Section 7AA

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:20 am

Plenty of intrigue down the stretch, Grand Rapids hosts Cloquet next Tuesday, and there are still games between CEC and Andover and a rematch with East. Forest Lake plays at Duluth East. I thought Karl's take on the section to this point was objective and accurate. It seems the top 4 are looking pretty clear right now with Andover and Forest Lake failing to grab a significant win in recent weeks.

"As for 7AA seeding, if the season ended today, I'd say:

1. East
2. Elk River
3. Rapids
4. Cloquet
5. Andover
6. Forest Lake
7. St. Francis
8/9. Cambridge/STMA

I wouldn't have any complaints with anyone who put Cloquet 3rd, though. Their meeting next week will, hopefully, settle that.

Rapids may have two section losses, but they also have a pretty big section win over Elk River, and tied Cloquet. Due to their struggles against those lower teams, I don't think we can justify putting them in the top two, but their otherwise pretty good season means those losses shouldn't cost them a spot in the top four, unless a lot of things happen down the stretch.

There are still a bunch of section games to be played, though. A lot if it runs through Cloquet, as they have 2nd meetings with Rapids and East, plus a game with Andover. The Jacks could conceivably still wind up as high as #2, or as low as #5.

Forest Lake and Andover could probably be switched if the Huskies don't have a strong end to their season, but Flake would probably have to beat East to go higher than #5."

Topcheese08 · Post by **Topcheese08** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:17 pm

1. East
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. Grand Rapids
5. Andover
6. Forest lake
7. St Francis
8. Cambridge
9. Stma

Would like to see cloquet and elk river add each other to the schedule.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:06 am

Topcheese08 wrote:1. East
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. Grand Rapids
5. Andover
6. Forest lake
7. St Francis
8. Cambridge
9. Stma

Would like to see cloquet and elk river add each other to the schedule.

I could see this, but CEC doesn't have many quality wins. But I guess GR/CEC will be decided in the rubber match on Tuesday.

gitter · Post by **gitter** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:45 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
Topcheese08 wrote:1. East
2. Elk River
3. Cloquet
4. Grand Rapids
5. Andover
6. Forest lake
7. St Francis
8. Cambridge
9. Stma

Would like to see cloquet and elk river add each other to the schedule.

I could see this, but CEC doesn't have many quality wins. But I guess GR/CEC will be decided in the rubber match on Tuesday.

If GR wins or ties Tuesday, they most likely get the nod above Cloquet, barring a meltdown of losses by GR to finish out the season. If Cloquet somehow knocks of Duluth East in their second meeting, who knows.

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:24 am

If East beats Flake and even loses to Cloquet they will get the 1 seed..
Right now its looking like

East
GR/ER
ER/GR
Cloquet ( if they win tues then they would move to 2/3)
Andover
Flake
STF
Cambridge
STMA

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:01 pm

The biggest question concerns Rapids. Is there overtime win over Elk River the anomaly or are the losses to Forest Lake and St. Francis the anomaly? They have good wins over Elk River, Roseau, Hermantown, and White Bear; but, those two section losses are troubling. This is a similar pattern for Rapids. Highly touted at the beginning of the season but some bad losses. They should only have one more loss this season (Benilde). If they lose any other games they should expect a 4 seed.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:11 pm

greenway1969 wrote:The biggest question concerns Rapids. Is there overtime win over Elk River the anomaly or are the losses to Forest Lake and St. Francis the anomaly? They have good wins over Elk River, Roseau, Hermantown, and White Bear; but, those two section losses are troubling. This is a similar pattern for Rapids. Highly touted at the beginning of the season but some bad losses. They should only have one more loss this season (Benilde). If they lose any other games they should expect a 4 seed.

But what if all the other teams have bad losses, just Rapids is accountable for bad losses but not anyone else. Typical.

Topcheese08 · Post by **Topcheese08** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:04 pm

i dont see how grand rapids could be seeded above cloquet with a loss to forest lake and st francis. cloquet beat forest lake 7-1.

east
elk river
cloquet
forest lake
grand rapids
andover
st francis
cambridge
stma

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:00 am

Topcheese must be a Forest Lake fan. No way in HELL they should be anything but 6. They lose too often and by large margins on a way too consistent basis to even be considered for #5.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:46 am

One thing people need to remember about this section is that no one plays the same number of section games and not the same opponents. If you want to know how this section works with how the coaches look at it, and this is an unarguable fact, they look at the overall season result combined with what they've seen in person with these teams. Specifically in the past one coach said at the seeding meeting that one team should drop, not based on section games, but because of their results vs class A teams in that particular season. Right now it should look like this:

1. Duluth East
2-4 is a tie between CEC/GR/ER, these 3 will be determined down the stretch. Rapids is undefeated in this group of 3, but CEC and ER don't play each other. Andover could be a key common opponent between ER and CEC.
5. Andover - They seem to be a lock for this spot.
6. Forest Lake - Can't hang your hat on one section win they flop the rest of the season
7. St. Francis - Their goalie beat Rapids, other than that their results vs. one of the weakest schedules in the state don't match that one big section win. They could be in the top 3 if seeds were determined by one game, but they are determined by 25.

Cloquet has 3 huge section games left vs. East, Andover, and Forest Lake. Grand Rapids can't afford losses in the IRC and have a chance to enhance their resume vs. Benilde St.-Margaret's on Saturday, a team Elk River lost to and a team ER plays again on the 22nd. It seems Andover and Forest Lake have piled up too many losses to gain ground into the top 4, and Andover should be ahead of Forest Lake based on the fact that Andover has a bunch of one goal losses and beat Eden Prairie, whereas Forest Lake has been completely blown out countless times this season, can't put a team like them that keeps getting embarrassed in the top 5.

That said, seedings aside, even though the pre-season expectations turned out a bit high, this is going to be the most entertaining section to watch. Andover and Forest Lake are capable of putting together enough in a one game scenario to win in the quarterfinals and even St. Francis is looking like a dangerous team when their goalie is on. Even though I doubt this game would be close, watching Cambridge's 7th grade goalie vs. Duluth East would be entertaining.

alcloseshaver · Post by **alcloseshaver** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:55 am

What a mess at the 2-4 spots. Elk Rivers loss to Rapids in OT was the biggest game of the season for ER in terms of seeding. If CEC loses to Andover it would logically put ER ahead of them based on beating Andover twice. ER would have to beat BSM to pass up Rapids for the 2 spot if Rapids loses to BSM. ER never has much luck at the seeding meetings against three northern schools. ER has to beat either Centennial or Blaine to also to help out.

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:03 am

Rapids has 6 of its remaining 8 games against weak Single A teams, with Denfeld being the best one. Can't see how it can beat BSM. Moorhead has its weakest team in at least the last 10 years. With this schedule, Rapids will have a decent record, but will not have played as difficult a schedule as Elk River, Andover and Forest Lake. Unless CEC and Elk River slip badly, Rapids should not get any higher than a 4 seed. Any more slips by Rapids and they should get a 5 or 6 seed.

Hermmunster58 · Post by **Hermmunster58** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:05 am

East and Elk River, are a solid 1 and 2 respectively. East played a solid game last night on WBL's home turf which is always a tough place to come away with a "W'. Whalin is special! The 3rd line appears to be the missing link for East to walk away with the section. After those two teams, it appears to be a crap shoot with Cloquet, GR and Andover. I have seen both Cloquet and GR play once and both had their moments. I won't get to see Andover until sections. It's hard to understand what has happened to Andover, a bunch of returners from last year, a strong goalie plus help from a solid bantam a team last year.

Bronc · Post by **Bronc** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:06 am

alcloseshaver wrote:What a mess at the 2-4 spots. Elk Rivers loss to Rapids in OT was the biggest game of the season for ER in terms of seeding. If CEC loses to Andover it would logically put ER ahead of them based on beating Andover twice. ER would have to beat BSM to pass up Rapids for the 2 spot if Rapids loses to BSM. ER never has much luck at the seeding meetings against three northern schools. ER has to beat either Centennial or Blaine to also to help out.

I agree north votes north for the sake of voting north. Some bad losses for Gr and hanging their hat on an OT vs ER win where they were out played most of the game. But as Karl says margin and why don't mattter just if you got the win.

But with that said last year ER beat Gr and had a quality season and still got bumped below GR so you are right the North will vote for the sake of the North it appears. But when the section games played last year ER won vs Cloquet and Rapids went home vs FL.

Should be interesting seeding meeting and a lot of posturing in the mean time.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:24 am

greenway1969 wrote:Rapids has 6 of its remaining 8 games against weak Single A teams, with Denfeld being the best one. Can't see how it can beat BSM. Moorhead has its weakest team in at least the last 10 years. With this schedule, Rapids will have a decent record, but will not have played as difficult a schedule as Elk River, Andover and Forest Lake. Unless CEC and Elk River slip badly, Rapids should not get any higher than a 4 seed. Any more slips by Rapids and they should get a 5 or 6 seed.

Weaker schedule than Forest Lake? What are you smoking? It seems like some people post based on perception with no time spent actually looking at each teams result/schedule on mnhockyhub.com or followthepuck.com. Most of the single A teams Rapids plays are better than the teams in the SEC.

alcloseshaver · Post by **alcloseshaver** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:36 am

Bronc wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:What a mess at the 2-4 spots. Elk Rivers loss to Rapids in OT was the biggest game of the season for ER in terms of seeding. If CEC loses to Andover it would logically put ER ahead of them based on beating Andover twice. ER would have to beat BSM to pass up Rapids for the 2 spot if Rapids loses to BSM. ER never has much luck at the seeding meetings against three northern schools. ER has to beat either Centennial or Blaine to also to help out.
I agree north votes north for the sake of voting north. Some bad losses for Gr and hanging their hat on an OT vs ER win where they were out played most of the game. But as Karl says margin and why don't mattter just if you got the win.

But with that said last year ER beat Gr and had a quality season and still got bumped below GR so you are right the North will vote for the sake of the North it appears. But when the section games played last year ER won vs Cloquet and Rapids went home vs FL.

Should be interesting seeding meeting and a lot of posturing in the mean time.

ER won't have Sars to rattle any cages at the meeting, He wasn't there last year and they ended up a 4 seed.

Post by **east hockey** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:38 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:Topcheese must be a Forest Lake fan. No way in HELL they should be anything but 6. They lose too often and by large margins on a way too consistent basis to even be considered for #5.

Calling a Cloquet fan a Forest Lake fan? Ouch!

Lee

slyer · Post by **slyer** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:13 am

seedings are a joke, it didn't matter that er beat gr and played a tougher schedule last year, they were seeded below gr.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:43 am

slyer wrote:seedings are a joke, it didn't matter that er beat gr and played a tougher schedule last year, they were seeded below gr.

Again, shows they aren't based on one game. Tougher schedule, but not better results. When teams are that close there's always someone thinking they should get a higher seed. Rapids deserved #3 back in 01-02, got 5 and played at Greenway who they beat and tied that season.

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:16 pm

Bronc wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:What a mess at the 2-4 spots. Elk Rivers loss to Rapids in OT was the biggest game of the season for ER in terms of seeding. If CEC loses to Andover it would logically put ER ahead of them based on beating Andover twice. ER would have to beat BSM to pass up Rapids for the 2 spot if Rapids loses to BSM. ER never has much luck at the seeding meetings against three northern schools. ER has to beat either Centennial or Blaine to also to help out.
I agree north votes north for the sake of voting north. Some bad losses for Gr and hanging their hat on an OT vs ER win where they were out played most of the game. But as Karl says margin and why don't mattter just if you got the win.

But with that said last year ER beat Gr and had a quality season and still got bumped below GR so you are right the North will vote for the sake of the North it appears. But when the section games played last year ER won vs Cloquet and Rapids went home vs FL.

Should be interesting seeding meeting and a lot of posturing in the mean time.

I'm not sure you can blame the north. This section has 3 northern teams and 6 Metro-ish teams, so the southern coaches could outnumber the north if they wanted to. But for whatever reason, it hasn't happened in the past. Do the northern teams just get the benefit of the doubt? Do they look more at overall record, which would favor teams like Cloquet that play weaker schedules?

If record in the section is the most important thing, Rapids has no real chance of being #2. But if they try to use an impartial computer ranking, right now most of those have Rapids and Cloquet a tiny bit ahead of Elk River. And GR's SOS to date, according to PS2, is actually stronger than Elk River's. (Cloquet's is nowhere near those two, but they've also shown flashes of dominance that the other two have not, and with two ties against GR, it's hard to argue they should be too far from the Thunderhawks in the end result.)

Really, there a way for anyone to spin this any way they want to, and sound reasonably intelligent while doing so. It will probably come down to a lot of posturing, and whatever goes on in a dark back room at Tobies on a Wednesday night in mid-February.

MNhockey29 · Post by **MNhockey29** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:47 am

I don't get why "The Hockey DJ" hates Forest Lake?! Give them credit for a big win vs Grand Rapids. Yeah they've been struggling lately but there's still a lot of season left to turn it around. Never know maybe they upset East on Tuesday.

Post by **east hockey** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:51 am

MNhockey29 wrote:I don't get why "The Hockey DJ" hates Forest Lake?! Give them credit for a big win vs Grand Rapids. Yeah they've been struggling lately but there's still a lot of season left to turn it around. Never know maybe they upset East on Tuesday.

It's rather fun to watch the back-and-forth between a Rapids fan and a Forest Lake fan (or two). They seem to revel in each others losses.

Lee

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:06 am

MNhockey29 wrote:I don't get why "The Hockey DJ" hates Forest Lake?! Give them credit for a big win vs Grand Rapids. Yeah they've been struggling lately but there's still a lot of season left to turn it around. Never know maybe they upset East on Tuesday.

Not hating on them, just their fans who are so delusional they want the #1 seed in 7AA and State for a first week win over GR and want to hide all their embarrassing losses. Seedings aside, their team is capable of winning in the playoffs, first round maybe, but nothing after that.

dangle_snipe · Post by **dangle_snipe** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:09 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
MNhockey29 wrote:I don't get why "The Hockey DJ" hates Forest Lake?! Give them credit for a big win vs Grand Rapids. Yeah they've been struggling lately but there's still a lot of season left to turn it around. Never know maybe they upset East on Tuesday.
Not hating on them, just their fans who are so delusional they want the #1 seed in 7AA and State for a first week win over GR and want to hide all their embarrassing losses. Seedings aside, their team is capable of winning in the playoffs, first round maybe, but nothing after that.

Only chance they have in the first round is if they play rapids....

SimplyPut · Post by **SimplyPut** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am

I think part of the Love between Rapids and Forest Lake is neither team wants that dreaded drive at section time. I believe through the years they have seen each other quite a few times during the first round of sections. Thats a long drive for a 2 hour hockey game.