Elite League 2013

minnscout · Post by **minnscout** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:15 pm

Observer,

If Benilde did not follow the rules Kaske would have played Varsity last year before 2nd semester. What year did you get cut from the team? Let the kids play where they want. If family moves residence you can transfer its pretty clear they followed the rules. Stop trying to make a non story a story.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:01 pm

Stop trying to make a non story a story.

Stop trying to make the story a non story. There is no denying that Benilde has a slippery history of non-compliance.

394 West · Post by **394 West** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:15 pm

observer wrote:
Stop trying to make a non story a story.
Stop trying to make the story a non story. There is no denying that Benilde has a slippery history of non-compliance.

If there is no denying toss out some non compliance examples. Kaske is a good one he sat out a year before playing V.

OnFrozenPond · Post by **OnFrozenPond** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:50 pm

observer wrote:
Stop trying to make a non story a story.
Stop trying to make the story a non story. There is no denying that Benilde has a slippery history of non-compliance.

Can I suggest that you guys take this discussion to a thread more appropriate to player transfers and keep the discussion here more closely tied to the Elite League?

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:42 pm

OnFrozenPond wrote:
observer wrote:
Stop trying to make a non story a story.
Stop trying to make the story a non story. There is no denying that Benilde has a slippery history of non-compliance.
Can I suggest that you guys take this discussion to a thread more appropriate to player transfers and keep the discussion here more closely tied to the Elite League?

A very good idea. And, conveniently enough, that thread already exists right here: http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31243

preferhockey · Post by **preferhockey** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:02 pm

Marty McSorely wrote:A lot of good players south of 494 not given a chance. Hastings, Red Wing, Farmington, Rochester and Dodge County each have a nice group of kids that participated in the HP program.

They should just call it the Metro Elite league... it's a private business. Why BS people about what it really is?

Many areas of outstate not represented. If do not have a coach going to bat for the player odds are stacked against. This is a metro league run by a select group. Too bad, so sad, money talks.

Roy01 · Post by **Roy01** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:51 pm

preferhockey wrote:
Marty McSorely wrote:A lot of good players south of 494 not given a chance. Hastings, Red Wing, Farmington, Rochester and Dodge County each have a nice group of kids that participated in the HP program.

They should just call it the Metro Elite league... it's a private business. Why BS people about what it really is?
Many areas of outstate not represented. If do not have a coach going to bat for the player odds are stacked against. This is a metro league run by a select group. Too bad, so sad, money talks.

I have to agree with both of you: There are some good players in the southern region that do not receive the opportunities to participate in this league, but a lot of this is due to coaches not stepping forward and trying to advance their players. Plus, in speaking with some players, from the teams you had mentioned, they don't have interest in the league. I am sure some of that is due to the region being "under-represented," but until coaches in the region are more proactive in their player promotion I don't see it changing soon.

BP · Post by BP » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:12 am

Roy01 wrote:
preferhockey wrote:
Marty McSorely wrote:A lot of good players south of 494 not given a chance. Hastings, Red Wing, Farmington, Rochester and Dodge County each have a nice group of kids that participated in the HP program.

They should just call it the Metro Elite league... it's a private business. Why BS people about what it really is?
Many areas of outstate not represented. If do not have a coach going to bat for the player odds are stacked against. This is a metro league run by a select group. Too bad, so sad, money talks.
I have to agree with both of you: There are some good players in the southern region that do not receive the opportunities to participate in this league, but a lot of this is due to coaches not stepping forward and trying to advance their players. Plus, in speaking with some players, from the teams you had mentioned, they don't have interest in the league. I am sure some of that is due to the region being "under-represented," but until coaches in the region are more proactive in their player promotion I don't see it changing soon.

What players were missed from out-state regions that should've made it? Not being a smart a$$, just curious who they are to keep an eye on this year.

preferhockey · Post by **preferhockey** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:44 am

Many are missed every season. Do not see a player for second year out of section 6A as an example. Oh yeah player from new section 6A private school. HMM go figure.

Outstate and Class A players have no chance unless coach involved or have really good connections.

HockeyBum · Post by **HockeyBum** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:35 pm

Guy, I have watched selects, elite youth level tryouts for year. Been a part of the decision making for youth hockey A & AA and AAA tryouts. Kids tryout well but fail to play well. Kids get missed due to poor tryout execution and decision makers have an easy time with the top 20% of the players at any level. Parents or people associated with teams or geographical areas always have blinders on when it comes to who made it and who did. My son tried out and you could flip a coin as to who shoul make the team. There is politics involved always to some extend. But in the end be thankful someone is there making decisions. People always complain or make excuses to their kids and friends or forums. Get over it, move on, and look for the next opportunity. There is no conspiracy.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:49 am

HockeyBum wrote:Guy, I have watched selects, elite youth level tryouts for year. Been a part of the decision making for youth hockey A & AA and AAA tryouts. Kids tryout well but fail to play well. Kids get missed due to poor tryout execution and decision makers have an easy time with the top 20% of the players at any level. Parents or people associated with teams or geographical areas always have blinders on when it comes to who made it and who did. My son tried out and you could flip a coin as to who shoul make the team. There is politics involved always to some extend. But in the end be thankful someone is there making decisions. People always complain or make excuses to their kids and friends or forums. Get over it, move on, and look for the next opportunity. There is no conspiracy.

I love it - Move on, get over it - words to live by for the have-nots. Thanks for the great advice. So, the evaluators NEVER make a mistake? So, the organizers NEVER do someone a favor under the table? So, no coaches ever influence anyone to get they're players into the league? All nine STA players that made it last year were better than kids that didn't? How 'bout you "move on?" I don't know if conspiracy is the correct term, but there are kids that are on Elite League rosters that never played in either Elite or D, AND didn't even try out. Please don't tell the families that play by the rules and get snubbed to move on. Your arrogance is insulting, and is the biggest reason that conspiracies perpetuate.

HockeyBum · Post by **HockeyBum** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:12 am

Evaluators make mistakes all the time. People slide a favor under the table too. It's called life. You mis understood my point. There's nothing u can do about it and be ticked off, verbal and bitter will not help your kid learn life lesson. These kids that get things handed to the will never get it. Those that have to fight for it will go farther with better values in life. Hockey is a small part of life, it's not a life. My kid has been the last one cut many times. Put it all into perspective and teach him to get up and push harder. Great life lesson. Pissed off many times. I just not advertise it to the world!

Coaches and local scouts see talented players more than some evaluators and give advice. Evaluators take it into consideration to make decisions. If evaluators only looked at the players one day many more mistakes would happen. As for the private schools they should go play in the national league with schattuck or play by the same rules or minnesota needs to change the rule. No transfers after 9th grade no exceptions.

Didn't mean to insult

Roy01 · Post by **Roy01** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:23 am

Bluewhitefan wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:Guy, I have watched selects, elite youth level tryouts for year. Been a part of the decision making for youth hockey A & AA and AAA tryouts. Kids tryout well but fail to play well. Kids get missed due to poor tryout execution and decision makers have an easy time with the top 20% of the players at any level. Parents or people associated with teams or geographical areas always have blinders on when it comes to who made it and who did. My son tried out and you could flip a coin as to who shoul make the team. There is politics involved always to some extend. But in the end be thankful someone is there making decisions. People always complain or make excuses to their kids and friends or forums. Get over it, move on, and look for the next opportunity. There is no conspiracy.
I love it - Move on, get over it - words to live by for the have-nots. Thanks for the great advice. So, the evaluators NEVER make a mistake? So, the organizers NEVER do someone a favor under the table? So, no coaches ever influence anyone to get they're players into the league? All nine STA players that made it last year were better than kids that didn't? How 'bout you "move on?" I don't know if conspiracy is the correct term, but there are kids that are on Elite League rosters that never played in either Elite or D, AND didn't even try out. Please don't tell the families that play by the rules and get snubbed to move on. Your arrogance is insulting, and is the biggest reason that conspiracies perpetuate.

I am not sure there are conspiracies so much as vendettas by coaches to get their players on these teams.

I had participated in the Elite Program myself, years back, and I can honestly say there are some major issues. The best instance I can recall is this -

We were going through tryouts and the coach had stated beforehand that "this many" roster spots will be slated to seniors. At the end of the tryout he had selected all but two. He, this coach, had brought those he had already selected aside and had them pick the final two seniors for the roster. Naturally, these players selected their teammates from hometowns. I found this out years later in my friendship with this coach. If that isn't a show of how wrong this system is, I don't know what could be...

Another situation I remember was participating in a tryout (this being for Advanced) and on the final day of tryouts one of the coaches, for one of the more prominent teams in the section, showed up in the final 30 minutes of the tryout. He literally and methodically went down the line of evaluators in the stands and did the same thing with every one of them - chatted up, gave them a little nudge and pointed at his players on the ice. I don't recall the exact number of players this coach had there, but many (if not all...I don't remember) made the final roster.

I found it very odd, and I went home and had asked my parents how a coach is allowed to speak with evaluators while a roster is being finalized, but in something like association play they tell parents to watch from the lobby because the evaluators are in the bleachers. It seemed a little backhanded...

To say there is not any significant amount of politics in this program is pretty out there...

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:37 pm

I think the point is that favoritism, brown-nosing, conspiracy or whatever you want to call it, is a fact of life and rightfully pisses you off when you're on the other end of the stick. Seems to me that rather than bellyaching on this forum about it however, the better use of your time is to get involved and attempt to make the system more just.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:01 pm

AMERICAN wrote:I think the point is that favoritism, brown-nosing, conspiracy or whatever you want to call it, is a fact of life and rightfully pisses you off when you're on the other end of the stick. Seems to me that rather than bellyaching on this forum about it however, the better use of your time is to get involved and attempt to make the system more just.

Sure. I volunteer to be an evaluator. Where do I sign up?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:13 pm

I love it - Move on, get over it - words to live by for the have-nots.

Let them eat cake!

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:23 pm

Looking at the number of your posts you probably don't have a lot of spare time but Ford ain't the only car my friend- go build a Chevy. It's the AMERICAN way! Here I'll get you started-you can call it: "THE NEW AND IMPROVED SUPER STUD ELITE LEAGUE WITH NO FAVORITISM OR BROWN NOSING LEAGUE WHERE NO COACHES, EVALUATORS, OR REFEREES EVER MAKE A MISTAKE". Just think of all the parents that will sign up little Johney for this league. You'll be a hero for all of us!

Marty McSorely · Post by **Marty McSorely** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:30 pm

I think some of you have lost touch with the real issue, it's not getting cut. It's how the sell the goods..... Sell your goods in an honest fashion.

Evaluations are tough and kids get missed, we all know that! The Elite League sells itself as picking the best of MN...... well that's not true for a number of reasons. Some kids chose not to play, others aren't offered an opportunity.

It's a private BUSINESS..... I think most us just want a little truth..... 6 teams of kids at tryouts on one Sunday.... How many spots are open for those 90+ kids?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:51 pm

AMERICAN wrote:Looking at the number of your posts you probably don't have a lot of spare time but Ford ain't the only car my friend- go build a Chevy. It's the AMERICAN way! Here I'll get you started-you can call it: "THE NEW AND IMPROVED SUPER STUD ELITE LEAGUE WITH NO FAVORITISM OR BROWN NOSING LEAGUE WHERE NO COACHES, EVALUATORS, OR REFEREES EVER MAKE A MISTAKE". Just think of all the parents that will sign up little Johney for this league. You'll be a hero for all of us!

Seems to me that rather than bellyaching on this forum about it however, the better use of your time is to get involved and attempt to make the system more just.

Seems to me that you were pretty quick to jump the "get involved and attempt to make the system more just" ship.

Nuts&Bolts · Post by **Nuts&Bolts** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:40 pm

Yeah I'm not overly thankful for the "volunteers" that perpetuate the political game. I too would volunteer if such a sign-up list existed and offer an unbiased evaluation. My ego wouldn't even need to be given an "Elite" league (or Reebok) jacket being funded by tryout fees from kids that don't have a chance. BTW such coats are not made in AMERICA.

blueliner2day · Post by **blueliner2day** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:02 am

HockeyBum wrote:Evaluators make mistakes all the time. People slide a favor under the table too. It's called life. You mis understood my point. There's nothing u can do about it and be ticked off, verbal and bitter will not help your kid learn life lesson. These kids that get things handed to the will never get it. Those that have to fight for it will go farther with better values in life. Hockey is a small part of life, it's not a life. My kid has been the last one cut many times. Put it all into perspective and teach him to get up and push harder. Great life lesson. Pissed off many times. I just not advertise it to the world!

Coaches and local scouts see talented players more than some evaluators and give advice. Evaluators take it into consideration to make decisions. If evaluators only looked at the players one day many more mistakes would happen. As for the private schools they should go play in the national league with schattuck or play by the same rules or minnesota needs to change the rule. No transfers after 9th grade no exceptions.

Didn't mean to insult

If I hear "lifes lesson" to explain away unethical behavior one more time I'm going to puke. Just exactly WHAT life lesson are we to learn by stealing, cheating and blessing 9 year old kids as the "next big thing"? We finally got away from the "your kid must've got cut" crap every time someone questions the select tryout process, association tryouts etc. Then the "get involved and do something crowd" chimes in. Didn't mean to insult? What exactly did you mean then?

Slap Shot · Post by **Slap Shot** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:41 pm

blueliner2day wrote:If I hear "lifes lesson" to explain away unethical behavior one more time I'm going to puke. Just exactly WHAT life lesson are we to learn by stealing, cheating and blessing 9 year old kids as the "next big thing"?

Life as a politician?

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:57 am

blueliner2day wrote:
If I hear "life lesson" to explain away unethical behavior one more time I'm going to puke. Just exactly WHAT life lesson are we to learn by stealing, cheating and blessing 9 year old kids as the "next big thing"?

"Life sucks, wear a helmet?"

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:16 am

Tend to agree with Hockeybum on this one. Kids get missed every year, for the most part the best are there. It aint the end of the world if you get cut. A few years ago the captain at HM got cut. He is now manning the blueline for the Badgers. There is no perfect system and when you get to the bottom third of the rosters there is no doubt that there are some politics involved. I've experienced it from both sides...had a kid cut as a senior and one placed as a junior without a tryout, neither made much sense to me but there isn't really much you can do about it.

cooper26 · Post by **cooper26** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:53 am

If I hear "lifes lesson" to explain away unethical behavior one more time I'm going to puke. Just exactly WHAT life lesson are we to learn by stealing, cheating and blessing 9 year old kids as the "next big thing"? We finally got away from the "your kid must've got cut" crap every time someone questions the select tryout process, association tryouts etc. Then the "get involved and do something crowd" chimes in. Didn't mean to insult? What exactly did you mean then?[/quote]

Exactly right. If some people want to call it unfixable and let it go as something you can't do anything about, fine - go ahead. But, what is their motive in coming on this forum and trying to squelch discussion? Debate and communication is where change begins. The system sucks. It is corrupt in many instances. To consider it any sort of healthy "life lesson" is ignorance. To take a parental, know-it-all attitude about it and lay it on others is just arrogance and, usually, an attempt to protect a system that has (or they think will) worked for them.