2011-12 KRACH RANKINGS - FINAL - Updated 02/26

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:24 pm

Jan 19, NP defeated Holy Angels 2-1

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:06 pm

hockeydad wrote:Jan 19, NP defeated Holy Angels 2-1

Thanks!

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:50 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 21, 2012
Rochester John Marshall 1 vs. Rochester Century 7
Shakopee 5 vs. Eastview 2
North Wright County 5 vs. Wayzata 4
Holy Family Catholic/Waconia 9 vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L 4
St. Paul United 9 vs. St. Paul Blades 0
New Ulm 1 vs. Austin 4
Forest Lake 2 vs. Roseville 6
Faribault vs. Rochester Mayo – Mayo played Mound-Westonka instead
Mounds View 2 vs. White Bear Lake 2

Thu, January 19, 2012
Austin vs. Owatonna - Don't think this game was played???
Holy Angels 1 vs. New Prague 2

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:35 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

NONE

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:13 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Tue, January 24, 2012
Holy Family Catholic/Waconia vs. Hutchinson
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area
Lakeville South 4 vs. Rosemount 0
Mound-Westonka 2 vs. Rogers 3

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:17 pm

ghshockeyfan wrote:Most Recent Ranking Links:
==========================================
OVERALL:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA.htm

ghshockeyfan,

Looking at the latest KRACH compared to QRF, there are some pretty big differences. At this late point in the season I thought the two would be a little closer.

For example, in the Overall, Anoka is 2nd in QRF but 4th in KRACH.
Meanwhile, Breck is 2nd in KRACH but only 5th in QRF.
Hill-Murray is also ranked quite a bit higher in KRACH (3rd) compared to QRF (6th).

Just wondering, can these differences be explained to someone who wasn't a statistics major?

As I recall the biggest difference between the two systems used to be that QRF took the scores (or score differential) into account whereas KRACH only considered wins and losses. But didn't QRF change their model before the season started to give less weight to scores?

And which of the two places more weight on strength of schedule?

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:45 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote:Most Recent Ranking Links:
==========================================
OVERALL:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA.htm
ghshockeyfan,

Looking at the latest KRACH compared to QRF, there are some pretty big differences. At this late point in the season I thought the two would be a little closer.

For example, in the Overall, Anoka is 2nd in QRF but 4th in KRACH.
Meanwhile, Breck is 2nd in KRACH but only 5th in QRF.
Hill-Murray is also ranked quite a bit higher in KRACH (3rd) compared to QRF (6th).

Just wondering, can these differences be explained to someone who wasn't a statistics major?

As I recall the biggest difference between the two systems used to be that QRF took the scores (or score differential) into account whereas KRACH only considered wins and losses. But didn't QRF change their model before the season started to give less weight to scores?

And which of the two places more weight on strength of schedule?

Interesting to say the least. My take is that I don't have enough insight into the QRF model anymore to understand what it is doing. At one time it had a higher weight on Class, and also looked at score differential. Also, it put more weight on the recent games I believe. I don't know exactly how it was changed and so it's hard for me to tell why the differences exist between QRF and KRACH.

I have intentionally ensured that KRACH and QRF use the exact same data set for calculation - assuming they run the rankings calculation at nearly the same time (meaning, no one submits a score after the other one was calculated as this would imply a difference in data sets).

So, the differences should be in the algorithms. Now if I only knew how QRF works... Maybe I'll start asking MN Scores some questions and see what info. they can provide...

Key note - I just re-ran KRACH now to map to the current QRF data set for today 25Jan... Maybe that brought some things into greater alignment... I haven't checked - but was planning on doing a composite ranking of LPH, QRF, and KRACH soon to see where they differ most.

Bandy · Post by **Bandy** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:51 am

ghshockeyfan wrote: ... So, the differences should be in the algorithms...

Yes, and I see nothing wrong with the fact that the three algorithms yield slightly different results.

My favorite ranking is the average of LPH, QRF, and KRACH rankings, which is essentially a miniature multi-model ensemble. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_forecasting

In modeling & forecasting, average of multiple (good) models yields better predictions than any single algorithm.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:09 am

No Score Reported for These Games:

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:55 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Fri, January 27, 2012
Windom Area vs. Fairmont
Cretin-Derham Hall vs. East Ridge

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:45 am

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Moose Lake Area vs. International Falls
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury
Eagan vs. Rosemount
St. Paul Blades vs. St. Paul United
Lakeville South vs. Eastview
Princeton vs. LPGE/WDC
Orono vs. Hutchinson
Park of Cottage Grove vs. Mounds View

Fri, January 27, 2012
Windom Area vs. Fairmont
Cretin-Derham Hall vs. East Ridge

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:16 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury
St. Paul Blades vs. St. Paul United
Princeton vs. LPGE/WDC
Lakeville South 3 vs. Eastview 0
Park of Cottage Grove vs. Mounds View

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:42 pm

Bandy wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote: ... So, the differences should be in the algorithms...
Yes, and I see nothing wrong with the fact that the three algorithms yield slightly different results.

My favorite ranking is the average of LPH, QRF, and KRACH rankings, which is essentially a miniature multi-model ensemble. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_forecasting

In modeling & forecasting, average of multiple (good) models yields better predictions than any single algorithm.

An average probably is the best predictor, but the nice thing about High School sports is we have a tournament to decide our best team. So rankings really are meaningless as the best teams will show themselves along the way.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:54 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
Bandy wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote: ... So, the differences should be in the algorithms...
Yes, and I see nothing wrong with the fact that the three algorithms yield slightly different results.

My favorite ranking is the average of LPH, QRF, and KRACH rankings, which is essentially a miniature multi-model ensemble. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_forecasting

In modeling & forecasting, average of multiple (good) models yields better predictions than any single algorithm.
An average probably is the best predictor, but the nice thing about High School sports is we have a tournament to decide our best team. So rankings really are meaningless as the best teams will show themselves along the way.

Agreed 100% with both of these posts!!! The game is still played on the ice - as it should be an not on paper or by rankings, etc. Rankings are just for fun and to possibly help with seeding. Removes the bias of humans when a computer is involved (outside of the human that set up the ranking algorithm, that is

) The only flaw with our current system is that the top two teams could end up playing in a section vs state final. That would be unfortunate outside of the fact that some could argue that the atmosphere at a packed section final could rival a state tourney final in an empty X.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:06 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury
St. Paul Blades vs. St. Paul United
Princeton vs. LPGE/WDC
Park of Cottage Grove vs. Mounds View

Thu, January 26, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

livin' in the 651 · Post by **livin' in the 651** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:28 am

ghshockeyfan wrote:No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury
St. Paul Blades vs. St. Paul United
Princeton vs. LPGE/WDC
Lakeville South 3 vs. Eastview 0
Park of Cottage Grove vs. Mounds View

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

MV3, Park 1

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:46 am

livin' in the 651 wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote:No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury
St. Paul Blades vs. St. Paul United
Princeton vs. LPGE/WDC
Lakeville South 3 vs. Eastview 0
Park of Cottage Grove vs. Mounds View

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area
MV3, Park 1

Thanks!

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:47 am

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:33 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
Fairmont vs. St. Peter/L-H/M-L
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg
Forest Lake vs. Woodbury

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Tue, January 24, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Morris/Benson Area

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:08 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Sat, January 28, 2012
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:30 pm

No Score Reported for These Games:

Tue, January 31, 2012
Albert Lea vs. Mankato West
Rosemount vs. Eastview
Owatonna vs. Winona

Sat, January 28, 2012
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg

Thu, January 26, 2012
Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato vs. Morris/Benson Area
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:12 am

Missing Scores:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/scorebo ... &sport=110

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27318

http://www.minnesota-scores.net/email.php

***Or*** you can call or text 218-422-MINN (6466)
and leave all of the important information.

Important Info includes:
Game Date
Sport
Visitor Team*/Score
Home Team*/Score
*Please include the STATE if the team is not from Minnesota!

No Score Reported for These Games:

Thursday, February 2, 2012
St. Cloud vs. Alexandria
5:15 PM at Alexandria
Breck vs. Blake
7:30 PM at Blake
Proctor/Hermantown vs. Duluth
6:00 PM at Duluth
Crookston vs. East Grand Forks
7:30 PM at East Grand Forks
Buffalo vs. Hutchinson
7:00 PM at Hutchinson
Eveleth-Gilbert vs. International Falls
7:30 PM at International Falls
Pequot Lakes vs. LPGE/WDC
7:00 PM at Wadena
Eden Prairie vs. Minnetonka
7:00 PM at Minnetonka
North Wright County vs. Moorhead
7:30 PM at Moorhead
Red Wing vs. New Prague
7:15 PM at New Prague
Rochester Mayo vs. Owatonna
7:00 PM at Owatonna
Thief River Falls vs. Park Rapids Area
7:30 PM at Park Rapids
Fergus Falls vs. River Lakes
7:00 PM at Paynesville, MN
Benilde-St. Margaret's vs. Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill
7:30 PM at Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill
Totino-Grace vs. St. Francis/North Branch
7:00 PM at St. Francis/North Branch
Moose Lake Area vs. Webster
7:00 PM at Webster
Brainerd/Little Falls vs. Willmar
7:00 PM at Willmar
Rochester Century vs. Winona
7:30 PM at Winona

Tue, January 31, 2012
Albert Lea vs. Mankato West
Rosemount vs. Eastview

Sat, January 28, 2012
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg

Thu, January 26, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Most Recent Ranking Links:
==========================================
OVERALL:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA.htm
CLASS AA:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA.htm
CLASS A:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A.htm
SECTION:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC.htm
SOS (Strength-Of-Schedule) is at:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS.htm
==========================================

Past rankings are at:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

Also see MN Hockey Hub for rankings and more info.:
http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/page/sh ... h-rankings

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:17 am

I look at the list of "Missing Scores" above and realize that it probably doesn't make sense to run KRACH until the early AM as then enough scores would be in to actually make it worthwhile... Looks like most of these get entered between midnight and 7AM...

ghshockeyfan wrote:Missing Scores:

No Score Reported for These Games:

Thursday, February 2, 2012
St. Cloud vs. Alexandria
5:15 PM at Alexandria
Breck vs. Blake
7:30 PM at Blake
Proctor/Hermantown vs. Duluth
6:00 PM at Duluth
Crookston vs. East Grand Forks
7:30 PM at East Grand Forks
Buffalo vs. Hutchinson
7:00 PM at Hutchinson
Eveleth-Gilbert vs. International Falls
7:30 PM at International Falls
Pequot Lakes vs. LPGE/WDC
7:00 PM at Wadena
Eden Prairie vs. Minnetonka
7:00 PM at Minnetonka
North Wright County vs. Moorhead
7:30 PM at Moorhead
Red Wing vs. New Prague
7:15 PM at New Prague
Rochester Mayo vs. Owatonna
7:00 PM at Owatonna
Thief River Falls vs. Park Rapids Area
7:30 PM at Park Rapids
Fergus Falls vs. River Lakes
7:00 PM at Paynesville, MN
Benilde-St. Margaret's vs. Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill
7:30 PM at Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill
Totino-Grace vs. St. Francis/North Branch
7:00 PM at St. Francis/North Branch
Moose Lake Area vs. Webster
7:00 PM at Webster
Brainerd/Little Falls vs. Willmar
7:00 PM at Willmar
Rochester Century vs. Winona
7:30 PM at Winona

Tue, January 31, 2012
Albert Lea vs. Mankato West
Rosemount vs. Eastview

Sat, January 28, 2012
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range vs. Grantsburg

Thu, January 26, 2012
Detroit Lakes vs. Pequot Lakes

Knight7 · Post by **Knight7** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 am

Thursday, February 2, 2012
St. Cloud vs. Alexandria
5:15 PM at Alexandria
Breck 4 vs. Blake 2
7:30 PM at Blake
Proctor/Hermantown 0 vs. Duluth 2
6:00 PM at Duluth
Crookston 5 vs. East Grand Forks 6
7:30 PM at East Grand Forks
Buffalo 3 vs. Hutchinson 2
7:00 PM at Hutchinson
Eveleth-Gilbert vs. International Falls
7:30 PM at International Falls
Pequot Lakes vs. LPGE/WDC
7:00 PM at Wadena
Eden Prairie 1 vs. Minnetonka 6
7:00 PM at Minnetonka
North Wright County vs. Moorhead
7:30 PM at Moorhead
Red Wing 9 vs. New Prague 4
7:15 PM at New Prague
Rochester Mayo 1 vs. Owatonna 4
7:00 PM at Owatonna
Thief River Falls vs. Park Rapids Area
7:30 PM at Park Rapids
Fergus Falls vs. River Lakes
7:00 PM at Paynesville, MN
Benilde-St. Margaret's 8 vs. Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill 0
7:30 PM at Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill
Totino-Grace 4 vs. St. Francis/North Branch 1
7:00 PM at St. Francis/North Branch
Moose Lake Area 3 vs. Webster 4
7:00 PM at Webster
Brainerd/Little Falls 1 vs. Willmar 5
7:00 PM at Willmar
Rochester Century 2 vs. Winona 7
7:30 PM at Winona

These were on hockeyhub

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:52 am

More scores from the Hub and/or MSHSL's site:

Thursday, February 2, 2012
Eveleth-Gilbert 0, International Falls 3
Pequot Lakes 7, LPGE/WDC 2
North Wright County 3, Moorhead 5
Fergus Falls 4, River Lakes 6

Also, a correction on the BSM/Spring Lake Park score - it should be:
Benilde-St. Margaret's 6, Spring Lk Pk/St. Anth Vill 0
(see game sheet – and both the MSHSL's and school’s websites confirm it was 6-0)

Tue, January 31, 2012
Albert Lea 2, Mankato West 4
Rosemount 3, Eastview 2

Sat, January 28, 2012
SB/TH/CC/Ely/NE Range 9, Grantsburg 5

Thu, January 26, 2012
Detroit Lakes 1, Pequot Lakes 2

With these plus Knight7's scores above I believe there are only two games still outstanding:

Thursday, February 2, 2012
St. Cloud vs. Alexandria
5:15 PM at Alexandria

Thief River Falls vs. Park Rapids Area
7:30 PM at Park Rapids

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

2011-12 KRACH RANKINGS - FINAL - Updated 02/26

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