The Merits of Dump and Chase

[stromboli]

Decision-making -- the hardest skill to master. Re-group vs. dump vs. taking it wide vs. cross-ice pass,,, all start with recognizing the situation and making a split-second decision.

Teach all the skating, stick handling, and shooting you want, but take a kid with top 5 "skills" and without good decision making abilities you have a kid who ultimately either hurts the team or keeps it from its full potential.

For the guys who want their super squirt to skate it in all the time, your kid gets dumped at the blue line by Bantams. Better know how to read the rest of the ice.

For the guys who only want to dump and chase, better be ready to give up some odd-man rushes from well coached D-men just waiting for your kids unforced turnover so they can hit their own forwards breaking behind your forecheck.

And don't think for a minute that telling kids at a young age to do things only one way (take it wide, dump it in, etc.) doesn't hinder their development. Habits formed at an early age have long-lasting impact. One dimensional players don't excel. And habits are hard to break, regardless of "skill."

[MNM JMH]

Decision-making -- the hardest skill to master. Re-group vs. dump vs. taking it wide vs. cross-ice pass,,, all start with recognizing the situation and making a split-second decision.

Teach all the skating, stick handling, and shooting you want, but take a kid with top 5 "skills" and without good decision making abilities you have a kid who ultimately either hurts the team or keeps it from its full potential.

For the guys who want their super squirt to skate it in all the time, your kid gets dumped at the blue line by Bantams. Better know how to read the rest of the ice.

For the guys who only want to dump and chase, better be ready to give up some odd-man rushes from well coached D-men just waiting for your kids unforced turnover so they can hit their own forwards breaking behind your forecheck.

And don't think for a minute that telling kids at a young age to do things only one way (take it wide, dump it in, etc.) doesn't hinder their development. Habits formed at an early age have long-lasting impact. One dimensional players don't excel. And habits are hard to break, regardless of "skill."

RIGHT ON...

[SCBlueLiner]

Decision-making -- the hardest skill to master. Re-group vs. dump vs. taking it wide vs. cross-ice pass,,, all start with recognizing the situation and making a split-second decision.

Teach all the skating, stick handling, and shooting you want, but take a kid with top 5 "skills" and without good decision making abilities you have a kid who ultimately either hurts the team or keeps it from its full potential.

For the guys who want their super squirt to skate it in all the time, your kid gets dumped at the blue line by Bantams. Better know how to read the rest of the ice.

For the guys who only want to dump and chase, better be ready to give up some odd-man rushes from well coached D-men just waiting for your kids unforced turnover so they can hit their own forwards breaking behind your forecheck.

And don't think for a minute that telling kids at a young age to do things only one way (take it wide, dump it in, etc.) doesn't hinder their development. Habits formed at an early age have long-lasting impact. One dimensional players don't excel. And habits are hard to break, regardless of "skill."

This is what some of us have been saying in this thread. Dump and chase is a tool, not a lifestyle. Even at squirts we're trying to teach them to see the game and make the right play.

For those that want Johnny to deke his way through 2-3 defenders in the name of skill development, in the end you are hurting that kid as much as you think you are helping them.

[black sheep]

one of the reason this is an issue is that kids are not taught zone entries, it is usually just a freestyle event.

teach them midlane drive, a wide delay, cross and a chip in / dump. They then begin to understand options and how to use them. F1 should be reading the D and taking the best option available. Sometimes that is a skilled play, sometimes not.

At what level does a toe drag at the blue line become a good play? Its about as good as 3 forwards below the goal line, or 5 players on one side of the ice in the D Zone. But why teach them any of that either, just let them play right?

these kids even at squirt age are way smarter than we give them credit for.

[JSR]

Decision-making -- the hardest skill to master. Re-group vs. dump vs. taking it wide vs. cross-ice pass,,, all start with recognizing the situation and making a split-second decision.

Teach all the skating, stick handling, and shooting you want, but take a kid with top 5 "skills" and without good decision making abilities you have a kid who ultimately either hurts the team or keeps it from its full potential.

For the guys who want their super squirt to skate it in all the time, your kid gets dumped at the blue line by Bantams. Better know how to read the rest of the ice.

For the guys who only want to dump and chase, better be ready to give up some odd-man rushes from well coached D-men just waiting for your kids unforced turnover so they can hit their own forwards breaking behind your forecheck.

And don't think for a minute that telling kids at a young age to do things only one way (take it wide, dump it in, etc.) doesn't hinder their development. Habits formed at an early age have long-lasting impact. One dimensional players don't excel. And habits are hard to break, regardless of "skill."

This is what some of us have been saying in this thread. Dump and chase is a tool, not a lifestyle. Even at squirts we're trying to teach them to see the game and make the right play.

For those that want Johnny to deke his way through 2-3 defenders in the name of skill development, in the end you are hurting that kid as much as you think you are helping them.

I've seen ALOT of good high school players who regularly make the right play and see the ice phenominally and have worked their way to D1 scholarships and beyond and you know what, I have seen those same players "deke their way through 2-3 defenders" enroute to scoring goals in high school. I'm curious, do you think they developed their ability to make that play in high school by trying it for the first time in high school...... I'd also point out that this post is a great departure from your earlier posts..... I still think it's a useless tool at squirt age and below and haven't seen ANY kids harmed by waiting to teach it at the Pee Wee level, which I said is the appropriate age to begin teaching it....... You can't make split second deicsions if you can't skate, stick handle and pass, or in other words you can't make split second decisions with your head down which I see far too much of at the squirt level and below.....

[pineline]

It's about playing with good habits. These should be developed at the squirt age and reinforced through each level.

Always face the puck.
Always skate to open ice when you get the puck.
Always follow your pass.
Always follow your shot.
Always try to create 2 on 1's.
Always move the puck to a player in a better position than you.
Always get the puck over your blueline when under pressure.
Always get the puck in deep at their blueline when under pressure.
Always shoot and pass when skating.
Always play defense from the defensive side.

[old goalie85]

Always follow your pass ??

[pineline]

Yes, always follow your pass as a general rule. If for example a defenseman carries the puck around the net and makes a breakout pass to the wing. He should continue up inside the dot and become either an option for that wing or to be in a defensive position in case the puck gets turned over. Too many players stand and watch the pass they have just made and take themselves out of the play.

[old goalie85]

I got ya now. I liked the rest of the list. [In fact I copied it]

[BadgerBob82]

Lists of always and never do's and don'ts are impossible with hockey.

[Shortsidegoal]

It's about playing with good habits. These should be developed at the squirt age and reinforced through each level.

Always face the puck.
Always skate to open ice when you get the puck.
Always follow your pass.
Always follow your shot.
Always try to create 2 on 1's.
Always move the puck to a player in a better position than you.
Always get the puck over your blueline when under pressure.
Always get the puck in deep at their blueline when under pressure.
Always shoot and pass when skating.
Always play defense from the defensive side.

RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!!

[pineline]

These are general rules that should be stressed.

[PanthersIn2011]

Stromboli: Very well said.

Youth coaches need to be providing options to players, not taking them away. The coach who won't let them dump isn't much better than the guy who won't let them dangle.

[SCBlueLiner]

Decision-making -- the hardest skill to master. Re-group vs. dump vs. taking it wide vs. cross-ice pass,,, all start with recognizing the situation and making a split-second decision.

Teach all the skating, stick handling, and shooting you want, but take a kid with top 5 "skills" and without good decision making abilities you have a kid who ultimately either hurts the team or keeps it from its full potential.

For the guys who want their super squirt to skate it in all the time, your kid gets dumped at the blue line by Bantams. Better know how to read the rest of the ice.

For the guys who only want to dump and chase, better be ready to give up some odd-man rushes from well coached D-men just waiting for your kids unforced turnover so they can hit their own forwards breaking behind your forecheck.

And don't think for a minute that telling kids at a young age to do things only one way (take it wide, dump it in, etc.) doesn't hinder their development. Habits formed at an early age have long-lasting impact. One dimensional players don't excel. And habits are hard to break, regardless of "skill."

This is what some of us have been saying in this thread. Dump and chase is a tool, not a lifestyle. Even at squirts we're trying to teach them to see the game and make the right play.

For those that want Johnny to deke his way through 2-3 defenders in the name of skill development, in the end you are hurting that kid as much as you think you are helping them.

I've seen ALOT of good high school players who regularly make the right play and see the ice phenominally and have worked their way to D1 scholarships and beyond and you know what, I have seen those same players "deke their way through 2-3 defenders" enroute to scoring goals in high school. I'm curious, do you think they developed their ability to make that play in high school by trying it for the first time in high school...... I'd also point out that this post is a great departure from your earlier posts..... I still think it's a useless tool at squirt age and below and haven't seen ANY kids harmed by waiting to teach it at the Pee Wee level, which I said is the appropriate age to begin teaching it....... You can't make split second deicsions if you can't skate, stick handle and pass, or in other words you can't make split second decisions with your head down which I see far too much of at the squirt level and below.....

Show me where this is a great departure from what I posted earlier. I said it's a tool, a play, not a philosophy, then I gave an example of when it would be the right play. I've always maintained that we should be teaching the kids to think, to make the right play.

[Section 8 guy]

My comments on the topic were directed at 2 things.

First, WGTTRs original comments on the topic, which if you go back and read them were pretty strong and black and white compared to the rest of this discussion which has been pretty well stated and reasonable.

And second, the fact that 2/3 of the squirt teams I see play a complete dump and chase style throughout the game with very few exceptions. The kids playing in those associations will be negatively impacted by that in the long run and their teams will probably have less success later on than they do in squirts.

The comments that kids need to be coached to recognize situations are spot on. The issue I'm addressing is the fact that I don't see many squirt teams that coach their kids to dangle and deke to a fault. I do see many squirt teams that coach their kids to dump and chase to a fault however.

[wannagototherink]

My comments on the topic were directed at 2 things.

First, WGTTRs original comments on the topic, which if you go back and read them were pretty strong and black and white compared to the rest of this discussion which has been pretty well stated and reasonable.

And second, the fact that 2/3 of the squirt teams I see play a complete dump and chase style throughout the game with very few exceptions. The kids playing in those associations will be negatively impacted by that in the long run and their teams will probably have less success later on than they do in squirts.

The comments that kids need to be coached to recognize situations are spot on. The issue I'm addressing is the fact that I don't see many squirt teams that coach their kids to dangle and deke to a fault. I do see many squirt teams that coach their kids to dump and chase to a fault however.

I think my comment of it being better to dump the puck in rather than turn the puck over in the neutral zone (the post you responded too) is pretty much what everyone else has stated. My point of the post was to combat the notion that dumping in the puck is always a bad play, not that it is the only play. In addition, the notion of "dumping and chasing" is not a hinderence on skill development but it is actually a skill that needs to be understood by players if they have thoughts or dreams of playing competitive hockey passed high school, ie. long term development.

[luckyEPDad]

Dumping the puck is bad strategy. It is the hockey equivalent of a Hail Mary. You are intentionally giving up possion of the object that allows you to score. Hockey teams should do everything in their power to never give up posession of the puck.

That said, the opposing team has other thoughts and annoyingly plays defense. If you are about to lose posession of the puck it is better that happen in the far corners. Players also get tired and require occasional shift changes. There are good reasons to occasionally dump the puck.

The problem is that there are many teams that think dump first and maintain posession second. Their only apparent strategy is cross the red line and throw the puck in a corner. They don't regroup and move the puck around to create openings to the goal. They dump and it is a race to the corners. While this may have worked for a while with the old rules, it is an inherently dangerous strategy that will result in a greater number of back checking and boarding penalties.

[JSR]

Dumping the puck is bad strategy. It is the hockey equivalent of a Hail Mary. You are intentionally giving up possion of the object that allows you to score. Hockey teams should do everything in their power to never give up posession of the puck.

That said, the opposing team has other thoughts and annoyingly plays defense. If you are about to lose posession of the puck it is better that happen in the far corners. Players also get tired and require occasional shift changes. There are good reasons to occasionally dump the puck.

The problem is that there are many teams that think dump first and maintain posession second. Their only apparent strategy is cross the red line and throw the puck in a corner. They don't regroup and move the puck around to create openings to the goal. They dump and it is a race to the corners. While this may have worked for a while with the old rules, it is an inherently dangerous strategy that will result in a greater number of back checking and boarding penalties.

\

spot on

[JSR]

This is what some of us have been saying in this thread. Dump and chase is a tool, not a lifestyle. Even at squirts we're trying to teach them to see the game and make the right play.

For those that want Johnny to deke his way through 2-3 defenders in the name of skill development, in the end you are hurting that kid as much as you think you are helping them.

I've seen ALOT of good high school players who regularly make the right play and see the ice phenominally and have worked their way to D1 scholarships and beyond and you know what, I have seen those same players "deke their way through 2-3 defenders" enroute to scoring goals in high school. I'm curious, do you think they developed their ability to make that play in high school by trying it for the first time in high school...... I'd also point out that this post is a great departure from your earlier posts..... I still think it's a useless tool at squirt age and below and haven't seen ANY kids harmed by waiting to teach it at the Pee Wee level, which I said is the appropriate age to begin teaching it....... You can't make split second deicsions if you can't skate, stick handle and pass, or in other words you can't make split second decisions with your head down which I see far too much of at the squirt level and below.....

Show me where this is a great departure from what I posted earlier. I said it's a tool, a play, not a philosophy, then I gave an example of when it would be the right play. I've always maintained that we should be teaching the kids to think, to make the right play.

To be fair to you SCB I think I may have confused a few of your posts with WGTTRs

I also agree with Section 8 guy 100% when he says "I don't see many squirt teams that coach their kids to dangle and deke to a fault. I do see many squirt teams that coach their kids to dump and chase to a fault however." . Anything can be taught to a fault but it's ALOT EASIER to teach a skilled pee wee to dump and chase than it is to teach a pee wee who knows how to dump and chase but doesn't have the skills they need to deke and dangle if they haven't learned them and have the confidence to do them by the end of squirts.....

[old goalie85]

Cool topic. I think we all are trying to get to the same place just taking different roads. A time and a place for both. Dumping on a breakaway/or such=bad. Dumping when you need a change=good. Stickhandling around a guy on a one on one = good. Trying to stickhandle through 4 guys at the blueline while your team is changing=bad. You will always have coaches " push the envolope" one way or another. At least outdoor ice is almost here !!!! Nobody dumps it it on the pond. Everyone trys to stickhandle through ten guys on the pond!!!!!!!

[O-townClown]

It's about playing with good habits. These should be developed at the squirt age and reinforced through each level.

Always face the puck.
Always skate to open ice when you get the puck.
Always follow your pass.
Always follow your shot.
Always try to create 2 on 1's.
Always move the puck to a player in a better position than you.
Always get the puck over your blueline when under pressure.
Always get the puck in deep at their blueline when under pressure.
Always shoot and pass when skating.
Always play defense from the defensive side.

Pineline, this is an excellent list. I too copied it. Minor modifications. I changed "follow your pass" to "move after you make a pass" and I eliminated "Always" and just called it a list of "Hockey Do's". I'll probably add something about skating to the player when trying to win a puck. This is great; thanks for sharing!

(P.S. Not sure I follow the last one. Is that equivalent of basketball's "Ball-You-Man" concept where you get between them and the puck? Not sure how I'd explain to my son.)

[pineline]

Him/Her-Me-Net in defensive sitautions. Player has to go through me to get to the net. Even in loose puck scrums want to be on defensive side of the puck.

[luckyEPDad]

It's about playing with good habits. These should be developed at the squirt age and reinforced through each level.

Always face the puck.
Always skate to open ice when you get the puck.
Always follow your pass.
Always follow your shot.
Always try to create 2 on 1's.
Always move the puck to a player in a better position than you.
Always get the puck over your blueline when under pressure.
Always get the puck in deep at their blueline when under pressure.
Always shoot and pass when skating.
Always play defense from the defensive side.

I don't like "Always face the pick". Players should have their head on a swivel and be aware of every teammate's and opponent's position. Focusing on the puck leaves you unaware of what is going on behind you. A good offense would destroy a defense that was always looking at the puck.

Follow your pass is a great way to bunch up your players and award the defense an extra man.

Skate to open ice is not such good advice either. Open ice in the right place is a valuable commodity. Fill it at the wrong time and you make playing defense easy for your opponent. The offense should move to create pockets of open ice and jump on opportunities when they occur. My daughter played 3 on 3 over the summer against Minnetonka. The Minnetonka girls were masters at manipulating the defense into creating openings, and jumping on them when they occurred. It was artistry.

Move the puck to a player in a better position than you is almost worthless advice. What does this mean? Players who are more open? Players closer to the net? Players with a clear shot? Players with a clear lane? It is like telling your team that they should put the puck in the net. Good idea, but how do we go about doing such a thing? Pass to players in a better position. Great idea, but how do I know if my teammate is in a better position than me?

Always shoot and pass while skating. Why not make this "Always be moving"? Unless you are screening I see no reason why a player should ever be stationary.

Always play defense from the defensive side? What about back checking? If you put your forwards in too much of a defensive mindset they will not score. Forwards need to take some risks, knowing that their teammates will back them up. Players need to know that sometimes they are going to lose the puck and they are going to chase it back down.

This is a fine list, but there is no list for being a good hockey player. Young players must be made aware of best practices and how to think tactically and strategically. However, a player should never be told "This is how you play forward. Always follow these rules." "This is how you play defense. Always follow these rules." Coaches should strive to build smart players, not automata.

[MNM JMH]

It's about playing with good habits. These should be developed at the squirt age and reinforced through each level.

Always face the puck.
Always skate to open ice when you get the puck.
Always follow your pass.
Always follow your shot.
Always try to create 2 on 1's.
Always move the puck to a player in a better position than you.
Always get the puck over your blueline when under pressure.
Always get the puck in deep at their blueline when under pressure.
Always shoot and pass when skating.
Always play defense from the defensive side.

I don't like "Always face the pick". Players should have their head on a swivel and be aware of every teammate's and opponent's position. Focusing on the puck leaves you unaware of what is going on behind you. A good offense would destroy a defense that was always looking at the puck.

Follow your pass is a great way to bunch up your players and award the defense an extra man.

Skate to open ice is not such good advice either. Open ice in the right place is a valuable commodity. Fill it at the wrong time and you make playing defense easy for your opponent. The offense should move to create pockets of open ice and jump on opportunities when they occur. My daughter played 3 on 3 over the summer against Minnetonka. The Minnetonka girls were masters at manipulating the defense into creating openings, and jumping on them when they occurred. It was artistry.

Move the puck to a player in a better position than you is almost worthless advice. What does this mean? Players who are more open? Players closer to the net? Players with a clear shot? Players with a clear lane? It is like telling your team that they should put the puck in the net. Good idea, but how do we go about doing such a thing? Pass to players in a better position. Great idea, but how do I know if my teammate is in a better position than me?

Always shoot and pass while skating. Why not make this "Always be moving"? Unless you are screening I see no reason why a player should ever be stationary.

Always play defense from the defensive side? What about back checking? If you put your forwards in too much of a defensive mindset they will not score. Forwards need to take some risks, knowing that their teammates will back them up. Players need to know that sometimes they are going to lose the puck and they are going to chase it back down.

This is a fine list, but there is no list for being a good hockey player. Young players must be made aware of best practices and how to think tactically and strategically. However, a player should never be told "This is how you play forward. Always follow these rules." "This is how you play defense. Always follow these rules." Coaches should strive to build smart players, not automata.

LuckyEPdad

That's it!!!

[pineline]

Good points LEPD. Offensively and defensively facing the puck mean different things. Defensively, you need to be in a position to see both the puck and the player/area you are covering. Offensively, it's opening yours
elf up to the puckcarrier. What does the puckcarrier need from me? As Wayne Gretzky said "Players without the puck make the passing game go". Do you like players that stand and watch or become involved in the play?

I'll take a team that plays with these habits anytime over a team that doesn't. These are general rules (best practices) that should be introduced. You can look at the game two ways: the robotic stay in your lanes way or the puck support short quick pass way that we stress. They both have their merits depending on the types of players you have.