Section 7AA 2013-2014?

[TheHockeyDJ]

I said East has a great shot at the #1 seed. Geez, take a chill pill. And frankly I don't care what seed Elk River gets, Rapids will beat them for a 4TH time in a row should they meet at Amsoil Arena. In case you'd like to relive Elk Rivers last playoff game vs. Grand Rapids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keyQ1jE31V4

Not to mention East was without one of their better players in that meeting back in Jan. Elk River might be the #1 right now, but it's all opinion at this point, and no one here gets to vote at Tobies.

[sanryam]

Your bias AGAINST ER is glaring. Let me explain to you AGAIN why thus far, the Elks own #1.
1. Each team beat eachother. This cancels out head to head between the 3.
2. All teams have only one loss in the section matchups. Neutral.
3. ER easily owns right to common opponent victories, especially while considering SOS. ER beat Blaine by 2. East loses to Blaine by 3. Elks beat Cent by 1. East loses to Cent by 1. East ties MG. ER whoops MG.

East has nothing on ER at this point. Obviously that can change but you need to get it through your thick skull that ER is 1 as of now. Even East fans on here realize that.

Well, this East fan does. Can't speak for the others.

Lee

And when/if East turns the tables in seeding, I'll speak up for them (same for any other team in 7AA top seeding, although I only see it between ER and East from now on.).

[sanryam]

I said East has a great shot at the #1 seed. Geez, take a chill pill. And frankly I don't care what seed Elk River gets, Rapids will beat them for a 4TH time in a row should they meet at Amsoil Arena. In case you'd like to relive Elk Rivers last playoff game vs. Grand Rapids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keyQ1jE31V4

Not to mention East was without one of their better players in that meeting back in Jan. Elk River might be the #1 right now, but it's all opinion at this point, and no one here gets to vote at Tobies.

I was at that game and remember it well. Too bad the Elks wont be seeing Rapids at sections this year since East will thwomp you (again) in the Semis.

[karl(east)]

Your bias AGAINST ER is glaring. Let me explain to you AGAIN why thus far, the Elks own #1.
1. Each team beat eachother. This cancels out head to head between the 3.
2. All teams have only one loss in the section matchups. Neutral.
3. ER easily owns right to common opponent victories, especially while considering SOS. ER beat Blaine by 2. East loses to Blaine by 3. Elks beat Cent by 1. East loses to Cent by 1. East ties MG. ER whoops MG.

East has nothing on ER at this point. Obviously that can change but you need to get it through your thick skull that ER is 1 as of now. Even East fans on here realize that.

Well, this East fan does. Can't speak for the others.

As does this one. I'd love for East to have the top seed, but it isn't there right now, and I don't think sitting around and hoping that Elk River loses 3 games down the stretch (when they've lost three all year, all in one weekend) constitutes a "great chance." Because that's probably what it will take--and East would have to take care of business, too, which we know is no guarantee, given their lack of offense at times. They can skate with most anyone in the state, but as even DJ has noted in this bizarre effort to talk up East, they're vulnerable.

I like Tim and Pete's podcasts as much as anyone. They have good conversations and try to stir things up, and they're free to float theories and talk up players or teams that others might be missing. They're doing it in a snappy, unscripted format, so I doubt they have teams' records and stats and so on laid out in front of them. It's a fun conversation to generate interest, but it's not the gospel. On a related note, I will be very surprised if Tomberlin is a Mr. Hockey finalist. It's not hard to think of 10+ players who are more likely to be on that list.

Though I see that Andover has actually pulled ahead of Rapids in PS2. Perhaps they should be the 3-seed, and GR should be #4.

We can go on and on for days trying to spin things. (We already have.) It has yet to alter the pretty straightforward facts of the case.

[Traxler]

Your bias AGAINST ER is glaring. Let me explain to you AGAIN why thus far, the Elks own #1.
1. Each team beat eachother. This cancels out head to head between the 3.
2. All teams have only one loss in the section matchups. Neutral.
3. ER easily owns right to common opponent victories, especially while considering SOS. ER beat Blaine by 2. East loses to Blaine by 3. Elks beat Cent by 1. East loses to Cent by 1. East ties MG. ER whoops MG.

East has nothing on ER at this point. Obviously that can change but you need to get it through your thick skull that ER is 1 as of now. Even East fans on here realize that.

While I agree with you that Elk River is above East, you conveniently leave out two common opponents that go in East's favor.

Grand Rapids
Elk River lost 3-2
Duluth East won 5-0

Eden Prairie
Elk River lost 3-1
Duluth East won 3-1

As I stated in a previous post, comparing Duluth East and Elk River their records against common opponents are only slightly in Elk River's favor 5-2-0 to 4-2-1. For some reason the above two common opponent games are forgotten when some people are comparing these teams.

[sanryam]

Your bias AGAINST ER is glaring. Let me explain to you AGAIN why thus far, the Elks own #1.
1. Each team beat eachother. This cancels out head to head between the 3.
2. All teams have only one loss in the section matchups. Neutral.
3. ER easily owns right to common opponent victories, especially while considering SOS. ER beat Blaine by 2. East loses to Blaine by 3. Elks beat Cent by 1. East loses to Cent by 1. East ties MG. ER whoops MG.

East has nothing on ER at this point. Obviously that can change but you need to get it through your thick skull that ER is 1 as of now. Even East fans on here realize that.

While I agree with you that Elk River is above East, you conveniently leave out two common opponents that go in East's favor.

My bad about Eden Prairie. Yes, absolutely a BIG common opponent win for East. Don't know how I forgot them as I've included them in earlier seeding analysis. My bad.

However, I purposely chose to not include the Rapids comparison for the same reason I didn't flat out give ER credit for beating East H2H. That was strictly for my reason #1 that I wouldn't compare at all between the EAST/ER/GR H2H.

[dueling21]

I like Tim and Pete's podcasts as much as anyone. They have good conversations and try to stir things up, and they're free to float theories and talk up players or teams that others might be missing. They're doing it in a snappy, unscripted format, so I doubt they have teams' records and stats and so on laid out in front of them. It's a fun conversation to generate interest, but it's not the gospel. On a related note, I will be very surprised if Tomberlin is a Mr. Hockey finalist. It's not hard to think of 10+ players who are more likely to be on that list.

Thanks, Karl! We definitely are trying to create discussion on high school hockey and enjoy the conversations on the Forum...and it seems as if Section 7AA is one of those hot spots that is fun to talk about. That said, if I was seeding the section at the point in the season, I'd have to go:

1. Elk River
2. Duluth East
3. Grand Rapids

As would most folks, I'd imagine, if they could set aside their personal bias.

And I'll have to call Pete out on his Tomberlin pick when we get to ranking our Mr. Hockey candidates later on in February's shows!
Just kidding, he wanted to give recognition to a great player who maybe doesn't get the notice some others get and a team that he thinks could pull an upset or two. I think when we get to our final 10 candidates, it may look different.

[gitter]

I think most everyone can agree that the order is something like this (as of today):

1. ER
2. DE
3a. GR
3b. Andover

(a and b only due to Lee's PS2 ranking...though I would put GR in the #3)

However, regardless of the seed numbers, what it amounts to is this: There are going to be some dang good hockey games in this section, and if this were Vegas, I would not be betting on this section at ALL!! Its going to be a crap-shoot who ends up in St Paul in March.

[Traxler]

Your bias AGAINST ER is glaring. Let me explain to you AGAIN why thus far, the Elks own #1.
1. Each team beat eachother. This cancels out head to head between the 3.
2. All teams have only one loss in the section matchups. Neutral.
3. ER easily owns right to common opponent victories, especially while considering SOS. ER beat Blaine by 2. East loses to Blaine by 3. Elks beat Cent by 1. East loses to Cent by 1. East ties MG. ER whoops MG.

East has nothing on ER at this point. Obviously that can change but you need to get it through your thick skull that ER is 1 as of now. Even East fans on here realize that.

While I agree with you that Elk River is above East, you conveniently leave out two common opponents that go in East's favor.

My bad about Eden Prairie. Yes, absolutely a BIG common opponent win for East. Don't know how I forgot them as I've included them in earlier seeding analysis. My bad.

However, I purposely chose to not include the Rapids comparison for the same reason I didn't flat out give ER credit for beating East H2H. That was strictly for my reason #1 that I wouldn't compare at all between the EAST/ER/GR H2H.

Common opponent does not equal head to head.

[sanryam]

Right, but for the sake of arguing the ranking of the top 3, it is both which is what we are avoiding. Comparing any of the two h2h (even in the sake of common opponent) will only spin things in circles. I suppose if you want to do it for margin of victory sake ....

[Traxler]

I see your point.

I'm really looking forward to the seeding as I think it gives one team a pass to the finals. I don't see anyone other than the top 3 (Elk River, Duluth East, Grand Rapids) winning this section. I know some people are high on Andover and others on Forest Lake, but it looks like a three horse race with Grand Rapids likely the 3 seed and the top two a coin flip (currently in favor of Elk River) based on results of the rest of the season.

[elliott70]

I see your point.

I'm really looking forward to the seeding as I think it gives one team a pass to the finals. I don't see anyone other than the top 3 (Elk River, Duluth East, Grand Rapids) winning this section. I know some people are high on Andover and others on Forest Lake, but it looks like a three horse race with Grand Rapids likely the 3 seed and the top two a coin flip (currently in favor of Elk River) based on results of the rest of the season.

I think Andover could pull upsets in the semis and finals.
Forest Lake maybe able to do one but not two.
Grand Rapids could win it, but if I have to bet I would pick DEast over Elks in the final.

[grandindian]

I see your point.

I'm really looking forward to the seeding as I think it gives one team a pass to the finals. I don't see anyone other than the top 3 (Elk River, Duluth East, Grand Rapids) winning this section. I know some people are high on Andover and others on Forest Lake, but it looks like a three horse race with Grand Rapids likely the 3 seed and the top two a coin flip (currently in favor of Elk River) based on results of the rest of the season.

I think you are right on the money. The interesting thing is that there is going to be a surprise or two in the sectionals. Will it be a stunning upset or a strong run by a lower seed? Someone is going home early that isn't expecting to. All part of the fun!

[sticksave]

HMMMMMMM Last night kind of answered the Grand Rapids Question

[greenway1969]

Rapids is in jeopardy of losing the #3 seed. If they lose to Hermantown (a likely outcome) and Moorhead (possible) and Forest Lake or Andover finishes strong I can see them getting the #3 seed. How Forest Lake plays White Bear and how Andover plays Elk River may be the key game for them getting #3 seed over Rapids. In the end Rapids will probably hold on to the #3 seed and play Cloquet in the first round.

[Slammer]

Rapids is in jeopardy of losing the #3 seed. If they lose to Hermantown (a likely outcome) and Moorhead (possible) and Forest Lake or Andover finishes strong I can see them getting the #3 seed. How Forest Lake plays White Bear and how Andover plays Elk River may be the key game for them getting #3 seed over Rapids. In the end Rapids will probably hold on to the #3 seed and play Cloquet in the first round.

I could definitely see cloquet knocking out rapids in the first round.

[TheHockeyDJ]

Right now St. Michael-Albertville would be the 6 seed and Cloquet the 7. So Duluth East as the 2 would be playing Cloquet. Could definitely see Cloquet upset East, especially since East only won the first game 3-2.

[karl(east)]

Right now St. Michael-Albertville would be the 6 seed and Cloquet the 7. So Duluth East as the 2 would be playing Cloquet. Could definitely see Cloquet upset East, especially since East only won the first game 3-2.

Really? Cloquet is 30 spots ahead of STMA in PS2. STMA has a losing record and nothing resembling a quality win. Their SOS is terrible; the best team they've played (by far) is Forest Lake.

CEC may have its issues, but they've been competitive with some of the better teams they've played, not to mention the name recognition to get considerable benefit of the doubt in section seeding. Give them STMA's schedule and they'd probably have 10 wins, if not more. The game between the two will decide it anyway, but I don't see the logic there at all.

[greenway1969]

St. Michael / Albertville plays at Cloquet on February 10 and I expect Cloquet to win so they will be the #6 seed. It's wishful thinking for Rapids fans to think that Cloquet won't be the #6 seed. Anyway, I'd be more concerned about Rapids losing #3 seed then drawing Cloquet in the first round.

[Slammer]

Right now St. Michael-Albertville would be the 6 seed and Cloquet the 7. So Duluth East as the 2 would be playing Cloquet. Could definitely see Cloquet upset East, especially since East only won the first game 3-2.

I don't know where that logic comes from....... But Cloquet is not the 7th seed.

[TheHockeyDJ]

It comes from the qrf rankings on minnesota-scores.net and followthepuck.com. Those are the two sources I have showing maybe it isnt safe to assume CEC is at 6. Bottom line for GR is to not worry about seeds, but to get healthy and find some offense. STMA isnt an opponent to take lightly either.

[Thehockeyman28]

St. Michael-Albertville's and Cloquet's similar opponents are:

Cambridge/Isanti:
Cloquet (8) @Cambridge (2)
STMA (8) @Cambridge (4)
Cambridge (1) @ STMA (8)

St. Francis:
Cloquet (6) @St. Francis (5)
St. Francis (3) @STMA (8)
STMA (4) @St. Francis (3)

Forest Lake:
Forest Lake (7) @Cloquet (3)
STMA (2) @Forest Lake (5)

In the Forest Lake/STMA game Forest Lake scored three goals on a major powerplay, another powerplay goal, and an empty netter for what thats worth.

Not to say STMA should be seeded ahead of Cloquet, but their scores against similar teams are very similiar and giving STMA a slight advantage up to this point.

[old goalie85]

Why would Andover be seede higher than Forest Lake ???

[TheHockeyDJ]

old_goalie, I think right now Forest Lake is safe at #4. However, there is enough time until the section meeting that there could be a lot of movement, mostly at 1 and 2, 4/5, and 6/7. Most would agree that East could land the 1 seed if Elk River loses 2-3 games down the stretch, which most of their opponents are more than capable to beating them. Andover has been hot lately and so Forest Lake has to maintain their pace to stay at 4. 6/7 is going to come down to the Feb. 8 meeting with STMA traveling to Cloquet.

[TheHockeyDJ]

On another note, Pete Waggoner called out a bunch of you posters on 1500 ESPN on Saturday. You can podcast it on 1500espn.com on the High School Sports show. Pete had an interesting interview with the Andover head coach.