FOX 9 News Gopher Hockey / Underage Drinking Story

FreeAGENT · Post by **FreeAGENT** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:18 pm

Zamman: I never said what they were doing wasn't a shoddy choice. I simply stated that this is not a morality issue. I don't don't think this is a progessing issue. This exists everywhere and always has. What would have gotten out of hand that wouldn't had they been drinking on campus? The point is, Lucia didn't make this a public announcement. It was FOX. puckhead89: Last time I checked 18, 19, and 20 is legal adult age. I never said there shouldn't be punishments. I never said it wasn't a stupid choice. My point has nothing to do with the players and nothing to do with the legality of the issue. This is all about the amplification of the issue. The fact that they set out an hour to scapegoat these players, convince our society this is an escalating problem, and most importantly embarrass the team and fans. This is no culture shock. This is no Vikings orgy. They weren't causing a problem. In all honesty it's a small issue, and shouldn't be that big of a surprise to anyone. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... eeAGENT</A> at: 11/8/05 6:16 pm

Thehockeyplaya · Post by **Thehockeyplaya** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:18 pm

can anyone tell me who the six players where that they singled out. I also think this is really sad on KSMP's part i mean come on there is drinking in every college and i know for a fact that other athletes are allowed in the bars and many different bars for that matter for different school and for them to single out the U for hockey is sad for the matter i know that 2 of there other sports go out as teams once a wk to once every two weeks to the bars and its freshman to Seniors so there are many more players in both of these sports

slapshotbg · Post by **slapshotbg** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:51 pm

here's the bottom line... although what these players did was wrong... they did nothing different than anyone else would have done in there situation. So go ahead and put these players at fault but anyone on here would have done the same thing... it would be interesting to see how many of the fox 9 reporters have received minors in the past because i garauntee almost all of them have drinken illegally.

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:47 am

That's right....let the minors consume alcohol because "everybody else does it." Let the under age athletes drink in a public place and get gratutious gifts from the bar owner because "every other athlete gets away with it." Let the bar owner continue to serve under age kids, and of course his touted athletes, because "every other bar owner would do it." And of course, let's not forget the best part of all..."they did nothing different than anyone else would have done in there (sic) situation." I beg to differ. These 18, 19 and 20 year old athletes (and YES FreeAgent I acknowledged these kids were voting age adults, but are NOT adults in the eyes of the law regarding alcohol consumption) could have and SHOULD have made the choice to be different than "everybody else." I agree with a previous poster who said these athletes should be, and I believe are in many instances, held to a higher standard. It is a price that simply must be paid for their "star-like" status. As to the University, I stated in an earlier post that it has been reported that not only did the University have a tip about this activity before Fox did, Fox also went to the University before airing this story. This all can be countered by the University, but they have chosen to remain silent beyond their response that "every other university" would give in the same situation. Did anyone see channel 5 tonight where the mother of the Gophers beloved Hobey Baker winner Leopold stated she had gone to the University about this increasing problem several years ago? She stated she is pleased the story came out and her position as a parent is that the drinking problem WAS becoming too big of an issue with the hockey players and nothing was being done about it. Frankly, that would have been a good news story for every poster on this thread to hear because her comments make you pause....a mother of a highly successful Gopher, Division 1 and now professional hockey player telling the public that something is wrong here. Being a Division I athlete with the promise of a professional career doing what you love is not an easy task. Most who are in this category have worked very hard, but it would seem that along the way, they never quite grasp the seriousness of consequences when making poor choices....perhaps it is because we are turning our kids into "its all about me" kind of citizens. Rules are here for a reason. Think about it.

Thornewolf · Post by **Thornewolf** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:55 am

Wow I was going to post a replay but puckhead pretty much summed up everything I had to say. I do agree with some of the other folks that the manner in which it was broadcasted was a bit sensational, but that's FOX News for you. I am just a bit amazed that so many people blame the news station and so few are saying "what about the kids who BROKE the rules." Seems a bit too much like hero worship to me. Don't get me wrong. I bleed Minnesota hockey colors, but rules are rules. Do I think that this happens across the campus at large, yeah I know it does. I went to college, I remember it. I will even admit to having a few adult beverages before that magcial age of 21, but if I knew that I could endanger my academic scholarship over it, I sure as heck would have just waited. So I'm not saying I'm better than any of those boys, but you reap what you sow. I seriously don't believe that any of these players will lose scholarships or their season. Could it happen, sure I suppose it could I don't know all of the NCAA rules, but I doubt it. Maybe this is what the other students at large need to see. I wonder if people would be this burnt if the hockey players in question would have been St. Cloud players drinking at The Red Carpet?

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:35 am

It would be a shame if the players busted on tape aren't punished for their actions. As much as I love the Gophs, they need to release these guys from their scholarships and move on. I know that's tough, but if they don't do it, the wrong message is going to be sent. I can't believe I just said what I did, but I stepped back a little and talked to a lot of folks who aren't as big a fan as I am, and that's what the public-at-large thinks... Whatever happens, it's going to be a black-eye for the program for a little while, and then they'll move on like the basketball team did over the cheating scandel of a few years ago.

iknowbetter · Post by **iknowbetter** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:02 am

Wow parker; are you serious or just a little nuts? Release these guys from their scholarships? Whatever happened to an 18 year old kid simply using bad judgment or better yet making a MISTAKE. Yup Parker lets just kick these kids off the team and ruin everything they have worked for their whole life! That's really a crock of bull on your part parker. It might be a good idea to send them to jail for a year or so and really teach them a lesson My God Parker these are 18, 19, year old kids get a clue!!! All the @#%$ that's going on in our society and you want to make these kids as an example, shame on you, shame on you! Your disgusting,you should never be allowed to have the pleasure of watching any college sports!

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:25 am

What's that old adage?....fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.....that is what the U of M should be saying right now. My son goes to a private university out East and they have made it very clear to their students and parents that if there is under age consumption or drug use, academic scholarships are taken away AND they are not welcomed back to the university. Why should athletics be any different? BUT if we all agree that athletics need to be treated differently, well then we need to hold the athletes to that "higher standard" discussed earlier. Iknowbetter, don't be so harsh on scottparker. He makes some points that in the real world are considered good points.

iknowbetter · Post by **iknowbetter** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:10 am

Come on please, this real life for these young men! They were drinking, ok, lets deal with that, they didn't kill someone or rape someone, they didn't steal or destroy anyone’s property, they had a drink[s] in a bar with their friends and they shouldn't have. Let the punishment fit the misdeed. I don't know what school out east your son goes to you didn't say. It doesn't matter, you simply do not pull a scholarship, and kick a kid out of school for one minor and I do mean MINOR consumption! You go by the NCAA rules and your own college/team rules and apply them. Be fair and consistent and HELP the kids, any kids, not just athletes any kid that gets into trouble. You don't just spit them out! Where would we all be with out a second chance! I have a real hard time with people that are so quick administer the death penalty. Does that make them feel justified in their life? I wonder

slapshotbg · Post by **slapshotbg** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:19 am

I never said that they shouldnt be held accoutable for their actions did I??? i just said that put in their place you or I would have done the same thing. It's just to bad they had to have a good thing taken away from them<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

Thornewolf · Post by **Thornewolf** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:18 pm

Does anyone know what the penalties are for drinking alcohol whether it be a minor or not, in or out of season? I went to the ncaa site but didn't have much time to peruse it too closely. Now while I may not agree with them losing their scholarships or their season I think that what Parker was saying was that they have to enforce the rules on this one. If the rules say they lose their season, etc. then how can you not enforce it? I sure hope that isn't the case though because I do believe that they're just kids and do silly stuff. As for a good time taken away from them... should we allow them to have a "good time" even if it is breaking the law? If so, then throw the drinking age out and let all students drink at the bar, regardless of age and association with no ramfications. Change the NCAA's rules regarding this activity and the state's drinking age while you're at it. They're underage and shouldn't be in a bar let alone drinking in it. Period. Unless they're in Canada or Europe or Mexico...

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:15 pm

"Let the punishment fit the misdeed." I think we all agree on this one, but what we aren't agreeing upon is what that punishment should be. My point is: if there is a rule and if that rule is broken and there are punishments outlined by the Univesity or the NCAA prior to a student athlete accepting his scholarship or his admission into the school, then that is the "punishment that fits the misdeed." If the the university has a guideline for under age drinking as it relates to scholarshiped athletes, then this is simple and the designated punishment must be enforced. I offered up to the readers what a private university out East does with it....I have no idea what the U of M is "supposed" to do with this infraction, but I can't believe it is all that different. Bottom line is if there is an infraction of a rule there is an infraction, no matter how big or small. Designated consequences must ensue. Done deal. This isn't "outcome based" education anymore because in life you don't get a dozen chances to get it right.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:36 pm

A review of the comments so far would indicate that the blame for this should be placed on: 1. Society/ All of us/ The system 2. The media 3. The Bar owner 4. The U 5. The legislature for the drinking age law 6. Just about everybody/thing other than the players. I dont happen to think the story is newsworthy. But I think the general response to it is more disturbing than the story. They are violating rules and breaking the law. Its not OK. The rules and laws arent for everybody else except athletes. It doesnt matter that they didnt also bust the football team. I think its pretty chickenbleep of Fox but the response to it might explain a lot of the problems that we have today with our kids and athletes....well after they leave school.

You Puck · Post by **You Puck** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:48 pm

come on i didn't say that<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:50 pm

OK, I "pushed a button", and I really hate to see bad things happen to kids who make mistakes.. But the point was made that whatever is documented as punishment must be dealt. Didn't one of the Michigan schools release one of their players just this fall for underage drinking, or was it for something else? The point I had hoped to make is that we as a society have made these athletes "above it all" and then they turn into these professional athletes who get away with murder.. So I stand by my earlier statment that if there are rules about this type of behavior, and it calls for "cutting" the player, then it needs to happen quickly so that the team and the program can move on. If there is no such penalty proscribed, then they can't do that. Just follow the rules, and "move on"!! By the way, I know several non-athletes who have "made mistakes" such as this, and some have done jail time, paid big fines, and even a couple died because they didn't think that the rules applied to them either. Step outside of the "I'm a HUGE Gophers Hockey Fan" box and step onto the "this is society as a whole" platform, and take another look at this. Talk to the rest of the world and get their feel for this.. you might be surprised. This whole situation stinks, by the way.. But we have the hand and now if must be played.

Thehockeyplaya · Post by **Thehockeyplaya** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:58 pm

I have a question what does everyone here think the punishment here should be... Parker said gone for good but to me that seems extremely steep look at MSHL they give what a 2game suspension or 2wks somewhere around there i believe so why should a college hockey player be done for good im just curious...just trying to get some more conversation going out of this...

FreeAGENT · Post by **FreeAGENT** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:13 pm

No one said it was okay that the players did it. No one said they shouldn't be punished. No one said that they shouldn't be at blame for this. The issue has already been reprimanded, the players are obviously at fault for doing this. But FOX didn't direct their investigation to U of M students in bars, they targeted at the hockey team. That's what makes me sick. The players made a wrong choice, but in no means do they deserve what has gone on television.

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:12 pm

I don't think anyone is being mislead here other than those who believe that no matter what the punishment is, it will be too harsh. Actually, FreeAgent, many posted that they felt the boys did nothing more than anyone else would have done...to me those posters imply there was no wrong doing by these athletes or any other athlete that would choose to do what the hockey players did. We can just leave the discussion at that because suprisingly this is an issue with the posters that will remain in debate.... To answer the other poster's question about what do we all think the punishment should be, well that is a simple answer for me: whatever U of M, NCAA and Donny Lucia had in place for infractions related to this type of behavior.....that is what the punishment should be. If they find down the road that the punishment is not stringent enough, well then, just like our legislators, they can go back to the drawing board and draft new rules.

LloydBraun · Post by **LloydBraun** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:20 pm

The player you were talking about was Wild's draft pick AJ thelen from michigan state. I think that his situation was alot different then what the gopher players are going through right now. Aj was booted for drinking and party on nights before games and had disiplinary problems.

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:57 pm

Quote: Did anyone see channel 5 tonight where the mother of the Gophers beloved Hobey Baker winner Leopold stated she had gone to the University about this increasing problem several years ago? She stated she is pleased the story came out and her position as a parent is that the drinking problem WAS becoming too big of an issue with the hockey players and nothing was being done about it. Frankly, that would have been a good news story for every poster on this thread to hear because her comments make you pause....a mother of a highly successful Gopher, Division 1 and now professional hockey player telling the public that something is wrong here. Puckhead89 - as I've been going through and reading this thread, I can't say that I disagree with your take on this issue. However, jumping on Leopold's mother's bandwagon here is a mistake. Odds are that she doesn't have a clue what is going on with college hockey players. It is my understanding that she has been estranged from Jordan since his high school days and hasn't had contact with him in years. I won't comment further than to say she's that I don't believe she's a reliable source.

defencewinsgames · Post by **defencewinsgames** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:31 pm

The highway patrol only catches a few to deter the rest!!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

slapshotbg · Post by **slapshotbg** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:05 am

puckhead you are right i said that they did something that anyone else would have done...... but you are wrong that I said that they should not be accountable for their actions (which i also stated in the same argument). So dont put words in my mouth again... in fact why dont you go ahead and tell the whole board that you never drank underage... ok so there it is. It is a shame that you were not put on tv in front of all you family and peers and singled out like these gentleman.

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:19 am

I need to set the record straight just a bit. What I said earlier was meant to bring out the rabid fans who would do anything to protect their precious gophs.. Although I meant it, I hope that they don't lose their scholorships, unless that's the rule. I appears that Don (Lucia) is finally at least talking about it. I predict that they will perfrom and internal investigation and all the players will get a slap on the wrist. What I hope they do is make it very clear that if they're seen in a bar again before they turn 21, they'll be given their walking papers. In response to the Thelan (sp?) item... it's OK to take a kids scholarship away if he drinks the night before a game, but otherwise you can't do that if it's a different night? I would challenge that and say that you better make sure that none of the kids on the films where seen on a Thursday of a Friday night. Also, that's just a tad hypocritical, don't you think? This is a very emotional issue that will quiet down once the school steps up and takes control, then KMSP won't have anything to go after. Then we can sit back and watch this team do what they have done so well in the past, gel into a championship caliper team at the end of the season.

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:01 am

Eddie Shore, thanks for your clarification as to Leopold's mother. I certainly wasn't aware. But I am not jumping on anyone's band wagon. I have my own, albeit very strong, opinions on what happened here and how it should be handled. I find it suprising that Channel 5 didn't check out her 'value' as a resource more closely....seems we should be jumping down their throats, just as we have all been critical of Fox. And, Slapshotbg (or whatever), as far as your recent comments, I believe I have put no words into your mouth...you seem to be able to do that on your own just fine. My point again to you is: if the punishment outlined by U of M, Lucia and/or NCAA is suspension, loss of scholarship or whatever, THAT is what the players must pay...you were implying all of that would be too severe. If that is what appears in the "what happens when..." rule book, then that is what should happen. Anyway Lucia has spoken now and it appears it will be handled internally. I thought he did a good job of addressing the whole situation. Also, this little side game of yours regarding who in the heck hasn't had a drink before they were of legal age is sooooooo off base for this situation. And if you must know, Nope, I didn't drink before the legal age in my day. Why? Because I had too much to lose. The consequences of breaking those rules were made very, very clear to me. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... khead89</A> at: 11/10/05 9:03 am

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:32 am

Puckhead, I'm right with you on the case that you present in this thread. You'll get no argument from me. I just wanted to make you aware that the channel 5 report wasn't well thought out. Some want to compare Thelen's case to the Gopher case as well. In fact, one of the TV stations made this link. Some of the same issues, but very different cases. A.J. had issues other than a few drinks that led to his leaving the Spartan program. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

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FOX 9 News Gopher Hockey / Underage Drinking Story

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