SnowedIn wrote:SECoach wrote:I won't quote any posts here, because its too difficult to pick one.
The prior attempt to change body contact at pee wees was done so without much thought, reasoning, research or training. This decision was well researched and thought out. There is also significant training time and dollars invested this time around. There is also a strong network of people in place to monitor, assist, and educate coaches in best practices. Hard to compare this time with that time.
Injury prevention was a side companion to the true purpose, which is enhanced skill development. Safety, and keeping "scaredy cats" in the game, is far from the reason it was imposed. Only time will tell if is actually increases or decreases injuries. The dire predictions made here will not do the trick.
Although the sky was said to be falling, there has been no mass exodus of girls to pee wee hockey. In fact, there has been little to no affect.
Strictly enforcing rules does little to enhance skill development. It does improve safety, but does not allow a 12 year old childs brain to develop the finer points of the game, which is what they need to be doing at that age. Skills and tactics that are never learned in a full contact game at this age are what are needed to be developed. This can only be done successfully in an environment of limited body contact. While we long for the days of pond hockey, where individual skills were tried, learned, and honed, we forget that pond hockey has, and probably always will be played with limited body contact. Not much checking going on the rink I played on as a kid.
Hockey is not just played in the US or just in North America. Both the US and Canada, including the NHL, recognize that the game and its players are world wide. Attend an International Coaching Symposium or two and listen to or participate in the discussions between the "experts" on the game of hockey and how it is played around the world. Like it or not, the game of hockey has slowly changed to a highly skilled game. That's how it's played in the rest of the world, and the governing bodies of the sport in both the US and Canada recognize this and are on board. They have no choice, the highly skilled players are taking over.
The good news is that most of the posters here won't care once their boys leave pee wee hockey. They will move on and then be entertained by low skilled, high contact hockey until their kids are finished with bantams (a few will play high school). This, while the people with squirts, mites, and below now, will become accustomed to the way the game will be played in the future. Highly skilled in both offensive and defensive play, with body contact used in proper proportion to the true needs of the game, and used for the right purpose. The people who are dedicated to the game will help the players adapt and evolve, even after their pee wees grow up. Watch some of the IIHF World Junior Tournament going on now. It will give you a good taste of things to come. Funny thing about evolution, is that it can't be stopped.
SECoach: Didn't re-read all of the posts from the last few days but don't remember anyone saying anything about scaredy cats??? Nor have I read anyone thumping their chests about how hockey is a tough guy's sport. Checking is a huge part of the game. Checking is the ultimate form of puck separation and the "good" coaches teach it that way. Eliminating the BS head hunting that goes on with stiffer penalties will go a long way to force coaches and players to stop that activity.
The skill aspect of the game has been evolving ever since the Europeans started coming over in bigger numbers in the later 80's and 90's. Hockey has already evolved skillwise in a big way and will continue to. The Europeans have brought more skill and forced players in North America to catch up and you see many more highly skilled players here in NA versus the past. At the same time The Europeans have increased their physical play to keep up with that aspect of the game. They have evolved as well.
I think the game is better than ever. Its highly skilled and highly physical. Since the interference rules started to be enforced the glutching and grabbing and hooking.... has all but gone away making the game even better.
BUT checking has not gone away and it won't and it is a huge part of them game. Skilled players can check great and avoid checks because they have great edges and see the ice "because of their skills", not because they didn't have checking at Pee Wee.
Once again, players do not develop their skills in games. The evidence is unrefutable. They develop the "finer points" as you say, or the "essential points" as I say, in practice if the coaches run efffective skills practices. You make it sound like the posters don't care about skills. Read my posts again. And last time I checked, coaches don't send kids out to crush a kid during a stickhandling drill. It's the same forum that can be used for non check small area games to allow the kids to develop their skills, in addition to checking small area games. This is where the skill development has to happen both with and without checking.
SECoach wrote: The good news is that most of the posters here won't care once their boys leave pee wee hockey. They will move on and then be entertained by low skilled, high contact hockey until their kids are finished with bantams (a few will play high school).
The bad news is that if anyone believes that banning checking is the fix for skill development you will not see any improvement in the game. The majority of kids will continue to be B or C players, with many B players playing A or highschool because there aren't enough A players to field the teams. Attend an international coaching clinic, or even a USA Hockey coaching clinic and you will see what the rest of the world is doing to improve skills. Its in the way they practice! You cannot develop holding the puck for 1.5 seconds a shift and making 6 passes a game.
SECoach - you like to refer to the Europeans and how "they do it". I do too! They are not more skilled because of checking or no checking because they don't develop the kids in games. Some don't even play "real" games until they are Pee Wees or later. They do it with "great coaching" that understands and incorporates the skill development into every practice. Its about the practice, not the games.
Sorry to do this to everyone but here are some more quotes.
Quote: "It is common knowledge that the Russians have a 6 to 1 practice to game ratio....and actually do not play serious games until they are twelve years old. Skills and creative, non-threatening scrimmage is a focus...interesting to note that about one half of each session was spent on blue line 3 on 3 games, full of moves and plays we would never allow a 7 year old Mite try to perform in a league game"
Some bullets from a study published by Al Bloomer and Mark Tabrum of USA Hockey after visiting Russia in 2008:
Russia Coaching Program:
The Russian coaching education system is extensive and demanding.
• All coaches must go through a rigorous educational process. They must first obtain a sports degree from an accredited university. After receiving this degree, coaches spend a year attaining a coaching degree specific to the sport they are coaching. Coaches spend time in the classroom and are given practical experience by coaching with two separate teams during this year of hockey-specific training. This theory and practical experience totals 500 hours. Most Russian coaches are former players. Coaches are required to have skating ability and goaltender coaches receive additional specialized training.
• The top/best coaches teach at the entry levels (6, 7 & 8 year olds).
• In some clubs a coach will move vertically through the system with the same birth year. In other clubs the coaches will stay at the same birth year level for up to 10 years.
• Coaches within the club work together. The program is designed for vertical development – moving players to the next level within the club. Standardized curriculum/philosophy allows for smooth transition and players are prepared for the next level. The primary objective is to prepare players for the parent professional club team.
• Players practice on ice a minimum of five times per week. Each practice lasts from 90 to 120 minutes. In addition, players from age 8-12 will have three off ice training sessions per week. Older players will have five off ice training sessions per week. At about age 12-14, weights are added to the off ice training program. Off ice training is very important in Russian hockey.
• The primary objective of each program is to develop players for the parent professional team. A secondary objective is to develop players for the national teams. Winning at the older ages (16 and older) is considered but is not a primary objective. A 17-year-old is eligible to play in the top professional league.
• The practices we observed for the 5-8 year-olds worked on fundamental skills. Specific drills, requiring multiple skills, were run for long periods of time (15 to 30 minutes) and emphasized repetition. The overall pace was moderate. The coach gave verbal instruction and occasionally stopped practice for demonstration. We saw practices at this level where a player had a puck on his stick for the entire session. Puck possession and puck protection are high priorities in Russian hockey.
• Practices overall focus on the individual skills of the player not the team concept of North American hockey. One specific practice we observed had players skating around tires on one end of the rink. The other end had players stick-handling pucks through and around metal tri-pods. Players in the middle of the ice were put in 1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, and 1 vs 3 situations.
• Tactics and systems are not introduced in Russian hockey until age 14.
The Philosophical change with USA Hockey has a lot to do with studies like this.
If our players were developing all along, we would be riddled with skilled players that play heads up hockey and checking would be a non issue. This thread would not need to exist.
Most skilled players are developing outside of the team practice because most team practices do not develop skills. The good thing here in our great state is that there are a good number of local options for skill development for those players that want to excel in their skills. Make no mistake that most of the top players in your association attend those options during the season and/or off season.
Until coaches see the light and start to follow the lead of the best practices we will continue to be behind the curve. CHECKING OR NO CHECKING.
whether there is checking at pee wee or not the players will not develop unless they get proper skills training in practice. In your original post you said kids will develop their skills because of no checking in games. It is a well supported fact that this is not the case AT ALL. 
But humor me. Before you do know that the NA did not become more skilled because they played with the Europeans. They learned those skills in practice. They did NOT absorb the skills by being close to the more skilled players. Same with the physical play for the Euros. The games provided the media for learning what they needed to improve and they want back to practice to improve it. Again, the point is you develop in practice and use games to test how well you are doing.