mulefarm wrote:
Right on! If Besse was going to the U, people would be wetting their pants over his performance. How can people not appreciate an unbelieveable game, something they probably will never see again!
There is a difference between appreciating the effort, the performance, and the player and saying it was a mistake for the Gophers not to recruit him. It was an outstanding effort, and epic performance, and he is a great player. However, that does not necessarily mean it was a mistake not to recruit him. It's all about need.
Like they didn't think they needed Ryan McDonagh or Jake Gardiner! I suppose that wasn't a mistake?
At the time, no, it wasn't. It's not like the players the Gophers recruited instead weren't heavily recruited by other schools, including Wisconsin. No coach hits 100% of the time. Plus, Wisconsin had Mark Osiecki coaching, the Gophers had John Hill. How would Aaron Ness and company have developed under Mike Guentzel? And look at UW, they didn't offer Nate Condon.
Fact remains, you have to let things play out before you can judge. To say we should have offered full scholarship to Grant Besse means you think we shouldn't have offered full scholarship to either Taylor Cammarata, Hudson Fasching, or Gabe Guertler (all arguably Top 5 nationally for 1995 birth year). You can't bring everyone in under full scholarship, or commit to bring everyone in right away.
I'd take the Gopher's forward recruits over Wisconsin's ANY DAY.
Sorry if you have seen a lot of HS hockey or Elite league this year it was a great season. If you compare Besse from last year to this year its night and day in regards to his skating and Physical play. HM is considered one of the top skating teams and he blew by those guys like they were standing still. He has also worked very hard on his strength and is much stronger now compared to a year ago. That scouting report was much more accurate last year but in the past 6 months he has improved a great deal.
Sorry if you have seen a lot of HS hockey or Elite league this year it was a great season. If you compare Besse from last year to this year its night and day in regards to his skating and Physical play. HM is considered one of the top skating teams and he blew by those guys like they were standing still. He has also worked very hard on his strength and is much stronger now compared to a year ago. That scouting report was much more accurate last year but in the past 6 months he has improved a great deal.
When did I say he wasn't a good skater or physical? In fact, I think I mentioned in one of my posts that he has improved defensively, and a lot of that has to do with improving his skating and physicality. I just said he isn't better in either capacity than Spehar was. And he isn't.
And I don't think he is anywhere near as talented offensively as Cammarata, who is proving it against much better competition at a younger age.
Besse is a good player and had a historic game, but BSM played the state's 26th hardest schedule, so let's not get carried away here. Let's see him at the next level before drawing any conclusions.
Last edited by JDUBBS1280 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Is Besse better than Taylor C., NO. I never said that he was but does he have the ability to have a great college career and is he good enough for the Gophers, Yes. The Gophers have a great class of juniors coming in, maybe one of the top classes in NCAA history. With that being said you could have Besse come in the following year.
It is interesting that Grant and Mario Lucia were on the same teams in Squirt, PW, and Bantams every other year, and won a championship in PW together. Don't know if there is a positive or negative backstory, but there was plenty of exposure both ways.
minnscout wrote:Is Besse better than Taylor C., NO. I never said that he was but does he have the ability to have a great college career and is he good enough for the Gophers, Yes. The Gophers have a great class of juniors coming in, maybe one of the top classes in NCAA history. With that being said you could have Besse come in the following year.
The question isn't a matter of talent. Besse is a good player. My feeling is he is the kind of player that pretty much has to be a center on one of the top 2 lines on a team in order to be effective. The problem is the Gophers easily have those kinds of spots covered with some very talented players for a good for two or three seasons after Besse would likely enter college (2014).
So then you have to ask yourself could he be effective in a role that requires more of a defensive focus, less PP time, etc? My feeling is he would likely struggle in that type of a role. Obviously Lucia believes he had good reasons to take a pass at the time and he is very familiar with a kid's game.
I'm not sure how great of a fit UW is going to be either. Besse hardly strikes anybody as a guy that is going to thrive in a program where playing a disciplined system is the top priority. There won't be a lot of freewheeling play when you throw on the Wisconsin jersey. Not sure that place is a great fit for him. He may have been better off going to SCSU or CC since they were his other options and they have programs that tends to loosen the reins more on offensive players.
I still can't believe ANYONE is ripping this kid. He just score 5 flippin' goals in the state championship, he's commited to one of the best hockey programs in the country, if you've watched him play for his 3 years in high school he has progressively improved in all aspects of his game. Going to the Badgers he WILL play defense and develop.
And I agree with the guy who seems to be all over T Cam's tip...the recruiting class the U has coming in 2 years from now is loaded loaded loaded with offense. The Goph's should be enjoying several years on top in the near future. Whoever's lucky enough to Center the Cammarrata/Fasching line at the U will win the Hobey Baker (see Oshie/Toews)
minnscout wrote:Is Besse better than Taylor C., NO. I never said that he was but does he have the ability to have a great college career and is he good enough for the Gophers, Yes. The Gophers have a great class of juniors coming in, maybe one of the top classes in NCAA history. With that being said you could have Besse come in the following year.
The question isn't a matter of talent. Besse is a good player. My feeling is he is the kind of player that pretty much has to be a center on one of the top 2 lines on a team in order to be effective. The problem is the Gophers easily have those kinds of spots covered with some very talented players for a good for two or three seasons after Besse would likely enter college (2014).
So then you have to ask yourself could he be effective in a role that requires more of a defensive focus, less PP time, etc? My feeling is he would likely struggle in that type of a role. Obviously Lucia believes he had good reasons to take a pass at the time and he is very familiar with a kid's game.
I'm not sure how great of a fit UW is going to be either. Besse hardly strikes anybody as a guy that is going to thrive in a program where playing a disciplined system is the top priority. There won't be a lot of freewheeling play when you throw on the Wisconsin jersey. Not sure that place is a great fit for him. He may have been better off going to SCSU or CC since they were his other options and they have programs that tends to loosen the reins more on offensive players.
Thank you for better putting into words what I was trying to say. You can't have a team full of top line guys, and I think they picked the right guys to take the top line center spots.
Do you think Cammarata will ever make it to the U. If he is a high draft pick, I bet he goes the major junior route. Lookingf at his hockey path so far, I would say his goal is to get to the NHL as quick as possible.
Tenoverpar wrote:I still can't believe ANYONE is ripping this kid.
Is anyone really "ripping" Besse? Only a fool wouldn't be impressed by what he did last week. What I have seen on this board and elsewhere is speculation as to why the Gophers didn't recruit him, and reasonable possible explanations as to why. Good as he is, he's not a perfect hockey player (NHL central scouting didn't rank him in the midterm rankings this year, for example), and I don't think speculation as to what he'll do at the next level is that far out of line.
Do you think Cammarata will ever make it to the U. If he is a high draft pick, I bet he goes the major junior route. Lookingf at his hockey path so far, I would say his goal is to get to the NHL as quick as possible.
You obviously know little about his background. The kid has grown up a massive Gopher fan. I feel about as safe about him playing college hockey as I would Mario Lucia playing college hockey. If he wanted to go WHL, he could have done that already with ease.
Not to mention, you do realize he is no taller than 5'7, right? That's not exactly the type of player that pro teams draft super high and then fast track to the pros in a year or two. Look at Grimaldi as a prime example of that.
The midterm rankings are based thru the summer rankings, I will guarantee Besse gets drafted in the top 4 rounds. He has made huge advancements since the summer and I know the scouts have noticed.
Tenoverpar wrote:I still can't believe ANYONE is ripping this kid.
Is anyone really "ripping" Besse? Only a fool wouldn't be impressed by what he did last week. What I have seen on this board and elsewhere is speculation as to why the Gophers didn't recruit him, and reasonable possible explanations as to why. Good as he is, he's not a perfect hockey player (NHL central scouting didn't rank him in the midterm rankings this year, for example), and I don't think speculation as to what he'll do at the next level is that far out of line.
The kids that were knocking his goals as coming from him cherry picking were trying to.
I'll grant that there were some people complaining about cherry-picking; on here, as in the rest of life, sometimes you have to ignore the morons.
The central scouting midterm rankings were based on this year as well; you could see players that had moved in both directions from the preliminary lists that came out last fall. Again, I think the kid is a GREAT player. It's not insulting him or his talent to note that Don Lucia, who's watched him play since he was in mites, didn't recruit him . . . and that Besse did very well but didn't flat-out dominate the Elite League (Kloos had half again as many points as he did) . . . and that he might not have been a great fit for the Gophers. Speculating about this stuff is what people do here.
minnscout wrote:The midterm rankings are based thru the summer rankings, I will guarantee Besse gets drafted in the top 4 rounds. He has made huge advancements since the summer and I know the scouts have noticed.
Just wondering, in the article posted below, Besse states that one of the main reason why he chose UW was because "They were the first college to ever approach me" ... Is there a chance that the Gophers did try and recruit Besse? but Besse really just had his heart set on going to Madison? .... Just a thought...also it could be that the Gophers just had zero interest in the kid
This might be a good time to point out that perhaps that central scouting list might not be the most reliable resource, seeing as how it included Louie Nanne but not either Besse or Kloos.
And while it would certainly be nice to say you were drafted by an NHL team, you can argue that for players like Besse and Kloos, who don't have great size, it may be to their long-term benefit not to get drafted. Realistically, whether or not they get drafted, they're only going to get a shot at the pro level if they do well in college - in general that's true for all players, of course, but I think it's particularly so for smaller guys. If they don't get drafted, but then develop so that NHL teams want them in three or four years, they're in a position to have some leverage, and can pick which team/situation they think will fit them best. J.T. Brown is an example of this.
We are, of course, getting ridiculously far ahead of ourselves in discussing the NHL futures of guys who haven't played college hockey yet.
just like Rau and other past Mr. Hockey's ... Kloos will go in either 2nd or 3rd round