CATBIRD SEAT: The state of hockey in Cloquet

[kniven]

I found this article recently.

CATBIRD SEAT: The state of hockey in Cloquet

I first realized how important the story we did last week on the Cloquet-Esko-Carlton hockey classification was when I looked at my Twitter feed.

The Pine Journal’s story had been picked up by @followthepuck, the Twitter feed for the statewide hockey website of the same name. Only, the Pine Journal wasn’t the website to which I was directed. It was the Grand Forks Herald, which told me something.

When the CEC hockey programs think about changing classes, it’s evidently news in North Dakota.

So, let’s take a moment to consider this.

Cloquet School Board member Jim Crowley, who by every account I’ve ever seen and in every personal experience I’ve ever had with him is a thoroughly decent human being, asked Activities Director Tom Lenarz to poll the players and parents as to whether the programs should drop to Class A to bring them in line with Minnesota State High School League enrollment guidelines.


Crowley’s argument was that dropping to Class A would give more Cloquet athletes (and of course, those in the program from Esko and Carlton) a better chance to compete at the state tournament.


The girls’ program was polled first, and elected to stay in Class AA. The boys’ program, to the best of my knowledge, would rather die than drop.


I’m here to say that this is a good thing.


I tried to reach Crowley for this article but was not able to speak with him before deadline. He’s a sports parent, and as such understands the competitive element.


But when I talked with boys Coach Dave Esse last week, he struck the right note. He said that it isn’t always about getting to State.


In the early 1990s, the MSHSL wrecked the best thing going, which was the one-class state hockey tournament. Back then, it wasn’t about getting everyone to State, and the result was the most amazing state tournament anywhere in the nation. It still is — the boys state hockey tournament is the best-attended high school sports event in the United States.


But now it crowns two champions. Longtime readers of this column know my feelings about that.


For the MSHSL, it’s all about sportsmanship, unless you happen to be named Kailee Kiminski.


Esse said it best: He’d rather go to State once every 10 or 12 years and beat the best than go more often and beat lesser programs.


The fact that Duluth East is now the seven-time defending Section 7AA champion tends to put a damper on other kids going to State, but that really raises the bar for them rather than punishes them. Elk River had a marvelous team this season — in fact, one of the highest-scoring offenses in the state — but they couldn’t knock the Greyhounds from their perch. That’s something to shoot for, not something to run away from.


One of the arguments used before the school board was that the combined enrollment of the schools of 1,070 was one of the smallest in the top classes. Yet Duluth Marshall, with a 9-12 enrollment of 268 students, has opted up to Class AA for the next two years, and it’s quite arguable that the best program in the area is not Duluth East’s but Hermantown’s, with a 9-12 enrollment of 615.


Now, you can argue that Marshall as a private school has an advantage because they draw from other schools’ feeder programs instead of having one of their own. And that’s why I’ve argued in the past that all private schools should either have to opt up or have their own state tournament as a simple fairness issue. Yet Marshall, which was once the laughingstock of the Duluth hockey community after losing 21-1 to a Dave Spehar-led East team, did it the hard way. They got better. Much better. And now they are moving up.


The argument is also that Hermantown should move up too, and I’m one that subscribes to that theory too. Clearly they have nothing left to prove in Class A, and should they win the state tournament this week they will simply reinforce that point.


But good programs can be built with small student bodies.


Enrollment isn’t the issue. Hard work and pride in the product is, and the CEC programs have that in spades. Both of them. It would be a crying shame if they dropped down.


And if they ever did, it would even be news in North Dakota.

[rainier]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty asinine when that guy suggested Cloquet go down to A, specifically for two reasons:

1. Both the Pee Wee and Bantam teams last season were top 10 in AA. Talk about bad timing, this guy suggests dropping down to A right when the kids, fans, and parents in Cloquet are salivating over a run in the near future in which they will be among the elite in the state, a run that will likely have them as legitimate contenders for not just the 7AA title, but also a state AA title.

2. Hermantown is in 7A, which is where Cloquet would be should they drop down. Not that the Jacks never beat the Hawks, but rarely over the past 10 years has Cloquet been better than Hermantown, if at all. Why drop down to 7A just to end up playing a team that is as good as any in 7AA? Trips to state would be just as infrequent as they are now for the Jacks.

With an enrollment over 1,000 and a rock solid hockey culture in place, I can't see CEC ever going to A. The bottom would have to completely fall out before that could become a legitimate option, and that doesn't look likely anytime soon.

[DrGaf]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty asinine when that guy suggested Cloquet go down to A, specifically for two reasons:

1. Both the Pee Wee and Bantam teams last season were top 10 in AA. Talk about bad timing, this guy suggests dropping down to A right when the kids, fans, and parents in Cloquet are salivating over a run in the near future in which they will be among the elite in the state, a run that will likely have them as legitimate contenders for not just the 7AA title, but also a state AA title.

2. Hermantown is in 7A, which is where Cloquet would be should they drop down. Not that the Jacks never beat the Hawks, but rarely over the past 10 years has Cloquet been better than Hermantown, if at all. Why drop down to 7A just to end up playing a team that is as good as any in 7AA? Trips to state would be just as infrequent as they are now for the Jacks.

With an enrollment over 1,000 and a rock solid hockey culture in place, I can't see CEC ever going to A. The bottom would have to completely fall out before that could become a legitimate option, and that doesn't look likely anytime soon.

/
CEC Bantams next year will be a force to be reckoned with ... this group in 2018 and 2019 will be great. The 7AA finals in 2018 with CEC and East will be one of the best ever.

Karl? Kniven? You're the local experts up there ... thoughts??

[old goalie85]

Last years Pee-wees from CEC were better then East. Both had big name staffs coaching. So I'm sure kids on both sides improved. My kid's team played both twice.

[Froggy Richards]

I found this article recently.

CATBIRD SEAT: The state of hockey in Cloquet

I first realized how important the story we did last week on the Cloquet-Esko-Carlton hockey classification was when I looked at my Twitter feed.

The Pine Journal’s story had been picked up by @followthepuck, the Twitter feed for the statewide hockey website of the same name. Only, the Pine Journal wasn’t the website to which I was directed. It was the Grand Forks Herald, which told me something.

When the CEC hockey programs think about changing classes, it’s evidently news in North Dakota.

So, let’s take a moment to consider this.

Cloquet School Board member Jim Crowley, who by every account I’ve ever seen and in every personal experience I’ve ever had with him is a thoroughly decent human being, asked Activities Director Tom Lenarz to poll the players and parents as to whether the programs should drop to Class A to bring them in line with Minnesota State High School League enrollment guidelines.


Crowley’s argument was that dropping to Class A would give more Cloquet athletes (and of course, those in the program from Esko and Carlton) a better chance to compete at the state tournament.


The girls’ program was polled first, and elected to stay in Class AA. The boys’ program, to the best of my knowledge, would rather die than drop.


I’m here to say that this is a good thing.


I tried to reach Crowley for this article but was not able to speak with him before deadline. He’s a sports parent, and as such understands the competitive element.


But when I talked with boys Coach Dave Esse last week, he struck the right note. He said that it isn’t always about getting to State.


In the early 1990s, the MSHSL wrecked the best thing going, which was the one-class state hockey tournament. Back then, it wasn’t about getting everyone to State, and the result was the most amazing state tournament anywhere in the nation. It still is — the boys state hockey tournament is the best-attended high school sports event in the United States.


But now it crowns two champions. Longtime readers of this column know my feelings about that.


For the MSHSL, it’s all about sportsmanship, unless you happen to be named Kailee Kiminski.


Esse said it best: He’d rather go to State once every 10 or 12 years and beat the best than go more often and beat lesser programs.


The fact that Duluth East is now the seven-time defending Section 7AA champion tends to put a damper on other kids going to State, but that really raises the bar for them rather than punishes them. Elk River had a marvelous team this season — in fact, one of the highest-scoring offenses in the state — but they couldn’t knock the Greyhounds from their perch. That’s something to shoot for, not something to run away from.


One of the arguments used before the school board was that the combined enrollment of the schools of 1,070 was one of the smallest in the top classes. Yet Duluth Marshall, with a 9-12 enrollment of 268 students, has opted up to Class AA for the next two years, and it’s quite arguable that the best program in the area is not Duluth East’s but Hermantown’s, with a 9-12 enrollment of 615.


Now, you can argue that Marshall as a private school has an advantage because they draw from other schools’ feeder programs instead of having one of their own. And that’s why I’ve argued in the past that all private schools should either have to opt up or have their own state tournament as a simple fairness issue. Yet Marshall, which was once the laughingstock of the Duluth hockey community after losing 21-1 to a Dave Spehar-led East team, did it the hard way. They got better. Much better. And now they are moving up.


The argument is also that Hermantown should move up too, and I’m one that subscribes to that theory too. Clearly they have nothing left to prove in Class A, and should they win the state tournament this week they will simply reinforce that point.


But good programs can be built with small student bodies.


Enrollment isn’t the issue. Hard work and pride in the product is, and the CEC programs have that in spades. Both of them. It would be a crying shame if they dropped down.


And if they ever did, it would even be news in North Dakota.

The Wild Card here will always be Esko. If you look at the Squirt/Mite levels, the best players are from Esko and it's not even close. I'm not as familiar with the PeeWees and Bantams but I assume Esko contributes pretty well there too as traditionally Esko has put out some pretty good players. Should Esko ever decide to leave the co-op and either go it alone or join a different co-op then the decision would be made for Cloquet. What frequently happens in a co-op is that the smaller of the entities doesn't feel appreciated and gets dictated to. This feeling exists among some in Esko. Esko is anything but an equal partner in this co-op and they have options. Should they ever decide to co-op with another neighboring Class A school that is the same distance as Cloquet they would have a VERY strong 7A program. Nothing would surprise me in this day and age.

[Froggy Richards]

Last years Pee-wees from CEC were better then East. Both had big name staffs coaching. So I'm sure kids on both sides improved. My kid's team played both twice.

That Cloquet PeeWee team from last year was scary good. Their Bantams were quite a bit better than East too. The balance of power should shift to Cloquet in the coming years. It always surprises me what short memories people have. East caught lightning in a bottle at exactly the right time last year and everything went their way in the Playoffs. They beat four teams in a row that were better than them on paper. It was an incredible run and they deserve credit for that, but all of a sudden everyone forgets that they were not a very good team prior to that. They should always be a factor because of the Youth numbers and Randolph but I can't help but think that last year was an anomaly.

[kniven]

I found this article recently.

CATBIRD SEAT: The state of hockey in Cloquet

I first realized how important the story we did last week on the Cloquet-Esko-Carlton hockey classification was when I looked at my Twitter feed.

The Pine Journal’s story had been picked up by @followthepuck, the Twitter feed for the statewide hockey website of the same name. Only, the Pine Journal wasn’t the website to which I was directed. It was the Grand Forks Herald, which told me something.

When the CEC hockey programs think about changing classes, it’s evidently news in North Dakota.

So, let’s take a moment to consider this.

Cloquet School Board member Jim Crowley, who by every account I’ve ever seen and in every personal experience I’ve ever had with him is a thoroughly decent human being, asked Activities Director Tom Lenarz to poll the players and parents as to whether the programs should drop to Class A to bring them in line with Minnesota State High School League enrollment guidelines.


Crowley’s argument was that dropping to Class A would give more Cloquet athletes (and of course, those in the program from Esko and Carlton) a better chance to compete at the state tournament.


The girls’ program was polled first, and elected to stay in Class AA. The boys’ program, to the best of my knowledge, would rather die than drop.


I’m here to say that this is a good thing.


I tried to reach Crowley for this article but was not able to speak with him before deadline. He’s a sports parent, and as such understands the competitive element.


But when I talked with boys Coach Dave Esse last week, he struck the right note. He said that it isn’t always about getting to State.


In the early 1990s, the MSHSL wrecked the best thing going, which was the one-class state hockey tournament. Back then, it wasn’t about getting everyone to State, and the result was the most amazing state tournament anywhere in the nation. It still is — the boys state hockey tournament is the best-attended high school sports event in the United States.


But now it crowns two champions. Longtime readers of this column know my feelings about that.


For the MSHSL, it’s all about sportsmanship, unless you happen to be named Kailee Kiminski.


Esse said it best: He’d rather go to State once every 10 or 12 years and beat the best than go more often and beat lesser programs.


The fact that Duluth East is now the seven-time defending Section 7AA champion tends to put a damper on other kids going to State, but that really raises the bar for them rather than punishes them. Elk River had a marvelous team this season — in fact, one of the highest-scoring offenses in the state — but they couldn’t knock the Greyhounds from their perch. That’s something to shoot for, not something to run away from.


One of the arguments used before the school board was that the combined enrollment of the schools of 1,070 was one of the smallest in the top classes. Yet Duluth Marshall, with a 9-12 enrollment of 268 students, has opted up to Class AA for the next two years, and it’s quite arguable that the best program in the area is not Duluth East’s but Hermantown’s, with a 9-12 enrollment of 615.


Now, you can argue that Marshall as a private school has an advantage because they draw from other schools’ feeder programs instead of having one of their own. And that’s why I’ve argued in the past that all private schools should either have to opt up or have their own state tournament as a simple fairness issue. Yet Marshall, which was once the laughingstock of the Duluth hockey community after losing 21-1 to a Dave Spehar-led East team, did it the hard way. They got better. Much better. And now they are moving up.


The argument is also that Hermantown should move up too, and I’m one that subscribes to that theory too. Clearly they have nothing left to prove in Class A, and should they win the state tournament this week they will simply reinforce that point.


But good programs can be built with small student bodies.


Enrollment isn’t the issue. Hard work and pride in the product is, and the CEC programs have that in spades. Both of them. It would be a crying shame if they dropped down.


And if they ever did, it would even be news in North Dakota.

The Wild Card here will always be Esko. If you look at the Squirt/Mite levels, the best players are from Esko and it's not even close. I'm not as familiar with the PeeWees and Bantams but I assume Esko contributes pretty well there too as traditionally Esko has put out some pretty good players. Should Esko ever decide to leave the co-op and either go it alone or join a different co-op then the decision would be made for Cloquet. What frequently happens in a co-op is that the smaller of the entities doesn't feel appreciated and gets dictated to. This feeling exists among some in Esko. Esko is anything but an equal partner in this co-op and they have options. Should they ever decide to co-op with another neighboring Class A school that is the same distance as Cloquet they would have a VERY strong 7A program. Nothing would surprise me in this day and age.

I live in Esko. My son played mites in Esko. Once kids of Cloquet, Esko, and Carlton hits squirts, they all go to Cloquet, and that's were CEC begins. Esko will never leave the CEC co-op. There was talk Esko have their own squirt program, but that died quickly. There are 3 indoor rinks within CEC. There is a long, true tradition of high school hockey in Cloquet. Numbers/talent in Esko a nice addition to Cloquet, but it's Cloquet that makes the whole thing work. Esko contributes talent and depth. Carlton's numbers are up in the last 5 years in youth hockey. Numbers great in Cloquet and Esko.

From what I've heard talking to old timers, Hermantown actually had the first shot at combining with Esko years ago for hockey but turned Esko down. CEC is strong and won't be going anywhere.

[karl(east)]

The future for Cloquet definitely looks bright, based on their youth teams. The only real possible concern is depth; it's a lot easier to dominate at the youth levels with a handful of skilled players, and having more depth helps cover for kids who peak young or take different roads. Remember, the dad with the most recognizable last name there took the Canadian Major Junior route (and that was back before it was cool).

It's not surprise that Esko's clout is growing within the CEC co-op. Esko is, believe it or not, the wealthiest municipality in northern Minnesota (though there are parts of Duluth that are wealthier). That co-op is pretty well entrenched, though. I doubt it will go anywhere anytime soon.

As East's playoff run being an "anomaly," let's not forget that they were considered a top 10 team in the preseason by pretty much everyone. If you watched the games, it's not like they were clearly weaker than the top 10 teams they beat in the playoffs. They underachieved for a while at the start of the season (not a huge shock, with a young team and a complex system), then put it all together and overachieved some near the end. Reality was probably somewhere in between--they had the talent of a 5-10-ranked team, as predicted at the start of the season.

And, for the ten trillionth time, don't judge East's future by the performance of last year's bantams--they had 4 bantam-eligible players playing varsity, and that group finished 3rd at State as PeeWees, losing by one goal to undefeated Edina. There may be some relative down years further out along the horizon (a lot can change in the meantime), and it would be delusional to expect East to keep winning 7AA in perpetuity, but they're not going anywhere anytime soon, either. Depth kills.

As someone who was at East during one of the great peaks of the East-Cloquet rivalry, I'd love to see that again in a section final in the near future. It's hard to top that one.

[Rocketwrister]

It was said in a previous comment, but I'll reiterate...the pee wees and bantams AA teams had some not only big names, but also great coaching behind their benches. Those 2 teams were amazing to watch. They were aggressive, played offensively.

Will things change when they get to HS..a more defensive approach? I sure hope not, I am one hoping the 'Jacks get back into the top tier of section 7AA.

As for that newspaper article...I believe CEC would go down to A BEFORE Hermantown goes AA (at least with Plante as head coach).