Girls Varsity Hockey on one sheet of ice

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Wed May 14, 2014 10:15 am

Not sure of the best way to ask this but how many programs are out there that have a full youth association both boys and girls plus a boys and girls varsity all operating on one sheet of ice? If so, who are they and how many youth teams do they have?

Snap Happy · Post by **Snap Happy** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:09 pm

Rosemount does. Too many teams to count, and only growing.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:22 am

Not sure what you're looking for, but I would guess STMA is the poster child for whatever lack-of-ice issue you're having.

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:29 am

InigoMontoya wrote:Not sure what you're looking for, but I would guess STMA is the poster child for whatever lack-of-ice issue you're having.

There is a movement in Delano to establish our own girls varsity program. I could not find another association/HS program in the state that is our size or larger that has both a boys and girls varsity on one sheet of ice. In my opinion it doesn't make sense to split off from Buffalo while we only have one sheet of ice servicing our entire association. While I understand that STMA is larger than Delano, I also believe that STMA has access to Monticello ice to help supplement their girls program and I believe they rent ice in various other locations such as St. Cloud and Buffalo. In Delano, we do it all on one sheet of ice aside from our HS and 14U girls getting ice in Buffalo and our 12U girls getting ice in Mound. If we no longer co-op with Buffalo, I think we lose much if not all of our access to Buffalo ice. Our outdoor ice is unreliable at best. So unless or until some sort of viable 2nd sheet is available, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to split with Buffalo voluntarily. I am unaware of any other nearby arena that would be available for us to rent ice from. You are kind of far from St. Cloud, we are that much further. It just seems like suicide to me to do something like this without that 2nd sheet of ice.

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:32 am

Snap Happy wrote:Rosemount does. Too many teams to count, and only growing.

Actually this might be exactly what I was looking for. Rosemount is clearly larger than Delano. Are you telling me you support your entire association plus both high school teams on one sheet of ice? Do you have outdoor ice that is utilized? If so, how many sheets? Do you rent ice from other arena's? If so, how much? I was thinking for some reason your girls were part of REV? At least below high school?

MN_Bowhunter · Post by **MN_Bowhunter** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:36 pm

Regardless of the ice logistics, this is probably a mistake. Rosemount loses a lot of kids to other nearby high schools and doesn't put a competitive team on the ice. They will probably be co-oping with a section 4A team or two soon. You're planning on halving a competitive squad to make 2 teams that will struggle. If the talent decides to open enroll somewhere else you may end up with two bad high school programs.

Just my 2 cents as a parent of a kid whose HS team is decimated annually by departing talent.

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:39 am

MN_Bowhunter wrote:Regardless of the ice logistics, this is probably a mistake. Rosemount loses a lot of kids to other nearby high schools and doesn't put a competitive team on the ice. They will probably be co-oping with a section 4A team or two soon. You're planning on halving a competitive squad to make 2 teams that will struggle. If the talent decides to open enroll somewhere else you may end up with two bad high school programs.

Just my 2 cents as a parent of a kid whose HS team is decimated annually by departing talent.

I completely agree with your assessment however I do not believe that the arguments made above will hold water with the decision makers. If the numbers are there and I believe they are, the competitiveness or lack of competitiveness will not make a difference. For one Delano will be an A school and should be able to compete with most of the competition it will face in the Wright County Conference. Buffalo will be decimated particularly in the short term by this. They will not be able to compete in AA. But the problem is it wouldn't be Buffalo's choice. I think the strongest argument against is the lack of ice. This is a very real argument. So it would be most helpful if someone could fill me in on the logistics behind the Rosemount associaiton. They must buy ice from other local arenas or have a bunch of outdoor ice? I can't imagine how else they would make it work?

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:39 am

The most logical short term solution is staggering Ice time between the boys and girls high school programs. One week the boys have early morning practice the next week the girls do. Practice the varsity and JV together. system work and breakouts can be done together pp and PK can be done v against JV. Skating and skills can be done together. You can make this work until you raise the funds for another ice sheet. Keep track of your numbers because if your don't project growth it is going to hard to sell to your community.

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:52 am

zambonidriver wrote:The most logical short term solution is staggering Ice time between the boys and girls high school programs. One week the boys have early morning practice the next week the girls do. Practice the varsity and JV together. system work and breakouts can be done together pp and PK can be done v against JV. Skating and skills can be done together. You can make this work until you raise the funds for another ice sheet. Keep track of your numbers because if your don't project growth it is going to hard to sell to your community.

That is what they will be forced to do if they go down that road. But there is no reason to do it. The association is already extremely pinched for ice and adding 8 to 10 more home varsity games will only make it that much worse. Home varsity games on week nights basically wipe out an entire night of ice. My ultimate concern is that making this move will take ice from the youth side both boys and girls which will drive numbers down. Why do that when a solution already exists? Leave the girls in Buffalo until a viable 2nd sheet is in place. The association has been trying to raise the funds for many years now. They are spinning their wheels. The problem is there is zero support for said facility from either the city or the school. I did not believe there was another association/program in the state that was our size or larger that was pulling this off without additional ice from somewhere. It sounds like maybe Rosemount is pulling it off? But how are they doing it? They have to be buying ice from somewhere else don't they? I am hoping that is the answer.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:17 am

Orono

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:34 am

InigoMontoya wrote:Orono

Orono has 50% ice at the Pond in Mound in addition to their rink by the school.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:25 pm

And you don't want to buy ice at the Pond? Or Buffalo? Or Rogers? Or Plymouth?

When does ice go in at D-C? LDC will have more ice than they'll know what to do with.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:44 pm

Doesn't Northfield have all of that, plus a couple colleges?

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:00 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:And you don't want to buy ice at the Pond? Or Buffalo? Or Rogers? Or Plymouth?

When does ice go in at D-C? LDC will have more ice than they'll know what to do with.

Of course we would want to buy ice at the Pond. It is already fully utilized with at least two associations using it in Mound and Orono. And I think Minnetonka buys some ice there as well.

Buffalo? St. Michael buys ice there as you are aware. Would they have some for us after leaving them high and dry?

Rogers is already buying ice in Anoka. I don't think they are selling their own ice.

Plymouth? I believe they are maxed out as well.

LDC? If they had ice, which I don't think they do, why drive to LDC when we are only driving to Buffalo? Remember LDC has their own Boys and Girls Varsity program plus their own youth association. I would suspect Hutch might have ice for sale with two sheets but who wants to drive that far???

To my knowledge and I could be wrong any of the ice you mention if available is not available during prime hours or in the quantities that we would need. Everyone is hurting for ice, far more buyers than sellers.

These are all possible solutions if we are forced down this road but what we have is working. Why force a square peg in to a round hole? My reason for inquiry was to determine if there are any associations out there that are our size or larger that are attempting this. If not, then this is a good defense against doing it or attempting to do it. Sounds like Rosemount is a possibility although I am guessing they are buying ice up at other arenas in their area. Plus supplementing with outdoor ice. We have one outdoor sheet of ice which has been hit or miss over the last 5 to 10 years. Far more misses than hits... Certainly not reliable enough to depend on...

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:05 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:Doesn't Northfield have all of that, plus a couple colleges?

Believe or not Northfield isn't even close to us in size. They two Squirt teams, two PW and two Bantam. We had 5, 3 and 3 respectively. We have more mites than them as well not to mention a Jr. Gold. I believe they also have outdoor ice that they maintain and use. So I don't consider them comparable. Rosemount is definitely larger than us and that would be something to look in to. Wondering how they do it? They must purchase ice outside their association?

MN_Bowhunter · Post by **MN_Bowhunter** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:37 pm

Pretty sure Rosemount is buying ice from IGH and Eagan, but I don't know that for sure.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:56 pm

[/quote]But there is no reason to do it.

I would think Delano girls wanting to represent Delano HS, rather than Buffalo HS would be one reason.

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:27 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:

But there is no reason to do it.

I would think Delano girls wanting to represent Delano HS, rather than Buffalo HS would be one reason.

[/quote]

Well that is certainly the reason for the push by some. And personally I am okay with that as long as the cost isn't too great. With only one sheet of ice, to me the cost is too great. If successful, I think the end result would be less ice time for everyone. Being that we are already pinched, that could be serious trouble for overall numbers. I believe they would drop perhaps significantly. To me the group that wants to represent Delano HS is too small compared to the needs of the entire association and program. I am surprised you don't see a similar push in St. Michael from MAML?

Anyways if the person above is correct about Rosemount buying ice from Eagan and IGH, I do not believe there is another program in the state that is our size or larger attempting to do this. You can say buy ice from nearby but I don't believe it exists in sufficient quantities at decent times. Hopefully if we ever get to the point that this might be reality, someone steps up and says prove to me there is enough ice. Because I don't believe there is. And if someone can prove there is by producing ice purchase agreements and mock ice schedules that work, then we don't have a problem.

Racki2016 · Post by **Racki2016** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:23 am

Sounds like a couple of blow hard moms that think their little Jenny and Mary are good enough as u12/u14's to carry a new girls HS program.

Good Luck !

Tigerhockey2012 · Post by **Tigerhockey2012** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:05 pm

Racki2016 wrote:Sounds like a couple of blow hard moms that think their little Jenny and Mary are good enough as u12/u14's to carry a new girls HS program.

Good Luck !

Actually quite the opposite. Low end player's parents are leading this charge. These parents are afraid they aren't going to be good enough to play varsity in a combined environment. But in my mind whether they are low end or elite does not matter. The problem lies with the infrastructure. It doesn't exist to support something that big. The end result will be not enough ice time for anyone to get any better.

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:28 am

Racki2016 wrote:Sounds like a couple of blow hard moms that think their little Jenny and Mary are good enough as u12/u14's to carry a new girls HS program.

Good Luck !

If history tells you anything, Jenny and Mary are enrolling private in grade 9.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:26 am

Usually on the girls' threads most of the posts are pro girls-should-have-just-what-the-boys-have. Though a majority may be thinking, girls-should-have-whatever-they-want-as-long-as-it-doesn't-take-away-from-the-boys, they usually don't voice those opinions over here. It's refreshing to see somebody coming right out and saying it.

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