Minnesota Peewee "A" Regional Previews & Predi

[BadgerBob82]

Fred: You make no sense. How are they worried about winning? It appears they are losing alot, yet are competitive with top level associations. Not sure which 9 teams you are talking about? If you mean the other teams in D9, their problem is playing at the "A" level. That is the result of parents or coaches having a big ego needing to play "A" hockey.

[jackdaw]

Its not the same. I can see one team getting better because they play every game against better competition but its a stretch to say every team ( MAML, Buffalo etc. ) got better because they play St. Cloud 2 times a year.

So the justification is that one team playing every game against tougher competition will improve the current group of kids for that year. The nine teams playing “poorer competition" does not improve the nine teams since they will need to play more than 2 games a year against tougher competition. Then after Rochester Red were beaten badly by Prior Lake 7-3 and 8-0, Centennial 9-5, Stillwater 9-3, and OMG 9-2 in their first 10 games this year; Prior Lake, Centennial, Stillwater, and OMG should have dropped the Red from their schedule since playing a weaker team would impede their current kids development?

It is not logical. The whole thought process is driven by winning, not by development.

Fred's been drinking again.

[defense]

Contrast what is happening in D9 with what is happening in D5. St. Cloud actually joined D5 and dominated the league last year. This year St. Cloud had to fight to get to the West Regional getting the #3 seed.

Their presence in the league last year elevated the play of the D5.
It shows this year. Two D5 teams, STMA #1 and MAML #2, won the West Regional tourney beating Roseau and Moorhead Black among others. STMA and MAML will play in the state tourney in two weeks for the first time.

Rochester chose to keep their top team out of D9 regular season in a selfish move to play more games against better competition. The fact that they are denying the rest of D9 better competition to allow their own associations to improve hurts hockey in all of Southern Minnesota.

So this year, STMA and MAML are going to the State tourney in Alexandria. None of the D9 teams, including Rochester’s best, are going to state.

Rochester is the driving behind dividing peewee A hockey into AA and A next year. Such foolishness because this split has the potential to drive numbers in youth hockey down across the state and by the time the experiment is over, Minnesota hockey may never recover. To everybody out there, it is kids playing hockey. The ego’s of coaches and parents does not count. Once the peewee A season is over, the kids grow, change and go in all sorts of directions.

The ego’s of coaches and parents move on to bantam and high school. But what they leave behind for the squirt and mite kids, they never think about. In this case and in these economic times, they are leaving garbage. But they don’t care.

I think the peewee A results last year and this year have more to do with the age group of the particular teams than the fact that St. Cloud joined d5 and made everyone better. It's not that simple, thats is a reach.

It's a pretty big reach man, MAML and St. Micheal Albertville had to overcome some pretty stiff competition to win that regional. Don't think that playing against St. Cloud put them over the edge.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Its not the same. I can see one team getting better because they play every game against better competition but its a stretch to say every team ( MAML, Buffalo etc. ) got better because they play St. Cloud 2 times a year.

So the justification is that one team playing every game against tougher competition will improve the current group of kids for that year. The nine teams playing “poorer competition" does not improve the nine teams since they will need to play more than 2 games a year against tougher competition. Then after Rochester Red were beaten badly by Prior Lake 7-3 and 8-0, Centennial 9-5, Stillwater 9-3, and OMG 9-2 in their first 10 games this year; Prior Lake, Centennial, Stillwater, and OMG should have dropped the Red from their schedule since playing a weaker team would impede their current kids development?

It is not logical. The whole thought process is driven by winning, not by development.

I'm not trying to justify anything as I'm not associated with Rochester nor am I fixated as you are, in all honesty i could care less. But if it was driven by winning then wouldn't Red have stayed in D9 and presumably won all the time ? You implied D5 teams got better because St Cloud joining D5 providing the rest of D5 with better competition and made them better. If that's the case then playing better teams would make red better too ? I merely said it has more to do with the changing of the D5 team players than St Cloud joining D5. if it was as easy as adding 2 games against better competition then anyone could add 2 scrimmages against better teams.

[BadgerBob82]

Fred wants Rochester Red to play Albert Lea twice a week.

[Mnhockeys]

Fred wants Rochester Red to play Albert Lea twice a week.

Hope you meant twice in a season. So what do you think why D9 performed like they did in the region, with 4 berths? Can those teams (minus RR) give a game to any of the bottom teams from D6 or D8?

[Stratal]

To answer the question would anyone give them a challenge
The simple answer is No
and the proof is this:

The Undefeated Team (in d9) team Luverne didn't score a goal and had 5 shots on net in the district final.

In answer to the other teams in the Tourney Rochester Black is a B1 team and with it going to AA and A that will prevent those type of teams playing in the AA tourney and getting shellacked it will make for a much better balanced Regional and state.

I feel sorry for Fred and his continual assault on the Rochester Program

Here is a challenge for him.....Pick up the phone and call Rochester ..I guarantee they will accept playing you and thus you can answer that old problem you have against Rochester ....Is Rochester better then Your team, Please update us to how that goes for you.....IM SURE YOU WILL

[BadgerBob82]

Mnhockeys: I did mean twice a WEEK as Fred thinks Rochester is not performing the community service of playing D9 teams thus making D9 assoications weaker somehow.

I will ask how the former D4 did in regional play over the past 10 years?

Rochester had been moved from D4 to D8 due to the size of Rochester's association and inability of D4 associations to provide teams at the levels of play.

Rochester has A1, A2, B1, B2 and C teams at all levels. Girls 14A, 14B, 12A, 12B, 10A and 10B. All of these levels are not offered in D9. PLUS, the associations choosing to field A teams truly compete at a B level when compared to the rest of the State.

So it is any surprise the D9 teams lost to all D6 teams in regions? NO. I'm not too sure if they would have come out of regions had they played at the B level.

Had Rochester remained in D8, I don't know if either Bantam or Pee-Wee A teams would have come out of D8 Districts? But the level of competition would be legitimate at the A level and the Red teams would have once again enjoyed a 15 game league schedule.

D9 associations should act together and kick Rochester out of D9 and MN Hockey force D8 to do the right thing and include Rochester into D8.

[Mnhockeys]

The biggest surprise to me about this topics is that there seems to no voice from the rest of the D9 teams and associations. Understand a lot of supporters for Rochester Red teams here.

Most of us are simply outsiders and wish what could be done differently for those D9 teams. I am sure no one is happy to be categorized as a B team if they played at the A level.

[frederick61]

silentbutdeadly wrote
"I'm not trying to justify anything as I'm not associated with Rochester nor am I fixated as you are, in all honesty i could care less. But if it was driven by winning then wouldn't Red have stayed in D9 and presumably won all the time?"

Rochester joined D9 one season ago when D9 was formed from D4 and D8 teams. The new D9 locates associations more closely in an effort to cut travel costs. With gas threatening to reach $5 a gallon by the end of the year, it was a good thing to do. The new D8 which had 12 teams is basically St.Paul south and east through Lakeville and Hastings. Rochester left D8 at that time. Rochester is another 45 minute drive south on Highway 52.

D8 ended up with 12 peewee A teams this past season. D9 without Rochester and Luverne ended up with 9 teams. One problem Rochester had with D8 is that they always wanted to register both an A1 and an A2 team in D8 at the A level and D8 did not want that. Rochester tried to get D4 to take their A2 team and for one season D4 had sort of an experiment, but it didn’t work out.

Rochester Association has sold the parents that an A1 team is necessary and that team needs to play the top teams in the state. Last year, was the first year they tried that by going independent. One thing that happened is that the A1 team had to play every weekend if they could get the better teams scheduled, but with those teams playing weekend tourneys and 16 game or more district schedules, scheduling the better teams became difficult and often would force travel to cities on a week night for a single hour game.

Rochester has been promoting AA and A split because they hope it solves this problem, but I see too many problems with it at the peewee A level. In my estimation, the Rochester association has been fighting either splitting along the lines of Lakeville into two groups within an association or splitting into two associations. To appease people, they have come up with the A1 and A2 and have been rejected by D8 and D4 for the past 15 to 20 years. They will promote the AA and A approach as a solution, but think for a moment. The whole state will have to change to accommodate Rochester and that could put a serious damper on maintaining and growing the sport in Minnesota. That is where my concerns lie. I want Minnesota hockey at the youth level to survive and be there for the next generation of kids.

All the other words you see written about me personally are just trying to convince people I have another agenda. If you cant argue the facts, you act the person. I don’t have a personal agenda here.

[Stratal]

How do you say you don't have a agenda

a couple (OK Many) of mis truths

sold to the parents that is funny!!!!
split into 2 associations where do you get this Bunk?
They didnt leave D8 ....D9 was formed and Rochester was its Anchor
Rochester isnt the Only association promoting AA and A...only in your eyes they are....

you know if you spent as much time making Albert Lea better instead of bagging on Rochester they would be a competitive team but we know where they stand and you stand
here is whats funny about your logic (among many other things)
"if Red Played Albert Lea , they would be better (Albert Lea that is)
and now you say the A2 team plays better competition and that is wrong
make up your mind.

"I'm not trying to justify anything as I'm not associated with Rochester nor am I fixated as you are, in all honesty i could care less. But if it was driven by winning then wouldn't Red have stayed in D9 and presumably won all the time?"

Rochester joined D9 one season ago when D9 was formed from D4 and D8 teams. The new D9 locates associations more closely in an effort to cut travel costs. With gas threatening to reach $5 a gallon by the end of the year, it was a good thing to do. The new D8 which had 12 teams is basically St.Paul south and east through Lakeville and Hastings. Rochester left D8 at that time. Rochester is another 45 minute drive south on Highway 52.

D8 ended up with 12 peewee A teams this past season. D9 without Rochester and Luverne ended up with 9 teams. One problem Rochester had with D8 is that they always wanted to register both an A1 and an A2 team in D8 at the A level and D8 did not want that. Rochester tried to get D4 to take their A2 team and for one season D4 had sort of an experiment, but it didn’t work out.

Rochester Association has sold the parents that an A1 team is necessary and that team needs to play the top teams in the state. Last year, was the first year they tried that by going independent. One thing that happened is that the A1 team had to play every weekend if they could get the better teams scheduled, but with those teams playing weekend tourneys and 16 game or more district schedules, scheduling the better teams became difficult and often would force travel to cities on a week night for a single hour game.

Rochester has been promoting AA and A split because they hope it solves this problem, but I see too many problems with it at the peewee A level. In my estimation, the Rochester association has been fighting either splitting along the lines of Lakeville into two groups within an association or splitting into two associations. To appease people, they have come up with the A1 and A2 and have been rejected by D8 and D4 for the past 15 to 20 years. They will promote the AA and A approach as a solution, but think for a moment. The whole state will have to change to accommodate Rochester and that could put a serious damper on maintaining and growing the sport in Minnesota. That is where my concerns lie. I want Minnesota hockey at the youth level to survive and be there for the next generation of kids.

All the other words you see written about me personally are just trying to convince people I have another agenda. If you cant argue the facts, you act the person. I don’t have a personal agenda here.[/quote]

[BadgerBob82]

Fred: Talk about a one track mind. You are the one fixated with A level hockey. I have repeatedly stated the FACT Rochester is the only D9 association with A1, A2, B1, B2, C level youth teams and 14A, 14B, 12A, 12B, 10A and 10B girl teams. D9 doesn't offer Rochester a place to field teams at all of these levels.

Owatonna is the ONLY D9 association that plays AA level HS Hockey. (Winona does too, but they don't field A teams in D9) So of the 15 associations in D9 ONLY two play HS Hockey at AA level. AND, of the 15 associations, only TEN field A teams.

One could argue the geography of the several Districts but placing LuVerne into the mix shoots any theory you have on reducing travel.

The fact of the matter is D8 provides the best "fit" for an association of Rochester's size. Lakeville is the ONLY association in the State that fields 2 A teams at each level based on a High School boundary. Moorhead and Duluth also field 2 A teams though like Rochester they follow an A1-A2 model.

As for calling D9 teams "B teams". What I have said is D9 A teams play at a B1 level compared to the rest of the State. I don't know how anyone could argue that point. 9 of the 10 teams are ranked between 80 and 100 out of 105 PW teams. And Mankato is ranked 70th. Hardly what I would call competitive A level teams. Why wouldn't these associations drop the "A" status and play at the B1 level? Their D9 league games would still be against the same teams, except they would add a few more associations that already realized B1 hockey fits their ability. So at BEST, D9 would have 3 A teams. (Rochester, Mankato and Owatonna) And you still think Rochester, with 1,000 players, is a good fit for D9?

Fred, you do a nice job reporting PW A level games throughout the State. When you editorialize, your credibility vanishes. By not supporting and promoting the AA and A movement (Which is really the elevation of A to AA and B1 to A) you show how little you know about the development of young hockey players.

[frederick61]

Fred, you do a nice job reporting PW A level games throughout the State. When you editorialize, your credibility vanishes. By not supporting and promoting the AA and A movement (Which is really the elevation of A to AA and B1 to A) you show how little you know about the development of young hockey players.

I have the following questions:

By what time this year does an association has to decide to field AA at the peewee A level?

Can an association that fields an AA team field an A team?

There will be 32 AA teams to fill out the regionals, what 32 associations will field AA peewee teams?

Will the 32 AA teams play in district playoffs and if so for what purpose?

Who will seed the 32 teams into the regions?

Can somebody answer these questions?

BadgerBob, So every person in the state of Minnesota that does not support AA hockey is ignorant of how young hockey players develop? Wisconsin has AA and A level hockey. Does it match Minnesota in development of youth hockey based on A only?

[silentbutdeadly3139]

silentbutdeadly wrote
"I'm not trying to justify anything as I'm not associated with Rochester nor am I fixated as you are, in all honesty i could care less. But if it was driven by winning then wouldn't Red have stayed in D9 and presumably won all the time?"

Rochester joined D9 one season ago when D9 was formed from D4 and D8 teams. The new D9 locates associations more closely in an effort to cut travel costs. With gas threatening to reach $5 a gallon by the end of the year, it was a good thing to do. The new D8 which had 12 teams is basically St.Paul south and east through Lakeville and Hastings. Rochester left D8 at that time. Rochester is another 45 minute drive south on Highway 52.

D8 ended up with 12 peewee A teams this past season. D9 without Rochester and Luverne ended up with 9 teams. One problem Rochester had with D8 is that they always wanted to register both an A1 and an A2 team in D8 at the A level and D8 did not want that. Rochester tried to get D4 to take their A2 team and for one season D4 had sort of an experiment, but it didn’t work out.

Rochester Association has sold the parents that an A1 team is necessary and that team needs to play the top teams in the state. Last year, was the first year they tried that by going independent. One thing that happened is that the A1 team had to play every weekend if they could get the better teams scheduled, but with those teams playing weekend tourneys and 16 game or more district schedules, scheduling the better teams became difficult and often would force travel to cities on a week night for a single hour game.

Rochester has been promoting AA and A split because they hope it solves this problem, but I see too many problems with it at the peewee A level. In my estimation, the Rochester association has been fighting either splitting along the lines of Lakeville into two groups within an association or splitting into two associations. To appease people, they have come up with the A1 and A2 and have been rejected by D8 and D4 for the past 15 to 20 years. They will promote the AA and A approach as a solution, but think for a moment. The whole state will have to change to accommodate Rochester and that could put a serious damper on maintaining and growing the sport in Minnesota. That is where my concerns lie. I want Minnesota hockey at the youth level to survive and be there for the next generation of kids.

All the other words you see written about me personally are just trying to convince people I have another agenda. If you cant argue the facts, you act the person. I don’t have a personal agenda here.

The problem I see is you taking many other situations or events and using those to argue your Rochester issue and the AA A point. I was meerly commenting or refuting that you say D5 got better because St Cloud joined it. I said it's because the of the teams. This group of STMA players were good before St. Cloud joined D5. Some talented group of players joined MAML Peewee A this year, I believe the 1st line are all first yr players.

By the way I don't like the AA and A idea and don't think it worked very well in D10 bantams.