District 8 Penalizes Team and Coach

[Defensive Zone]

Over the weekend, I was talking to a few parents from Lakeville. They proceeded to tell me that one of their Bantam B1 teams are being penalized $1500, plus the head coach is receiving a 3 game suspension for playing in a Bantam A tournament (which they took 3rd place in) during the season. My understanding is that MN Hockey and District 8 were informed of this infraction by a Bantam A team that was in the tournament. The director of District 8 sent down a penalty a few weeks ago of $1500 ($100 per player) which the parents have to pay and gave the head coach a 3 game suspension starting next year. I have never heard of anything like this before, has anyone else?

[old goalie85]

Yes D2 fined FL 2000 $ before for going over game limit. Then they had the $ stolen. 2nd year bantam parents should refuse to pay.

[SnowedIn]

No have not heard.
Interested to hear more details. How many teams in the tournament? Where they all A teams? Is there an approval process through MH in place? Did they follow it? Were they told they can't and did?

I think it's silly to require a separation of these teams if a team warrants a bump up like may be the case here and sure that a tournament director, whose reputation is on the line, can figure that out for themselves. All said looks like the team was right for the tournament.

[PuckRanger]

Yes, that is the current penalty for playing out of your division. I don't remember if that comes from Minnesota Hockey or from USA Hockey, but that is correct and applies to all levels except A/AA and B1/B2 which are permitted to mix. AA/A teams are strictly prohibited from playing B1/B2 teams and I do not believe there is any exceptions to this for any reason.

[YouthHockeyHub]

As long as the subject is fresh, here's one I heard:

two squirt teams from separate districts agreed to play a game. They got refs.

Refs didn't show up.

Team played the game with coaches reffings and they used the time clock. Pretty sure they didn't use a score sheet.

Because all 3 have to be in sync: time clock, refs, and scoresheet for it to be official...the districts ruled this an illegal game and fined each association $2,500 or a 20 hour volunteer penalty at their upcoming District squirt tournament.

[O-townClown]

Because all 3 have to be in sync: time clock, refs, and scoresheet for it to be official...the districts ruled this an illegal game and fined each association $2,500 or a 20 hour volunteer penalty at their upcoming District squirt tournament.

Heartwarming story!

[elliott70]

As long as the subject is fresh, here's one I heard:

two squirt teams from separate districts agreed to play a game. They got refs.

Refs didn't show up.

Team played the game with coaches reffings and they used the time clock. Pretty sure they didn't use a score sheet.

Because all 3 have to be in sync: time clock, refs, and scoresheet for it to be official...the districts ruled this an illegal game and fined each association $2,500 or a 20 hour volunteer penalty at their upcoming District squirt tournament.

Didn't happen in district 16.

[buttend]

Over the weekend, I was talking to a few parents from Lakeville. They proceeded to tell me that one of their Bantam B1 teams are being penalized $1500, plus the head coach is receiving a 3 game suspension for playing in a Bantam A tournament (which they took 3rd place in) during the season.

Isn't "A" the New B1? I do not believe Lake ville fielded "A" teams only AA. So in reality their B1 teams are equal to others "A". Hockey adults making those silly rules again..

[old goalie85]

"The new B1".... I always loved that one !!!!

[supertacks]

Unbelievable! MN Hockey has F'd up youth hockey in this state so bad, and I am so glad I no longer have any kids playing! MN Hockey seems to feel that unless they are continually changing things, they are not doing their job. Sometimes just providing support to existing framework is the best approach (i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it)!

[elliott70]

Unbelievable! MN Hockey has F'd up youth hockey in this state so bad, and I am so glad I no longer have any kids playing! MN Hockey seems to feel that unless they are continually changing things, they are not doing their job. Sometimes just providing support to existing framework is the best approach (i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it)!

This has been the rule since inception of registering tournaments. At least 20 years.

[barry_mcconnell]

As long as the subject is fresh, here's one I heard:

two squirt teams from separate districts agreed to play a game. They got refs.

Refs didn't show up.

Team played the game with coaches reffings and they used the time clock. Pretty sure they didn't use a score sheet.

Because all 3 have to be in sync: time clock, refs, and scoresheet for it to be official...the districts ruled this an illegal game and fined each association $2,500 or a 20 hour volunteer penalty at their upcoming District squirt tournament.

Umm what? They're getting fined because they had a scrimmage? Each district is fining their team $2,500? This doesn't make sense. Details please.

[QuackerTracker]

Seems to me they broke clearly written rules. I hear a lot of boo hoo BS. Is it fair probably not but stop blaiming everyone else. It's just like parents who blame teachers and admins when their kids get in trouble. You broke the rules, pay the price.

[inthestands]

As long as the subject is fresh, here's one I heard:

two squirt teams from separate districts agreed to play a game. They got refs.

Refs didn't show up.

Team played the game with coaches reffings and they used the time clock. Pretty sure they didn't use a score sheet.

Because all 3 have to be in sync: time clock, refs, and scoresheet for it to be official...the districts ruled this an illegal game and fined each association $2,500 or a 20 hour volunteer penalty at their upcoming District squirt tournament.

Umm what? They're getting fined because they had a scrimmage? Each district is fining their team $2,500? This doesn't make sense. Details please.

Can't use a time clock, or keep score. That's been a clear rule forever.

[Ready2GoYet]

Sounds like the penalties for rule infractions are actually being enforced now. Didn't seem to be the case in years past when my kids came up through, and you always saw teams playing too many games, non-certified coaches on the bench, having 20 "scrimmages" etc. There were penalities in place then that seemed to be rarely used, thereby invoking criticism that the district or MH didn't penalize those teams/organizations that were not adhering to the rules. Their lack of enforcement in the past is probably part of the uproar over now starting to finally lay down the law. Common with any type of rule enforcement.
Have to agree, the "illegal" squirt game was overboard. Doesn't sound like it was premeditated. What were the refs that didn't show up get penalized? Sounds like two teams making the best of a bad situation IN THE INTEREST OF THE KIDS.

[barry_mcconnell]

You know, for kids.

[BadgerBob82]

On the B1 tournament. I would ask if Lakeville misrepresented their team as being an A team? If not, did the tournament willingly accept a B team for an A tournament? Can District Director approve this like they can for specific games?

Would seem to me if the tournament host association admitted a B team, they should be fined and not allowed to host any tournaments for a period of time.

[O-townClown]

Unbelievable! MN Hockey has F'd up youth hockey in this state so bad, and I am so glad I no longer have any kids playing! MN Hockey seems to feel that unless they are continually changing things, they are not doing their job. Sometimes just providing support to existing framework is the best approach (i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it)!

Tacks, I wonder if they are continually changing things in response to the continuous complaining they hear.

[dlow]

This situation highlights a few problems:

-division of levels is unclear, what teams should declare A, which should declare b1,b2 etc. No guidance from Mn hockey.

-inconsistency of districts, d8, d6, d10 v non metro districts for example. Each one is different, so non district games are really a crap shoot

-forced declarations of levels too early, ie, why can't we wait until November, get a few scrimmages in and then declare the correct level

The fines are very excessive for both situations. Can someone with more knowledge tell us what is the big problem is, besides that it written in some rule book, with letting a b1 team play an A team, or at least why we have that rule. Is it an insurance issue?

Btw, I have seen many scrimmages like the squirt one described, including a few this year, not clear what the problem is there either.

[elliott70]

On the B1 tournament. I would ask if Lakeville misrepresented their team as being an A team? If not, did the tournament willingly accept a B team for an A tournament? Can District Director approve this like they can for specific games?

Would seem to me if the tournament host association admitted a B team, they should be fined and not allowed to host any tournaments for a period of time.

Director cannot give permission, unless it is 100% within their district.
No exceptions.
I am asked frequently.

[NE14HKY]

On the B1 tournament. I would ask if Lakeville misrepresented their team as being an A team? If not, did the tournament willingly accept a B team for an A tournament? Can District Director approve this like they can for specific games?

Would seem to me if the tournament host association admitted a B team, they should be fined and not allowed to host any tournaments for a period of time.

The tournament was not in D8. Each district is to
handle their own teams. This coach has been coaching
for a number of years...

[the_juiceman]

Unbelievable! MN Hockey has F'd up youth hockey in this state so bad, and I am so glad I no longer have any kids playing! MN Hockey seems to feel that unless they are continually changing things, they are not doing their job. Sometimes just providing support to existing framework is the best approach (i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it)!

what does this have to do with Mn hockey? and their so called failings?

[the_juiceman]

This situation highlights a few problems:

-division of levels is unclear, what teams should declare A, which should declare b1,b2 etc. No guidance from Mn hockey.

-inconsistency of districts, d8, d6, d10 v non metro districts for example. Each one is different, so non district games are really a crap shoot

-forced declarations of levels too early, ie, why can't we wait until November, get a few scrimmages in and then declare the correct level

The fines are very excessive for both situations. Can someone with more knowledge tell us what is the big problem is, besides that it written in some rule book, with letting a b1 team play an A team, or at least why we have that rule. Is it an insurance issue?

Btw, I have seen many scrimmages like the squirt one described, including a few this year, not clear what the problem is there either.

they obviously knew what level they were, so to play in a different level is not acceptable. The guidence should come from the district, not MN hockey. Name another sport that you have some practice games then declare? baseball, soccer, basketball...you form your team and declare what level. Live with the decision and abide by the rules. You don't have to like it, but until it changes, it is what it is. It's all there in black and white for all to read.

[dlow]

This situation highlights a few problems:

-division of levels is unclear, what teams should declare A, which should declare b1,b2 etc. No guidance from Mn hockey.

-inconsistency of districts, d8, d6, d10 v non metro districts for example. Each one is different, so non district games are really a crap shoot

-forced declarations of levels too early, ie, why can't we wait until November, get a few scrimmages in and then declare the correct level

The fines are very excessive for both situations. Can someone with more knowledge tell us what is the big problem is, besides that it written in some rule book, with letting a b1 team play an A team, or at least why we have that rule. Is it an insurance issue?

Btw, I have seen many scrimmages like the squirt one described, including a few this year, not clear what the problem is there either.

they obviously knew what level they were, so to play in a different level is not acceptable. The guidence should come from the district, not MN hockey. Name another sport that you have some practice games then declare? baseball, soccer, basketball...you form your team and declare what level. Live with the decision and abide by the rules. You don't have to like it, but until it changes, it is what it is. It's all there in black and white for all to read.

Juice-

You are right, obviously they knew, in the b1 v A situation that it was not allowed. What I'm getting at is that we need a better system to make sure teams play at the right level. Later declarations would help that (especially for small associations where talent really fluctuates). There is no perfect system though. I do think mn hockey has a role to play in team level declarations though, if anything, to try to get consistency across districts.

As far as the squirt situation, I'm guessing they tried to salvage the game for the kids when no refs came and didn't realize it would be a problem.

[trippedovertheblueline]

If the teams are same age level why can they not play each other? At least allowing a team to play up a level within their age. Mn hock allows cheese head teams to come over. And don't ours play up over there, within age level?