Duluth Marshall

HappyHockeyFan · Post by **HappyHockeyFan** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:33 am

Karl, I am wondering how you think Duluth Marshall's move to AA might effect Duluth East in the future as some players that might not have wanted to go to Marshall being a single A school might now opt to go there cutting into some of East's talent pool?

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:06 pm

Short term, I'm not terribly concerned. Marshall will have to prove itself in AA to become a destination. For all the hand-wringing, most of the kids who go to Marshall from the East youth program have been there from their earliest days, and I certainly haven't seen any signs of a sudden switch since the announcement to opt up. The hockey culture is pretty deeply embedded at East. That certainly won't change so long as Randolph is still there, and with the right successor, it won't change after he retires, either.

My biggest questions about Marshall involve depth. Marshall is a tiny, expensive school, and while they've done a good job of pulling in a Jack Connolly here or a Judd Peterson there, the depth necessary to win in AA makes it a different story. There are only so many great players in NE MN, and with a couple of free, very successful hockey schools in the area, what reason would there be for an exodus? Unless they can pull together a dream team that takes all the top kids for a year or two and win something big, making any huge inroads won't be easy.

Long term, anything is possible, but the list of things that will go into that is too long to ramble about here.

BigTen · Post by **BigTen** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:22 pm

Curious who the teams are in the years Hilltopper Holiday Classic.
They have had some top Minnesota A and Wisconsin schools the last couple years.
Can they now attract some top 20 Minnesota AA schools?

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:27 pm

The only way I could see Marshall overtaking East as "the" Duluth program would be if Marshall made a huge institutional effort to boost their hockey program. If they put enough resources into the team so that any talented hockey player could attend there for free or next-to-free, then they could reach a critical mass of top players that would make them more attractive than East.

I think Marshall's real potential golden goose is Hermantown. As we all know, the Hawks already churn out enough talent to compete at high level AA most years. And if Plante persists with his asinine refusal to move up, then Marshall has a great opportunity to dazzle kids and parents with not just a "great education", but a great education along with better competition of a AA schedule, more exposure playing in marquee AA games, and the chance to celebrate before 18,000 screaming fans at the X during prime time instead of half-heartedly raising a runner-up trophy at noon before 9,000 sleepy spectators who are still too full from brunch to get out of their seats.

Marshall has made statements that they are indeed moving forward with a new commitment to hockey, as the formation of a girls team and the move to AA show. Now if this push includes enough donor cash to remove the barrier of cost, then I think they will have the opportunity to become "the" Duluth program.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:54 pm

rainier wrote:The only way I could see Marshall overtaking East as "the" Duluth program would be if Marshall made a huge institutional effort to boost their hockey program. If they put enough resources into the team so that any talented hockey player could attend there for free or next-to-free, then they could reach a critical mass of top players that would make them more attractive than East.

I think Marshall's real potential golden goose is Hermantown. As we all know, the Hawks already churn out enough talent to compete at high level AA most years. And if Plante persists with his asinine refusal to move up, then Marshall has a great opportunity to dazzle kids and parents with not just a "great education", but a great education along with better competition of a AA schedule, more exposure playing in marquee AA games, and the chance to celebrate before 18,000 screaming fans at the X during prime time instead of half-heartedly raising a runner-up trophy at noon before 9,000 sleepy spectators who are still too full from brunch to get out of their seats.

Marshall has made statements that they are indeed moving forward with a new commitment to hockey, as the formation of a girls team and the move to AA show. Now if this push includes enough donor cash to remove the barrier of cost, then I think they will have the opportunity to become "the" Duluth program.

If they follow the model of most metro privates, the "barrier of cost" can become utterly negligible. If they go ahead with dorms on campus, East and Hermantown are only a drop in the pool of potential recruits. The D1 school down the road can draw high school dreamers into town from far and wide, IMHO.

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:14 pm

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:If they follow the model of most metro privates, the "barrier of cost" can become utterly negligible. If they go ahead with dorms on campus, East and Hermantown are only a drop in the pool of potential recruits. The D1 school down the road can draw high school dreamers into town from far and wide, IMHO.

The latest I've heard on the dorms is that, while they'll likely happen, they're much more targeted at international students (who pay the full price tag) than hockey players. Perhaps things have changed post-recession, but as of a few years ago, Marshall's financial situation was...not ideal.

Marshall is unique among private school opt-ups. Holy Angels did it when they got a new coach who brought a bunch of great bantams with him. Benilde did it immediately after two state championships. Holy Family did it with a fairly new coach who's pushing things aggressively. Marshall fits none of those categories. That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it's worth noting.

HappyHockeyFan · Post by **HappyHockeyFan** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:16 am

I guess in reality Duluth Marshall could reasonably pull from East, Denfeld, Hermantown, Cloquet and Proctor and even Virginia if you are talking dorms. It should be interesting to see how things develop if they are advertising a new focus on hockey and move up to AA, clearly they have to understand the cost barrier needs to be addressed and probably have a plan for that.

lovethisgame · Post by **lovethisgame** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:47 am

Do you think they will stay competitive in 7AA this year?

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:32 pm

lovethisgame wrote:Do you think they will stay competitive in 7AA this year?

Probably a 4 or 5 seed in 7AA. They have some good defensemen and a couple of young forwards from Hermantown who should be good. But they lost a lot off last year's team, both up front and in goal. They could be a section semifinal upset threat, but anything more is probably a reach.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:58 pm

I think the same about Marshall, 4-5 seed. They lost a lot of scoring. Top 3 will be Rapids, East, and the Elks(3 seed I bet). Andover and Cloquet will be part of the next tier.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:05 pm

karl(east) wrote:
lovethisgame wrote:Do you think they will stay competitive in 7AA this year?
Probably a 4 or 5 seed in 7AA. They have some good defensemen and a couple of young forwards from Hermantown who should be good. But they lost a lot off last year's team, both up front and in goal. They could be a section semifinal upset threat, but anything more is probably a reach.

Probably end up something like this...
1. DEast
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. DMarshall
5. Andover or
Grand Rapids or Forest Lake
8. Cambridge-Isanti
9. St. Francis

wolfman · Post by **wolfman** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:13 pm

I think GR will be the four seed. Tough to crack the top three in 7AA this year. GR might be a three seed in a few years though.

Wet Paint · Post by **Wet Paint** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:07 pm

elliott70 wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
lovethisgame wrote:Do you think they will stay competitive in 7AA this year?
Probably a 4 or 5 seed in 7AA. They have some good defensemen and a couple of young forwards from Hermantown who should be good. But they lost a lot off last year's team, both up front and in goal. They could be a section semifinal upset threat, but anything more is probably a reach.
Probably end up something like this...
1. DEast
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. DMarshall
5. Andover or
Grand Rapids or Forest Lake
8. Cambridge-Isanti
9. St. Francis

.
An injury to a DM kid related to football that was supposed to affect hockey was mentioned someplace earlier this summer or fall. Does anybody have any info on that?

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:57 pm

wolfman wrote:I think GR will be the four seed. Tough to crack the top three in 7AA this year. GR might be a three seed in a few years though.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:06 pm

elliott70 wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
lovethisgame wrote:Do you think they will stay competitive in 7AA this year?
Probably a 4 or 5 seed in 7AA. They have some good defensemen and a couple of young forwards from Hermantown who should be good. But they lost a lot off last year's team, both up front and in goal. They could be a section semifinal upset threat, but anything more is probably a reach.
Probably end up something like this...
1. DEast
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. DMarshall
5. Andover or
Grand Rapids or Forest Lake
8. Cambridge-Isanti
9. St. Francis

Section 8AA Final will be Monticello vs River Lakes. Maybe Bemidji can serve popcorn since it will be at the Sanford Center.

My_Kid_Loves_Hockey · Post by **My_Kid_Loves_Hockey** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:48 pm

Section 8AA Final will be Monticello vs River Lakes. Maybe Bemidji can serve popcorn since it will be at the Sanford Center.

Monticello is playing in 5A per the latest section assignment thread.

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:24 pm

My_Kid_Loves_Hockey wrote:
Section 8AA Final will be Monticello vs River Lakes. Maybe Bemidji can serve popcorn since it will be at the Sanford Center.
Monticello is playing in 5A per the latest section assignment thread.

Good thing for Bemidji

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:01 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
karl(east) wrote: Probably a 4 or 5 seed in 7AA. They have some good defensemen and a couple of young forwards from Hermantown who should be good. But they lost a lot off last year's team, both up front and in goal. They could be a section semifinal upset threat, but anything more is probably a reach.
Probably end up something like this...
1. DEast
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. DMarshall
5. Andover or
Grand Rapids or Forest Lake
8. Cambridge-Isanti
9. St. Francis
Section 8AA Final will be Monticello vs River Lakes. Maybe Bemidji can serve popcorn since it will be at the Sanford Center.

I thought the fish would bite quicker.
Not quite in season yet, I guess.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:03 am

My preseason top 4 is

DEAST, Cloquet, Elk River, and Grand Rapids.
(In no particular order.)

DMarshall is looking at #5 or #6.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:08 am

elliott70 wrote:My preseason top 4 is

DEAST, Cloquet, Elk River, and Grand Rapids.
(In no particular order.)

DMarshall is looking at #5 or #6.

You do know K. Bender left CEC for the NAHL MN Wilderness don't you? I have a hard time seeing CEC get into the top 3 until their current bantam players transition to the HS level.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:53 am

elliott70 wrote:
TheHockeyDJ wrote:
elliott70 wrote: Probably end up something like this...
1. DEast
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. DMarshall
5. Andover or
Grand Rapids or Forest Lake
8. Cambridge-Isanti
9. St. Francis
Section 8AA Final will be Monticello vs River Lakes. Maybe Bemidji can serve popcorn since it will be at the Sanford Center.
I thought the fish would bite quicker.
Not quite in season yet, I guess.

Back to the tackle box

Wet Paint · Post by **Wet Paint** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:07 pm

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
elliott70 wrote:My preseason top 4 is

DEAST, Cloquet, Elk River, and Grand Rapids.
(In no particular order.)

DMarshall is looking at #5 or #6.
You do know K. Bender left CEC for the NAHL MN Wilderness don't you? I have a hard time seeing CEC get into the top 3 until their current bantam players transition to the HS level.

Sort of the same boat Rapids is in right now. Some talent and some potential talent but until they get seasoned it will be a crap shoot. I like East and Elk River and then whoever manages to pull it together for 3 on down.

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:58 pm

Wet Paint wrote:
TheHockeyDJ wrote:
elliott70 wrote:My preseason top 4 is

DEAST, Cloquet, Elk River, and Grand Rapids.
(In no particular order.)

DMarshall is looking at #5 or #6.
You do know K. Bender left CEC for the NAHL MN Wilderness don't you? I have a hard time seeing CEC get into the top 3 until their current bantam players transition to the HS level.
Sort of the same boat Rapids is in right now. Some talent and some potential talent but until they get seasoned it will be a crap shoot. I like East and Elk River and then whoever manages to pull it together for 3 on down.

I don't see it as a crapshoot at all for GR. They will have 2 outstanding lines, a 3rd very good line, a goaltender who is doing well in the Elite League, and the demise of their D-corps has been greatly exaggerated. Defense will be their weakest group, but that is totally relative, as Stampohar, Heitkamp, and Anderson will provide a solid nucleus. East will be excellent as always, but I think GR has the most talent. However, until I actually see GR beat East at Amsoil, I will always pick the Hounds.

1.DE
2.GR
3.ER
4.DM
5.Andover
6.CEC (higher if Bender comes back)

As for DM, Krenzen, Liberty, and Hanson will provide them with a very good D corps, but their real talent at forward is pretty young. No clue about their goaltending. Perhaps there will be a surprise player or two that shows up at Marshall next year given they usually find a player or two from communities surrounding Duluth.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:59 am

I don't disagree on your take at all. Rapids has going for it that they have East at home this year. The 1 seed will be nice as whoever gets the 2 I think will get Elk River in the semifinals. I know upsets can happen, but I feel confident 7AA is gonna come down to a Rapids vs East matchup on the last Thursday in February. Does anyone think on a realistic level that anyone has a legit shot from that 4-7 range to surprise and sneak into a 3 or even 2 seed?

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:45 pm

TheHockeyDJ wrote:I don't disagree on your take at all. Rapids has going for it that they have East at home this year. The 1 seed will be nice as whoever gets the 2 I think will get Elk River in the semifinals. I know upsets can happen, but I feel confident 7AA is gonna come down to a Rapids vs East matchup on the last Thursday in February. Does anyone think on a realistic level that anyone has a legit shot from that 4-7 range to surprise and sneak into a 3 or even 2 seed?

It is Elk Rivers section this year.