Wayzata

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:08 am

Yes, I like Olsen and Mikey Anderson at Hill.

Jacob is quite physical, and seems to have some good offensive transition instinct, although I would argue not as good as Sorenson

Agree your thoughts on McN and Sadek, but in fairness I have seen them some games physical and some not so physical. I suppose game plan has something to say about that.

I havent seen Blake, since I draw my own boundary at following the top 10-15 AA teams, at least until the State Tourney

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:14 am

GB wasn't trying to offend anyone but just stating the facts based on his stats and the games that I have watched. World of talent and very physical which I have no problem with. Its the lack of discipline and /or cheapness that I have a problem with. It's HS hockey! Reel this in and the sky is the limit for this player.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:18 am

GoldenBear wrote:I really like Olson for hill. Has it all: size grit and smarts. I'd like to see McNeeley and sadek get a little more meaner. Sats curious on your take that statement for these two. They both are great defencmen but the games I've seen they could be a little more physical. Agree on Acahn. Fun to watch. Great skills. Donahoigh has the gift of being able to score and like Acahn is a great skater A defenseman I also like who doesn't get a lot of credit is Myles Cunningham Blake. He's a work in process but I like his aggressiveness and puck rushing skills. He's a great athlete that gets better on the ice each time I see him Just a few thoughts WMet. GB

You hit nail on the head man. Agree with all of the above.

I think Ahcan is best HS dman in state. If he was 6' or taller I think he's being talked about for draft in rounds 1-2. He just does so many things RIGHT. Gophers missed big here, but last time I checked, they like smooth skating d men who don't play physical and are overrated, so not the right place for Jack! lol.

Personally, I think Sadek is very overrated. (Before I get this whole board jumping down my throat, let me elaborate) He skates excellent. No one will ever deny that. It really ends there though. Trust me. Ive watched him play 50+ times over the last couple years and I think its crazy there is talk of Gophers bringing him in next year. (well, not really considering how they play defense) His puck skills are average at best. His decision making is bad at best. He brings no physical play to the table, despite being at least 6'2". Instead of making the simple play he often thinks he's Paul Coffey and tries to go end to end, often times resulting in him overskating the play or just losing the puck creating odd man rushes the other way to which he often then takes a bone head penalty on. My opinion is he is starting to believe in his own hype. He needs at least 2 years of juniors to figure things out before he even thinks of playing big time college hockey. I'm not saying its not there. However, he needs someone to reign him in and teach him to play within his skillset.

Mcneely was better last year. He has great hands and obviously has the frame. Skates well and has very good patience with the puck. He also needs to play more physical. He is very good in his d zone and breaks pucks out very well regardless of how much pressure is on him. Rare I see him make mistakes in those situations. His acceleration could use work as he has SLOW feet.

Olson for HM is on par with Ahcan as far as how effective he is. like golden bear said, big, tough, smart. Love his game. Never does more than he has to. Keeps the game simple.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:23 am

WestMetro wrote:Yes, I like Olsen and Mikey Anderson at Hill.

Jacob is quite physical, and seems to have some good offensive transition instinct, although I would argue not as good as Sorenson

Agree your thoughts on McN and Sadek, but in fairness I have seen them some games physical and some not so physical. I suppose game plan has something to say about that.

I havent seen Blake, since I draw my own boundary at following the top 10-15 AA teams, at least until the State Tourney

When have you seen Sadek play physical? (Don't confuse physical with retaliation) Not railing on the kid, I know he has a ton of potential, but he is overhyped, bottom line.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:16 pm

Sats81 wrote:[Not railing on the kid...

Sats, no offense, but see your post above! If this is not "railing on the kid" please tell us how you really feel!

"Personally, I think Sadek is very overrated. (Before I get this whole board jumping down my throat, let me elaborate) He skates excellent. No one will ever deny that. It really ends there though. Trust me. Ive watched him play 50+ times over the last couple years and I think its crazy there is talk of Gophers bringing him in next year. (well, not really considering how they play defense) His puck skills are average at best. His decision making is bad at best. He brings no physical play to the table, despite being at least 6'2". Instead of making the simple play he often thinks he's Paul Coffey and tries to go end to end, often times resulting in him overskating the play or just losing the puck creating odd man rushes the other way to which he often then takes a bone head penalty on. My opinion is he is starting to believe in his own hype. He needs at least 2 years of juniors to figure things out before he even thinks of playing big time college hockey. I'm not saying its not there. However, he needs someone to reign him in and teach him to play within his skillset."

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:27 pm

As far as Sadek and McNeely, I really started watching them in person mid last season a few times, then in Elite League, and then this year. I think i was among the first to agree last year that D1 was coming for both, and that frankly I thought McNeely would end up in juniors but chose to remain.
Last time I checked they were both on the NHL Draft Watch list, first time I can ever recall two from the same MSHSL team . But anyway, I believe in those various games Ive seen that Ive seen both guys show some off and on spurts of physical presence display and offensive breakout capability. McNeely more than Sadek. But both for sure, at least at times. Maybe more in the Elite Seasons when all the scouts were watching. Even if they dont bang as much, it was obvious to me for example that the PL and DE forwards were nervous about both of them as they skated up the puck, so that counts for something in and of itself.

Neither as consistently physical as Olsen or Sorenson though. Olsen has really matured this senior year, and Sorenson was pretty good right out of the gate as a freshman but is even better this year, and Im suspecting this is the last season we will be able to watch him.

As far as Ahcan, the phrase I like to use is "he is a small Dman who plays like a big Dman" . In terms of force on the ice. Rare nowadays that someone that size can consistently stand up people 6" taller and 40 pounds bigger. Kind of like Spurgeon for the Wild, fun to watch. This is one of reasons Ive agreed with Karl keeping Bville in the top 15 all year.

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:01 pm

Conrad wrote:GB wasn't trying to offend anyone but just stating the facts based on his stats and the games that I have watched. World of talent and very physical which I have no problem with. Its the lack of discipline and /or cheapness that I have a problem with. It's HS hockey! Reel this in and the sky is the limit for this player.

Conrad, thanks for clarifying. Your "stating the facts" in one of your posts included assists to penalty minute ratio and ignored the fact he is putting the biscuit in the net at a good pace, so it seemed as if your use of stats was a pre meditated attack. That is what made me scratch my head about your post. I do agree with your comments above on him. It's a fine line between agressive, physical, gritty, and cheap and he needs to know when to be one of the above. And yes, cheap has no place in HS Hockey. GB

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:25 pm

Bear, did you see either the Tonka or Rapids game? If so, your thoughts?

nahc · Post by **nahc** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:22 am

SATS: Totally agree with your assessment of the two Lakeville defensemen. They both can skate and lead the power play but as far as physical play and tenacity in their own end and especially play in front of their net, its not there......... Both will need play at the junior level prior to playing college hockey. After watching the Gophers play this weekend, there sure don't need more skaing D but physical players that will check and play good solid D........

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:39 am

WMetro: I saw the Tonka game not the Rapids game. It sounds like both games were very similar for Wayzata--good defense no scoring. I did like that Wayzata's other goalie, Bill Arndt played two good games. (Schilling was sick I guess). In the Tonka game the only goal for Tonka was a short handed breakaway. As for what I saw in the Tonka game: Trojans hussled and battled all game; the energy level and compete for lose pucks was there. There weren't a lot of scoring chances for either team. Not a lot of whistles, penalties or goals and I was out of the arena by 9pm. I heard the Rapids game winner was a "throw the puck to the front of the net" and it went in off of Wayzata defense. Wayzata seems snake bitten and need to overcome losing the close one goal games to good teams whether in the last few minutes of regulation or OT (one goal losses to Hill, STA, LNorth, Rapids, Mhead, Elk River, HFamily). GB

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:42 pm

Wow, hadnt kept up on fact that Schilling was absent for those two.

So you figure Trojans are still in the thick of things, and have absorbed the loss of Stevens moralewise?

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:22 pm

I think young kids have played varsity a year earlier as a result and they have stepped up the best they could. Good experience for them. Hopefully they can use the experience and contribute come sections. Stevens should be back soon

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:59 am

Bear,

Trojans get Stevens back but lose on home to EP, which itself had been shutout by Edina 5 to 0 on Eagles home ice. Thoughts on this game and what it means for outlook for Section 6?

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:54 pm

wMet. I was at game it was at EP. Good evenly played game Wayzata was up 10 after two. Had some good scoring chances early in third but couldn't bury it. Ep scored a shorty and quickly followed with the game winner. As to sections? Who knows. Wasn't a bad loss for wayzata. Losing now to Ep on their ice not end of world for wayzata fans. GB

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:00 pm

Bear, not to dwell on mistakes, but I see Graham got the shorty, although Hub says even strength in error.. Did Graham pick somebodies pocket, or was it bad Trojan pass while in their PP zone , or ? Were both EP goals "no chance" for Schillling?

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:45 pm

Wmet. Shorty was a one on one schooled young Trojan defencemen and nice deke on schilling second goal pass from back of net wide open eagle with good shot. Both goals not easy stops by schilling. GB

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:47 am

I know they have a difficult schedule, and have had some key guys hurt, but what's going on? GB any insight? O'Leary lost the boys in the room?

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:20 am

Sats. I believe everyone is healthy. I didn't c Edina game but saw tonka game. Trojans played good first period and could of had lead. Gave up early goal in second and then it was 3 0 soon there after. My two cents is they r getting no offense. Studs on offense t in hibernation. 2 goals in last three games. Goal tending is in a funk. Don't have stats but save percentage in last three games may b below 80 percent. Defense is not playing well either coach still playing 7 defense and not sure why a couple of young guys r even seeing ice time. As to Oleary. I have heard grumbling that he has lost the seniors. Some not so happy seniors when coach decided to name additional captains after five or so games and he gave letters to juniors and snubbed potential seniors. Big mistake in my opinion and probably not a coincidence that team has struggled the last month and a half with tough schedule close losses and no leaders to right the ship. These thoughts r based on a few comments I have overheard the past month. That being said. Talent is there. They r healthy and the season starts next week so not sure if the young coaching staff and players can turn it around. Will see. GB

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:26 am

GoldenBear wrote:Sats. I believe everyone is healthy. I didn't c Edina game but saw tonka game. Trojans played good first period and could of had lead. Gave up early goal in second and then it was 3 0 soon there after. My two cents is they r getting no offense. Studs on offense t in hibernation. 2 goals in last three games. Goal tending is in a funk. Don't have stats but save percentage in last three games may b below 80 percent. Defense is not playing well either coach still playing 7 defense and not sure why a couple of young guys r even seeing ice time. As to Oleary. I have heard grumbling that he has lost the seniors. Some not so happy seniors when coach decided to name additional captains after five or so games and he gave letters to juniors and snubbed potential seniors. Big mistake in my opinion and probably not a coincidence that team has struggled the last month and a half with tough schedule close losses and no leaders to right the ship. These thoughts r based on a few comments I have overheard the past month. That being said. Talent is there. They r healthy and the season starts next week so not sure if the young coaching staff and players can turn it around. Will see. GB

Thanks for the insight and I agree, giving letters and naming additional captains in the middle of the season seems like a mistake. How is Zimmer playing?

GoldenBear · Post by **GoldenBear** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:41 am

Zimmer is playing with a different line each time I see them play. He was on the third line on Saturday and he may have got benched during the game too. Don't know because a lot of forwards are seeing the ice each game. I think the coach is in between his ears and he isn't overcoming the coaches games and he is not playing with much confidence. He needs to really step it up if the Trojans want to advance. My comments about Zimmer apply to additional players as well. I will say Zimmer sure is fun to watch skate. He is a great skater with suburb hands. Again the team is lacking direction in my opinion GB.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:57 am

GoldenBear wrote:Zimmer is playing with a different line each time I see them play. He was on the third line on Saturday and he may have got benched during the game too. Don't know because a lot of forwards are seeing the ice each game. I think the coach is in between his ears and he isn't overcoming the coaches games and he is not playing with much confidence. He needs to really step it up if the Trojans want to advance. My comments about Zimmer apply to additional players as well. I will say Zimmer sure is fun to watch skate. He is a great skater with suburb hands. Again the team is lacking direction in my opinion GB.

That's crazy....I wonder how Freytag would have changed the dynamics of this team....did his early departure have a lot to do with coaching in your opinion? I'll bet Zimmer is gone and never to come back after this year too....sometimes these coaches "overcoach" or "over reach" in my opinion and make things way too complicated. Esp with top players, sometimes you gotta just let em play. I know there are a million diff opinions and so many different dynamics in play here as well, but does O'Leary really think playing mind games with a top player like Zimmer is truly making his TEAM better? Doubtful. Sounds like an ego trip to me. Again, before people go nuts on me, I am JUST speculating and being an outside observer here. Have seen this so many times before and I know you need to be tough mentally and need to have the ability to press through things like this (esp if he's gonna be playing D1 hockey) but at the end of the day its only affecting his team negatively.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:21 am

Not to beat up too hard when a team is down....

Edina game was not pretty. (And I gather the Tonka game wasnt either)

Many diff combos of players and position roles were tried.

Sorenson played forward, no doubt that was a big part of why Hornets got
8 by Schilling

No goals by Sorenson, Duma, Zimmer, Dingman, Senden or anyone.

Team has looked worse since Stevens returned, hard to understand

I wont comment on the dynamics involved.

Regardless of seeding, got to look at the Trojans way down the list for Section 6 champs at this point. Agree with Karl dropping them out of top 10

With Stevens graduating, Zimmer likely headed to juniors, and Sorenson possibly(?) to Ann Arbor or elsewhere, next year will be a rebuilding year.

GOPHERFAN119 · Post by **GOPHERFAN119** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:45 am

I have seen the last 3 games - EP, Edina, and Tonka.

A couple of observations -

Different forward line combos - every game.

Defense - young, inexperienced def are playing. Should just roll with 5 only - Hank, Stevens, Moelk, Spindler and Anderson. Others have been brought up from JV and not talented enough to play against the likes of EP, Edina, and Mtka.

Goaltending - Schlling seems to be lacking confidence right now. Might go with Arndt.

Defensive coverage - plenty of uncovered players at times letting opponents gets great shots on goal. Poor coverage has led to goals in recent games.

Amazing to see a team play so well at times early to mid season to completely spiral downward in recents weeks.

Scoring - lack of scoring from top end players causing team not to win.

Confidence - the team is lacking confidence if the other team scores 1st. It seems like they have a hard time recovering.

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:28 pm

Did some digging on http://myhockeyrankings.com/index.php and based on the 2011-12 season as well as the 2012-13 season (which I believe is a majority of the same kids minus a few that either went private or left) they did remarkably well at the Bantam level. Combined those two seasons and they were 105-15-6 and outscored their opponents 700-197.

So the talent of upfront scoring is definitely there so something seems oddly wrong. Hopefully they can find it here in playoffs and make a run. Next game against BSM will be a good indicator.

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:50 pm

You are correct Pinky. When the current Juniors were 2nd yr Bantams they were arguably the best Bantam team in the State. They lost a heartbreaker in the semi's and eventually took 3rd without Zimmer who was playing Varsity at the time. The core group is still there. However, I personally feel O'Leary has disrupted the core by trying to incorporate some of the younger players who he may have lost to the privates in lieu of some of the Jrs.; thus possibly messing with the chemistry of the team. With at least 3 D1 players, this team is grossly underachieving. The talent is there and hopefully, they find it when the playoffs start. Unfortunately, some of the players are probably looking forward for the season to end.