AA Rankings for 1/22/12

[old goalie85]

If Parker's ready to go you HAVE to start him!!! Don't you???

[east hockey]

If Parker's ready to go you HAVE to start him!!! Don't you???

Based on what happened against Minnetonka, yep. Of course, Skoog didn't exactly get stellar support in front of him, but you still get back to what was working the best. I feel bad for Paige, but that's pretty much the deal.

Then again, Mike has surprised me before...

Lee

[Roseauverrated]

OK I'll take the bait! Red Army...are you kiddin me. They are a very good team , these Hounds, but not nearly the wrecking crew some people seem to think. They have a better chance than anyone else to win it all in my opinion but are not in the same class as some of the historic power house teams we've seen in the past. While always extremely competitive in youth hockey this group has won ZERO state championships. Last years EP team collected 6. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but it seems we have some posters getting a little ahead of themselves.

Who cares how many state championships a team won in youth hockey? That guarantees them nothing once they hit high school. Last year, East was the best team at state, and it took a fanned clearing attempt and a great effort by Rau to dagger East fans' hearts.

Here's the deal. Obviously, I am basing my judgments on pure speculation that East will have its full roster soon, and through the rest of the season, and that Randolph will mold them into the juggernaut I believe they can become. As I am not an East fan, East Hockey, I don't look at Saturday's loss as a humbling experience. Instead, as a high school hockey fan, I say that ain't gonna happen again. Not this season. More than likely, it will be East doing the humbling.

For the love of God, some of you East backers are unbelievable. Your team got beat at state last year by a team that proved over and over and over and over and over again that they were champions and you still can't swallow it. I expected to pull for the Hounds this season but can't bring myself to do it because of the excuses and sour grapes I read on this board from East fans. Never thought I'd say this but "nice job Tonka". By the way, nobody is buying what you're selling about not being an East fan.

I wouldn't generalize all Duluth East fans based on one arrogant poster on this board.

mnmouth, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I would, however, suggest you change the way you go about expressing it, you're coming off as very bigoted and aren't gaining many fans. This Duluth East team is not invincible, I would think a 9-3 loss would have shown you that.

[karl(east)]

There was one obstacle that was too big

Well, yeah...hard to stage a comeback after the other team scores in OT.

The point relates to the "mental toughness" intangible I've been trailing on about throughout this thread. Last year's East team (and EP, and probably a few other teams) had it. It's too early to say who does and who doesn't this year.

I have always found it interesting that some people base a decision on who to root for/not root for on the words of a few other people in a mostly anonymous forum. People who they don't know. People who they have never met and will never meet.

Agreed. Another fascinating phenomenon that should be studied in Hockey Forum Psychology 101.

[MyFOXHockey]

Not a big fan of dropping a team based on prior years which seems to be the case with East and Grove. If I'm spinning the wheel, I keep everyone where they were. I don't think anyone needs to boast for their team winning 9-3, or scratching their heads if theirs lost by the same margin.

East (when healthy) is tough to handle. Didn't see the first game v. Tonka, but witnessed first hand the dominance in the second and third period against Maple Grove. If they play like that, they won't be beat. Probably their best effort of the season and don't know if they can play better.

Losing Saturday might have been the best thing for them. Had they won, Skoog would have been 10-0 and making a change back to Parker (although 100% the right move) would have been a tougher decision. After the performance in goal Saturday, there is no way you don't go back to DP.

[GTTN]

I don't think tonka had that great of a week. They played very uninspired hockey on thursday in front of a nice home crowd. They lost and they deserved to. Edina isn't as talented but they definitely wanted it more and came away with the victory.

I agree that DE is depleted with missing players. My point is tonka isn't even playing that well right now. They scored 1 goal on a 5 min PP. They were out shot by the hounds. If they can put it together in the next couple weeks I think they can give a healthy east team all they can handle in a rubber match. Lets hope it happens.

I would keep East at #1 and tonka at #2

[karl(east)]

Not a big fan of dropping a team based on prior years which seems to be the case with East and Grove. If I'm spinning the wheel, I keep everyone where they were. I don't think anyone needs to boast for their team winning 9-3, or scratching their heads if theirs lost by the same margin.

East (when healthy) is tough to handle. Didn't see the first game v. Tonka, but witnessed first hand the dominance in the second and third period against Maple Grove. If they play like that, they won't be beat. Probably their best effort of the season and don't know if they can play better.

Losing Saturday might have been the best thing for them. Had they won, Skoog would have been 10-0 and making a change back to Parker (although 100% the right move) would have been a tougher decision. After the performance in goal Saturday, there is no way you don't go back to DP.

East certainly isn't being dropped because of performance in recent years--if anything, last year's experience should only help them.

I brought up past years as a way of showing how certain losses or ties can weigh on a team. Not all losses have the same impact. A good example is Tonka losing to Edina--it's a conference game and they'll play each other at least 3 times this year; it's not surprising that a good team like Edina managed to beat Tonka once. The Skippers obviously had no trouble bouncing back from that one.

East, on the other hand, has been propped up as #1 all season long by pretty much everyone, and has been listening to some (silly, IMO) talk about where they rank among the state's great teams. I think it's worthwhile to raise some questions about how they'll respond to their fall back to earth.

Maple Grove is a little more complicated. I mentioned last year because I think there is pretty good evidence that, when I high school team fails to break through one year, that trend will continue for 2-3 years. I could give lots of examples: the Budish-Everson-Lee Hornets at the State Tournament, White Bear Lake vs. Hill before last year, East in the middle of this past decade with 4 straight upset losses, Hibbing dropping 4 straight in the section final before breaking through last year, Lakeville North over South these past few years...the list goes on and on. The point is, MG needs to avoid letdowns like that tie against Andover, or else they could easily add their name to that list of teams.

For the record, I had a much harder time deciding who to put at #3 than I did deciding on #1. If Maple Grove can respond convincingly against Blaine later this week, that may be enough to bump them back up.

After watching the first East-Tonka game and listening to the second on the radio, I'm amazed by how much the two are mirror images of each other. Similar storylines, similar explanations for the reasons behind each team's win/loss (minus injuries/suspensions, which were not a factor for Tonka in the first meeting).

Comments on the winning team mention how they came out playing with fire, withstood a little stetch where the other team could have climbed back in, didn't have nearly as good a day on special teams as they could have. Comments on the losing team note a slow start, a chance to climb back in that was wasted, shoddy goaltending and even worse defense, yet they still mananged to outshoot the other team.

I think that shows they're pretty even teams, and credit here goes to the team with the more recent win.

I feel like I'm trailing on and on more than I should; I hope I'm being clear.

[mnmouth]

Who cares how many state championships a team won in youth hockey? That guarantees them nothing once they hit high school. Last year, East was the best team at state, and it took a fanned clearing attempt and a great effort by Rau to dagger East fans' hearts.

Here's the deal. Obviously, I am basing my judgments on pure speculation that East will have its full roster soon, and through the rest of the season, and that Randolph will mold them into the juggernaut I believe they can become. As I am not an East fan, East Hockey, I don't look at Saturday's loss as a humbling experience. Instead, as a high school hockey fan, I say that ain't gonna happen again. Not this season. More than likely, it will be East doing the humbling.

For the love of God, some of you East backers are unbelievable. Your team got beat at state last year by a team that proved over and over and over and over and over again that they were champions and you still can't swallow it. I expected to pull for the Hounds this season but can't bring myself to do it because of the excuses and sour grapes I read on this board from East fans. Never thought I'd say this but "nice job Tonka". By the way, nobody is buying what you're selling about not being an East fan.

I wouldn't generalize all Duluth East fans based on one arrogant poster on this board.

mnmouth, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I would, however, suggest you change the way you go about expressing it, you're coming off as very bigoted and aren't gaining many fans. This Duluth East team is not invincible, I would think a 9-3 loss would have shown you that.

It is not my job to gain fans. In a forum such as this, opinion is all that matters. Whether it be measured and thoughtful, or bombastic and flawed. This is the perfect place for having fun with words. And that's all they are, words.

If East had lost 9-3 with their full roster intact and skating at Pagel, I would have no choice but to accept that they are not invincible. They did not. That leaves plenty of speculation that a full roster would have made a difference. I've already admitted that Tonka is the no. 1 team in the state right now. East is limping around, wounded. Tonka is healthy and sky-high. Makes sense to me, but it is my firm belief that when East is again at full strength, the other class AA teams will be playing for second. All you non-East believers ought to feel that way about your team.

[KrautBache]

I have always found it interesting that some people base a decision on who to root for/not root for on the words of a few other people in a mostly anonymous forum. People who they don't know. People who they have never met and will never meet.

Agreed. Another fascinating phenomenon that should be studied in Hockey Forum Psychology 101.

Interesting, maybe. But certainly one of the most common ways to evaluate the "likability" of a team is by its fans (and I'm talking about any sport, at any level from grade school through the pros). And when it comes to high school hockey, anonymous forum(s) are one of the main places one can see the "personality" of a team's fans.

[Roseauverrated]

I have always found it interesting that some people base a decision on who to root for/not root for on the words of a few other people in a mostly anonymous forum. People who they don't know. People who they have never met and will never meet.

Agreed. Another fascinating phenomenon that should be studied in Hockey Forum Psychology 101.

Interesting, maybe. But certainly one of the most common ways to evaluate the "likability" of a team is by its fans (and I'm talking about any sport, at any level from grade school through the pros). And when it comes to high school hockey, anonymous forum(s) are one of the main places one can see the "personality" of a team's fans.

Not sure I agree with that. The people who post on this forum represent a ridiculously small proportion of a given team's fans. I know I wouldn't change my view on a team based on what a couple people said on a message board.

[mnmouth]

Agreed. Another fascinating phenomenon that should be studied in Hockey Forum Psychology 101.

Interesting, maybe. But certainly one of the most common ways to evaluate the "likability" of a team is by its fans (and I'm talking about any sport, at any level from grade school through the pros). And when it comes to high school hockey, anonymous forum(s) are one of the main places one can see the "personality" of a team's fans.

Not sure I agree with that. The people who post on this forum represent a ridiculously small proportion of a given team's fans. I know I wouldn't change my view on a team based on what a couple people said on a message board.

Agreed, unless, of course, it's Karl's rankings.

[MyFOXHockey]

Karl- 100% get what you are saying and appreciate the passion and the work you do.

doug

[karl(east)]

I have always found it interesting that some people base a decision on who to root for/not root for on the words of a few other people in a mostly anonymous forum. People who they don't know. People who they have never met and will never meet.

Agreed. Another fascinating phenomenon that should be studied in Hockey Forum Psychology 101.

Interesting, maybe. But certainly one of the most common ways to evaluate the "likability" of a team is by its fans (and I'm talking about any sport, at any level from grade school through the pros). And when it comes to high school hockey, anonymous forum(s) are one of the main places one can see the "personality" of a team's fans.

I suppose this is true to a certain extent, though oftentimes I think we see what we want to see in other teams' fans. For example, I hate the Boston Red Sox and have met a number of very, very obnoxious Red Sox fans in my life, but I don't root against them because of those fans.

And there's also a distinction between being annoyed by the fans of a team and translating that into dislike of the players on the team and what they're trying to achieve (especially when we're talking about kids, not professionals).

With something as large as a high school, there may be general trends that emerge, I'm guessing we all have fans of our own team whom we disagree with and maybe even despise. But we're stuck with them, for good or ill.

Plus, there are plenty of other good reasons to dislike a team. (They're cakeaters, they beat us last year, we've had a rivalry with Team X since the dawn of man, they always go to State and we want to see someone new...)


Thanks, as always, for the comments and random discussion...this is far more interesting that just a few "good job" posts, as much as I appreciate those.

[Slap Shot]

Why is it so hard for some to want to root for Tonka? Talk about a hard luck program (section finals losses to Edina in the early 80's, a 4 OT loss to Jefferson in their first ever state game, more section finals losses by very talented teams, running into an invincible Roseau in the state semis, more section finals losses and finally losing to the friggin Hornets in a state final). Cripes they're far more Cubs than Red Sox.

[east hockey]

Why is it so hard for some to want to root for Tonka? Talk about a hard luck program (section finals losses to Edina in the early 80's, a 4 OT loss to Jefferson in their first ever state game, more section finals losses by very talented teams, running into an invincible Roseau in the state semis, more section finals losses and finally losing to the friggin Hornets in a state final). Cripes they're far more Cubs than Red Sox.

I wouldn't find it hard if they didn't stand in East's way.

If East is knocked out, then I'll probably root for Tonka. (Unless another area team is alive) Would be nice to see them win their first championship.

Lee

[PuckU126]

Why is it so hard for some to want to root for Tonka? Talk about a hard luck program (section finals losses to Edina in the early 80's, a 4 OT loss to Jefferson in their first ever state game, more section finals losses by very talented teams, running into an invincible Roseau in the state semis, more section finals losses and finally losing to the friggin Hornets in a state final). Cripes they're far more Cubs than Red Sox.

At least Tonka has won a State quarterfinal game.

*cough* White Bear Lake *cough*

They've got it worse. I believe they're 0-18 in the quarters. (Correct me if I am wrong)

[east hockey]

Why is it so hard for some to want to root for Tonka? Talk about a hard luck program (section finals losses to Edina in the early 80's, a 4 OT loss to Jefferson in their first ever state game, more section finals losses by very talented teams, running into an invincible Roseau in the state semis, more section finals losses and finally losing to the friggin Hornets in a state final). Cripes they're far more Cubs than Red Sox.

At least Tonka has won a State quarterfinal game.

*cough* White Bear Lake *cough*

They've got it worse. I believe they're 0-18 in the quarters. (Correct me if I am wrong)

You are correct.

Lee

[PuckU126]

At least Tonka has won a State quarterfinal game.

*cough* White Bear Lake *cough*

They've got it worse. I believe they're 0-18 in the quarters. (Correct me if I am wrong)

You are correct.

Lee

Of course.

[MrBoDangles]

Unless the stats are wrong it looks like Parker has had a cakewalk... Parker's shots on goal have mostly been 10-15, while Skoog's games have been mostly 22-32.

Most goalies should have those stats facing 13 shots a game.

[Snap Shot]

I love to root for northern teams just because of the David vs. Goliath notion vs. some of the big metro schools. Maybe that's overblown since there are quite a few hockey factories up north, but I love it when a Roseau or Rapids has a shot at the title.

I also like to root for public vs. private...even though "recruiting" happens at some public schools it is way more prevalent at the privates.

There are plenty of reasons to root for Tonka too. Great coaches, great youth program and a school that's a lot less impressed with itself (but every bit as good academically) compared to other huge public and private metro schools.

While not as deep in tourney appearances as many schools, Tonka's 5 trips have yielded a 2nd, 3rd and 5th place finish in arguably the toughest section in the state. It would be great to add a championship this year, but that's going to be a tall order.

Still you never know... Tonka was favored in 2010 and the 4 OT marathon vs. Hill in the semi's probably cost them the title that year. The same thing could easily happen to East or any other team...you never know.

That's why the tourney is so awesome!

[StreetStix]

Unless the stats are wrong it looks like Parker has had a cakewalk... Parker's shots on goal have mostly been 10-15, while Skoog's games have been mostly 22-32.

Most goalies should have those stats facing 13 shots a game.

Not sure where you're pulling numbers from or how you're analyzing them, but I see Parker average 18 shots per game and Skoog averaging 20 shots per game. Parker has played 9 games, Skoog has played 10 games. Parker has let up 10 goals, Skoog has let up 25.

Parker played: Wayzata, St. Cloud Tech, Lakeville North, Cloquet, Burnsville, Minnetonka (6-2 win), Maple Grove, Moorhead, Forest Lake

Skoog played: Cambridge-Isanti, Andover, White Bear Lake, Centennial, St. Thomas, Anoka, Grand Rapids, Eden Prairie, Apple Valley, Minnetonka (9-3 loss)

Just a little informacione. Looking at shots per game and the opponents, if it was a cakewalk for Parker, it should've been a cakewalk for Skoog.

[old goalie85]

I as @ the game last night, East could have played with an empty net!!!! They are a great hockey team.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

OK I'll take the bait! Red Army...are you kiddin me. They are a very good team , these Hounds, but not nearly the wrecking crew some people seem to think. They have a better chance than anyone else to win it all in my opinion but are not in the same class as some of the historic power house teams we've seen in the past. While always extremely competitive in youth hockey this group has won ZERO state championships. Last years EP team collected 6. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but it seems we have some posters getting a little ahead of themselves.

Who cares how many state championships a team won in youth hockey? That guarantees them nothing once they hit high school. Last year, East was the best team at state, and it took a fanned clearing attempt and a great effort by Rau to dagger East fans' hearts.

Here's the deal. Obviously, I am basing my judgments on pure speculation that East will have its full roster soon, and through the rest of the season, and that Randolph will mold them into the juggernaut I believe they can become. As I am not an East fan, East Hockey, I don't look at Saturday's loss as a humbling experience. Instead, as a high school hockey fan, I say that ain't gonna happen again. Not this season. More than likely, it will be East doing the humbling.

And 2 missed interference calls against number 3.....by the way, #3 finally got an interference call on him in the EP game the other weekend. Sure would have liked to have a power play in last years state game....

[mnmouth]

OK I'll take the bait! Red Army...are you kiddin me. They are a very good team , these Hounds, but not nearly the wrecking crew some people seem to think. They have a better chance than anyone else to win it all in my opinion but are not in the same class as some of the historic power house teams we've seen in the past. While always extremely competitive in youth hockey this group has won ZERO state championships. Last years EP team collected 6. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but it seems we have some posters getting a little ahead of themselves.

Who cares how many state championships a team won in youth hockey? That guarantees them nothing once they hit high school. Last year, East was the best team at state, and it took a fanned clearing attempt and a great effort by Rau to dagger East fans' hearts.

Here's the deal. Obviously, I am basing my judgments on pure speculation that East will have its full roster soon, and through the rest of the season, and that Randolph will mold them into the juggernaut I believe they can become. As I am not an East fan, East Hockey, I don't look at Saturday's loss as a humbling experience. Instead, as a high school hockey fan, I say that ain't gonna happen again. Not this season. More than likely, it will be East doing the humbling.

And 2 missed interference calls against number 3.....by the way, #3 finally got an interference call on him in the EP game the other weekend. Sure would have liked to have a power play in last years state game....

Heckuva strategy Randolph employed against Rau - just kick the crap out of him all game. Unfortunately, for the Hounds they did not do it all game.

[Turk182]

karl(east),

I hate to beat a dead horse but I still have troubling understanding your ranking of Eagan. Even though they had a good week and one both games (East Ridge and Lakeville North) I’m still not that overly impressed with them. Honestly I'm not sure why there even in the top 5. I myself would place them behind Edina, BSM, Moorehead and Eden Prairie.

But you’re definitely not alone in your assumptions and have proven over the years that your usually right in the end. I'd just like to see them play and beat a top tier team. Guess will find out more about this team when they play Hill Murray...