Class A Rankings 2-12-12

[HShockeywatcher]

Well, a couple teams just had to go and make things interesting this week. There are really many different ways the 3-8 spots could go. I don't know that TRF is deserving of the 3 spot, but no one else is right now either. Should be a good week. Unfortunately, there are many games this week that end up being meaningless games because of what is already determined.

1. Hermantown (23-0) [14-0]
The Hawks continue to dominate lower teams on their schedule. They play two teams that are similar in ranking, but neither will likely put up a good fight for the Hawks. Hermantown will likely be the home team in every game they play for the rest of the season.
This week: Tues vs Little Falls, Fri vs Hibbing

2. St Thomas Academy (17-5) [11-0]
The Cadets secured the top spot in section 4A and second place in the Classic Suburban Conference with a convincing with over Mahtomedi. They round out their season with a 350 mile trek up to Roseau. Hopefully that helps them prepare for their section games and state.
This week: Tues vs Simley, Thurs @ North St Paul, Sat @ Roseau

3. Thief River Falls (17-4-2) [14-2-1]
This may be too high for the Prowlers, but we’ll see how they do with their away games this week. Can they keep the top seed in section 8A; will we get a TRF/STA rematch at state this year?
This week: Tues @ East Grand Forks, Fri @ Bemidji

4. Duluth Marshall (18-6) [14-4]
The Hilltoppers are doing well at the moment and with some upsets could get a nice seed at state. They appear to be a borderline seeded team. Having lost to Breck, if there are no upsets, Marshall will most likely not be seeded at state. They play a team this week that is hoping to be one of those upset stories, can they keep the winning going?
This week: Sat vs St Cloud Cathedral

5. Totino-Grace (15-8 ) [11-5]
The Eagles hopped Blake with their win over Breck by the same margin Blake lost to them. Getting shut out by Benilde isn’t great, but they don’t have to worry about play them to make it to state. Definitely the 2 seed in 4A and I doubt anyone is counting them out to upset the Cadets; should be a great section tournament.
This week: Tues @ Spring Lake Park, Sat @ Rochester Lourdes

6. Breck (19-3) [15-2]
This is probably a little low for the Mustangs as they will most likely be seeded if they make it out of sections, but with moving TRF up, it didn’t make sense for them to be any higher than here. Can they close out the season with 3 wins in their remaining 3 away games? I have a feeling they’re score a couple on Shattuck, but I suspect their bad defense will be their demise on Tuesday.
This week: Tues @ Shattuck-St Mary’s, Thurs @ St Paul Academy, Sat @ Blake

7. Rochester Lourdes (17-7) [12-5]
I really don’t like the Eagles this high, but they beat Blake and Rogers this week, so where should they be? They likely won’t win their first round game at the X if New Prague doesn’t stop them from getting there, but they scored 3 on Breck, so they will play with anyone. How will they do against Totino this week?
This week: Sat vs Totino-Grace

8. Blake (16-7) [15-2]
The Bears had a good week, but dropped because Breck dropped. They played Breck will away the first time around. They get another crack at them this week, but the third match up will be the one that really matters.
This week: Tues @ St Paul Como Park, Sat vs Breck

9. St Cloud Cathedral (18-4) [18-4]
Cathedral is in an interesting situation with their schedule. They have one loss in their last 13 games; to Hermantown by 1. They have 3 away games this week, Tuesday they can claim the #2 seed in the section and a win on Saturday would make them likely seeded if they can upset Hermantown. Should be a good week for the Crusaders.
This week: Tues @ Rogers, Thurs @ Orono, Sat @ Duluth Marshall

10. Mahtomedi (13-10) [9-5]
The Zephyrs had one game this past week and they lost to one of the top teams. Should be an easy week to get a couple more wins and go into sections as the 3 seed.
This week: Tues vs Richfield, Thurs vs South St Paul

11. Hibbing/Chisholm (13-9) [11-3]
Hibbing showed this week they can definitely play with anyone with their win over Grand Rapids, but it is hard to bump them much higher than this. They should win their last home game of the season Tuesday and should play a good game with Hermantown Friday.
This week: Tues vs Virginia, Fri @ Hermantown

12. East Grand Forks (15-8 ) [11-3]
The Green Wave could definitely be many spots higher as they have a win over #5 tonight. A home game this week to determine if they’ll be the #1 or #2 seed in 8A and then a trip north to see if they can beat a team TRF hasn’t beaten this season.
This week: Tues vs Thief River Falls, Thurs @ Roseau

13. Warroad (12-11-1) [7-7]
You have to go back 4 years to see an 8A final that wasn’t TRF/Warroad and back 11 years to find a year Warroad wasn’t in the section final. Will this be the first time in 11 years or will they upset their way in?
This week: Tues @ Lake of the Woods

14. Delano (17-6) [13-5]
The Tigers should win at least one game and possibly two. With Breck’s recent loss, Delano would love to swoop in and hit the 2A private schools at the right time to make a state berth.
This week: Tues vs Hutchinson, Fri @ Holy Family Catholic

15. Rogers (16-6-1) [7-6]
The Royals played a close game with Hermantown the first time around, regardless of the outcome of the game on Tuesday, Rogers and Cathedral will play again for the opportunity to play Hermantown in the section finals.
This week: Tues vs St Cloud Cathedral, Thurs @ St Michael-Albertville

[blueblood]

Blake might be a bit high and Delano a bit low, but having seen most of the top class A teams this season, not bad HSHW...

[Prowlerhockey]

I like TRF at #3...I think they will come out with a purpose on Tuesdays game against EGF...and even more of a purpose in the section Championship again against EGF...that is if warroad doesn't upset EGF in the simi finals...my heart believes that TRF will come out the 8A champions and make that awesome trip to st.paul to possibly get a rematch against STA...either way,it will be a terrific week of class A hockey

[rainier]

I like the rankings. It is tough to put Breck at #6, but TRF deserves #3 (I don't think an OT loss to Roseau should weigh very heavily). I could see putting Breck #4 while dropping Marshall to #5 and having T-G #6.

What I find most interesting is that many of the top teams have legitimate foes in their sections.

Lourdes-New Prague
Herm-SCC
STA-T-G
Marshall-Hibbing (or I-Falls)
TRF-EGF (or Warroad)

Sure, it would be an upset for any of these top teams to fall, but would anyone be utterly shocked if one of these underdogs made it to the X?

[TTpuckster]

I like TRF at #3...I think they will come out with a purpose on Tuesdays game against EGF...and even more of a purpose in the section Championship again against EGF...that is if warroad doesn't upset EGF in the simi finals...my heart believes that TRF will come out the 8A champions and make that awesome trip to st.paul to possibly get a rematch against STA...either way,it will be a terrific week of class A hockey

You might be a little biased, PROWLERHOCKEY.

[Prowlerhockey]

I like TRF at #3...I think they will come out with a purpose on Tuesdays game against EGF...and even more of a purpose in the section Championship again against EGF...that is if warroad doesn't upset EGF in the simi finals...my heart believes that TRF will come out the 8A champions and make that awesome trip to st.paul to possibly get a rematch against STA...either way,it will be a terrific week of class A hockey

You might be a little biased, PROWLERHOCKEY.

Possibly a little bit...but I'm also really proud of my home team...don't get me wrong,the games with TRF and EGF could go either way...what I was saying in a way was that regardless what happens with the game on tuesday,TRF and EGF will more then likely square off in the 8A championship game,unless warroad can come up with some upsets in the section tournament which is also very possible...EGF is a good team this year,but they don't have very good discipline...it's going to be a good game on Tuesday and an awesome section tournament!!

[HShockeywatcher]

I like TRF at #3...I think they will come out with a purpose on Tuesdays game against EGF...and even more of a purpose in the section Championship again against EGF...that is if warroad doesn't upset EGF in the simi finals...my heart believes that TRF will come out the 8A champions and make that awesome trip to st.paul to possibly get a rematch against STA...either way,it will be a terrific week of class A hockey

You might be a little biased, PROWLERHOCKEY.

Possibly a little bit...but I'm also really proud of my home team...don't get me wrong,the games with TRF and EGF could go either way...what I was saying in a way was that regardless what happens with the game on tuesday,TRF and EGF will more then likely square off in the 8A championship game,unless warroad can come up with some upsets in the section tournament which is also very possible...EGF is a good team this year,but they don't have very good discipline...it's going to be a good game on Tuesday and an awesome section tournament!!

EGF did beat a TG team that TRF lost to...

[Prowlerhockey]

You might be a little biased, PROWLERHOCKEY.

Possibly a little bit...but I'm also really proud of my home team...don't get me wrong,the games with TRF and EGF could go either way...what I was saying in a way was that regardless what happens with the game on tuesday,TRF and EGF will more then likely square off in the 8A championship game,unless warroad can come up with some upsets in the section tournament which is also very possible...EGF is a good team this year,but they don't have very good discipline...it's going to be a good game on Tuesday and an awesome section tournament!!

EGF did beat a TG team that TRF lost to...

EGF also lost to bemidji that TRF beat... So what's your point??

[KICKED-IN-THE-PRIVATES]

Hermantown doesn't need to worry about going 25-0, they need to be concerned with staying healthy....

And eligible!!

Hermantown vs. SCC should be the section final of the year!!!!

[rainier]

Hermantown doesn't need to worry about going 25-0, they need to be concerned with staying healthy....

And eligible!!

Hermantown vs. SCC should be the section final of the year!!!!

Eligible? Is there something to this or is this a wishful thinking rumor by an SCC fan?

[blacklung]

Hermantown doesn't need to worry about going 25-0, they need to be concerned with staying healthy....

And eligible!!

Hermantown vs. SCC should be the section final of the year!!!!

Eligible? Is there something to this or is this a wishful thinking rumor by an SCC fan?

The whole post is wishful thinking!
Why would Herm not be "eligible" K-I-T-P?? Their too good to play in the MSHSL? lol
I don't think Hermantown is worried about anything.

[Goldy23]

Breck at #6? Even after the likely thumping they will take from the trip to SSM tomorrow night, they are deserving of a top three spot every bit as much as uniforms from St. Paul.

DMRSL? Breck has a better record and they beat them handily at the beginging of the year.

Class A will be won this year by STA, Breck or most likely, Hermantown if they can finally find a way to beat either one of the Twin Cities private powehouses at the X. (Something they haven't been able to do for a few years)

[KICKED-IN-THE-PRIVATES]

Hermantown doesn't need to worry about going 25-0, they need to be concerned with staying healthy....

And eligible!!

Hermantown vs. SCC should be the section final of the year!!!!

Eligible? Is there something to this or is this a wishful thinking rumor by an SCC fan?

The whole post is wishful thinking!
Why would Herm not be "eligible" K-I-T-P?? Their too good to play in the MSHSL? lol
I don't think Hermantown is worried about anything.

I'm talkin' about fightin', you know.. taking a poke at the recent brawl with Denfield. Nothing Academically.....

[4thlineproblems]

Great rankings HSHW. I agree that TRF should be ranked #3 based on the scores, but i do not think they are the 3rd best team in the state. I believe that Breck, TG, and possibly DM are better than them. My power rankings for the top 5 would be:
1: Hermantown
2: STA
3: Breck
4: TG
5: TRF/DM

Like last year i believe this will be a very deep state tourney field. I really hope Herm and STA can meet again so we can see who is really better on the ice instead of arguing about it on a message board.

[weaksauce]

Now what.....

Breck ties SSM 3-3

St. Thomas loses to SSM 4-2

Benilde loses to SSM 5-3


Breck has a difficult time with all players play 100% every shift. Otherwise, they would be #1. I think seniors already have 2 State titles and aren't hungry to work every shift and try to be too cute with puck.

[HShockeywatcher]

Hermantown has 3 shut outs in a row now (albeit to Denfeld, RW and LF) and allowed one goal to Cloquet the game before. They have already overtaken St Thomas in the ushsho while being .01 behind Breck and are close to St Thomas in PageStat (without the LF game in there). Hopefully their defense is here to stay and they can keep this streak going into playoffs.

Has anyone ever shut every opponent out in sectional play?

[rainier]

Hermantown has 3 shut outs in a row now (albeit to Denfeld, RW and LF) and allowed one goal to Cloquet the game before. They have already overtaken St Thomas in the ushsho while being .01 behind Breck and are close to St Thomas in PageStat (without the LF game in there). Hopefully their defense is here to stay and they can keep this streak going into playoffs.

Has anyone ever shut every opponent out in sectional play?

Hibbing came very close last year, beating Silver Bay 9-0, Central 5-1, and Virginia 5-0. (And they shut out Lourdes 4-0 in state tourney quarters.)

Very tough to do, but Hermantown has the defense and goaltending to do it.

[blacklung]

Hermantown has 3 shut outs in a row now (albeit to Denfeld, RW and LF) and allowed one goal to Cloquet the game before. They have already overtaken St Thomas in the ushsho while being .01 behind Breck and are close to St Thomas in PageStat (without the LF game in there). Hopefully their defense is here to stay and they can keep this streak going into playoffs.
Has anyone ever shut every opponent out in sectional play?

Hibbing came very close last year, beating Silver Bay 9-0, Central 5-1, and Virginia 5-0. (And they shut out Lourdes 4-0 in state tourney quarters.)

Very tough to do, but Hermantown has the defense and goaltending to do it.

HSHW, Herm's defense was never gone in the first place...

[HShockeywatcher]

Hermantown has 3 shut outs in a row now (albeit to Denfeld, RW and LF) and allowed one goal to Cloquet the game before. They have already overtaken St Thomas in the ushsho while being .01 behind Breck and are close to St Thomas in PageStat (without the LF game in there). Hopefully their defense is here to stay and they can keep this streak going into playoffs.
Has anyone ever shut every opponent out in sectional play?

Hibbing came very close last year, beating Silver Bay 9-0, Central 5-1, and Virginia 5-0. (And they shut out Lourdes 4-0 in state tourney quarters.)

Very tough to do, but Hermantown has the defense and goaltending to do it.

HSHW, Herm's defense was never gone in the first place...

Well, obviously they weren't playing games with just 3 forwards and a goalie, but they were allowing more goals than a defense as good as theirs supposed is should be.

I never said they were bad, just commenting on the goals they have been allowing to the teams they have been playing. That's all.

[PuckRanger]

Hibbing came very close last year, beating Silver Bay 9-0, Central 5-1, and Virginia 5-0. (And they shut out Lourdes 4-0 in state tourney quarters.)

Very tough to do, but Hermantown has the defense and goaltending to do it.

HSHW, Herm's defense was never gone in the first place...

Well, obviously they weren't playing games with just 3 forwards and a goalie, but they were allowing more goals than a defense as good as theirs supposed is should be.

I never said they were bad, just commenting on the goals they have been allowing to the teams they have been playing. That's all.

I never agreed with you on that point and I still don't. They gave up more than three goals one time this year (and that was to Bemidji in a game they won 10-4 in running time). In fact, they have allowed a goal or less in 15 of their 24 games and two or less in 19 of them. It just doesn't get much better than that.

[HShockeywatcher]

HSHW, Herm's defense was never gone in the first place...

Well, obviously they weren't playing games with just 3 forwards and a goalie, but they were allowing more goals than a defense as good as theirs supposed is should be.

I never said they were bad, just commenting on the goals they have been allowing to the teams they have been playing. That's all.

I never agreed with you on that point and I still don't. They gave up more than three goals one time this year (and that was to Bemidji in a game they won 10-4 in running time). In fact, they have allowed a goal or less in 15 of their 24 games and two or less in 19 of them. It just doesn't get much better than that.

You're right; you and two other have repeated over and over that SOS doesn't matter and "it doesn't get much better than" doing all right against mediocre competition and saying you would play with top competition in the state? Check the AA rankings thread as well. People outside of Hermantown and Eagan understand that SOS/who you play matters. Plain and simple, if you are playing lesser competition you need to do much better against them.

Find a dictionary and look up the word defense. No where will it say "the best defense is a good offense" or anything to that effect. Saying they have good defense because they scored a lot doesn't make sense.

These aren't some new age philosophies I'm trying to make up to make a team look bad. I'm pointing out things that based on the results of their games are accepted practice in sports.

LF went on a tear for a while allowing 6 goals in 11 games but was dismissed by most because it was against easy opponents. Somehow, Hermantown is allowed to do the same thing for some reason and not follow the same logic others have to.

It's a crazy world we live in

[cooperalls4ever]

I'll clear things up (maybe) but I know that Hermantown's Defensemen play a pretty offensive game, but have been without a D who has been out since Nov. They've been playing mainly 2 sets of D 2/3 of the season with D #4 and 5 rotating in with one of the "top 3" from what I've seen. Against Red Wing 2 forwards (from 2nd line?) were out. I know I saw LeBlanc playing forward, he was back @ D last night. The last few games they have been getting that sixth defensemen some icetime so I'd consider the defensive crew at 'full-strength' for the first time all year-just in time for the playoff run.

No secret (from Hermantown coaches or players) that the second meeting in Superior was their worst game of the year and probably should've lost. Superior then got into a short-handed situation (to be generous). But we can look at D. East's results with Superior also and maybe Superior either a) isn't that far off or b)just matched up and did the right things against these teams.

I missed the Totino Grace@Hermantown Sat. game in Dec., but 17 shots for Hermantown to ZERO in period 1 is pretty defensive. Note on this game, Hermantown also had a game in Hopkins the night before and TG played that Thurs. So "road legs" excuses for the road team isn't valid for this one. Missing the game, I can't draw conclusions on whether TG came out incredibly flat or Hermantown was just that dominant but I'd say a little of both.

[PuckRanger]

You're right; you and two other have repeated over and over that SOS doesn't matter and "it doesn't get much better than" doing all right against mediocre competition and saying you would play with top competition in the state? Check the AA rankings thread as well. People outside of Hermantown and Eagan understand that SOS/who you play matters. Plain and simple, if you are playing lesser competition you need to do much better against them.

SOS isn't the issue here, and I never said it doesn't matter at all. Hermantown has a pretty good schedule for class A. Do you realize that if you plugged Hill into Hermantown's schedule twice that Hermantown would have a stronger SOS on Pagestat than STA? Thats right, the only difference in their SOS rankings is 1 or 2 games against good AA opponents - that's it.

And for the record, I am not a Hermantown fan. Far from it. In fact, where I live, I would probably be hung if I were.

Find a dictionary and look up the word defense. No where will it say "the best defense is a good offense" or anything to that effect. Saying they have good defense because they scored a lot doesn't make sense.

I never mentioned offense, in fact I pointed out a very good defensive record. And for the record, a good offense will certainly help with the defense... and I no longer own a dictionary.

These aren't some new age philosophies I'm trying to make up to make a team look bad. I'm pointing out things that based on the results of their games are accepted practice in sports.

No, the philosophies are not new age, but your application of the principles to them appears to be.

LF went on a tear for a while allowing 6 goals in 11 games but was dismissed by most because it was against easy opponents. Somehow, Hermantown is allowed to do the same thing for some reason and not follow the same logic others have to.

Little Falls went from unranked to ranked, so that was not dismissed. They also lost a handful of games and are not undefeated which is why they aren't relevant to this discussion.

It's a crazy world we live in

And its grand chancelor is you!

All kidding aside, my main point is that Hermantown has been outright stingy on defense almost every game, but you chose to harp on 2 or 3 games that they had well in hand where they gave up 3 or 4 goals (note, not 6 or 7) when it was all said and done.

When you allow a goal or less in 15 games, its no fluke - and Hermantown does not have 15 cupcake teams on its schedule. Hermantown has allowed less than a goal and a half (1.48 to be exact) per game throughout the ENTIRE SEASON, not just against the likes of Ashland, Proctor, Crookston, and Monticello.

While you were quick to jump on them for allowing a pretty good Bemidji team to score 4 times on them earlier this year, you still only acknowledge their past couple games as being sound defensively. Here is what I, along with several others, saw that you ignored...

Rogers: Allowed 1 goal
Virginia: Allowed 1 goal
Denfeld: Allowed 2 goals total in 2 games
Duluth Marshall: Allowed 1 goal
International Falls: Allowed 1 goal
St. Cloud Cathedral: Allowed 1 goal
Grand Rapids: Allowed 2 goals
Little Falls: Shutout
Cloquet: Allowed 1 goal

There is 10 games against some pretty good teams with a total of 10 goals allowed. You will be hard pressed to find another team that will do that against those same teams. That doesn't even include the Totino game where they allowed ZERO shots on goal in the entire first period. Yet, this is suspect defense and is apparently "devalued" because they did not play Duluth East and Hill-Murray twice.

[blacklung]

You're right; you and two other have repeated over and over that SOS doesn't matter and "it doesn't get much better than" doing all right against mediocre competition and saying you would play with top competition in the state? Check the AA rankings thread as well. People outside of Hermantown and Eagan understand that SOS/who you play matters. Plain and simple, if you are playing lesser competition you need to do much better against them.

SOS isn't the issue here, and I never said it doesn't matter at all. Hermantown has a pretty good schedule for class A. Do you realize that if you plugged Hill into Hermantown's schedule twice that Hermantown would have a stronger SOS on Pagestat than STA? Thats right, the only difference in their SOS rankings is 1 or 2 games against good AA opponents - that's it.


And for the record, I am not a Hermantown fan. Far from it. In fact, where I live, I would probably be hung if I were.

Find a dictionary and look up the word defense. No where will it say "the best defense is a good offense" or anything to that effect. Saying they have good defense because they scored a lot doesn't make sense.

I never mentioned offense, in fact I pointed out a very good defensive record. And for the record, a good offense will certainly help with the defense... and I no longer own a dictionary.

These aren't some new age philosophies I'm trying to make up to make a team look bad. I'm pointing out things that based on the results of their games are accepted practice in sports.

No, the philosophies are not new age, but your application of the principles to them appears to be.

LF went on a tear for a while allowing 6 goals in 11 games but was dismissed by most because it was against easy opponents. Somehow, Hermantown is allowed to do the same thing for some reason and not follow the same logic others have to.

Little Falls went from unranked to ranked, so that was not dismissed. They also lost a handful of games and are not undefeated which is why they aren't relevant to this discussion.

It's a crazy world we live in

And its grand chancelor is you!

All kidding aside, my main point is that Hermantown has been outright stingy on defense almost every game, but you chose to harp on 2 or 3 games that they had well in hand where they gave up 3 or 4 goals (note, not 6 or 7) when it was all said and done.

When you allow a goal or less in 15 games, its no fluke - and Hermantown does not have 15 cupcake teams on its schedule. Hermantown has allowed less than a goal and a half (1.48 to be exact) per game throughout the ENTIRE SEASON, not just against the likes of Ashland, Proctor, Crookston, and Monticello.

While you were quick to jump on them for allowing a pretty good Bemidji team to score 4 times on them earlier this year, you still only acknowledge their past couple games as being sound defensively. Here is what I, along with several others, saw that you ignored...

Rogers: Allowed 1 goal
Virginia: Allowed 1 goal
Denfeld: Allowed 2 goals total in 2 games
Duluth Marshall: Allowed 1 goal
International Falls: Allowed 1 goal
St. Cloud Cathedral: Allowed 1 goal
Grand Rapids: Allowed 2 goals
Little Falls: Shutout
Cloquet: Allowed 1 goal

There is 10 games against some pretty good teams with a total of 10 goals allowed. You will be hard pressed to find another team that will do that against those same teams. That doesn't even include the Totino game where they allowed ZERO shots on goal in the entire first period. Yet, this is suspect defense and is apparently "devalued" because they did not play Duluth East and Hill-Murray twice.

[HShockeywatcher]

Watch this-
Lourdes: 1 goal
SSP: 1 goal in 2 games
Tartan: 1 goal in 2 games
Holy Family: shutout
Totino: shutout
Breck: 2 goals
Maht: 4 goals in 2 games

Ta-da! 9 goals in 10 games with 4 times as many shut outs as you listed against teams just as good/better than the "pretty good" teams you listed.

Amazing what you can do when you pick and choose what you stats you look at.

To what you said:
1a. I didn't realize that because the math doesn't justify it. Just like how I redid all of the math for taking MG/Tonka off Edina's schedule, adding one team to a schedule once or twice doesn't change the overall SOS that much. It's a pattern.
1b. Then they should schedule better teams. I'm not commenting on my opinion of the people on the team, just the teams they play.

2. Using running time as a way to defend giving up a lot of goals isn't bringing up offense?

3. Just applying them the same way others have applied them to other teams in the past.

Anyway, I'll keep complementing Hermantown and getting put down for it