Short Bench

[SCBlueLiner]

Fairness is not the same as equal. Every player deserves the chance to earn ice time by the effort he puts forth in games, in practice, how he conducts himself on and off the ice, his attitude, etc. In my mind, every player getting the opportunity is what constitutes 'fair'. Just showing up, giving minimal effort, screwing around in practice and in the locker room, and keeping the ice bills paid does not guarantee equal playing time.

Athletics, while being a recreation, are also used to teach values that kids will take with them into adulthood.

As for what age, Bantams, absolutely, with an introductory starting at PeeWees.

[JSR]

Fairness is not the same as equal. Every player deserves the chance to earn ice time by the effort he puts forth in games, in practice, how he conducts himself on and off the ice, his attitude, etc. In my mind, every player getting the opportunity is what constitutes 'fair'. Just showing up, giving minimal effort, screwing around in practice and in the locker room, and keeping the ice bills paid does not guarantee equal playing time.

Athletics, while being a recreation, are also used to teach values that kids will take with them into adulthood.

As for what age, Bantams, absolutely, with an introductory starting at PeeWees.

I agree but what about the skater who is ranked somewhere between #6 and #10 on the team and the head coach only lets #1 - #5 play n the power play..... And no matter how good the kids attitude is, no matter how hard he works and no matter the circumstances coach never even give him the opportunity to play on the power play..... is that fair?

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Nice timing...
Anyone see the email from MN hockey today about this very topic?

[Whopper2]

yes.the best play the rest sit in important circumstances. this should be expected at top level teams. the kids who want to play more should practice more. The best kids play year around. Some just play durning the hockey season.So why should they have to share time with kids that dont put the time in. 90 percent are gone by the time they turn 16.why because its too much work and there is no equal playing time rule.

[warmskin]

Most of you probably recieved the MN Hockey email today with the following article on this topic

Cold, Dry Hands
12/10/2013, 11:00am CST By Hal Tearse

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... r_id=80470

Parents of youth players should not put up with short bench policies. You need to get a commitment from your coaches at the beginning of the year that they will not shorten the bench. Be proactive about this issue at the beginning of the season because once the train leaves the station it is to. late to get off.

[SCBlueLiner]

Fairness is not the same as equal. Every player deserves the chance to earn ice time by the effort he puts forth in games, in practice, how he conducts himself on and off the ice, his attitude, etc. In my mind, every player getting the opportunity is what constitutes 'fair'. Just showing up, giving minimal effort, screwing around in practice and in the locker room, and keeping the ice bills paid does not guarantee equal playing time.

Athletics, while being a recreation, are also used to teach values that kids will take with them into adulthood.

As for what age, Bantams, absolutely, with an introductory starting at PeeWees.

I agree but what about the skater who is ranked somewhere between #6 and #10 on the team and the head coach only lets #1 - #5 play n the power play..... And no matter how good the kids attitude is, no matter how hard he works and no matter the circumstances coach never even give him the opportunity to play on the power play..... is that fair?

Notice I did not mention talent in my post. I talked about hard work, effort, and doing the right things. If my players do those things they will see time on special teams. Besides, I'm smart enough to know that I need to develop players for tomorrow. Player development is fluid. #8 today could be #3 a year later. I have a kid who was probably #14 less than two years ago who is now our top defenseman and a top 5 player today. At the end of last season he was a third line winger who was a hard worker. Things can change that fast with players. They develop, they move onto other teams, or other things. Can't put all your eggs in one basket.

[SCBlueLiner]

Most of you probably recieved the MN Hockey email today with the following article on this topic

Cold, Dry Hands
12/10/2013, 11:00am CST By Hal Tearse

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... r_id=80470

Parents of youth players should not put up with short bench policies. You need to get a commitment from your coaches at the beginning of the year that they will not shorten the bench. Be proactive about this issue at the beginning of the season because once the train leaves the station it is to. late to get off.

Hardly original. I read the same article over a year ago.

[warmskin]

Evidently MN Hockey feels there continues to be a problem with short benches and some coaches need education by repetition.

[JSR]

Fairness is not the same as equal. Every player deserves the chance to earn ice time by the effort he puts forth in games, in practice, how he conducts himself on and off the ice, his attitude, etc. In my mind, every player getting the opportunity is what constitutes 'fair'. Just showing up, giving minimal effort, screwing around in practice and in the locker room, and keeping the ice bills paid does not guarantee equal playing time.

Athletics, while being a recreation, are also used to teach values that kids will take with them into adulthood.

As for what age, Bantams, absolutely, with an introductory starting at PeeWees.

I agree but what about the skater who is ranked somewhere between #6 and #10 on the team and the head coach only lets #1 - #5 play n the power play..... And no matter how good the kids attitude is, no matter how hard he works and no matter the circumstances coach never even give him the opportunity to play on the power play..... is that fair?

Notice I did not mention talent in my post. I talked about hard work, effort, and doing the right things. If my players do those things they will see time on special teams. Besides, I'm smart enough to know that I need to develop players for tomorrow. Player development is fluid. #8 today could be #3 a year later. I have a kid who was probably #14 less than two years ago who is now our top defenseman and a top 5 player today. At the end of last season he was a third line winger who was a hard worker. Things can change that fast with players. They develop, they move onto other teams, or other things. Can't put all your eggs in one basket.

You are probably one of the good coaches though, but I've had personal experience with some very bad ones.... Last year I witnessed a Pee Wee coach who played 5 players, yep just 5 players for 12 minutes of a 15 minute period and it was the first period. The other 10 players had to skate between periods to get warm again.... I'd love for Whopper2 to defend that ... I think some people on here don't get how bad the shortening of benches gets in some places, I get that occasionally you need to put your big dogs out there for a PP, or the last two minutes of a tie game with a titel on the line or whatever, I am not dense but the incident above is real and its alot more common than you realize and I'd love to see how you can possibly defend those types of egregious actions

[warmskin]

Certainly many coaches and associations overly stress winning especially for some coaches who may want to build a resume to move up the coaching ladder. Winning is certainly fun but if a team is running a short bench how do the kids who don't play much feel? It certainly does not build team comradery which for many kids lasts longer than the wins and losses.
It is disheartening to hear stories that are worst that what I have seen. Back to Bobby Orr's comment again that some youth coaches shouldn't be coaching.

[SCBlueLiner]

I agree but what about the skater who is ranked somewhere between #6 and #10 on the team and the head coach only lets #1 - #5 play n the power play..... And no matter how good the kids attitude is, no matter how hard he works and no matter the circumstances coach never even give him the opportunity to play on the power play..... is that fair?

Notice I did not mention talent in my post. I talked about hard work, effort, and doing the right things. If my players do those things they will see time on special teams. Besides, I'm smart enough to know that I need to develop players for tomorrow. Player development is fluid. #8 today could be #3 a year later. I have a kid who was probably #14 less than two years ago who is now our top defenseman and a top 5 player today. At the end of last season he was a third line winger who was a hard worker. Things can change that fast with players. They develop, they move onto other teams, or other things. Can't put all your eggs in one basket.

You are probably one of the good coaches though, but I've had personal experience with some very bad ones.... Last year I witnessed a Pee Wee coach who played 5 players, yep just 5 players for 12 minutes of a 15 minute period and it was the first period. The other 10 players had to skate between periods to get warm again.... I'd love for Whopper2 to defend that ... I think some people on here don't get how bad the shortening of benches gets in some places, I get that occasionally you need to put your big dogs out there for a PP, or the last two minutes of a tie game with a titel on the line or whatever, I am not dense but the incident above is real and its alot more common than you realize and I'd love to see how you can possibly defend those types of egregious actions

So we can agree there is a middle ground.

I guess I am not really arguing about shortening the bench, I am more arguing that playing time is earned. Of course a majority of the game I want to roll the lines but there are times that the situation calls for changing things up by putting your best players on the ice. That's not every PP or PK, I think all players need to be given the chance at special teams, but some situations call for putting out your top line. Just be reasonable about things and realize you need to coach and develop the whole team not just a special few.

I will say I wholeheartedly disagree with those parents who think the lines should just be rolled over in all situations, basically the coach becoming the doorman. How do you motivate kids to get better? How do you teach kids to not take stupid penalties? How do you correct kids who are puckhogs, or refuse to play their position? Playing time is one of those tools that can be used to correct and motivate a player.

[warmskin]

So the tough to answer question is how do you confront and stop coaches who insist on using short benches given there are exceptions and situations where a short bench arguably might be used. What happens when the team with a short bench has a third line score the winning goal or outscores the other lines? Sometimes perception and/or bias comes into coaching decisions.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

So the tough to answer question is how do you confront and stop coaches who insist on using short benches given there are exceptions and situations where a short bench arguably might be used. What happens when the team with a short bench has a third line score the winning goal or outscores the other lines? Sometimes perception and/or bias comes into coaching decisions.

Perception and bias come into EVERY coaching decision. Perception and bias come into every decision everyone makes about anything.

[Froggy Richards]

So the tough to answer question is how do you confront and stop coaches who insist on using short benches given there are exceptions and situations where a short bench arguably might be used. What happens when the team with a short bench has a third line score the winning goal or outscores the other lines? Sometimes perception and/or bias comes into coaching decisions.

The answer is you go to the person(s) in your Association who are in charge of the coaches. Volunteer to replace the current coach and coach the team. Explain to them how and why you will be a better coach. If they agree with you, great. If not, then let the coaches coach and the parents parent.

[warmskin]

We all understand the obvious about perception and bias, my point is that the third line (or even second) could be sometimes be better than the first line. As was mentioned earlier children can develop differently and that third line kid could develop to be the first liner the next year. There are several NHL players who during their youth were B team players. In many of the large programs there are so many good players how do you reasonably decide who goes on the top team(s)?
The question again is how do you confront coaches who are obviously and unnecessarily running a short bench? I saw a strong EP Bantam AA team last week that ran a short bench. Hard to believe a huge program like EP, rated 3rd in the state (LPH) would have a weak 3rd line.

[@hockeytweet]

how do you confront and stop coaches who insist on using short benches

So after 2 pages of discussions I think warmskins intent is finally revealed:

"How do I prevent the coaches from short benching li'l warmskin?"

You could see that coming. Which team does he play for? OMG PWAA or the EP BAA?

[warmskin]

Yes, short benches is a problem. When you have a problem you look for a resolution. I am not trying to hide anything and what difference does it make if this discussion is personal or for the better good of the sport or both. Not sure why these discussions end up in personal attacks. My ax to grind is with rogue coaches who are in every sport that don't follow commonly accepted coaching norms and care more about themselves then the children they coach. There is a good reason why a number of organizations like the Positive Coaching Alliance and others have been created to get coaches to realize they are coaching children and how to motivate children to continue playing sports and that the game is not about just winning and not about the coach and his/her ego.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

But it obviously IS about your ego. You should be teaching your child what he needs to get more playing time and providing the outlets/outside training he needs. Most of these kids will play for a dozen coaches in their youth careers and what his hc thinks this year has little to do with next year. Unless you and he focus on the coach's shortcomings instead of your kid's. Then you'll be singing the same song next season.

Now I remember the name... You are the same poster whose boy lost his spot to a couple of girls and lamented the downfall of boys hockey when the girls come to play.

Tough sport. Your attitude doesn't seem to be helping your kid. If he's not good enough to play PP or in a close game, and his female peers are getting evaluated higher by judges outside your association, maybe you need to get your kid to the rink more.

[SCBlueLiner]

For individual situations you should talk with your player. Ask them what they think about their role on the team. Ask them what they are doing to show the coaches they are ready for more PT if that is what the player wants.

Once you have spoken to your player and gotten their thoughts then speak with the coach. The discussion should not start out with "Why are you shorting my kid?" That is not productive. It should be more along the lines that you've spoken with "Joey". He thinks he's been working hard and doing the right things. Is there anything more he can do to have an increased role on the team? What are his deficiencies? What are his strengths?

Coaches don't have problems having reasonable discussions with parents who know what is going on. What coaches don't appreciate are parents coming at them with accusations that they should play their kid more without knowing what is going on. Also, every parent thinks their kid is great and deserves more. It's in our nature. The coach probably has a different perspective about what is going on.

If you have a coach like you described above that robotically shortens the bench then at least you have brought to their attention that you are watching, that you have spoken with your player, and that he is willing to do the extra things it takes to get on the ice more.

Finally, I will say that hockey is a long season, there are a lot of practices and games. Lots of time spent at the rink. Working with the kids can be taxing on the coaches. Having to deal with parent issues and other drama can make a coach not even want to recertify next season.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Amen.

[old goalie85]

Roll em untill mid-late Jan. Then shorten "as needed". PP/SH/EN/Last 2min. of game/period. Pee-wees on up, not squirts.

[Marty]

A short bench should not be allowed.

If teams / associations believe they cannot compete at a level without a short bench, than they should reduce team size to 13 skaters or even 10

or the association public endorses short bench strategies and tells parents and players upfront of that possibly happening.

It is fairly common practice and association "approved" to allow short benching in soccer beginning at age 13 and in baseball at age 14.

[This is nuts!]

[quote="old goalie85"]Roll em untill mid-late Jan. Then shorten "as needed". PP/SH/EN/Last 2min. of game/period. Pee-wees on up, not squirts.[/quote

agreed....

[@hockeytweet]

You should always talk to your son or daughter first. On our BAA team, the coach all but guaranteed that the player will know exactly why they were sat.

Going to the coach w/o talking to the player first is a no-no.

And Warmskin, coming into this forum talking about "rogue" coaches, and calling out 2 specific teams? And then complaining about personal attacks...

I see a lot of parent-coach tension building in your future. I would back off, take a deep breath, remember that is only youth hockey.

[JSR]

Roll em untill mid-late Jan. Then shorten "as needed". PP/SH/EN/Last 2min. of game/period. Pee-wees on up, not squirts.

I like this strategy.... I mean seriously, what are you really gaining by shorting a bench in November????