Juniors Level Of Play

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:45 pm

First off, what are all the junior leagues in the US. Secondly, what is the order in quality of play. I'm guessing USHL is at the top, but where does like the NAHL compare to some of those out east? Finally, how do these compare to what Canada has to offer? Thanks! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:03 pm

Nothing? Anything? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

sjubum · Post by **sjubum** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:32 pm

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ic ...

Reggie Dunlap · Post by **Reggie Dunlap** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:01 pm

OK, I’ll start, I haven’t posted in a while … Let’s just start with the US leagues for now. If you go to usahockey.com, click on Juniors, then click on Directory, there is a big .pdf file that lists all of the USA Hockey sanctioned leagues and teams for last year. First, I want to start by saying that by ranking the leagues, this doesn’t mean that all of the teams & players within the leagues are ranked in this order. For example, in my opinion the Texas Tornadoes of the NAHL would have had no problem playing in the USHL the past two years. Second, the USHL has 11 teams with 23 player rosters. This doesn’t imply because I think the USHL is the best league, that those are all of the best 253 players then the next league starts with 254 and so on. There is a lot of talent overlap across the county. Similarly, all Jr. A players are not better than Jr. B players, and all D-I players are not better than D-III players, etc. I’ll post about that some other time. These are my opinions based on the number of games I’ve seen in the past 4 years or so plus feedback that I’ve gotten from players who have played in the various leagues. I also have friends that have coached or scouted in different junior leagues who have helped provide feedback. Junior A – Tier I The top league in the US is the USHL, they have developed the best overall plan for attracting, developing, and marketing their players. Most players move on to D-I or good D-III leagues. The USHL covers all player expenses, including billet fees. Junior A – Tier II I would rank the NAHL a much closer second than most would give them credit for. Their top 3-4 teams each year would be able to play in the USHL without a problem. Most of their teams in the top ten are about a one to one and a half line drop off from the USHL. The teams toward the bottom are not as strong. Some move to CCHA, many move on to Atlantic, ECAC, or CHA schools, quite a few move to top D-III schools. The team can cover any hockey expenses with the exception of skates. The player is responsible for paying billet costs (usually $200-250/month). Note: Players looking to play in the NAHL, the 'perks' that a player recieves from team-to-team can vary greatly in the NAHL, do your research. Some teams have all the training equipment you need on hand... skate sharpener in locker room, plus a portable one for the road vs. no sharpener at all and player must get skates sharpened at a local pro-shop at his own cost. Some teams have better weight facilities, better meals on the road, stay in better hotels, better bus, 3 meals vs. 2 meals, team provided entertainment on the road, etc, etc, etc. Junior A – Tier III This is a proposed designation for two of the eastern leagues to acknowledge that their level of play is superior to that of their current designation (Junior C). The Junior C label is due to the fact that these teams are in saturated hockey areas that aren’t going to draw large crowds. These teams can charge a player fees to cover team expenses in addition to billet fees, ice time, meals, bus, uniforms, etc. The EJHL (Eastern) is about on par with the NAHL from top to bottom. Their top teams; Jr. Bruins, New Hampshire, maybe Baystate, are deep and talented enough to play at a USHL level. The next group could handle the NAHL middle of the pack. Their biggest problem is lack of depth. The top two lines for most of the teams as talented as any other league, but only the best teams have a 3rd line of talent. Not many have a 4th. Many players move to top Hockey East or ECAC schools or top D-III schools out east. The EJHL plays by NCAA rules instead of typical Jr. A rules; full masks, no 2-line pass or touch icing, game + 1 for fighting (using NCAA definition of fighting). The AJHL (Atlantic) is trying to compete with the EJHL. Most consider this a B+ league. They had some very talented players, but most were in the High Jr B, low Jr. A range. Most players move to eastern D-III schools. Jr. B The two Junior B leagues that are widely regarded as the best are the Central States Hockey League (CSHL) and the Minnesota Junior Hockey League (MNJHL). The CSHL is mostly made up of younger players, 16-18 year olds, that don’t have strong High School or Midget AAA programs to play in. Most of these players are looking to move on to Junior A teams after a year or two. In another thread, someone stated that very few Jr. B players move to D-I. This isn’t true, it is just that they rarely go directly to college from here, they usually play Jr. A somewhere else first. The MNJHL is the league most of us are familiar with. This league has a better national reputation than it does in Minnesota. This is an older league for 18-20 year olds. Most players have finished High School and have had some level success. This isn’t the hack / goon league that it was reputed to be, the game is simply faster and more physical than HS hockey. Rochester & Dubuque are markets that once held USHL teams, but couldn’t make the transition to the Tier I rules. They are both run like Jr. A franchises. The Northern Lights have laid out a commitment to player & personal development that I think all teams should take a look at. The Owls and Lakers need to catch up a bit on and off the ice, but have done better the past couple of years. I personally wish that more MN players who want to continue playing competitive hockey would take a closer look at the league. In the Southwest there is the Western States Hockey League. The WSHL has been fairly weak, but has been expanding into Texas and getting more competitive. The main exception is the Phoenix Polar Bears. They have been one of the most dominant teams in Junior B hockey over the last 5-6 years. They have done a tremendous job moving players to the next level. In the Northwest there is the NORPAC. Some of their young players move to the BCHL or the WHL. It’s a weaker league, but a stepping stone for better players. In the East, there is the Empire League, the MET, and the IJHL. Who the better league is depends on who you talk to, but they all sound fairly even. The Empire League has direct ties to most EJHL teams, while the MET has some ties to some of the AJHL teams. In Junior B, teams are allowed to charge players a 'tuition' in order to help cover team expenses. I believe the cap for Junior B is ~$3,000 Jr. C I’m less familiar with the ‘true’ Jr. C teams. There is the CHA and the NEJDL. I think the CHA has been around longer and has more teams. In Junior C, teams are allowed to charge players a 'tuition' in order to help cover team expenses. I believe that there is no limit on the amount a teams can charge. This also applies to the EJHL & AJHL (for now). That’s about all I know. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Hope this helps!! Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... lap>Reggie Dunlap</A> at: 7/18/05 4:13 pm

Observer85 · Post by **Observer85** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:28 pm

Reggie Dunlap- Excellent post. You should save this and reproduce it every year when questions regarding the different levels of junior play are being discussed. One observation though is the comment on the EJHL top teams being on par with the level of play found at the USHL level. I would have to look at the data but I believe that most of the EJHL teams have struggled each of the past 2 years when in Blaine attending the NAHL Annual Showcase event. Maybe the top EJHL teams would be on par with the top NAHL teams, not the USHL's.

Puckingaround · Post by **Puckingaround** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:38 pm

At the tourney in Blaine last season there were 36 games played between the NAHL and the EJHL. The NAHL won 27 of those games. The EJHL came away with just 9 wins. Of those 9 wins, the biggest upset was the Monarchs beating the defending NAHL champions.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:49 pm

Thanks a lot Reggie, that was exactly what I was looking for. It helped a lot Observer, I know he said that a few could compete with USHL, but he did say <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The EJHL (Eastern) is about on par with the NAHL from top to bottom.<hr></blockquote> which is close to what you were saying. Do you think that geography has anything to do with the EJHL being slightly less "talented" as the NAHL & USHL? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

Observer85 · Post by **Observer85** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:32 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Do you think that geography has anything to do with the EJHL being slightly less "talented" as the NAHL & USHL? <hr></blockquote> Geography might play a part in the talent level of some of the EJHL teams. I am guessing many kids on the east coast are reluctant to move away from the east coast. However, having written that, I noticed on the rosters of several USHL teams this past June (Lincoln, Tri City, Sioux Falls, Des Moines, Green Bay) were players from EJHL teams. So that would tell me those players are looking for other opportunities to showcase themselves. Not sure why the EJHL teams have not been able to hold their own when in Blaine. After reading many of the posts from east coast posters during the week Holy Angels was out east, you would think that their talent level was more than adequate. Maybe the better players get a chance to directly into a college, whether it be D1 of D3, or if they are really talented, they go north and play in the Canadian Major Junior leagues. Most of the kids in eastern schools are older than the kids in Minnesota and non east coast schools. When I was in St. Cloud last week at the Select 17's, I noticed that many of the east coast kids whose birthdays were in January to June 1988 were entering their junior year of high school. Kids in Minnesota with the same birthdates are entering their senior years of high school.

Reggie Dunlap · Post by **Reggie Dunlap** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:08 pm

I updated my original post to include Jr B & C. To answer a couple of questions... First, this was the first year of the EJHL coming to the NAHL showcase. Even thought they only came away with 9 wins, there were quite a few 1 goal games or 2 goal games w/ empty netters. The EJHL teams were hurt most by thier lack of depth. For the most part, the top 2 lines on each team were interchangable with any leagues. There was often a noticible drop when a 3rd or 4th line saw the ice. Second, since it was the NAHL's showcase, they got to play by their rules. The EJHL uses NCAA rules and is more vertical and a better overall skating league than the NAHL. The NAHL is considering using college rules regarding 2-line pass and touch icing. It will be interesting to see if that changes anything this year. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Maybe the top EJHL teams would be on par with the top NAHL teams, not the USHL's.<hr></blockquote> I agree, I didn't say they were as good as the USHL top teams, they just would have been able to be a competative team in the USHL. If I had to make a list of the top US junior teams based on when I saw the various teams last year, I would have removed Green Bay, Indiana, & Des Moines from the USHL and inserted Texas (NAHL), Fargo (NAHL), Texarkana (NAHL), Jr. Bruins (EJHL), New Hampshire (EJHL) or BayState (EJHL). JMO. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Do you think that geography has anything to do with the EJHL being slightly less "talented" as the NAHL & USHL?<hr></blockquote> Observer nailed it. There is competition from both Prep Schools and Major Juniors for the East's top players. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... lap>Reggie Dunlap</A> at: 7/18/05 4:10 pm

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:36 pm

Awesome! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> Thanks <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

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