City Pages cover story: "Assault on the State of Hockey

xy · Post by xy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:35 am

I realize it's unfashionable to praise him these days because he's viewed as soft and not "fiery" enough, but Joe Mauer was the top pick in the baseball draft, an all-state basketball player, and the USA Today national high school football player of the year, so any discussion about Minnesota's best high school athlete pretty much has to include him.

Referring back to the topic of this thread, you have to be really careful here - I've been guilty of it myself plenty of times - about deciding you know what's best for other people. It might seem odd to us, but some kids might end up not regretting the move even if they don't make it to the NHL. This was written by a player from Michigan who chose major junior over college, ended up not making the NHL, and doesn't regret it (https://brandonarchibald.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/4/):

"I spent five seasons in the OHL, amassed over 290 games and was once an NHL draft pick. An injury forced me from the game for good early in my overage season and I took advantage of the education package I was given when I signed my OHL contract in 2008. But there is something most people aren’t hearing; I wouldn’t trade it for the world. Those five years were the best years both on and off the ice I had ever had. I’ve made memories and lifelong friendships that go beyond the dream of being a National Hockey League player.

"The move to Major Junior hockey instead of college was simply for the fact that my family and I believed it provided the best opportunity to further my career on the ice. We researched and talked to former families and players on their thoughts of the major junior “route” versus college and had a good agent that didn’t push me one way or the other. When it came time we made sure we had a good education package because lets face the facts, not everyone makes the NHL and no one can play forever. I knew exactly what I was getting into when I signed the dotted line . . . ."

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:23 am

imlisteningtothefnsong wrote:If only 3% of the 36,000 high school players play D1 and only 40 USA born kids make it to the few morning skates with the NHL, where are the bulk of majority of the draft picks/NHLer's coming from? Perhaps it's the CHL

92 players have made their NHL debut this season (so far). 42 are Canadian. 20 are American. The remaining 30 are European.

22 players came straight from a European league. 24 last played amateur hockey in the NCAA. The remaining 46 played in the CHL.

Two Americans (10%) played in the CHL prior to their debut in the NHL this season. Six Canadians (14%) played in the NCAA prior to their debut in the NHL this season.

About 340 D1 hockey players graduated from college last year. Some of them debuted in the NHL this year. About 600 player aged out of the CHL last year. None of them have graduated yet.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:34 am

Dan Welch-best athlete. All State Hockey, All state Baseball, All State Football. D1 hockey, could have played baseball at the U as well and probably could have played d1 football too.

GoBigorGoHome · Post by **GoBigorGoHome** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:45 am

Sats81 wrote:Dan Welch-best athlete. All State Hockey, All state Baseball, All State Football. D1 hockey, could have played baseball at the U as well and probably could have played d1 football too.

Dan Welch - early developer. Late bloomers eventually caught up leaving his star to fizzle out.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:46 am

Best minnesota athlete........I'll go with Dave Winfield, not sure anybody else is even close......drafted in baseball,football and basketball

GoBigorGoHome · Post by **GoBigorGoHome** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:53 am

keepyourheadup wrote:Best minnesota athlete........I'll go with Dave Winfield, not sure anybody else is even close......drafted in baseball,football and basketball

I'd say that pretty much ends the debate before it really even got started. First round knockout.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:27 am

GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Sats81 wrote:Dan Welch-best athlete. All State Hockey, All state Baseball, All State Football. D1 hockey, could have played baseball at the U as well and probably could have played d1 football too.
Dan Welch - early developer. Late bloomers eventually caught up leaving his star to fizzle out.

Still doesn't change the fact that he was all state in 3 sports in HS. I think his academics more than anything left his star to fizzle out with tDon.

57special · Post by **57special** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:40 am

Some players aren't cut out for academics, and have trouble getting through HS, let alone college. For those, Major Junior is a sensible option, if they've got the talent.

GoBigorGoHome · Post by **GoBigorGoHome** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:09 am

Sats81 wrote:
GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Sats81 wrote:Dan Welch-best athlete. All State Hockey, All state Baseball, All State Football. D1 hockey, could have played baseball at the U as well and probably could have played d1 football too.
Dan Welch - early developer. Late bloomers eventually caught up leaving his star to fizzle out.
Still doesn't change the fact that he was all state in 3 sports in HS. I think his academics more than anything left his star to fizzle out with tDon.

No argument against him being a decent high school athlete. Under-sized for D1 football, so it's quite a stretch to say he probably could have played football too. Best athlete argument mandates staying power, which Winfield clearly had, and Welch and many others didn't.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:30 am

GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
GoBigorGoHome wrote: Dan Welch - early developer. Late bloomers eventually caught up leaving his star to fizzle out.
Still doesn't change the fact that he was all state in 3 sports in HS. I think his academics more than anything left his star to fizzle out with tDon.
No argument against him being a decent high school athlete. Under-sized for D1 football, so it's quite a stretch to say he probably could have played football too. Best athlete argument mandates staying power, which Winfield clearly had, and Welch and many others didn't.

He was more then "a decent high school athlete", and he was 5'10" 200 lbs, I don't think his size would have been an issue playing RB or safety at the college level....

@hockeytweet · Post by **@hockeytweet** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:45 am

What if the WHL is viewed as an opportunity to play, while gaining some money to offset the cost of a college education eventually? If the $15000 per year is correct, that's not too bad. As good as a 529 plan--LOL.

My guess is, that for an American, you would want to play in one of the US markets just to have a normal HS education.

Just a thought.

I can't see many American boys being happy living up in Saskatoon though.

GoBigorGoHome · Post by **GoBigorGoHome** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:59 am

Sats81 wrote:
GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Sats81 wrote: Still doesn't change the fact that he was all state in 3 sports in HS. I think his academics more than anything left his star to fizzle out with tDon.
No argument against him being a decent high school athlete. Under-sized for D1 football, so it's quite a stretch to say he probably could have played football too. Best athlete argument mandates staying power, which Winfield clearly had, and Welch and many others didn't.
He was more then "a decent high school athlete", and he was 5'10" 200 lbs, I don't think his size would have been an issue playing RB or safety at the college level....

Yes, his size would have most certainly been an issue for D1, unless he could run a sub-4.6 second 40 yard dash, which maybe he could, I don't know. Even if he could, it's still quite a stretch to say "he probably could have played D1 football".

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:11 pm

GoBigorGoHome wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
GoBigorGoHome wrote: No argument against him being a decent high school athlete. Under-sized for D1 football, so it's quite a stretch to say he probably could have played football too. Best athlete argument mandates staying power, which Winfield clearly had, and Welch and many others didn't.
He was more then "a decent high school athlete", and he was 5'10" 200 lbs, I don't think his size would have been an issue playing RB or safety at the college level....
Yes, his size would have most certainly been an issue for D1, unless he could run a sub-4.6 second 40 yard dash, which maybe he could, I don't know. Even if he could, it's still quite a stretch to say "he probably could have played D1 football".

I'll guess we will just agree to disagree.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:13 pm

The major item left out of that article are the stipulations that the WHL education package has. I'm somewhat surprised it wasn't mentioned because that is certainly a key factor to contemplate when you are trying to figure out what you want to do for your kid.

I've always said that there is no one "right" decision for everybody. I am not sure why people insist on thinking that if a kid leaves HS hockey, he is somehow harming himself. Even as much as I think NCAA hockey is the best route to take, I recognize it isn't for everybody.

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:41 pm

@hockeytweet wrote:What if the WHL is viewed as an opportunity to play, while gaining some money to offset the cost of a college education eventually? If the $15000 per year is correct, that's not too bad.

Yeah, as Gopher Blog mentioned, there are stipulations on that. Basically, if a kid plays a couple of seasons in the minors, that education package evaporates like a fart in the wind. If they guaranteed that money for at least 10 years or so, they'd have a much stronger proposition for all the top players. College hockey wouldn't disappear, but you'd see a few more high-end prospects heading north than what you see now. Some of the moderately talented Canadians would likely head south to fill the void.

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:16 pm

This is a hockey board, but even Dave Winfield doesn't match what Mauer did as a multiple sport athlete. Winfield was drafted as a novelty pick in a sport he wasn't playing.

Joe Mauer was good enough to play Div. I basketball. National POY in football. First overall pick in baseball. In a more modern era where it was more difficult to play multiple sports.

Winfield played college basketball on a very good Big Ten team and had an awesome professional baseball career.

Hard to argue for someone other than these guys.

hammer99 · Post by **hammer99** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:27 am

Last I heard (which was a few months ago), Baer was skating third line for the Giants and was hardly ever seeing any power play time.

imlisteningtothefnsong · Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:51 am

51 GP and counting with 22 points. If that's 3rd line production in that league, great for him!!

imlisteningtothefnsong · Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:47 am

About 600 player aged out of the CHL last year. None of them have graduated yet.

2013-14 had 305 University scholarships given out.
2014-15 has 317 University scholarships

622 full rides over two years, yes, they may not have graduated yet.... Still have 2-4 years of paid school until the cap-n-gown day.

hammer99 · Post by **hammer99** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:01 pm

imlisteningtothefnsong wrote:51 GP and counting with 22 points. If that's 3rd line production in that league, great for him!!

Sounds like stereotypical third line numbers