Prospects/Futures

[InigoMontoya]

yup,$ 775.

I don't see anyone else stepping up to buy ice. For 16 teams playing 5 games each over 3 weekends. Two referees each game, scorekeepers, penalty box personnel.

She also takes the time to set your player in the level of her ability so she can compete at the appropriate level of play.

Or setting up a program that generates such an interest by D1 and D3 coaches that they not only fly in and get hotels but they get to coach the players during games, interact with your daughters and then allows them to scout them when they aren't coaching. Winny used to also buy pizza between the Saturday break between the morning and afternoon games.

Oh yeah then has the coaches run a clinic for parents and players about how recruiting really works and the do's and don'ts of it all, on the first Saturday. Then she makes herself available to coaches that have any questions about your players.

What's that worth to you daughter? Can you make this happen? Oh and if your daughter signs up for summer skating she gives a huge discount on her skating program. Normally over $600+ but only another $125+(guessing, its been a couple of years) for both programs. Her staff is all D1 female players and ex-players.

Sorry for rambling on.

My bad, I didn't realize there was pizza.

[Knight7]

I knew the pizza would get you.

But seriously, no one holds a gun to your head. It's a yes or a no. Seems a lot of parents understand that there is a lot of time commitment to run a program of this size, from her and multiple others that she pays.

Is it a lot, depends on where your daughter is, I suppose. D1 player? Bubble player? D3 player? Maybe a kid that likes to compete? It's getting your daughter out in front of coaches that might see a player they weren't positive on in a different light.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches. They are there to weed out the parents, you know, the ones that run around the arena boasting about their daughters stats, showing people on their phone their daughters save % (which typically is not even close to reality) or bragging about how many goals their child got at 12U. You all know the ones.

[nu2hockey]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches. They are there to weed out the parents, you know, the ones that run around the arena boasting about their daughters stats, showing people on their phone their daughters save % (which typically is not even close to reality) or bragging about how many goals their child got at 12U. You all know the ones.

Some truth there, except for the non-observation .

[jg2112]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches. They are there to weed out the parents, you know, the ones that run around the arena boasting about their daughters stats, showing people on their phone their daughters save % (which typically is not even close to reality) or bragging about how many goals their child got at 12U. You all know the ones.

How depressing. I know exactly who you are talking about.

I think back to my youth. The only time my parents watched me practice or play exhibition games was to pull me off the court because my grades stunk at the midterm.

If/when my daughter ever ends up at a camp like this (she's still a couple of years away from asking to take part), I don't think I'll be on site except for the recruiting meeting. I don't see any point in it.

[zambonidriver]

It is totally voluntary you can choose to opt out and not make a part of your OS package. I will say this Winny is about getting as many kids the opportunity to play college hockey as she can if an individuals family chooses not to do it that is up to them.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches. They are there to weed out the parents, you know, the ones that run around the arena boasting about their daughters stats, showing people on their phone their daughters save % (which typically is not even close to reality) or bragging about how many goals their child got at 12U. You all know the ones.

How depressing. I know exactly who you are talking about.

Really, it was that obvious? Well my apologies to ZD. I thought I was being very subtle and using more of a passive aggressive approach. I will have to go back and study more of IGM posts, so as to get better at it.

[Hansonbrother]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.... How does a college coach out east or just out of state, get to see 100 top kids in the state of MN in a three or four day trip over the holidays during the winter season? They don't.

If I'm a college coach looking to invest thousands of dollars on a kid, do you think I might want to see how the kid(s) I'm looking at will compete against the best of the best? Or do you think they will get a read when the only game they get to see a kid is when they are playing against a team that they beat by 10 goals and only has a half a line of true competition? This would be a complete waste of time for them.

I agree the cream will rise to the top...with that, if 40 kids from MN go division one, and everyone recognizes the top 15 players right away, how do you best determine the diamond in the roughs? (the other 25)

Every college coach that I spoke with thought that this venue (Prospects/Futures) is the best scenario for them to find kids from the state of MN.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.... How does a college coach out east or just out of state, get to see 100 top kids in the state of MN in a three or four day trip over the holidays during the winter season? They don't.

If I'm a college coach looking to invest thousands of dollars on a kid, do you think I might want to see how the kid(s) I'm looking at will compete against the best of the best? Or do you think they will get a read when the only game they get to see a kid is when they are playing against a team that they beat by 10 goals and only has a half a line of true competition? This would be a complete waste of time for them.

I agree the cream will rise to the top...with that, if 40 kids from MN go division one, and everyone recognizes the top 15 players right away, how do you best determine the diamond in the roughs? (the other 25)

Every college coach that I spoke with thought that this venue (Prospects/Futures) is the best scenario for them to find kids from the state of MN.

Hansonbro, I was being sarcastic and it went right over the head of the intended target. MMMBOP!

[zambonidriver]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches. They are there to weed out the parents, you know, the ones that run around the arena boasting about their daughters stats, showing people on their phone their daughters save % (which typically is not even close to reality) or bragging about how many goals their child got at 12U. You all know the ones.

How depressing. I know exactly who you are talking about.

Really, it was that obvious? Well my apologies to ZD. I thought I was being very subtle and using more of a passive aggressive approach. I will have to go back and study more of IGM posts, so as to get better at it.

[zambonidriver]

I think people are missing the point. The college coaches are not there to observe the players. They already know most everything they need to know about the players and will find out the rest through their coaches.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.... How does a college coach out east or just out of state, get to see 100 top kids in the state of MN in a three or four day trip over the holidays during the winter season? They don't.

If I'm a college coach looking to invest thousands of dollars on a kid, do you think I might want to see how the kid(s) I'm looking at will compete against the best of the best? Or do you think they will get a read when the only game they get to see a kid is when they are playing against a team that they beat by 10 goals and only has a half a line of true competition? This would be a complete waste of time for them.

I agree the cream will rise to the top...with that, if 40 kids from MN go division one, and everyone recognizes the top 15 players right away, how do you best determine the diamond in the roughs? (the other 25)

Every college coach that I spoke with thought that this venue (Prospects/Futures) is the best scenario for them to find kids from the state of MN.

Hansonbro, I was being sarcastic and it went right over the head of the intended target. MMMBOP!

NW Career save % against machine 02 963 1.2 gaa 5-3 record including 1 game with blades and blow out at clash this spring going back to 10's

[Knight7]

Actually it was the coaches that asked Winny to put something like this together several years ago. The coaches felt too many Minny kids were left out of the NPDC camps as they were more concerned taking players from Texas, Florida, etc. to show a national flavor in St. Cloud. In the meantime many Minny kids were left off the camp lists and the coaches wanted to see those kids competing against the best in this area.

In those days only 12-15 Minny kids would advanced to NPDC, yet 30 would go D1 and more D3. Now the numbers are more in line with the actual ability of the kids here.

[blondegirlsdad]

I feel terrible.

My kid is playing college hockey and I didn't get to spend the $775.

But hey, Winny still gets my money because the kid skates in OS' college skate.

[Mavs]

I feel terrible.

My kid is playing college hockey and I didn't get to spend the $775.

But hey, Winny still gets my money because the kid skates in OS' college skate.

sounds like a walk-on

[InigoMontoya]

I feel terrible.

My kid is playing college hockey and I didn't get to spend the $775.

But hey, Winny still gets my money because the kid skates in OS' college skate.

So there is a kid that plays D1 that didn't attend the Prospects Camp. Something for the "if you're good enough, they'll find you" side of the aisle. It'd be nice to hear that she still had lacrosse during the first two weekends of the Camp, to give the multi-sport athlete folks something to chew on.

[Mavs]

I feel terrible.

My kid is playing college hockey and I didn't get to spend the $775.

But hey, Winny still gets my money because the kid skates in OS' college skate.

So there is a kid that plays D1 that didn't attend the Prospects Camp. Something for the "if you're good enough, they'll find you" side of the aisle. It'd be nice to hear that she still had lacrosse during the first two weekends of the Camp, to give the multi-sport athlete folks something to chew on.

There are obviously many good players that don't go to this and still get on the radar of college coaches. Great point about multi-sport athletes too

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

I feel terrible.

My kid is playing college hockey and I didn't get to spend the $775.

But hey, Winny still gets my money because the kid skates in OS' college skate.

So there is a kid that plays D1 that didn't attend the Prospects Camp. Something for the "if you're good enough, they'll find you" side of the aisle. It'd be nice to hear that she still had lacrosse during the first two weekends of the Camp, to give the multi-sport athlete folks something to chew on.

Obviously there are a number of players that attend D1 and D3 schools and didn't attend any OS camps. IMO, OS is more about providing opportunity and promoting girls hockey, something that has been lacking in the past. If that is not a your (meaning anyone's) thing, not a big deal.

It is odd to me, that people that don't support or are unable to attend certain camps/clinics or programs, are quick to criticize/scrutinize and/or question the ones that do.

I don't know the exact #, but I would think a fair number of these young ladies that attend OS are multi sport athletes and make it work. I believe there is strong support from the OS people, for these young ladies to participate in other sports and be multi sport athletes.

[InigoMontoya]

It is odd to me, that people that don't support or are unable to attend certain camps/clinics or programs, are quick to criticize/scrutinize and/or question the ones that do.

I don't think anyone has criticized, and I think the only scrutinizing has been regarding the cost, and I'm positive that neither of those were posted until the Winny haters post.

Personally, I think it's great, as do I think HP is great, as do I think the Machine/OS/... team is great - I don't agree with the inference that if a kid isn't participating, the kid isn't one of "the best Minnesota High School player’s".

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

It is odd to me, that people that don't support or are unable to attend certain camps/clinics or programs, are quick to criticize/scrutinize and/or question the ones that do.

I don't think anyone has criticized, and I think the only scrutinizing has been regarding the cost, and I'm positive that neither of those were posted until the Winny haters post.

I don't agree with the inference that if a kid isn't participating, the kid isn't one of "the best Minnesota High School player’s".

I was basically just covering all comments in general, about any program and not just OS. The scrutinizing of cost for OS and whether to attend or not, would basically come down to a personal decision/opinion, based on whether or not a person feels they will receive a fair return on their investment. Correct? I would think that "feeling of a fair return" will be different for each family. So if a family chooses to attend, what issue does the cost present to families that don't?

I am guessing your comment about the "inference that if a kid isn't participating, the kid isn't one of the best Minnesota HS players" is in reference to or directed at a previous post? As that is not something I have expressed.

[greybeard58]

Whether this is the best way to get ahead is in the eye of the beholder. Lets remember that all are in the business to make a profit. The advantage if an organization is a 501(c)3 you can deduct a certain amount on your taxes. A large number claim they are tax exempt and some are not do your checking.

[InigoMontoya]

The scrutinizing of cost for OS and whether to attend or not, would basically come down to a personal decision/opinion, based on whether or not a person feels they will receive a fair return on their investment. Correct?

Agree, the question I had asked, and I think remains largely still on the table, was, what benefit do the already committed receive from participating in the camp at roughly $50/game. I understand and have no issue with the premise that there are many individuals peddling their skill sets and there are many shopping for such; Winny has created a successful market place to bring sellers and buyers together.

I am guessing your comment about the "inference that if a kid isn't participating, the kid isn't one of the best Minnesota HS players" is in reference to or directed at a previous post?

"the best Minnesota HS player's" is from the website, not from a post.

[massalsa]

The scrutinizing of cost for OS and whether to attend or not, would basically come down to a personal decision/opinion, based on whether or not a person feels they will receive a fair return on their investment. Correct?

Agree, the question I had asked, and I think remains largely still on the table, was, what benefit do the already committed receive from participating in the camp at roughly $50/game. I understand and have no issue with the premise that there are many individuals peddling their skill sets and there are many shopping for such; Winny has created a successful market place to bring sellers and buyers together.

As was stated at some point in the thread many that are doing Prospects/Futures are also doing summer training at Fogarty/Bloomington/SPADrake. These weekends AND the training were something like (general guess) $1k or so. This brings these game costs for many (committed or not) to $20ish. If you look at the rosters of some of these teams they might be favorites against almost any U18 team in the world but Canada and the USA. I did not count but am guessing that there are almost 20 girls playing that are Select 66 invites and the majority of the rest are USA U18 National camp invites. Almost all of the "committed" girls already are doing the summer training. I believe that many are not able to do the prior mentioned "OS College Skate" which most likely would include those that have graduated.

Also stated was that this is a business. If it were mine I would most likely offer a discount for many that are already committed to bring the quality of play up and to let coaches/recruiters see these players (many of them younger and possibly off the radar) play against players that many coaches have already deemed D1 worthy by offering them something to play for them.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

The scrutinizing of cost for OS and whether to attend or not, would basically come down to a personal decision/opinion, based on whether or not a person feels they will receive a fair return on their investment. Correct?

Agree, the question I had asked, and I think remains largely still on the table, was, what benefit do the already committed receive from participating in the camp at roughly $50/game.

I suppose the individuals who are committed would have to be the ones to answer that question. I am guessing we would probably receive 33 similar answers, as that is how many committed players are attending. There are a # of others that have yet to commit, but certainly will at some point, participating as well.

I would say that maybe the level of play is enticing and it is an opportunity to experience a level close to what they will be playing in the fall, or for some, the following year, is something of a draw. The cost/benefit? Well that is their business and up to them to decide.

It would be a safe bet that college coaches don't mind at all, that these players are participating.

[massalsa]

This weekend we have 22 coaches from 17 DI University's/Colleges attending (see list below). All coaches will be rotating benches/teams throughout the weekend.

Bemidji State
RPI
Boston University
St. Cloud State
Brown
UConn
Cornell University
Union
Minnesota State University
Univ of MN
Penn State
University of North Dakota
Princeton
Wisconsin
Providence College
Yale
RIT

Roster & Schedule Link:

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... andout.pdf

[blondegirlsdad]

I feel terrible.

My kid is playing college hockey and I didn't get to spend the $775.

But hey, Winny still gets my money because the kid skates in OS' college skate.

So there is a kid that plays D1 that didn't attend the Prospects Camp. Something for the "if you're good enough, they'll find you" side of the aisle. It'd be nice to hear that she still had lacrosse during the first two weekends of the Camp, to give the multi-sport athlete folks something to chew on.

Oh, I didn't say she was a D1 player. She plays D3....

And we did do some OS training a couple summers, but the kid liked other summer hockey options more. I would NEVER begin to criticize OS, Winny or any of the people there, like I said, they're offering up a valuable opportunity for college kids like mine to skate in the summer, it's great.

My larger point is for people to not think that they HAVE to do anything. You're not required to, and if your daughter still wants to play after high school, she can. I would say the one thing you SHOULD try to do is have her keep her grades up (remarkable what Summa Cum Laude and a mid 30's ACT score will do when it comes to D3 colleges being interested and providing financial assistance.)

But this thread isn't about that, it's about the Prospects, congrats to all the girls playing and moving on post HS.