ChiTown Shuffle

[barry_mcconnell]

The question I have is why does the shuffle fall under USA Hockey rules at all? There was no checking at the 00 level which seems ridiculous. All of these players will be checking at Bantam level in the fall and every other summer tournament this year. Common sense would ask, why not let them prepare against kids their own age? It seems a disservice in this respect and throws the results into question, at least at the 00 level. No other spring/summer tournament uses USA hockey rules why does the shuffle?

Checking was allowed for the 2000's and there was a lot of it. You can check the rules on the website to confirm.

[JSR]

We watch the same thing and reach different conclusions. Games for Mites played with blue pucks are faster paced because it travels greater distances and kids have to skate farther. I don't have a problem with blue pucks.

As for a bouncing puck, what about an NHL game? That thing bounces all over the ice and the best players generally are adept at getting control of it on their stick.

Like it or not, blue pucks are in the USA Hockey and Hockey Canada rule book. Rather than complain about it, maybe you should draft the proposal to eliminate Rule 306(b).

I'm okay either way. Since it is in the book, it's pretty hard not to enforce. You somehow suggest we ignore that rule. I know some Mite players that wish you'd also tear up the pages that address slashing, cross-checking, and hitting from behind.

What are you talking about. The blue pucks do not travel farther or faster, it's the exact opposite. Once the blue pucks were put in to play there was not one single icing called because the pucks are unable to travel the length of the ice, with the black puck there were multiple icing calls. The fact you said that makes me think you are just makign stuff up and you have never actually even seen a blue puck... Further the games are not faster, they are slower and more cluttered because no one can control that puck. As I said, the more skilled the player the harder time they had controlling that puck, and these were the top notch players in that age group, these kids can skate and stick handle at a very high level, this is not association U8 hockey. As for the "rules" I am not proposing anything, this is spring hockey, spring ockey si SUPPOSED to be self insured and not have anything to do with USA Hockey, it's why many if not most of us love spring hockey because you don't have to follow the inane B.S. that USA Hockey puts out there like you do in the winter. I'm just glad that will be the last time I have to ever see my kid have to play with that blue pathetic puck

[JSR]

The question I have is why does the shuffle fall under USA Hockey rules at all? There was no checking at the 00 level which seems ridiculous. All of these players will be checking at Bantam level in the fall and every other summer tournament this year. Common sense would ask, why not let them prepare against kids their own age? It seems a disservice in this respect and throws the results into question, at least at the 00 level. No other spring/summer tournament uses USA hockey rules why does the shuffle?

EXACTLY... agree 100% with that comment.... however the 2000 level was full check but otherwise your point is well taken and totally correct regarding spring hockey

[helightsthelamp]

I highly doubt I would ever bring a team to this event again. Competition was top notch, but everything else was very un-organized and not run very well.

No EMT on site at arena
Automatic offsides
No peg's in the nets (was told they were not used until PW by ref's per Illinois hockey rules) This makes no sense and in one game net was "accidently" knocked off at least a dozen times....
No programs
No one opening and closing penalty box doors (happy to supply parents to do this, but no one even asked) When we started putting a parent in there, during one game ref kicked the mom out of the box... absurd

Running an elite tournament as a sanctioned USA Hockey event is not the type of event to attend during the off season IMO.

[edgeless2]

I stand corrected on the checking issue at 00. So I suppose the no checking issue falls to the 01 level. Did 01's check in summer tournaments last year, with the exception of the shuffle? I am still wondering why the shuffle gives a rip about USA hockey rules?

[O-townClown]

1) What are you talking about. The blue pucks do not travel farther or faster, it's the exact opposite. Once the blue pucks were put in to play there was not one single icing called because the pucks are unable to travel the length of the ice, with the black puck there were multiple icing calls.
2) The fact you said that makes me think you are just makign stuff up and you have never actually even seen a blue puck...
3) Further the games are not faster, they are slower and more cluttered because no one can control that puck. As I said, the more skilled the player the harder time they had controlling that puck, and these were the top notch players in that age group, these kids can skate and stick handle at a very high level, this is not association U8 hockey.
4) As for the "rules" I am not proposing anything,
5) this is spring hockey, spring ockey si SUPPOSED to be self insured and not have anything to do with USA Hockey, it's why many if not most of us love spring hockey because you don't have to follow the inane B.S. that USA Hockey puts out there like you do in the winter.
6) I'm just glad that will be the last time I have to ever see my kid have to play with that blue pathetic puck

1- Skills competition 2 1/2 years ago. My crude test of shot strength was to have kids shoot from different spots and if they could carry the puck to the wall they advanced to the next round. Out of 40 kids, two flew a 4-oz. blue puck from the redline to the glass...100' in the air. No way they do that with a 6-oz. black puck. This was in October, the start of a Mite season. National calendar...not older Minnesota Mites. Also, watching the games over years and seeing the cluster around black pucks always meant a slow game.

2- Yes, I'm just making stuff up because watching hundreds of Mite games wasn't enough of a sample. Not only have I seen a blue puck, I also know how to get an affiliate to ensure compliant use of them. (Truth is I really don't care, but when parents complain about inconsistent enforcement there is only one solution I could come up with.)

3- So the skilled players can't control the puck. Right. Then they might not be skilled.

4- If nobody proposes a rule change there will be no change. Leaving you to complain. This isn't a recommendation. It is a playing rule.

5- I was unaware Spring hockey is supposed to be self-insured. In fact, I'm going to be a good number of tournament operators are too.

6- Hallelujah. Now that Robbie's a Panther we can start taking hockey seriously.

[Section 8 guy]

I've also watched hundreds of Mite games played with a blue puck and can honestly say I really haven't witnessed the things you are describing.

We talk about Mites having fun in the cross ice discussion right? Isn't being able to shoot a puck with a little zip on it more fun? Mites generally can't do that with a 6 oz puck.

[JSR]

1) What are you talking about. The blue pucks do not travel farther or faster, it's the exact opposite. Once the blue pucks were put in to play there was not one single icing called because the pucks are unable to travel the length of the ice, with the black puck there were multiple icing calls.
2) The fact you said that makes me think you are just makign stuff up and you have never actually even seen a blue puck...
3) Further the games are not faster, they are slower and more cluttered because no one can control that puck. As I said, the more skilled the player the harder time they had controlling that puck, and these were the top notch players in that age group, these kids can skate and stick handle at a very high level, this is not association U8 hockey.
4) As for the "rules" I am not proposing anything,
5) this is spring hockey, spring ockey si SUPPOSED to be self insured and not have anything to do with USA Hockey, it's why many if not most of us love spring hockey because you don't have to follow the inane B.S. that USA Hockey puts out there like you do in the winter.
6) I'm just glad that will be the last time I have to ever see my kid have to play with that blue pathetic puck

1- Skills competition 2 1/2 years ago. My crude test of shot strength was to have kids shoot from different spots and if they could carry the puck to the wall they advanced to the next round. Out of 40 kids, two flew a 4-oz. blue puck from the redline to the glass...100' in the air. No way they do that with a 6-oz. black puck. This was in October, the start of a Mite season. National calendar...not older Minnesota Mites. Also, watching the games over years and seeing the cluster around black pucks always meant a slow game.

2- Yes, I'm just making stuff up because watching hundreds of Mite games wasn't enough of a sample. Not only have I seen a blue puck, I also know how to get an affiliate to ensure compliant use of them. (Truth is I really don't care, but when parents complain about inconsistent enforcement there is only one solution I could come up with.)

3- So the skilled players can't control the puck. Right. Then they might not be skilled.

4- If nobody proposes a rule change there will be no change. Leaving you to complain. This isn't a recommendation. It is a playing rule.

5- I was unaware Spring hockey is supposed to be self-insured. In fact, I'm going to be a good number of tournament operators are too.

6- Hallelujah. Now that Robbie's a Panther we can start taking hockey seriously.

1) getting a puck lifted in the air is not the same thing as how far it travels because once it hits the ground a black puck keeps moving but a blue puck stops dead

2) Sounds like you need to view some up here instead of down there....

3) Try controlling a super ball then try controlling a street hockey ball. Then discuss "skill". I know skill levels and the only thing a blue puck does is it brings everyone down to the lowest common demoninator. Blue pucks are like cross ice, great for a large majority but clearly holds back the most talented kids

4) I will propose a rule change. No more blue pucks....

5). Actually the overwhleming majority of Spring AAA hockey tournaments are self insured and have NOTHING to do with USA Hockey. Go to a Spring Hockey tourney website and you will see the follwing disclosure on a majority of them: "Fully-insured event (not a USA Hockey event)" ... here a few to get you started but there are loads more:
-Minnesota Meltdown
-Stars & Stripes
-Easton Cup
-Shock Doctor Shootout
-Independent Classic AAA Tournament
-Easton Cup AAA Tournament
-AAA Opener
Why do you think these tourneys can get away with "tag up offsides at all levels" or "checking beginning at the 2002 level" etc... etc... because they are fully insured and NOT part of USA Hockey.....

6) No idea what that even meant. Few things get me worked up regarding youth sports, I've been through it all with my older boy so I know what's what but this blue puck is pathetic and anyone who tries to defend it clearly doesn't understand the game IMHO

[O-townClown]

2) Sounds like you need to view some up here instead of down there....

4) I will propose a rule change. No more blue pucks....

5). Actually the overwhleming majority of Spring AAA hockey tournaments are self insured and have NOTHING to do with USA Hockey. Go to a Spring Hockey tourney website and you will see the follwing disclosure on a majority of them: "Fully-insured event (not a USA Hockey event)" ... here a few to get you started but there are loads more:
-Minnesota Meltdown
-Stars & Stripes
-Easton Cup
-Shock Doctor Shootout
-Independent Classic AAA Tournament
-Easton Cup AAA Tournament
-AAA Opener
Why do you think these tourneys can get away with "tag up offsides at all levels" or "checking beginning at the 2002 level" etc... etc... because they are fully insured and NOT part of USA Hockey.....

2- Why? Our all-Florida kids just went to Chicago and beat the teams from supposed hockey country. Runners-up, the final was a narrow loss to a Spring/Summer program that dominated the Shuffle. Plus the top kids on a few of the teams at Bantam Nationals were Florida kids. When our kids move away they all make top teams wherever they go. MN, WI, CO, MI, TX.

4- Great. That's what you should do. If it has enough support it will pass. If not, you'll know you've done your part and can stop complaining.

5- Some Spring/Summer events are not sanctioned, some are. Wasn't aware they aren't supposed to be. You should notify the people running these tournaments:

http://www.usahockey.com/players/invita ... ments.aspx

[JSR]

2) Sounds like you need to view some up here instead of down there....

4) I will propose a rule change. No more blue pucks....

5). Actually the overwhleming majority of Spring AAA hockey tournaments are self insured and have NOTHING to do with USA Hockey. Go to a Spring Hockey tourney website and you will see the follwing disclosure on a majority of them: "Fully-insured event (not a USA Hockey event)" ... here a few to get you started but there are loads more:
-Minnesota Meltdown
-Stars & Stripes
-Easton Cup
-Shock Doctor Shootout
-Independent Classic AAA Tournament
-Easton Cup AAA Tournament
-AAA Opener
Why do you think these tourneys can get away with "tag up offsides at all levels" or "checking beginning at the 2002 level" etc... etc... because they are fully insured and NOT part of USA Hockey.....

2- Why? Our all-Florida kids just went to Chicago and beat the teams from supposed hockey country. Runners-up, the final was a narrow loss to a Spring/Summer program that dominated the Shuffle. Plus the top kids on a few of the teams at Bantam Nationals were Florida kids. When our kids move away they all make top teams wherever they go. MN, WI, CO, MI, TX.

4- Great. That's what you should do. If it has enough support it will pass. If not, you'll know you've done your part and can stop complaining.

5- Some Spring/Summer events are not sanctioned, some are. Wasn't aware they aren't supposed to be. You should notify the people running these tournaments:

http://www.usahockey.com/players/invita ... ments.aspx

2) Really???? the 2004 level is your example.... anyway.....

4) No I can still complain and will if I have to see that useless blue puck I will always complain about it, will never stop

5) I did notify the director of the Shuffle and will notify any spring tourney we attend where useless rules that were not advertised are levied on the players. Generally we avoid spring tourneys that are not fully insured because we know USA Hockey does some things we do not agree with and spring/summer is a way to get away from that so it's irritating when it sneaks up on you and no one knows about it til after the fact. An event liek the Shuffle should be fully insured and not part of USA Hockey. Not saying that there shouldn't be any tourneys liek that but the big ones definitely should not be, fact is they will lose high level teams over time. For instance if they go with the blue puck again next year they will not get any high level teams at the 2006 level, I guarantee it

[O-townClown]

JSR, 2004 kids are Mites. What age were you suggesting I pay attention to?

It is news to me that you are the summer hockey expert and know more than everyone else about how events should be run. We have a saying that the marketplace will decide how these Spring/Summer tournaments look and it certainly has played out that way.

[knights58]

Regarding these "all Florida" players...Considering 204 Minnesota kids are playing D1 college hockey compared to 3 from the hockey power known as Florida (stats from inside college hockey), I don't think the "supposed hockey powers" have to worry about getting passed anytime soon.

[JSR]

JSR, 2004 kids are Mites. What age were you suggesting I pay attention to?

It is news to me that you are the summer hockey expert and know more than everyone else about how events should be run. We have a saying that the marketplace will decide how these Spring/Summer tournaments look and it certainly has played out that way.

Well considering our debate is about blue pucks and the 2004's used black pucks I guess you should be paying attention to the 2005's that this is about

I can agree the marketplace will decide (although I am wondering who "we" is....) and it is already deciding on the U8 level (aka next years 2006 level) going into next year that if blue pucks are used elite teams/players will not come to ChiTown.....

[MNM JMH]

I hate the Blue Puck.

Just had to say that...

[GoldenBear]

"I HATE LOUD NOISES" Brick, Anchorman

[JSR]

"I HATE LOUD NOISES" Brick, Anchorman

Oh, I'm sorry Champ, I think I ate your chocolate squirrel

[O-townClown]

Regarding these "all Florida" players...Considering 204 Minnesota kids are playing D1 college hockey compared to 3 from the hockey power known as Florida (stats from inside college hockey), I don't think the "supposed hockey powers" have to worry about getting passed anytime soon.

Knights, Minnesota is doing fine. The suggestion that I haven't seen enough good players play Mite games when our Mites just finished runners-up in a national tournament of some repute? Let's just say that doesn't have legs.

There were 18 Floridians playing NCAA Division I hockey this season and 17 last year. Up from just 5 five years prior. The number you cite is nowhere close to accurate.

Gostisbehere from Union, Bradley from CC, and Ruffolo from the National Champs. There's three right there. Go through all the rosters, like Greybeard has, and you'll find 18. His annual list is the most accurate. I even shared it with some USA Hockey folks because the numbers they used were not even close.

Thanks again for Greybeard's annual efforts to provide such an exhaustive and accurate report on where college hockey players came from.

[JSR]

Regarding these "all Florida" players...Considering 204 Minnesota kids are playing D1 college hockey compared to 3 from the hockey power known as Florida (stats from inside college hockey), I don't think the "supposed hockey powers" have to worry about getting passed anytime soon.

Knights, Minnesota is doing fine. The suggestion that I haven't seen enough good players play Mite games when our Mites just finished runners-up in a national tournament of some repute? Let's just say that doesn't have legs.

There were 18 Floridians playing NCAA Division I hockey this season and 17 last year. Up from just 5 five years prior. The number you cite is nowhere close to accurate.

Gostisbehere from Union, Bradley from CC, and Ruffolo from the National Champs. There's three right there. Go through all the rosters, like Greybeard has, and you'll find 18. His annual list is the most accurate. I even shared it with some USA Hockey folks because the numbers they used were not even close.

Thanks again for Greybeard's annual efforts to provide such an exhaustive and accurate report on where college hockey players came from.

So 15 skaters that came from all over Florida to form one decent team at one tournament at the Squirt minor level (yes 2004's are now considered squirts not Mites) is your "evidence" that you've seen tons of great hockey at tee mite level playing exclusively all season with blue pucks..... sure....

[O-townClown]

So 15 skaters that came from all over Florida to form one decent team at one tournament at the Squirt minor level (yes 2004's are now considered squirts not Mites) is your "evidence" that you've seen tons of great hockey at tee mite level playing exclusively all season with blue pucks..... sure....

The kids, and those that have come before them, do play in our league....

Interesting that one of our state's better players is moving to Wisconsin and the reaction from a lot of people has been to be concerned about his hockey options. For a big state in the Rust Belt there are a lot of parts without much hockey.

[Trash Hauler]

Have to say I have a hard time hearing the word "Elite" used with Mite age players. To quote a mentor of mine "All mites suck, "elite" mites just suck less". Thinking and saying these mites are "elite" hockey players is in large part what causes many of the issues that exist in youth sports. One 8 year old currently being a better player than another does not make them "elite".

Saying they won't come back to a tournament because they use a blue puck or because of the offside rules? I think that's adult driven and the kids could care less if not unduly influenced by those that want to use the words "elite" when speaking of their 8 year old children. In my opinion, describing an athlete as "elite" should be reserved for those at or nearing the pinnacle of their sport, not their age group.

[O-townClown]

Trash, are you related to Eric?

Great post. I sold a tennis ball game at a crossice event as a "slap shots allowed" game in the center 1/3rd of the rink. It took ten seconds before one Mite said, "how come we don't get to play with a tennis ball!"

Kids have their own opinions for a while, but it doesn't take long for them to agree with their parents when they are under 10.

[Puckstopper81]

Easy O-town. Originally being from Florida, I do agree there are some very talented kids from the Sunshine State. The 97 and 98 birth year has been particularly strong, but to mention Florida talent in the same sentence as Minnesota or Illinois talent.....ahh, No.

Another thing that shouldn't be used in the same sentence is "Elite" and Mite and Squirts. These parents really need to take a deep breath and relax. Take it from a parent who's kid has played everywhere from Quebec to Winnipeg in the summer, it doesn't mean a damn thing until they grow some fuzz on their peaches. Not one damn bit. Save your money and go to Bahamas....they don't have blue pucks there!

[MNM JMH]

Easy O-town. Originally being from Florida, I do agree there are some very talented kids from the Sunshine State. The 97 and 98 birth year has been particularly strong, but to mention Florida talent in the same sentence as Minnesota or Illinois talent.....ahh, No.

Another thing that shouldn't be used in the same sentence is "Elite" and Mite and Squirts. These parents really need to take a deep breath and relax. Take it from a parent who's kid has played everywhere from Quebec to Winnipeg in the summer, it doesn't mean a damn thing until they grow some fuzz on their peaches. Not one damn bit. Save your money and go to Bahamas....they don't have blue pucks there!

So if I understand you correctly, you would have done it differently? Would you not have had your son play AAA/Summer hockey or still play over the summer just not drive to Quebec/Winnipeg to play at the Squirt/Mite age?

[Puckstopper81]

Yea....maybe I would have done it a little differently. First, we didn't live in Minny so we didn't have the option of the Spring/summer AAA hockey you have here. We flew every and it was some very expensive summers. Did we have fun in Montreal, Toronto, Quebec City, and Boston? Absolutely! However, don't do it for the hopes of your kid going to the NHL. The older the kids get, the tougher it gets, but I don't have to tell you that. Having a superstar Mite, Squirt, and even PW doesn't mean a damn thing. I guess it gives some parents bragging rights that their little Johnny is a great 8 year old hockey player. There are literally tens of thousands of great 8 year old hockey players. I know it's hard to swallow, but it's the truth. If I had to do it all over again, I would do less hockey crap at that age in the summer and more sitting by the pool hanging out with my whole family.

[JSR]

Easy O-town. Originally being from Florida, I do agree there are some very talented kids from the Sunshine State. The 97 and 98 birth year has been particularly strong, but to mention Florida talent in the same sentence as Minnesota or Illinois talent.....ahh, No.

Another thing that shouldn't be used in the same sentence is "Elite" and Mite and Squirts. These parents really need to take a deep breath and relax. Take it from a parent who's kid has played everywhere from Quebec to Winnipeg in the summer, it doesn't mean a damn thing until they grow some fuzz on their peaches. Not one damn bit. Save your money and go to Bahamas....they don't have blue pucks there!

That is unfortunate you had such an aweful time. I have an older son as well and have "done it all" as well and I would not change a thing, no wait actually I would have allowed him to have a few more experiences at a younger age than I let him, hence allowing my youngest to now experience the great things that come with this sport and traveling for it. I do not have any delusions about my kid playing beyond high school but why is it so hard for some people to comprehend that playing hockey and traveling to the places that aloow for playing some great hockey IS THE FUN for some people. There is a reason there are 34 flavors of ice cream, not everyone enjoys the same thing. I do take my kids to the Bahamas and Disney World and fishing trips and all those other things and guess what, when I ask the boys what the most fun they ever had was, they both mention certain hockey tournaments.... I just wish the nay sayers would stop thinking everyone is painted with the same brush.... as for the use of the term "elite" with mites or squirts, get over it. it's a term to use to describe the established and credible clubs that allow for a tournament to become a success or not a success it, those who have a problem with the term are the ones with the issues not the other way around