Minnesota High School Hockey vs. Other States

[DirtyDeuces]

Hey, I was just wondering what you all think of Minnesota hockey in comparison to the rest of the country. Obviously it is the best in the nation, but how so? What makes Minnesota hockey so superior to other states, and what others come close in competition with Minnesota? Do any other states rival the sheer skill and intensity that Minnesota hockey has? What are your thoughts.... <p></p><i></i>

[FreeAGENT]

Minnesota High School Hockey is so superior because we're the only state that provides consistent competition (HS teams). There's no locality within boarding schools and midget teams. Which makes it hard for rivalries and team spirit to generate. <br><br>As for saying Minnesota puts out the best hockey players, that's a whole new ball game.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[dman007]

Lets not factor out that minnesota is in a region of the world where we experience below freezin temps to allow more kids to get outdoors and skate and work on there abilities and skills against other people. I say wisconsin is the only of the state that would rival minnesota. <p></p><i></i>

[gunslinger]

Why is Texas HS football in the country....? It just is... Its ..... STATEWIDE PASSION.... <br><br><br>-The Slinger <p></p><i></i>

[KodiakChew]

One thing that makes Minnesota High School hockey better than other states is that kids actually play high school hockey in Minnesota. It wouldn't always be better than schools in Mass and Mich if kids didn't play prep. I believe most of the prep teams out in Mass would be very competitive top ten teams in Minnesota high school hockey, probably even better. In Michigan, kids play midgets or leave for juniors a lot more frequently. And most of the top players out of Michigan go to play Major Juniors if they don't go to the University of Michigan or Michigan State. <br>I guess what I'm trying to say is YES, Minnesota high school hockey is the best high school hockey in the country, but because more volume of quality players actually play it compared to other highly touted hockey areas. I would like to say that Minnesota kids are just better, but other areas are pretty darn good too!<br>Just my thoughts. <p></p><i></i>

[HockeyMan05]

This is obvious, look at the past 2 NHL Drafts:<br><br>2004 Draft:<br>Wheeler - 5th<br><br>Enough Said...<br><br>2005 <br>Minnesota Players (1st Round):<br>*Lee - 9th<br>*Oshie - 24th<br>Finley - 27th<br>*Niskanen - 28th<br><br>* Straight from HS<br><br>If you want to add Minnesota Prep Schools (Shattuck) to fairly compare to other states Prep Schools...<br><br>Crosby - 1st<br>Johnson - 3rd<br><br><br>If that alone can't prove it...<br><br>Take a Look into History:<br>1980 - The first U.S. high school prospect to be selected in the NHL Entry Draft was center Jay North of Bloomington-Jefferson HS. North was taken by the Buffalo Sabres, 62nd overall. <p></p><i></i>

[iblade06]

based on pure home grown competition, and no real recruting Minnesota puts out time and time again, as a former resident of the Minnesota, i now live in Indiana/ llinois Hockey down here is different. They do get all-stars occasionally, but they go to private schools, such as ann-arbor. In Indiana, they have Up to AAAA (4) because of the varied competiton. Talent-wise, I give the awards the minnesota in every aspect. But don't get me wrong, down here they love hockey just as much as the rest of us 'up there' in the state of hockey. <p></p><i></i>

[mnhockey39]

Minnesota HS hockey has the best overall HS eligible production of players in the country from one State. However, it could even get better! Many Canadian and other major midget teams play 60 - 70 games and that is what the next level is looking for in terms of consistent play night in and night out and schedule endurance. Why, because this is what a player will see if he makes it beyond HS. Yes, I know that EL1 and EL2 have been marketed to add games with the above thought process in mind. However, if you watched some of the EL1 last week you would witness selfish play as I suspect it was based upon winding down the season and they wanted to improve their stats. Furthermore, if you caught any of the Midget/AL2 games during the NAHL tournament last weekend, you witnessed what I am speaking about.<br><br>Playing on one team, for the entire season, playing 60 - 70 games promotes team play all year long. Furthermore, if you notice some of the Head Coach’s of these clubs you will find seasoned and their player/coaching experience runs deep and the coach's are compensated well. The primary mindset of these clubs are to develope hockey players and promote these players to the next level. The big question in my mind is can MN HS League put away the egos and will they ever allow this to happen. It is no fluke that players playing this type of schedule in Canada and else where in the USA are producing product for the next level in greater numbers.<br><br>What catalyst would have to occur in order for the MN HS League to allow this to happen? Is there any real data out there available statically identifying a longer schedule impact on HS age players academically?<br><br>Regards,<br>mnhockey39<br> <p></p><i></i>

[oldschool]

Screw the academics, kids in high school don't even know for sure (far and wide) what sport they like the best, don't make them only chose one purely so that MN can have the top top hockey in the US, we already have it anyway. By high school most kids really know if they are going anywhere or not anyway..............<br><br>Never experienced Hs hockey in mass, but I assume it is right up ther in the NE states, Wisconsin could probably compete with North Dakota but not even close to MN, do you know that Superior and Hudson are two of their top teams?????(both are regularly beaten by middle of the road MN teams. Michigan maybe, the problem I have with that is: why do all of their "top players" go to canada or prep school???? probably because there isn't enough talent in their own state to supply a good quality season..................................................................<br><br>People should also think about how many teams from other regions in the United States come to MN youth hockey tournements each year, (there is a reason).......... <p></p><i></i>

[JLS 81]

mnhockey39<br>You could easily get it done by allowing MAHA and the local associations to manage the Varsity level players just like they do for Mite through Junior Gold already. The move would be seemless and the payoff great for kids who at Bantams are playing 50 plus game anyway. The only fight the MSHSL would put up in stopping such a move would be over the millions they profit on the boys state high school tournament. That my friend would be the only concern with regards to MSHSL wishing to retain the current 25 game season format. <p></p><i></i>

[PAMESH]

oldschool you show your age and Minnesota bias when you say that Michigan probably doesn't have as much talent to fill the HS teams. The reason they leave is because Michigan does Club Hockey. If you have any talent you go tryout for a club. They consider their HS hockey to be our Jr gold. So if you are going to make a comparison with Minnesota Hockey to other states it should be against their Club teams how does Warroad compare to Honeybaked, or Team Illinois. But that is not comparing apples to apples either. <br><br>MN has proven for the last 2 years, by winning the Elite League, that it can put together teams that can beat the best in the country. But once those players are dispursed to their high school teams they probably would lose more often against the club teams. There is no doubt that the national Midget tournament is more competative then the MSHSL tournament and if Minnesota took the winner of the Elite Leauge and put it in the National tournament I would bet they would win it alot. But I doubt the State champions would ever win it.<br><br>By the way Sydney Crosby is not a product of Shattuck he played one season and was gone. Now if you said Zach Parise and Casey Borer then you would be speaking the truth. <p></p><i></i>

[mnhockey39]

Oldschool:<br><br>I disagree with your statement of screw the academics and reasoning behind the statement!! Furthermore, you imply that playing 70 games a year makes an athlete available for only one sport and that is simply not an accurate statement. Many seasons outside on MN HS hockey, consist of 60-70 games being played from September through March. Typically from what I have seen is hockey players, if they play more than one sport, also play either baseball and or socce, which one can participate in during the non-hockey time period. I do agree with you in that I highly recommend that athletes play more than one sport if they wish to!<br><br>Regards,<br>mnhockey39<br> <p></p><i></i>

[hockEfan]

Despite how we pride ourselves as the best High School hockey in the country, sometimes this board and its' writers underestimate how REALLY good our high school teams are.<br><br>Elite League Teams - If these teams (all of them) played a full season together, and by that I mean practice 5 days/week, and competed in the Midget leagues of Michigan, Illinois, Mass. etc, I believe they would be very successful, probably dominate.<br><br>High School - I also believe that our top High School teams would be very successful in the Midget leagues. Nobody will be able to convince me that the Centennials, Moorheads, AHA's, Warroads over the past few years, and many other teams in Minnesota would not be successful.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[mnhockey39]

JLS 81:<br><br>You bring forward a very interesting model for administering HS hockey! However, a primary concern with this to me is insuring that you take the parental politics out of this equation ensuring that EVERYONE has the same opportunities and participant decisions are based upon primarily skill set that year. Has there been any prior discussion about this topic in the past? If so what were the pro's and con's regarding this topic? <br><br>I completely agree with your statement as to why MSHSL would have an issue with losing control of MN HS hockey as it relates to dollars and cents! I have a similar opinion, as well.<br><br>I was involved with a particular School Board located in MN, about a 2 million dollar spend differential on a very much needed capital asset. I thought during the discussions that the topic would evolve around what is best for the kids? How wrong I was, as the primary topic of discussions evolved around the 2 million dollar spend differential and if this spread could not cut to a $700,000 differential, we would not be able to get the majority vote of the school board to support a win for the major majority of the kids and a much smaller group of kids would benefit. I was naive in my original thinking and learned a lot that year about politics!<br><br>With that said, if it evolves primarily around the almighty dollar, what is the reasoning behind the not to exceed games for HS hockey? If a primary interest is, dollars earned from HS games, then why not allow more games and generate more income to feed that animal?<br><br>Regards,<br>mnhockey39 <br> <p></p><i></i>

[mnhockey39]

PAMESH:<br><br>Great points! Also note, major midget and other similar model teams play in many different locations in the US and Canada, such as D1, D3, NAHL, and USHL home towns with the intent to get the players additional exposure. This is certainly a positive for those with the right skill set wanting to play at the next level.<br><br>Regards,<br>mnhockey39 <p></p><i></i>

[RLStars]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Many seasons outside on MN HS hockey, consist of 60-70 games being played from September through March.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That IS his point. In order to get 60-70 games, you need to start in September.<br><br>Hock39, where are you from? It has to be a large school that doesn't NEED its hockey players to play for thier football, cross county, swimming (Fall sports) teams. The reason HS hockey starts in Nov. is because the Fall sports are over then. Over half of our HS team plays football.<br><br>Youth hockey associations start in late September to early October and most do not interfer to much with youth sports. We need to be aware of the times and dates of the youth fall sports so we don't get to much heat from parents and teachers. I would assume that holds true in a lot of communities, especially out state MN.<br><br>My sons class has just over 100 kids. If half are boys and only half of those play football, you only have 25 boys to field a team. He had about 18 total. If HS hockey started in September, we would barely have enough players for a football team. Five of the 18 play hockey and would chose hockey first<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Gray Mullet]

Look at the existing schedules and stretch the calendar out a bit into early April state tournament time. Boys, you could easily get 50 games (60 if you like) in between November to first part of April. Baseball and track are just starting so running up a week or 2 would not conflict all that much on the overlap as teams would be dwindling down to a final 16 teams set for state. In the fall we see a bit of an overlap already. I would suggest an occasional bye week in there as well to rest up those bumps and bruises. Throw in a smattering of nice hosted tournaments around the state just to liven things up a bit around Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Years. <p></p><i></i>

[mnhockey39]

RL Stars:<br><br>I <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">read</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> oldschools post and <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">concluded he was implying that you could only play hockey, playing 60 -70 games!</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> My assumption leads me to further state in my prior post, many play baseball and soccer in the non-hockey time period. Furthermore, I know of many hockey players that are playing football and hockey today and yes it is a full plate! Today, I observe many student athletes that participate in overlapping sports, they work through the overlap (working through the overlap is dependent on the coach's attitude), and flourish in HS. Unfortunately, athletics in 2000 are different then when 3 and or 4 sport athletes lettering were common. Unless your are a god gifted athlete (I call them phenons, and they are a rarity), you must focus on one and or two sports to increase your chances of getting to the next level, if this is what you as a player desire. I do not agree with this, however this is sports evolution and I was not involved in the creation of the rules. BTW, I do not have children participating in athletics today, therefore I cannot comment on your assumption of, I must be from a large school area, however I can see the dilemma your are describing with smaller schools.<br><br>My interests today are focused upon assisting our youth through any means legally possible to realize that if you want something in life today, tomorrow, next year, and or several years out, it takes a positive mental frame of mind, commitment, sacrifice, and a good work ethic to increase your odds of accomplishing your goals! Furthermore, making good well thought through decisions along the way and LEADERSHIP skills are an added bonus in quicker goal attainment. My point is if you wish to increase your odds of playing in juniors, D1, and or D3, follow the above advice.<br><br>Regards,<br>mnhockey39<br> <p></p><i></i>

[ronnyevhs]

Other than private schools, no other states public high school hockey teams could even compete with Minnesotas elite, the only real challenge would come from Michigan, but even than i heard that they dont compare...Minnesota is the TRUE place to be for High School Hockey, and our teams can prove it, as well as our outcomes in attendance at the state tournament... <p></p><i></i>

[PoliticsHockey]

If a high school team were to rotate three lines throughout a game given equal time per shift(for arguments sake), then the players would get 17 minutes of icetime per game. In minnesota where our players are limited to 25 games in the season, it creates more practice time instead. At practice, each player is on the ice the entire hour and a half standard practice. I hope you see where I am going with this.... More games translates to less icetime for each player. More practices=More ice time, with pucks on stick makes for better hockey players in MN! Less games, more practice is a good thing!!!!! <p></p><i></i>

[Johnnie15]

Holy Angels went out to Boston and Rhode Island this past season and beat up on a couple of perennial power houses out there, both of which were private I do believe. So I guess our best is better than their best. <p></p><i></i>

[eaglehockey15]

I remember last year in the state tournament Phil Housley said something about Cade Fairchilds hands and that they weren't made from just regular practices, that they were made from playing shinny hockey on outdoor rinks. how many states in north america have as many rinks as us or has as many places to skate nearly year round like we do. very few and that is why we have the best players. <p></p><i></i>

[PAMESH]

It is funny how everyone is preaching to the choir. From what I read nobody is arguing wheather MN has the best HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY because we do. But the best hockey in other states is not at their High School it is in their clubs. <br><br>Now is MN High School hockey more competative then Club hockey accross the country? I think most would agree the answer is no. With that said what system does a better job of player development? Well currently in the draft a lot of Minnesota players have been going very high and we have a huge percentage of players playing D1 hockey. Now I could be wrong on this but these numbers seem to have increased in the last 20 - 30 years (I am dating myself). So this would lead me to believe that High School hockey is doing a great job. But 20 years ago how many kids played summer hockey? Every guy my age (40) says the only thing they did in the summer is go to a 2 week camp. The way they got good was by playing on the lakes and at the park all day every day. ( I am not saying this is bad just that kids today have that same opportunity on top of the summer hockey) I have seen kids today who have done 3 camps in a summer and played on a summer team. <br><br>The oldtime MN hockey guys will tell you High school hockey is the reason for MN's success. High school hockey is so high profile here they want it get all the credit Then everyone continues to attend the High school hockey tournament. The Irony is that MN High School hockey is probably contributing less to the development of players today then anything. Look at all the great players that never finish their high school careers in high school because they know the only way to the next level is through the Juniors. This means that the high school talent is diluted which is probably why an 8th grader can be considered one of the best players in the state. <br><br>Where do you think he will finish his high school career. I am guessing not at St Thomas.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Renegade Ram]

"This means that the high school talent is diluted which is probably why an 8th grader can be considered one of the best players in the state." I didn't realize Schroeder was considered one of the best in the state last year, he made the all tourney team because St. Thomas had to be represented and he was the media darling because of his age. If he weren't at St. Thomas I bet he would have had a hard time making most other top ranked Varsitys A or AA in the State. Dude Marvin SHOULD have made that team at forward LIGHT YEARS before him. But they already had Oshie, Olimb, Theile and who else from Warroad. Couldn't make the whole team Warriors. Minnesota HS maybe the premier HS league in the nation that is a given. But with it's limited game schedule it doesn't develop players like it could. So kids supplement with summer and fall camps or leagues. I have seen the effects of players playing both hockey and football in the fall. Something has to give in that situation its either the kid and his health, grades or other commitments..band, choir whatever. That is why HS is called your HS Experience because of the diversity especially in the small schools. Or you see the football or CC program suffer because the star QB/ hockey player thinks he needs that extra fall league to reach the next level and abandons his buddies for his own priorities. When he doesn't reach his dream does he look back in 10 years and say boy did I screw that up.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[oldschool]

In bantams I played 60 games,................you know what, it sucked, why???? because in the fall I had to choose between going to hockey practice, (when the season started 3 weeks away) and going to football practice (weekly big game) ...not that I played varsity at the time, but going to practice as a freshman and showing good interest means the coaches knew who you were and most of all didn't think you didn't care.....anyway.... eventually something has to give. As I said earlier, by the time a group of kids gets to high school, everyone in the locker room knows which 2-3 teamates will be on another team in a couple years, and wich ones were pushed by their parents, or are going on with their lives because they just aren't going to play on another team. I was implying that by playing 50-60 games in high school would make a kid into a one sport athlete, (isn't that why kids that go to shattuck only play hockey???) and I stand by it.....also, I was only saying that you don't even need to go as far as playing the academics card in this argument, because that fact is that it would NEVER work. <br>As for club hockey, that's cool that Michigan has awesome club hockey, but how many kids from blue collar families or farming families or kids with parents who have two jobs end up playing club hockey??? ask the same question about MN high school hockey and I would not be insinuating the same thing.......( go to the Iron Range or NW MN and look around a little, you'll get the point.) A lot of awesome hockey talent is from families who are not well to do, and as I know youth hockey costs money, these same kids would need to have jobs of their own in order to play on a club team in HS....get it yet???? there for as I said, MN has the best far and wide regardless if your talking hs or club hockey ... .... ...<br> <p></p><i></i>