS coach]

How expensive was that Roseau - Elk River game? That was a whopping 318 miles!

Bus $3000
Hotel $1600
Food $700

Upsetting Roseau in their own barn, PRICELESS!

For everything else, there's Mastercard!

[BlueLineSpecial]

I personally don't have any major issues with the way sections are currently divided up. If the goal is to create sections based on general geography whenever possible, along with some effort to have a competitive balance per section, then I'm good. Given the rise and fall of teams and the impossibility of perfect geographical alignment, the powers-that-be do pretty well. It'll never be perfect, especially when you've got places like Moorhead and Roseau on the map - teams pretty isolated from other population centers.

What would be really interesting is if MN had two major cities spread further away from each other. Imagine if St. Paul and surrounding suburbs were 250 miles away from MPLS and surrounding suburbs, a la Cincinnati & Cleveland. Sections would look completely different, you might encounter a team at State that is a relative unknown, you'd have an entire city sort of rooting for any team from their area and rooting against any team from the other major area, etc.

[Sparlimb]

I personally don't have any major issues with the way sections are currently divided up. If the goal is to create sections based on general geography whenever possible, along with some effort to have a competitive balance per section, then I'm good. Given the rise and fall of teams and the impossibility of perfect geographical alignment, the powers-that-be do pretty well. It'll never be perfect, especially when you've got places like Moorhead and Roseau on the map - teams pretty isolated from other population centers.

What would be really interesting is if MN had two major cities spread further away from each other. Imagine if St. Paul and surrounding suburbs were 250 miles away from MPLS and surrounding suburbs, a la Cincinnati & Cleveland. Sections would look completely different, you might encounter a team at State that is a relative unknown, you'd have an entire city sort of rooting for any team from their area and rooting against any team from the other major area, etc.

Well that's why HM is so nice. People from communities all around, even Hudson, can cheer for the same team.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

Yep, if you've ever been a part of us, you know we are very much a community. But be warned, every dang one of us is a sinner. Well, except for me.

[mnmouth]

. . . There are 8 AA programs north of the Saint Cloud area, enough for their own section. There is only one reason that section assignments allow for two northern teams, that would be nostalgia. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug that should only be taken in limited doses under close supervision. There was a hug amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when there was no 218 in the tournament, but that's the risk you run when they get split into two sections. You can have zero, one, or two: or you can have one every year. One section is 12.5% of the tournament entrants, and 12.5% of AA programs are in northern MN. I'm good either way. Section geography was tough in the single class era, and it's tougher with two classes.

What I'd like to know is if there was just as much whining in the 50's & 60's with the same complaints? "Same teams every year, Roseau, I Falls, Thief River, Johnson, South Saint Paul, Southwest (the original Cake Eaters.)" . . .

You're going to take a shot at Nostalgia as it relates to Minnesota hockey, particularly the Sections and State tournament representation? Seriously?? The State tournament is all about nostalgia and celebrating the past as well as the Now. Yes, nostalgia is a dangerous drug, but as far as Minnesota high school boys hockey is concerned, nostalgia is its marrow. Without it, much of what we consider special and representative of Minnesota hockey spirit would be considerably lacking. Not only that, but there at least three websites that are devoted to Minnesota boys hockey history (which always conjures up memories that border on, nay, embrace sentimentality and nostalgia): Vintage Hockey, leepagen.com (the former Minnhock site) and, of all places, Pioneer Guy, the Hill Murray athletics website!! Perhaps I am just one of few who do so, but I visit all these sites frequently throughout the hockey season. There is some overlap among these sites, but the amount of historical information one can extract from each of these sites is staggering.

And, unless I'm incorrectly interpreting your post, your reference to geography has more to do with driving distances across great expanses of territory for Section 7 & 8 teams. That certainly is unfortunate as travel costs these days prevent much of what made section tournaments truly special in the past (i.e., no band/cheerleader buses, no fan buses, no student buses traveling to these tournaments to really liven up the atmosphere, as well as school budget challenges do deal with, etc.). [An aside: If it were up to me (and it never will be), Section 7/8 ought to be drawn along a southern boundary of Highway 210/Highway 10, roughly from Duluth through Brainerd and on to Moorhead, and north to the border]

Part of the reason that two teams should always come out of that area is the fact that it's a huge area. The second is that true high school hockey fans, as well as casual fans, across that huge expanse tend to support other teams from the 218 if they have no team to root for, or when their team loses. Can the same be said for Metro teams and their fans (not readers/contributors to this Forum, who tend to be more rabid in their support of high school hockey) when their school loses? I don’t know. Not having a team to cheer for takes some (much?) luster off the State tournament but doesn’t decrease its yearly impact. And part of that is having a certain amount of nostalgia about the event, generally and specifically.

[BlueLineSpecial]

There aren't enough AA northern teams to fill two sections and thus guarantee two 218 representatives each year. You can, however, do exactly what's being done right now - splitting AA 218 teams into two sections, intermixed with some northern metro teams. AS ESPG pointed out, this can give 218 two teams...or none.

[elliott70]

There aren't enough AA northern teams to fill two sections and thus guarantee two 218 representatives each year. You can, however, do exactly what's being done right now - splitting AA 218 teams into two sections, intermixed with some northern metro teams. AS ESPG pointed out, this can give 218 two teams...or none.

What 8 & & need is more teams to step up to the table.
Now in 8 some are reaching that point already - Sartell
Alexandria is closing in on it.

But others are a bit off and may never reach it but do have strong programs.

Ideally, we would have Roseau, Bemidji, Moorhead, Brainerd, St Cloud, Sartell,
and add Alexandria
and East Grand Forks and / or Warroad.

[mnmouth]

There aren't enough AA northern teams to fill two sections and thus guarantee two 218 representatives each year. You can, however, do exactly what's being done right now - splitting AA 218 teams into two sections, intermixed with some northern metro teams. AS ESPG pointed out, this can give 218 two teams...or none.

What 8 & & need is more teams to step up to the table.
Now in 8 some are reaching that point already - Sartell
Alexandria is closing in on it.

But others are a bit off and may never reach it but do have strong programs.

Ideally, we would have Roseau, Bemidji, Moorhead, Brainerd, St Cloud, Sartell,
and add Alexandria
and East Grand Forks and / or Warroad.

Or 7/8 combine into one Section. The Section champion and runner-up advance to State. Or you use a ‘true second’ format to determine the second qualifier. Yeah, I know, it’s radical

[elliott70]

Or section 7 could add Hermantown and maybe Rock Ridge to
Cloquet
DEast
Forest Lake
Grand Rapids
DMarshall
No Edge

or without Rock Ridge
move Bemidji or Brainerd to 7.

[mnmouth]

Or section 7 could add Hermantown and maybe Rock Ridge to
Cloquet
DEast
Forest Lake
Grand Rapids
DMarshall
No Edge

or without Rock Ridge
move Bemidji or Brainerd to 7.

Using the existing format, this is ideally what should happen, but . . .

[TTpuckster]

There aren't enough AA northern teams to fill two sections and thus guarantee two 218 representatives each year. You can, however, do exactly what's being done right now - splitting AA 218 teams into two sections, intermixed with some northern metro teams. AS ESPG pointed out, this can give 218 two teams...or none.

What 8 & & need is more teams to step up to the table.
Now in 8 some are reaching that point already - Sartell
Alexandria is closing in on it.

But others are a bit off and may never reach it but do have strong programs.

Ideally, we would have Roseau, Bemidji, Moorhead, Brainerd, St Cloud, Sartell,
and add Alexandria
and East Grand Forks and / or Warroad.

Agreed!