Section 7AA 2013-2014?

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:31 pm

Rapids wins 5-4 in OT at Cloquet. Avery Peterson with the gwg. Rapids finishes 7AA play with a 5-1 record. Cloquet also played East to a 3-2 loss in December. Wouldnt want to draw Cloquet in the quarterfinals

Slammer · Post by **Slammer** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:37 pm

After tonight- since ER beat Blaine, and East lost by 3 to them tonight, here is what the current top 3 would be if it ended today.

1. Elk River

2. Duluth East

3. Grand Rapids

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:42 pm

A couple big games next week with Elk River at Andover and East at Forest Lake. Forest Lake especially could throw a wrench into the current top 3 and they have the team that is very capable of beating the Hounds on their home ice.

sanryam · Post by **sanryam** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:09 pm

Double whammy by the Elks tonight as far as 7AA seeding goes. Elks beat Centennial who East lost to and East loses to Blaine who Elks beat.

Still many games to change things though as the Elks soon have a stretch of games against:
Benilde
Maple Grove
Andover
Blaine
Centennial

alcloseshaver · Post by **alcloseshaver** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:26 pm

Last year ER was losing these games, seem to be taking care of business this year, except for the debacle at Braemar.

Slammer · Post by **Slammer** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:15 am

One thing I have noticed, is that Howg (Easts starting goalie) always seems to stand on his head in high pressure situations. Being a former goalie, I completely understand that; because when you are in a high pressure situation your whole goaltending changes. Your body starts to play by itself almost, because you are on absolutle full alert. Your body will do anything it can to stop a shot. And he did that in the biggest games this year (Elk River, Grand Rapids, Denfeld, Breck, etc.)

This is why I'm not that worried about East getting to St. Paul. I think Howg can get it done if he plays like he did in other big games.

Even on the 5 on 3 today against Blaine (5 on 3 is obviously a high pressure situation) he made several highlight reel saves to keep East in the game.

It's these non-pressure games that he doesn't play well in. (Even though it should be high pressure since every game is now for the top seed).

If I was the goalie coach I would try to teach him how to always keep that high intensity level so he can always be on full alert and always be intense. If he can just learn to always be on his highest intensity level at every game, he is going to be a very good goalie.

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:56 am

alcloseshaver wrote:Last year ER was losing these games, seem to be taking care of business this year, except for the debacle at Braemar.

Elk River now controls there own destiny for the one seed.

gitter · Post by **gitter** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:02 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:Last year ER was losing these games, seem to be taking care of business this year, except for the debacle at Braemar.
Elk River now controls there own destiny for the one seed.

Agreed. We will see what they do with it. Unless ER or DE really falter down the stretch I don't see the coaches seeding them lower than 2.

The problem GR has is that everyone knows the team relies so much on Sheperd and Peterson. From top to bottom they are just not as solid as the other two teams. But because of those two players, they have a chance to steal a game from anyone on a given night.

7AA will be an exciting section tournament to watch.

green4 · Post by **green4** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:25 am

Slammer wrote:One thing I have noticed, is that Howg (Easts starting goalie) always seems to stand on his head in high pressure situations. Being a former goalie, I completely understand that; because when you are in a high pressure situation your whole goaltending changes. Your body starts to play by itself almost, because you are on absolutle full alert. Your body will do anything it can to stop a shot. And he did that in the biggest games this year (Elk River, Grand Rapids, Denfeld, Breck, etc.)

This is why I'm not that worried about East getting to St. Paul. I think Howg can get it done if he plays like he did in other big games.

Even on the 5 on 3 today against Blaine (5 on 3 is obviously a high pressure situation) he made several highlight reel saves to keep East in the game.

It's these non-pressure games that he doesn't play well in. (Even though it should be high pressure since every game is now for the top seed).

If I was the goalie coach I would try to teach him how to always keep that high intensity level so he can always be on full alert and always be intense. If he can just learn to always be on his highest intensity level at every game, he is going to be a very good goalie.

If playing in the schwan cup loser bracket championship against Breck is considered a big game then the game last night against Blaine should be too.
With that said though I don't think Howg played bad, I missed the first two goals but from what I did see he made some good saves. He was put in some tough spots with the Breakaway by Cline and the 5th goal was a 2 on 0 that would have been tough for anyone to save.
Blaine had a good powerplay too and in the middle frame they really were getting some solid looks.
The 3rd goal he did come too far out of the net and the rebound just made it a tap in.
I didn't think he was bad, not good either but defiantly not bad

alcloseshaver · Post by **alcloseshaver** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:27 am

gitter wrote:
northwoods oldtimer wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:Last year ER was losing these games, seem to be taking care of business this year, except for the debacle at Braemar.
Elk River now controls there own destiny for the one seed.
Agreed. We will see what they do with it. Unless ER or DE really falter down the stretch I don't see the coaches seeding them lower than 2.

The problem GR has is that everyone knows the team relies so much on Sheperd and Peterson. From top to bottom they are just not as solid as the other two teams. But because of those two players, they have a chance to steal a game from anyone on a given night.

7AA will be an exciting section tournament to watch.

The Rapids win over ER still looms, Hard to see GR jumping ahead of both East and ER at this point. They are going to have a lot of wins. ER would have to really slip up to be seeded behind East and where does that leave GR with the head to head win over ER which carries some weight in MHO.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:53 am

It will come down to how East and Elk River finish their section games. East is vulnerable compared to previous years. If Forest Lake beats East wouldnt it be reasonable to put FL at 3, and drop East to 4? Certainly would be a travesty to put any team with two section losses ahead of GR. No matter what you think of GR's depth, they are 12-4 with a big win of Elk River they earned. Quinn Mischke will be back around Feb 1, and that is going to be huge for Rapids to get him back, he has been out since November. Another game coming up soon is Elk River at Andover, ER beat them 7-6 the first time but Andover has been on a roll lately. That is ERs last section game and if they lose that one, they'd fall to 2 section losses.

pipersniper12 · Post by **pipersniper12** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:17 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:It will come down to how East and Elk River finish their section games. East is vulnerable compared to previous years. If Forest Lake beats East wouldnt it be reasonable to put FL at 3, and drop East to 4? Certainly would be a travesty to put any team with two section losses ahead of GR. No matter what you think of GR's depth, they are 12-4 with a big win of Elk River they earned. Quinn Mischke will be back around Feb 1, and that is going to be huge for Rapids to get him back, he has been out since November. Another game coming up soon is Elk River at Andover, ER beat them 7-6 the first time but Andover has been on a roll lately. That is ERs last section game and if they lose that one, they'd fall to 2 section losses.

Shhhh!

gitter · Post by **gitter** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:36 pm

TheHockeyDJ wrote:If Forest Lake beats East wouldnt it be reasonable to put FL at 3, and drop East to 4? Certainly would be a travesty to put any team with two section losses ahead of GR.

The HockeyDJ wrote:That is ERs last section game and if they lose that one, they'd fall to 2 section losses.

People (fans) tend to put too much weight on in-section games. I've said this numerous times before, in the 93-94 season Cloquet beat East twice during the regular season and were seeded #2 behind East. In-section games and head-to-head are very important, but they by no means negate the rest of the season. In 93-94 the section coaches obviously felt Duluth East was the better team despite their 0-2 record vs Cloquet.

Time will tell. East will not be below FL no matter what happens.

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:02 pm

gitter wrote:
TheHockeyDJ wrote:If Forest Lake beats East wouldnt it be reasonable to put FL at 3, and drop East to 4? Certainly would be a travesty to put any team with two section losses ahead of GR.

The HockeyDJ wrote:That is ERs last section game and if they lose that one, they'd fall to 2 section losses.
People (fans) tend to put too much weight on in-section games. I've said this numerous times before, in the 93-94 season Cloquet beat East twice during the regular season and were seeded #2 behind East. In-section games and head-to-head are very important, but they by no means negate the rest of the season. In 93-94 the section coaches obviously felt Duluth East was the better team despite their 0-2 record vs Cloquet.

Time will tell. East will not be below FL no matter what happens.

This. In fact, I remember the Rapids fans (rightly) rushing to downplay the importance of records within the section last season, when they lost to St. Francis and Forest Lake. Rapids got the 2-seed, which they deserved based on their overall body of work. When teams are in the same general ballpark in the rankings, then yes, it makes a lot of sense to rely on head-to-head match-ups to determine seeding; it's also useful when looking at teams out of the top 20, where things are much more of a crapshoot. But if section record is the primary factor, you'll often wind up being a slave to some pretty dense logic.

Section seeding should be based on 25 games, not 3 or 4.

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:12 pm

Does anyone know how the section seeding is determined? I've heard that it's a conference call among the coaches of the teams in the section. I assume that this is right, but it doesn't really explain how they are determined.

Do the coaches rank each team individually and then aggregate the results to determine seeding? Or is there discussion and debate among the coaches until they have a consensus of how the teams should be seeded?

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:29 pm

They meet in person at Tobys in Hinckley and vote once then each coach can speak about their team then final vote

Traxler wrote:Does anyone know how the section seeding is determined? I've heard that it's a conference call among the coaches of the teams in the section. I assume that this is right, but it doesn't really explain how they are determined.

Do the coaches rank each team individually and then aggregate the results to determine seeding? Or is there discussion and debate among the coaches until they have a consensus of how the teams should be seeded?

Immigrant Fan · Post by **Immigrant Fan** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:15 pm

I agree with Karl.

Slammer · Post by **Slammer** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:41 pm

GR fans- Rapids will almost certainly have the 3rd seed. Unless DE or ER completely fall of the map. Just thought i would clarify that now.

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:49 pm

Slammer wrote:GR fans- Rapids will almost certainly have the 3rd seed. Unless DE or ER completely fall of the map. Just thought i would clarify that now.

Just like how Duluth East will almost certainly have the 2nd seed now, right?

Slammer · Post by **Slammer** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:24 pm

Traxler wrote:
Slammer wrote:GR fans- Rapids will almost certainly have the 3rd seed. Unless DE or ER completely fall of the map. Just thought i would clarify that now.
Just like how Duluth East will almost certainly have the 2nd seed now, right?

Exactly. It's going to be very tough for them to get the one unless ER loses big.

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:14 am

I think it's fun to predict what the seeds will be. I think most of us agree on the top 3, except for those who are blinded by their allegiance.

1. Elk River
2. Duluth East
3. Grand Rapids

After that, I wonder if there's much agreement. I do think that a lot of the rest of the seeding depends on remaining games. But as I see it now:

4. Forest Lake
5. Andover
6. Cloquet
7. St. Michael-Albertville
8. St. Francis
9. Cambridge

sanryam · Post by **sanryam** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:21 am

Traxler wrote:I think it's fun to predict what the seeds will be. I think most of us agree on the top 3, except for those who are blinded by their allegiance.

1. Elk River
2. Duluth East
3. Grand Rapids

After that, I wonder if there's much agreement. I do think that a lot of the rest of the seeding depends on remaining games. But as I see it now:

4. Forest Lake
5. Andover
6. Cloquet
7. St. Michael-Albertville
8. St. Francis
9. Cambridge

I'd say you're spot on at this point. However, I do believe Andover could swap with FLake as I think Andover has a much tougher schedule and they have beaten harder opponents. However, if one were to stick by H2H seeding, the FLake 4-3 win over the Huskies automatically trumps.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:20 pm

FL has CDH tonight. This game and the WBL rematch /East game will determine where they land.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:29 pm

karl(east) wrote:
This. In fact, I remember the Rapids fans (rightly) rushing to downplay the importance of records within the section last season, when they lost to St. Francis and Forest Lake. Rapids got the 2-seed, which they deserved based on their overall body of work. When teams are in the same general ballpark in the rankings, then yes, it makes a lot of sense to rely on head-to-head match-ups to determine seeding; it's also useful when looking at teams out of the top 20, where things are much more of a crapshoot. But if section record is the primary factor, you'll often wind up being a slave to some pretty dense logic.

Section seeding should be based on 25 games, not 3 or 4.

You are right, overall body of work is first, but the top 3 are close enough right now we just have to wait on the final 3-4 weeks and see what happens. I really respect the input of Pete Waggoner on Minnesota Hockey Magazine and he said essentially it's a close call on where to put them right now. I think section results should come into play if these top 3 teams are tied or within one loss when it comes to overall record. That's where I think if East were to lose another section game and Rapids wins out, you'd have to put GR at 2, East at 3.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:38 pm

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
This. In fact, I remember the Rapids fans (rightly) rushing to downplay the importance of records within the section last season, when they lost to St. Francis and Forest Lake. Rapids got the 2-seed, which they deserved based on their overall body of work. When teams are in the same general ballpark in the rankings, then yes, it makes a lot of sense to rely on head-to-head match-ups to determine seeding; it's also useful when looking at teams out of the top 20, where things are much more of a crapshoot. But if section record is the primary factor, you'll often wind up being a slave to some pretty dense logic.

Section seeding should be based on 25 games, not 3 or 4.
You are right, overall body of work is first, but the top 3 are close enough right now we just have to wait on the final 3-4 weeks and see what happens. I really respect the input of Pete Waggoner on Minnesota Hockey Magazine and he said essentially it's a close call on where to put them right now. I think section results should come into play if these top 3 teams are tied or within one loss when it comes to overall record. That's where I think if East were to lose another section game and Rapids wins out, you'd have to put GR at 2, East at 3.

GR has no chance (barring meltdown) to be ceded above DE.
1 the game.
2 Randolph has experience at the process of ceding (or is it seeding).
3 rothstein has none.
4 ummmm.....