Breakaway hockey

[lilgretzky99]

There are two main owners of Breakaway Hockey and Breakaway Hockey Academy. Both of these guys are heavily involved with Breakaway Hockey and Breakaway Academy. They are also heavily involved with the Chaska/Chanhassen Hockey Association. Of course, if you ask them, they are only volunteering to spend quality time with their own kids.

So without getting into details. (for the moment)

Is it acceptable and fair to own a private hockey business for profit and serve in their own association?

[gorilla1]

Ok I'll bite. What are the details. Are they profiting from it? Recruiting kids? What?

[lilgretzky99]

Ok I'll bite. What are the details. Are they profiting from it? Recruiting kids? What?

Gorilla. Stay tuned!

[blueline8]

Who would be hurt here? Nobody. The Academy players still play in the associations where they come from. The associations may be benefiting from the Academy as the players are getting a ton of ice time and improving. The only potential problem I see is if the Academy owners are helping pick association teams. That could be a conflict as they may have an inherit interest in having the Academy players make the highest teams.

[InigoMontoya]

It seems to me that being owners of Breakaway Hockey is a no-brainer. A couple guys are so good at teaching kids hockey that parents are willing to pay them to do so in the summer; those guys want to volunteer to do the same, for free, in your association during the winter. I'd be buying them coffee each time I saw them in the rink.

My guess is your issue lies with Breakaway Hockey Academy.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

It's only a conflict of interest if they show favoritism to their business clients and players from the private side over on the association side.
Kind of similar to the nepotism factor that parent coaches are scrutinized for.

Of course if they've been watching skill level and development in the off season, they are coming in with some preconceived and experience based ideas. But that would be true of any coach who was involved - on ice or in the stands - off season.

[Goose21]

[quote="lilgretzky99"]There are two main owners of Breakaway Hockey and Breakaway Hockey Academy. Both of these guys are heavily involved with Breakaway Hockey and Breakaway Academy. They are also heavily involved with the Chaska/Chanhassen Hockey Association. Of course, if you ask them, they are only volunteering to spend quality time with their own kids.

So without getting into details. (for the moment)

Is it acceptable and fair to own a private hockey business for profit and serve in their own association?[/quote]

It depends. What roles are they filling within the Association?

[old goalie85]

One of the guys coached my son in the Pee-wee challenge and I would love to have a hockey guy like that around our assc.

[lilgretzky99]

Ok. Just to answer some of your questions. You can be a judge if this is a "Conflict of interest"

Side note: My son has always played on top teams. We have never been cut by breakaway. I have nothing personal against breakaway or any of their employees.

Keep in mind. These guys are running a for profit business.

But many people are questioning why the Chaska/Chanhassen Hockey Association allowing these guys to benefit each and every year. By the way. Breakaway hockey is also a sponsor for the CCHA. President's son is also a breakaway kid.

Here are some examples:

There are multiple investors in Breakaway business. I am focused on two main owners.

Owner one: Serves on the Chaska/Chanhassen Hockey Development committee. As part of his role. He gets to pick who coaches, rules, evaluation drills, evaluators. This owner is also the PWAA coach. As a coach. He gets to go into the tryout room and lobby for certain players and even has coaches picks.

Owner two: He conveniently coaches the Squirt A team. Did I mention he is also the Head varsity coach at Chaska high school? Interestingly enough this school has open enrollment. Just imagine. They have been recruiting players from all over Minnesota. They can attend Breakaway Hockey Academy in Chaska. Because this school is in Chaska, they can opt to play youth hockey in the Chaska/Chanhassen hockey association. Now they're taking away spots from players who live within the boundaries. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out how convenient this will all end up. I wonder where these kids will play high school hockey? Side note: Many parents were disappointed in how many times this coach missed coaching Squirts last year because of his high school schedule. So what does the CCHA do? Lets have him coach again this year. That makes sense.

Last year the PWAA breakaway players were allowed to wear their breakaway jerseys and socks at the first five practices. They had their CC practice jerseys before their first practice. Can you imagine the advertising they receive by allowing these kids to be skating with Breakaway apparel on? Lets not forget the fancy colorful Breakaway hockey bags the players tote around all year. Great advertising!

At tryouts:
The CCHA is very strict on not allowing kids to wear private school or AAA colors at tryouts for obvious reasons. I'm sure we all agree this is a great idea. Yet the Breakaway kids can wear their socks.

In the end. Breakaway is only doing what they are allowed to do. The CCHA is allowing these guys to have major influence in the association.

Any which way you spin it. Breakaway Hockey Business is a "Conflict of Interest" to the CCHA. These guys are allowed to be close. Allowed to make decisions that impact certain families. Allowed to profit off of the association.

[imlisteningtothefnsong]

There is no need to get worked up out there in Chan, Dan Newell would never let things get out of hand! He shut Combat Hockey down and if I was Breakaway, I would be nervous!!!

[SCBlueLiner]

I know one thing, you definitely don't want qualified people involved in coaching and player development in your youth program.

Have a few hockey dads volunteer instead. I'm sure they'll get similar results.

[InigoMontoya]

Did I mention he is also the Head varsity coach at Chaska high school?

I wonder where these kids will play high school hockey?

I tried to read this a few times, but I'm still a little confused.

[lilgretzky99]

I know one thing, you definitely don't want qualified people involved in coaching and player development in your youth program.

Have a few hockey dads volunteer instead. I'm sure they'll get similar results.

SC- In regards to the CCHA. Believe me. They need all the experience they can get.

I am simply asking a question.

Is there a conflict of interest to have people that own a private hockey business have so much influence and power within the association?

Personally I think this business is benefitting off of their volunteer status within the association. That's it!

I know this is a concern with many parents in the association. D6 even implemented "Conflict of Interest" this year.

Just wanted to open it up for discussion. I hope you agree. Everyone has a right to express their opinion.

[SCBlueLiner]

Or is the association benefiting from having experienced and knowledgeable coaches around. They aren't charging the association for their time. No kid is forced to join their academy.

There are associations that would love to have those resources at their disposal.

[MWS coach]

Yes, there is a conflict of interest.

Many things in our society have a conflict of interest, just ask Eliot Spitzer!

Financial Services, Medical field, politics just to name a few....

With Conflicts of interest you have two choices, mitigate them or eliminate them.

While it may be true that BA being involved with CCHA opens opportunities that would otherwise not be available to members of CCHA, I do think it is a two way street.

"Personally I think this business is benefitting off of their volunteer status within the association. That's it!"

They very well may be, but isn't the association benefitting from their coaching which is free of charge as well? Like I said, two way street.



To the extent of an actual abuse of powers by those involved hapens, that should be dealt with. However, identifying potential conflicts and establishing "rules" around those conflicts seems to make a lot more sense to me to mitigate the COI than to eliminate it.

I would also add that while somewhat different, there are many summer programs that are "affiliated" with winter assocations. Hometown hockey is tied into Andover and Skate to Exellence is tied into Centennial. Conflict on interest, yes. Do they make it work, it seems to me that they do.

[BenDangle]

I voted Yes on conflict of interest. Simply trying to give an honest answer to an honest question.

That said, Andy and Dave are two of the state's best coaches. They are very dedicated and extremely fair. CC hockey should be thanking their lucky stars to have them and have them for free. Development and the promotion of hockey in the CC area will likely slip after their kids leave the program.

If anyone knows Dave Snuggerud and his personality, the last thing he is doing is recruiting kids to play hockey at Chaska. If kids end up going to Chaska to play hockey, it won't be because he reached out, it will be because people saw others going there to get a good education (for free), go to a smaller school, and to play for a good coach.

[blueline8]

"allowed to profit"

This tells me a lot. First of all its called the free enterprise system. Hopefully they are making a good profit. They are also taking a big risk and there are no guarantees on profits. The local associations benefit from BA being such a strong program with top instructors. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.

[lilgretzky99]

I voted Yes on conflict of interest. Simply trying to give an honest answer to an honest question.

That said, Andy and Dave are two of the state's best coaches. They are very dedicated and extremely fair. CC hockey should be thanking their lucky stars to have them and have them for free. Development and the promotion of hockey in the CC area will likely slip after their kids leave the program.

If anyone knows Dave Snuggerud and his personality, the last thing he is doing is recruiting kids to play hockey at Chaska. If kids end up going to Chaska to play hockey, it won't be because he reached out, it will be because people saw others going there to get a good education (for free), go to a smaller school, and to play for a good coach.

Agreed! Both guys you mentioned are great guys. Any which way you spin it. They are using their power to benefit their winter teams, and private business. Sure the association needs quality coaches, but its not like CC is a power house. It's a fact, in the CCHA almost all the top bantams try every which way to leave the association for greener pastures. Cannot blame them. The CCHA feeds three high schools.

Like I said. Lets see how many Chanhassen kids elect to play at Chaska? Which is another major issue. Chaska has open enrollment and Chanhassen has closed enrollment. Lets revisit this portion of the topic in 2-4 years. I will let you know where the kids elect to attend high school.

[lilgretzky99]

"allowed to profit"

This tells me a lot. First of all its called the free enterprise system. Hopefully they are making a good profit. They are also taking a big risk and there are no guarantees on profits. The local associations benefit from BA being such a strong program with top instructors. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.

Blueline8- Free enterprise system. Really? Let me ask. How would you handle this situation if this was your son?
Private school in your association recruits kids to attend school. These kids opt to play in your association and your son gets bumped to lower team in favor of an outside player. (Let's not forget, we're talking youth sports)

Then in the back of your mind. You know one of these guys serves on the Hockey Development Committee and determines: Who coaches - Who evaluates - What drills you do in tryouts - Gets coaches picks for his team - Gets to be in tryout room as team is announced. Also knowing this person has a lot of influence over a lot of people on the board, and in the association.
Like I said. The next 2-4 years will be interesting to see which direction some of these players go?
Chaska high school has always struggled in hockey with terrible records. So in 2-4 years if outside kids who attended his private school decide to open enroll at Chaska we will know for sure if there is "Conflict of Interest". Currently there are no good players knocking on the door to play at Chaska.
Stay tuned..................................

[lilgretzky99]

Yes, there is a conflict of interest.

Many things in our society have a conflict of interest, just ask Eliot Spitzer!

Financial Services, Medical field, politics just to name a few....

With Conflicts of interest you have two choices, mitigate them or eliminate them.

While it may be true that BA being involved with CCHA opens opportunities that would otherwise not be available to members of CCHA, I do think it is a two way street.

"Personally I think this business is benefitting off of their volunteer status within the association. That's it!"

They very well may be, but isn't the association benefitting from their coaching which is free of charge as well? Like I said, two way street.



To the extent of an actual abuse of powers by those involved hapens, that should be dealt with. However, identifying potential conflicts and establishing "rules" around those conflicts seems to make a lot more sense to me to mitigate the COI than to eliminate it.

I would also add that while somewhat different, there are many summer programs that are "affiliated" with winter assocations. Hometown hockey is tied into Andover and Skate to Exellence is tied into Centennial. Conflict on interest, yes. Do they make it work, it seems to me that they do.

MWS coach,

Well stated. With everything said. Our association has been hearing complaints about this issue for years. Breakaway only offered clinics, evolved into offering AAA teams, and now a private hockey school. I have no issues with this.
The main issue I have. You are allowing these individuals to make key decision within your association. They are a major sponsor within the CCHA. They help determine keys decisions within the association.

The worst thing about this. Parents are scared to say anything in fear of retaliation. Some of the BOD kids and key volunteer kids are breakaway kids. President's son is a Breakaway kid.
In the past I did voice my concerns. Nothing happened. I received the typical association response when parents bring up a concern. I was told that everyone within the association is a volunteer speech. If I wanted to make changes then I needed to volunteer. So I did just that. In fact, I took a broken process within the association and perfected it. Ok. So now I am attending board meetings and I get to help solve major issues within the association. (as I was told) So I was at the meeting where the outgoing president acknowledged there was a "Conflict of Interest" In fact he even mentioned it was long overdue. One of the BOD presented a rough draft of COI to the BOD. Like I said. Outgoing president. Well guess how the new president who's son is a breakaway player handled it? He didn't.
I will say it again. These guys a great guys. We have a private business using a non-profit to make a profit. I promise you more people would speak up. They are afraid of retaliation.
With gas, apparel, equipment and hotels. You have parents paying $3000+ a year for association hockey. I expect our elected officials to make sure everything is fair for all involved.

The biggest conflict they have input on, is who makes what team. There is a financial incentive to have breakaway kids make the top teams.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

"allowed to profit"

This tells me a lot. First of all its called the free enterprise system. Hopefully they are making a good profit. They are also taking a big risk and there are no guarantees on profits. The local associations benefit from BA being such a strong program with top instructors. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.

Then in the back of your mind. You know one of these guys serves on the Hockey Development Committee and determines: Who coaches - Who evaluates - What drills you do in tryouts - Gets coaches picks for his team - Gets to be in tryout room as team is announced. Also knowing this person has a lot of influence over a lot of people on the board, and in the association.
Like I said. The next 2-4 years will be interesting to see which direction some of these players go?

This is the paragraph that undermines your entire COI argument. Someone has to make these decisions. Hopefully your association has strong bylaws so the decisions can be made as fairly as possible.
That's important. AS FAIRLY AS POSSIBLE.
So these two guys were involved at the board/coach/volunteer level before they were on the for-profit hockey side. Maybe they were not the decision makers, maybe they had the ear of the decision makers. Maybe they played high school ball with the evaluator. Maybe they know the parents of the best players and lean on them to be more active in the program.
So now their kids (who are two of the better players) and their kids friends (who are among the better players) and the two Breakaway dads/entrepreneurs (who are invested in high level development and perhaps even winning) - this group of athletes and coaches are getting preferential treatment, favoritism, more playing time, invite hockey selections, etc. So by these standards are having more success.
Did you ever think just maybe the kids out worked yours? Put in more hours in the garage (even without the academy dollars?) Did you ever consider these coaches are good? In so many instances the best kids on the team have the same last name as the coaches.
Well I hate to break it to you but this game isn't fair. Sometimes who you know or what you can afford or where you can transfer really does matter.

But for every kid with an unlimited development budget and thousands of hockey tourney frequent flier miles, there is another kid who shoots a thousand pucks a day in the basement. Walks to school every day working on his dangle. And is in the weight room at 6am M-F.

You are doing your kid a disservice by railing against the inherently unfair institution of your association (which, I might add, IMHO is not actually unfair.) You are playing the victim to the point where every word you say and sentence you type adds to your kids sense of bias and persecution. Unless you can PROVE that these two Breakaway guys are actually doing anything their alleged COI implies they would be likely to do, you sound a little crazy. Obviously the sentiments aren't universal at C/C.

Who are you benefitting with this forum board rally cry?

[lilgretzky99]

"allowed to profit"

This tells me a lot. First of all its called the free enterprise system. Hopefully they are making a good profit. They are also taking a big risk and there are no guarantees on profits. The local associations benefit from BA being such a strong program with top instructors. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.

Then in the back of your mind. You know one of these guys serves on the Hockey Development Committee and determines: Who coaches - Who evaluates - What drills you do in tryouts - Gets coaches picks for his team - Gets to be in tryout room as team is announced. Also knowing this person has a lot of influence over a lot of people on the board, and in the association.
Like I said. The next 2-4 years will be interesting to see which direction some of these players go?

This is the paragraph that undermines your entire COI argument. Someone has to make these decisions. Hopefully your association has strong bylaws so the decisions can be made as fairly as possible.
That's important. AS FAIRLY AS POSSIBLE.
So these two guys were involved at the board/coach/volunteer level before they were on the for-profit hockey side. Maybe they were not the decision makers, maybe they had the ear of the decision makers. Maybe they played high school ball with the evaluator. Maybe they know the parents of the best players and lean on them to be more active in the program.
So now their kids (who are two of the better players) and their kids friends (who are among the better players) and the two Breakaway dads/entrepreneurs (who are invested in high level development and perhaps even winning) - this group of athletes and coaches are getting preferential treatment, favoritism, more playing time, invite hockey selections, etc. So by these standards are having more success.
Did you ever think just maybe the kids out worked yours? Put in more hours in the garage (even without the academy dollars?) Did you ever consider these coaches are good? In so many instances the best kids on the team have the same last name as the coaches.
Well I hate to break it to you but this game isn't fair. Sometimes who you know or what you can afford or where you can transfer really does matter.

But for every kid with an unlimited development budget and thousands of hockey tourney frequent flier miles, there is another kid who shoots a thousand pucks a day in the basement. Walks to school every day working on his dangle. And is in the weight room at 6am M-F.

You are doing your kid a disservice by railing against the inherently unfair institution of your association (which, I might add, IMHO is not actually unfair.) You are playing the victim to the point where every word you say and sentence you type adds to your kids sense of bias and persecution. Unless you can PROVE that these two Breakaway guys are actually doing anything their alleged COI implies they would be likely to do, you sound a little crazy. Obviously the sentiments aren't universal at C/C.

Who are you benefitting with this forum board rally cry?

Sorry your response is a little difficult to understand and follow. This is the beauty of this topic. I have no ax to grind. My son was always on top teams. Being part of this association I witnessed what it going on.
Breakaway has been for profit for years. In fact it was a business before my son started playing hockey. As I stated in this topic. Breakaway started their business just offering additional training, elevated to AAA teams in recent years and now for the past two years have offered a private hockey school. Once again. I think it is great that these guys offer a private hockey business so kids can gain more ice time to develop their skills.
What concerns me. When they get to make decisions within the association to benefit their teams and business.
Once again. No sour grapes. No ax to grind. As I stated. You would hear more complaints from people, but they are scared of retaliation. A lot of volunteers and BOD within the association are close to these guys. Understand?
This is just a topic. I am wondering if people agree with me or not?

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

I don't agree. But it's also not my own association, and I'm just one guy.

You say the other parents fear "retaliation" if they speak up. What exactly does that mean? And will your son be retaliated against? Please explain.

[MWS coach]

As posted earlier, a COI exists.

After reading more of your posts, I don't see any issues that cause me concern.

You mention team selection - Everyone know who the top end players are, I would suspect those kids are taken on the top team no matter where they play or go to school. Next rung of players is 6-10 range, usually pretty easy to identify those players as well. In the 10-20 range player ability gets very subjective. (using general number ranges). In the event a 1-5 or even 6-10 don't make top team because they are not assocated with Breakaway, that would be of large concern. 10-20 range, so many factors come into play in picking those last spots. Would I be more likely to pick a kid that played for me year around which I know very well and works hard all the time, listens and does whatever you ask of them on the ice, of course. It just makes sense. Does it create a "perception" that if I play in X program year around I may have a better chance of making top team, yes, but it is still 100% the option of that family to play for X or not. I know little about either program, but do know the names and would think they are very good coaches and would likely improve players.

Until 1-10 does not make top team because they don't play for Breakaway, or Breakaway SOLICITS players with a commitment of making a certain team I just don't see any major concerns. Perception of COI no doubt, but you have not presented evidence of anything beyond a perception of COI.

[lilgretzky99]

I don't agree. But it's also not my own association, and I'm just one guy.

You say the other parents fear "retaliation" if they speak up. What exactly does that mean? And will your son be retaliated against? Please explain.

No worries. Open discussion. I see this as a major issue and needing to be addressed. Like I said. You have a business profiting off a non-profit.

My son will not be retaliated against. Majority of the Bantams in our association chose to go elsewhere to play hockey this winter.

Last year the top two first year bantams bailed on the CCHA for one reason. No trust in the association! This year in the second year bantam group they have top 3 players bailed to play elsewhere. Our association feeds three high schools so the kids have many options. Sad truth. Bantam's should be a special time of their hockey career's. In the CCHA the kids cannot wait to bail, get out, get away or escape.

It may be time to split up the association and have:
CHA = Chaska Hockey Association.
ChanHA = Chan Hockey Association.

Long overdue!