Should Minnesota Hockey cecede from USA Hockey?

[Blackhawkfan]

I don't have an underground bunker. I have a fish house.

ok......insert "fish house"

[Blackhawkfan]

Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota.

You forgot to mention Orlando.

sorry, wrong post responded to......

Orlando is one of the "other cities"

[Blackhawkfan]

It sure seems like it.........

So whats your angle? Not getting the training you want or need? Then you haven't looked very hard. Its here.

You still don't get it......our player received all the top end training that was ever needed and it was here in Minnesota, but it wasn't Minnesota Hockey based or governed. It was private training. That training has allowed our player to PLAY at the Elite level OUTSIDE of Minnesota Hockey and compete successfully on a larger more competitive stage.....AAA Elite Hockey. Our player would NEVER have developed to the level that he has within the Minnesota Hockey (association) model.

My whole point is that Minnesota players/families should have the freedom of choice to not only get top end training in Minnesota, but compete in the Elite AAA arena in Minnesota.

[old goalie85]

You can go to Northern Educate and play hockey and go to school @ the same time. That's right here in eagan. Have Steve coach the kid during the day/assc. coach at night. How much hockey does a kid need. Keep in mind No school football,golf ,baseball,band,student leadership groups,whatever.But one would think you get plenty of DEVELOPMENT for little jonny. Personally I love the State tourny. Chi/Mich/ ect don't have nothin on Mn. Why do you think The tourny will be filled w/scouts. Because???? why???? We have better players & more of them!!!!!!!!

[Blackhawkfan]

You can go to Northern Educate and play hockey and go to school @ the same time. That's right here in eagan. Have Steve coach the kid during the day/assc. coach at night. How much hockey does a kid need. Keep in mind No school football,golf ,baseball,band,student leadership groups,whatever.But one would think you get plenty of DEVELOPMENT for little jonny. Personally I love the State tourny. Chi/Mich/ ect don't have nothin on Mn. Why do you think The tourny will be filled w/scouts. Because???? why???? We have better players & more of them!!!!!!!!

Not sure what you are trying to say regarding "Northern Educate", no idea what that is.

Chicago, Michigan, Boston and the others (USA Hockey) has Nationals and it allows competition from Bantams on up....not just High School.


Oh yah, the Scouts are watching the Bantams too.....during the season and at Nationals

[2112]

You can go to Northern Educate and play hockey and go to school @ the same time. That's right here in eagan. Have Steve coach the kid during the day/assc. coach at night. How much hockey does a kid need. Keep in mind No school football,golf ,baseball,band,student leadership groups,whatever.But one would think you get plenty of DEVELOPMENT for little jonny. Personally I love the State tourny. Chi/Mich/ ect don't have nothin on Mn. Why do you think The tourny will be filled w/scouts. Because???? why???? We have better players & more of them!!!!!!!!

Looks like you are the example Blackhawk fan is talking about, you know nothing that is outside Minnesota but are an expert on it. Scouts at High Shool tourney, the section was usually empty from what i saw.
From the data that`s out there, around 50 Minnesota kids have been given D1 Scholarships this year and only around 8 of the 50 play High School hockey. The rest are in juniors or at the USNDTP.

[elliott70]

To make everyone happy, Minnesota Hockey should Choose to split up into two bodies, Progressive and Regressive.

Progressive – Those that want a forward looking philosophy that includes high level training, development and coaching (no parents) and yes, elite AAA teams that compete during the winter season outside the state against what are currently far superior AAA elite teams. This group would remain with USA Hockey.

Regressive- Those that want their kids to play the game like “they” used to….association based, old school, rink rat, on frozen pond, with no desire or expectation of advancing beyond the “hallowed” State High School Hockey Tournament. This group should secede from USA Hockey and stay as Minnesota Youth Hockey, with their own set of rules, most of which exist today.

By doing this, theoretically there would be no more whining, or complaining from either side. The Regressive’s would get what they want, a sheltered existence living in the past and the Progressives would get what they want, the opportunity to compete and improve.

However, somehow, the Regressive’s would still continue to whine and complain about the advancements that the Progressive’s are making and that the Progressive’s should not enjoy success but should have to endure the same misery that they (the Regressive’s) have chosen.

In a sense, Minnesota Hockey is like the old Soviet Union. The “old guard” wants to build an “iron curtain” around the state to keep the “evil” outside influence (AAA Hockey) out of the State and keep the Progressive’s from being able to have the freedom of choice to excel. The “old guard” wants to keep everything the same, the way that they want it. They believe that they know best. Progress is a dirty word.

Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level.

Wake up Minnesota, and come out from your underground bunkers and “iron curtains” and get a look at the real world of hockey!

I hope you are not thinking this is a Minnesota Hockey poll asking this.
MH is not looking at leaving USAH.

And I am sure by your comments that you have never been to a MH meeting. I can assure you options are discussed on choices. but at the same time, ways to retain the system that includes a vast majority of players looking for a 'fun' hockey season and not looking to be NHLers, college or even HS players. Trying to evolve but not lose the flavor that is MH.

[DoeBeeah DangleBerry]

You can go to Northern Educate and play hockey and go to school @ the same time. That's right here in eagan. Have Steve coach the kid during the day/assc. coach at night. How much hockey does a kid need. Keep in mind No school football,golf ,baseball,band,student leadership groups,whatever.But one would think you get plenty of DEVELOPMENT for little jonny. Personally I love the State tourny. Chi/Mich/ ect don't have nothin on Mn. Why do you think The tourny will be filled w/scouts. Because???? why???? We have better players & more of them!!!!!!!!

Looks like you are the example Blackhawk fan is talking about, you know nothing that is outside Minnesota but are an expert on it. Scouts at High Shool tourney, the section was usually empty from what i saw.
From the data that`s out there, around 50 Minnesota kids have been given D1 Scholarships this year and only around 8 of the 50 play High School hockey. The rest are in juniors or at the USNDTP.

....most of the Minnesotans playing juniors that have D-1 scholarship commitments have graduated from HS already... so nice try on that one anyway...

[spin-o-rama]

Blackhawk, not sure what you're saying.

Is it that private training is the key to getting better in MN? Work done outside association games and practices?

I think the same principle applies elsewhere. I'm sure elite players from the other 49 states all do training outside their official team events.

It really sounds like you would just like to go to nationals. That's very doable. Just billet your kid to St Louis, Chicago, Detroit, NY, etc. Just make sure you pick the right team. They all don't make it to nationals. You'll then be just like the other 49 states - all without having to move out of MN.

[Blackhawkfan]

Blackhawk, not sure what you're saying.

Is it that private training is the key to getting better in MN? Work done outside association games and practices?

I think the same principle applies elsewhere. I'm sure elite players from the other 49 states all do training outside their official team events.

It really sounds like you would just like to go to nationals. That's very doable. Just billet your kid to St Louis, Chicago, Detroit, NY, etc. Just make sure you pick the right team. They all don't make it to nationals. You'll then be just like the other 49 states - all without having to move out of MN.

What I am saying is what I said in my first post. In order to make everyone happy, Minnesota Hockey should choose to split up into two bodies, Progressive and Regressive. Let the old school, I wish things would stay the way they were in the old days, live and play in their own world. Let those that wish to be progressive and play elite hockey live and play in their world.

[old goalie85]

2112-My oldest is a 94. His teams have played in the Chi town shuffle. Also prospects tourny. My nephew/Brother lives in Utica Mich. Plays Tier 1. My pee-wee played in Chi/seven Bridges tourny. [Hosted by team Ill] My other three have not played vs those type teams but, I have an idea about what I am talking about. Is your kid out of mites yet? Five kids from Eagan highschool team have d-1 offers this year alone. Get your facts. All those kids still grew up in Mn.

[O-townClown]

Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level.

Talk about your made-up statement that is virtually impossible to respond to.

First off, it sets up a discussion about what "most Minnesota hockey" families think. I don't think there will ever be agreement on that. Someone could show you five guys that say things are better in Westchester County and then another could counter that they know six guys that prefer the player development of Minnesota's Iron Range.

We've been warned about this. Don't confuse the ability of adults to organize a strong youth team with superior player development. The level of play in Boston? What about it? They efficiently have a system to put all the best players together on the same team. St. Louis? New York? C'mon, there are VERY few top teams in those areas.

Hockey in Minnesota must be fine. People complaining on both sides. It isn't enough like USA Hockey (Jan 1st cut, club teams, participates in nationals) or it is too independent (own cutoff, community teams, eschews nationals).

[greybeard58]

D I players by state this year:

DIV I MEN
STATE 2011
MINN. 179
MICH 132
MASS 110
N.Y. 91
ILL. 59
PA. 59
CAL. 50
CT 31
WIS. 45
N.J. 33
N.H. 13
CO. 33
ALASKA 16
OHIO 36
MO 24
ME 7
RI. 8
WASH 6
TEX 14
ND 8
MD 7
IND. 7
VERMONT 8
ARIZ 16
VIRGINIA 7
FLA. 17
IOWA 4
NEV. 3
GA. 8
NC 2
ALA. 1
OR 1
IDAHO 1
MONT 0
TENN. 2
UTAH 1
NEB 6
KENTUCKY 1
OK 2
NEW MEX
WASH D.C. 1
KANSAS 1
WYOMING
LA.
S.CAR
W.VA
S.D 1
DE
TOTALS 1051

ASIA
CANADA 472
EUROPE 29
Total Players D1 1552

[Blackhawkfan]

Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level.

Talk about your made-up statement that is virtually impossible to respond to.

First off, it sets up a discussion about what "most Minnesota hockey" families think. I don't think there will ever be agreement on that. Someone could show you five guys that say things are better in Westchester County and then another could counter that they know six guys that prefer the player development of Minnesota's Iron Range.

We've been warned about this. Don't confuse the ability of adults to organize a strong youth team with superior player development. The level of play in Boston? What about it? They efficiently have a system to put all the best players together on the same team. St. Louis? New York? C'mon, there are VERY few top teams in those areas.

Hockey in Minnesota must be fine. People complaining on both sides. It isn't enough like USA Hockey (Jan 1st cut, club teams, participates in nationals) or it is too independent (own cutoff, community teams, eschews nationals).

Once again, you haven't got a clue about Boston. You people have no experience and speak like you do....keep your comments to Florida hockey.

[muckandgrind]

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!!!!!!!

[O-townClown]

Once again, you haven't got a clue about Boston. You people have no experience and speak like you do....keep your comments to Florida hockey.

How do you know what I know about youth hockey in Boston? Are all your posts this good?

The quality of play is suspect beyond the EHF.

[hockey1504]

To make everyone happy, Minnesota Hockey should Choose to split up into two bodies, Progressive and Regressive.

Progressive – Those that want a forward looking philosophy that includes high level training, development and coaching (no parents) and yes, elite AAA teams that compete during the winter season outside the state against what are currently far superior AAA elite teams. This group would remain with USA Hockey.

Regressive- Those that want their kids to play the game like “they” used to….association based, old school, rink rat, on frozen pond, with no desire or expectation of advancing beyond the “hallowed” State High School Hockey Tournament. This group should secede from USA Hockey and stay as Minnesota Youth Hockey, with their own set of rules, most of which exist today.

By doing this, theoretically there would be no more whining, or complaining from either side. The Regressive’s would get what they want, a sheltered existence living in the past and the Progressives would get what they want, the opportunity to compete and improve.

However, somehow, the Regressive’s would still continue to whine and complain about the advancements that the Progressive’s are making and that the Progressive’s should not enjoy success but should have to endure the same misery that they (the Regressive’s) have chosen.

In a sense, Minnesota Hockey is like the old Soviet Union. The “old guard” wants to build an “iron curtain” around the state to keep the “evil” outside influence (AAA Hockey) out of the State and keep the Progressive’s from being able to have the freedom of choice to excel. The “old guard” wants to keep everything the same, the way that they want it. They believe that they know best. Progress is a dirty word.

Most Minnesota hockey players and families haven’t got a clue that the quality of hockey played in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Boston, New York, and many other cities is far superior to the level of play in Minnesota. As Minnesota arrogantly sits back and ponders whether it should secede from USA Hockey, the rest of the hockey world is training, developing and competing on a whole different level.

Wake up Minnesota, and come out from your underground bunkers and “iron curtains” and get a look at the real world of hockey!

Not arguing with you completely because I do agree with some the things you are saying. BBBUUUTTTT if Minnesota is so far beyond on the development and so old school, how do we produce more NHL draft picks than any other state every single year for like a billion years running

[Outoftowner]

I like the idea of a AAA winter league. I feel we should be free to play wherever we want and find the best hockey that is appropriate for our child's interest and skill level.

It really sucks to be in an association that sucks and has no real desire to not suck. I shouldn't need to sell my house and move just to find better hockey for my kids.

[The Enlightened One]

One thing at a time. Still trying to figure out why peewees can't check

Not defending it, but I believe the reason was because they feel they lose too many kids between Squirts and PeeWees. Hopefully the same thing won't happen between PeeWees and Bantams now.

It is gonna start to happen at that split now. The injuries are going to sky rocket too at the Bantam level which is not going to be good.

[hockeyjeanious]

It's nice paying USA hockey fee for men's league in Blaine too. That's why I quit. I did make it a few years with making fake stickers for my teams helmets though....

[CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD]

I like the idea of a AAA winter league. I feel we should be free to play wherever we want and find the best hockey that is appropriate for our child's interest and skill level.

It really sucks to be in an association that sucks and has no real desire to not suck. I shouldn't need to sell my house and move just to find better hockey for my kids.

Being from Chicago now living in MN, I can say from direct knowledge that what BHF has failed to mention is that Tier I elite hockey there is only for those wishing to spend upwards of $10k per annum to play. The Tier II clubs available at costs comparable (on the high end) to what we pay here, lack experienced trainers and offer a lower level of competition. Two weeks ago I was at a Suburban Chicago rink watching their club's group of top 10 year olds scrimmage. They level of play was akin to a good C or avg B2 team in the TC metro. I just returned from the squirt tournament in Fargo,
no Chicago Metro clubs attended.

[Blackhawkfan]

I like the idea of a AAA winter league. I feel we should be free to play wherever we want and find the best hockey that is appropriate for our child's interest and skill level.

It really sucks to be in an association that sucks and has no real desire to not suck. I shouldn't need to sell my house and move just to find better hockey for my kids.

Being from Chicago now living in MN, I can say from direct knowledge that what BHF has failed to mention is that Tier I elite hockey there is only for those wishing to spend upwards of $10k per annum to play. The Tier II clubs available at costs comparable (on the high end) to what we pay here, lack experienced trainers and offer a lower level of competition. Two weeks ago I was at a Suburban Chicago rink watching their club's group of top 10 year olds scrimmage. They level of play was akin to a good C or avg B2 team in the TC metro. I just returned from the squirt tournament in Fargo,
no Chicago Metro clubs attended.

I think everyone understands that there is a cost. There is a cost for everything in life. MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT IF MINNESOTA WAS SPLIT INTO PROGRESSIVE AND REGRESSIVE, THOSE THAT WANT TO PLAY PROGRESSIVE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN THE REGRESSIVES. BUT WITH THAT, THE REGRESSIVES SHOULD KEEP THEIR COMMENTS TO THEMSELVES AND LET AAA HOCKEY SUCCEED OR FAIL BASED ON A COST/BENEFIT RATIO . QUIT TRYING TO DEMEAN THOSE THAT WISH TO SEE A HIGHER LEVEL OF HOCKEY AND COMPETE ON THE LARGER STAGE. THOSE THAT BAD MOUTH AAA FEAR THAT THEIR ASSOCIATION MODEL WILL DRY UP AND GO AWAY. IF THAT BE THE CASE, THEN SO BE IT.....THE PEOPLE THEN HAVE MADE THEIR CHOICE. IF THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS THE "BE ALL, END ALL" THEN IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAND THE CHALLENGE OF AAA HOCKEY WITH IT'S BETTER DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT WON'T, THAT IS WHY THEY WISH TO BUILD AN "IRON CURTAIN" AROUND THE STATE. JUST LIKE THE SOVIETS!!!

[silentbutdeadly3139]

I like the idea of a AAA winter league. I feel we should be free to play wherever we want and find the best hockey that is appropriate for our child's interest and skill level.

It really sucks to be in an association that sucks and has no real desire to not suck. I shouldn't need to sell my house and move just to find better hockey for my kids.

Being from Chicago now living in MN, I can say from direct knowledge that what BHF has failed to mention is that Tier I elite hockey there is only for those wishing to spend upwards of $10k per annum to play. The Tier II clubs available at costs comparable (on the high end) to what we pay here, lack experienced trainers and offer a lower level of competition. Two weeks ago I was at a Suburban Chicago rink watching their club's group of top 10 year olds scrimmage. They level of play was akin to a good C or avg B2 team in the TC metro. I just returned from the squirt tournament in Fargo,
no Chicago Metro clubs attended.

I think everyone understands that there is a cost. There is a cost for everything in life. MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT IF MINNESOTA WAS SPLIT INTO PROGRESSIVE AND REGRESSIVE, THOSE THAT WANT TO PLAY PROGRESSIVE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN THE REGRESSIVES. BUT WITH THAT, THE REGRESSIVES SHOULD KEEP THEIR COMMENTS TO THEMSELVES AND LET AAA HOCKEY SUCCEED OR FAIL BASED ON A COST/BENEFIT RATIO . QUIT TRYING TO DEMEAN THOSE THAT WISH TO SEE A HIGHER LEVEL OF HOCKEY AND COMPETE ON THE LARGER STAGE. THOSE THAT BAD MOUTH AAA FEAR THAT THEIR ASSOCIATION MODEL WILL DRY UP AND GO AWAY. IF THAT BE THE CASE, THEN SO BE IT.....THE PEOPLE THEN HAVE MADE THEIR CHOICE. IF THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS THE "BE ALL, END ALL" THEN IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAND THE CHALLENGE OF AAA HOCKEY WITH IT'S BETTER DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT WON'T, THAT IS WHY THEY WISH TO BUILD AN "IRON CURTAIN" AROUND THE STATE. JUST LIKE THE SOVIETS!!!

There is AAA ... in another state. You should move there with the other "Progressives".

[Blackhawkfan]

Being from Chicago now living in MN, I can say from direct knowledge that what BHF has failed to mention is that Tier I elite hockey there is only for those wishing to spend upwards of $10k per annum to play. The Tier II clubs available at costs comparable (on the high end) to what we pay here, lack experienced trainers and offer a lower level of competition. Two weeks ago I was at a Suburban Chicago rink watching their club's group of top 10 year olds scrimmage. They level of play was akin to a good C or avg B2 team in the TC metro. I just returned from the squirt tournament in Fargo,
no Chicago Metro clubs attended.

I think everyone understands that there is a cost. There is a cost for everything in life. MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT IF MINNESOTA WAS SPLIT INTO PROGRESSIVE AND REGRESSIVE, THOSE THAT WANT TO PLAY PROGRESSIVE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN THE REGRESSIVES. BUT WITH THAT, THE REGRESSIVES SHOULD KEEP THEIR COMMENTS TO THEMSELVES AND LET AAA HOCKEY SUCCEED OR FAIL BASED ON A COST/BENEFIT RATIO . QUIT TRYING TO DEMEAN THOSE THAT WISH TO SEE A HIGHER LEVEL OF HOCKEY AND COMPETE ON THE LARGER STAGE. THOSE THAT BAD MOUTH AAA FEAR THAT THEIR ASSOCIATION MODEL WILL DRY UP AND GO AWAY. IF THAT BE THE CASE, THEN SO BE IT.....THE PEOPLE THEN HAVE MADE THEIR CHOICE. IF THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS THE "BE ALL, END ALL" THEN IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAND THE CHALLENGE OF AAA HOCKEY WITH IT'S BETTER DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT WON'T, THAT IS WHY THEY WISH TO BUILD AN "IRON CURTAIN" AROUND THE STATE. JUST LIKE THE SOVIETS!!!

There is AAA ... in another state. You should move there with the other "Progressives".

You should move to the Moon

[old goalie85]

What kind of development do you get on the moon??? Progressive/Regressive??????