Hill Murray Pioneers

Nostalgic Nerd · Post by **Nostalgic Nerd** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:03 am

I don't really "get" why athletes do this in the middle of a season? (Especially if the team is undefeated.) You come from Nationals and it's like "Oh, I'm back!"

Anyhow, Brandt has 40 points in 11 games. If she were there for every game including playoffs I'm sure she'd be over 100. The Hockey Hub says she is 100% SOG but I'm not sure about that.

Knight7 · Post by **Knight7** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:16 am

Nerd,

Athletes don't do this. USA Hockey does this, they make the teams and the when and where to play or practice. Athletes will always play to the highest level available. That is what makes them special at this level. HS hockey is a means to an end, College and the chance to make their National Team is where they want to go. Any coach or player that begrudges them that opportunity isn't much of a coach or a teammate.
These athletes would love to play in the off HS season and be with their HS team 1st and foremost. But they also know that the National Teams will not wait for them and will plug in the next available players in a heartbeat and their chance is now lost, most likely forever.

Be happy for all these athletes and when they come back they will positively effect there team and teammates. They will also bring up the level of play up for those they compete against. That will help make the next group of players better.

Nordic · Post by **Nordic** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:11 am

Knight7,

Great post, not sure anyone could have said it better.

Team needs to play as a team. No different if the player was injured. They will do ok.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:23 pm

Hannah Brandt isn't the only girl going to USA camp Roseville has 3 girls going doesn't make them the greatest of all time

MinnGirlsHockey · Post by **MinnGirlsHockey** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:58 pm

hockeymannorth wrote:Hannah Brandt isn't the only girl going to USA camp Roseville has 3 girls going doesn't make them the greatest of all time

I think you're confusing the Women's National Team with the Under-18 National Team. Brandt is the only American high school player participating in the 2011 USA Hockey Women's Winter Training Camp (per the earlier post/link by MNHockeyFan).

joehockey · Post by **joehockey** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:44 pm

2011 USA Hockey Women’s Winter Training Camp Roster
Name Ht (cm) Wt (kg) Birthdate S/C Hometown Team
GOALTENDERS (4)
Brianne McLaughlin* 5-8 (174) 130 (59) 6/20/87 L Sheffield Village, Ohio Burlington Barracudas (CWHL)
Molly Schaus* 5-8 (174) 148 (67) 7/29/88 L Natick, Mass. Boston Blades (CWHL)
Alex Rigsby 5-7 (171) 160 (72) 1/3/92 L Delafield, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
Jessie Vetter* 5-8 (174) 169 (77) 12/19/85 L Cottage Grove, Wis.

DEFENSEMEN (13)
Kacey Bellamy* 5-8 (174) 143 (65) 4/22/87 L Westfield, Mass. Boston Blades (CWHL)
Blake Bolden 5-6 (168) 150 (68) 3/10/91 R Stow, Ohio Boston College (HEA)
Megan Bozek 5-9 (175) 168 (76) 3/27/91 R Buffalo Grove, Ill. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
Caitlin Cahow** 5-4 (163) 156 (71) 5/20/85 L Branford, Conn. Boston Blades (CWHL)
Lisa Chesson* 5-7 (171) 141 (64) 8/18/86 L Plainfield, Ill.
Molly Engstrom** 5-9 (175) 178 (81) 3/1/83 R Siren, Wis. Brampton Thunder (CWHL)
Marissa Gedman 5-9 (175) 180 (82) 3/12/92 L Framingham, Mass. Harvard University (ECACH)
Gigi Marvin* 5-8 (174) 170 (77) 3/7/87 R Warroad, Minn. Boston Blades (CWHL)
Michelle Picard 5-6 (168) 156 (71) 5/27/93 L Taunton, Mass. Harvard University (ECACH)
Geena Prough 5-2 (157) 155 (70) 3/28/89 R Farmington, Mich.
Josephine Pucci 5-8 (173) 157 (71) 12/27/90 R Pearl River, N.Y. Harvard University (ECACH)
Anne Schleper 5-10 (178) 167 (76) 1/30/90 L St. Cloud, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
Montana Vichorek 5-7 (171) 150 (68) 7/24/90 R Moose Lake, Minn. Bemidji State University (WCHA)

FORWARDS (24)
Brittany Ammerman 5-6 (168) 145 (66) 6/19/92 L River Vale, N.J. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
Brooke Ammerman 5-8 (174) 155 (70) 7/13/90 R River Vale, N.J. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
Hannah Brandt 5-8 (174) 169 (77) 11/27/93 R Vadnais Heights, Minn. Hill-Murray School (Minn.)
Julie Chu*** 5-8 (174) 147 (67) 3/13/82 R Fairfield, Conn. Montreal Stars (CWHL)
Kendall Coyne 5-2 (157) 130 (59) 5/25/92 L Palos Heights, Ill. Northeastern University (HEA)
Brianna Decker 5-4 (163) 152 (69) 5/13/91 R Dousman, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
Jillian Dempsey 5-4 (163) 138 (63) 1/19/91 L Winthrop, Mass. Harvard University (ECACH)
Brittany Dougherty 5-7 (171) 165 (79) 3/19/91 R Chesterfield, Mich. University of Maine (HEA)
Meghan Duggan* 5-9 (175) 164 (74) 9/3/87 R Danvers, Mass. Boston Blades (CWHL)
Emily Erickson 5-9 (175) 150 (68) 10/10/89 R Coleraine, Minn. Bemidji State University (WCHA)
Emily Field 5-6 (168) 147 (67) 4/6/93 L Littleton, Mass. Boston College (HEA)
Kelly Foley 5-8 (174) 145 (66) 10/28/89 L South Boston, Mass. Dartmouth College (ECACH)
Amanda Kessel 5-6 (168) 131 (59) 8/28/91 R Verona, Wis. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
Hilary Knight* 5-10 (178) 172 (78) 7/12/89 R Sun Valley, Idaho University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
Jocelyne Lamoureux* 5-6 (168) 154 (70) 7/3/89 R Grand Forks, N.D. University of North Dakota (WCHA)
Monique Lamoureux-Kolls* 5-6 (168) 156 (71) 7/3/89 R Grand Forks, N.D. University of North Dakota (WCHA)
Erika Lawler* 5-0 (152) 130 (59) 2/5/87 R Fitchburg, Mass. Boston Blades (CWHL)
Casey Pickett 5-4 (163) 140 (63) 12/14/90 R Wilmington, Mass. Northeastern University (HEA)
Jenny Potter**** 5-4 (163) 145 (66) 1/12/79 L Edina, Minn. Minnesota Whitecaps (WWHL)
Jen Schoullis 5-9 (175) 165 (75) 3/7/89 L Girard, Pa. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
Jordan Smelker 5-8 (174) 149 (67) 6/19/92 L Anchorage, Alaska Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (ECACH)
Kelli Stack* 5-5 (165) 130 (59) 1/13/88 R Brooklyn Heights, Ohio Boston Blades (CWHL)
Kelley Steadman 5-11 (180) 160 (73) 7/17/90 R Plattsburgh, N.Y. Mercyhurst College (CHA)
Taylor Wasylk 5-9 (175) 165 (79) 2/21/92 L Port Huron, Mich. Boston College (HEA)
*2010 Olympian **2006 & 2010 Olympian ***2002, 2006 & 2010 Olympian ****1998, 2002, 2006 & 2010 Olympian

GopherFanARM · Post by **GopherFanARM** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:11 am

Rachel Ramsey attended the same USA Hockey holiday camp last season; in the long run, that worked out okay for Minnetonka. If Hannah Brandt can take away something from the camp to improve her game that could potentially help the Pioneers come tourney time, then it isn't a bad trade for them.

As for being the greatest in MN HS history, how does one compare? Natalie Darwitz played her final HS game when she was a sophomore. By the time she was a senior, she was in her second season of being centralized with Team USA. Krissy Wendell also played her last HS game in 2000. The game has evolved so much in the decade since then that one now sees third lines that can not only skate, but be trusted on the ice against the other team's top line without getting lit up. It's fun to discuss the relative merits of players from then and now, but it is near impossible to reach a conclusion. Enjoy watching them all, and leave it at that.

If you are a parent and you feel that Brandt is getting too much attention or special treatment, I predict that someday when your daughter is watching Brandt play in the Olympics, she'll think it was kind of cool that she played with or against her back in high school.

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:49 am

GopherFanARM wrote:Rachel Ramsey attended the same USA Hockey holiday camp last season; in the long run, that worked out okay for Minnetonka. If Hannah Brandt can take away something from the camp to improve her game that could potentially help the Pioneers come tourney time, then it isn't a bad trade for them.

As for being the greatest in MN HS history, how does one compare? Natalie Darwitz played her final HS game when she was a sophomore. By the time she was a senior, she was in her second season of being centralized with Team USA. Krissy Wendell also played her last HS game in 2000. The game has evolved so much in the decade since then that one now sees third lines that can not only skate, but be trusted on the ice against the other team's top line without getting lit up. It's fun to discuss the relative merits of players from then and now, but it is near impossible to reach a conclusion. Enjoy watching them all, and leave it at that.

If you are a parent and you feel that Brandt is getting too much attention or special treatment, I predict that someday when your daughter is watching Brandt play in the Olympics, she'll think it was kind of cool that she played with or against her back in high school.

I for one, am extremely proud of Ms. Brandt and all of the Minnesota girls. What an accomplishment for her and really all of the girls that make it that far! Congrats girls! Remember to play the game because you love it!

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:26 pm

Been a special year so far for Hill-Murray. One loss to a Breck team that looks unbeatable and that Hill won't have to beat again. Wins over several perennail powers and now an 8 day break before taking on Tonka again minus their best player. The one question mark the team has is goaltending, and that will be shown out come the Kaposia Classic. Sure would have liked to see a matchup with HB against Roseville, but that doesn't look like it is going to happen. Should be a fun second half of the season.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:26 pm

I would like to see that as well, but Roseville will be without two top players as well. Maybe we can get a repeat at the section finals again with both teams full strength.

iceage · Post by **iceage** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:55 am

Homer wrote:I would like to see that as well, but Roseville will be without two top players as well. Maybe we can get a repeat at the section finals again with both teams full strength.

Roseville wouldn't like that.....they lost last year. Oh you meant the match-up........not the score.

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:52 am

Homer wrote:I would like to see that as well, but Roseville will be without two top players as well. Maybe we can get a repeat at the section finals again with both teams full strength.

Well I'd definately rather see it now versus in sections. I've seen enough losses to Roseville the past 15 years for my liking. Once again the winner of this section will represent very well at state.

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:31 pm

Pioneer Press today said Hannah Brandt would be out for the first two games of the Kaposia classic. Will be very interesting to see how they do without her. Chance for the team to really see that they are more than one player.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:50 pm

Sparlimb wrote:Pioneer Press today said Hannah Brandt would be out for the first two games of the Kaposia classic. Will be very interesting to see how they do without her. Chance for the team to really see that they are more than one player.

Agreed. I assume SSP (LaShomb) and Roseville ( a couple players) will be in the same situaiton this week. Interestingly, I believe others stepped up last week when SSP & HM met with their Nat'l team players present to determine the outcome of that game:
http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/game/game_sheet/2099200

GopherFanARM · Post by **GopherFanARM** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:21 pm

ghshockeyfan wrote:Interestingly, I believe others stepped up last week when SSP & HM met with their Nat'l team players present to determine the outcome of that game:
http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/game/game_sheet/2099200

While it is true that Brandt didn't show up on the score sheet in that game, she did a lot to establish momentum and wear SSP out. It bodes well for the Pioneers if those players are still able to make plays when they are looked at as the go-to players with #16 absent.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:06 pm

It's no doubt HM rolls w/ HB. I am looking forward to see how the rest of the team will step up w/o her. The D and the goaltending seem to be getting stronger as the season goes on. Can the offense step up.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:24 pm

GopherFanARM wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote:Interestingly, I believe others stepped up last week when SSP & HM met with their Nat'l team players present to determine the outcome of that game:
http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/game/game_sheet/2099200
While it is true that Brandt didn't show up on the score sheet in that game, she did a lot to establish momentum and wear SSP out. It bodes well for the Pioneers if those players are still able to make plays when they are looked at as the go-to players with #16 absent.

Homer wrote:It's no doubt HM rolls w/ HB. I am looking forward to see how the rest of the team will step up w/o her. The D and the goaltending seem to be getting stronger as the season goes on. Can the offense step up.

To be clear - I had no doubt that Brandt had an impact in the SSP game and I'm sure LaShomb had one too - it was just interesting to see that their names didn't appear in the scoresheet - pretty unusual for two players of their ability.

My point was that Brandt's teammates got the job done when she didn't show up on the scoresheet. Now they'll have to take it up another notch and do so when she isn't in the line-up. Great test for a pretty solid HM squad and this can only make them better when Brandt returns IMHO - same is true for SSP & Roseville - and any other team having players missing for a very good reason.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:51 pm

ghshockeyfan wrote:
GopherFanARM wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote:Interestingly, I believe others stepped up last week when SSP & HM met with their Nat'l team players present to determine the outcome of that game:
http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/game/game_sheet/2099200
While it is true that Brandt didn't show up on the score sheet in that game, she did a lot to establish momentum and wear SSP out. It bodes well for the Pioneers if those players are still able to make plays when they are looked at as the go-to players with #16 absent.

Homer wrote:It's no doubt HM rolls w/ HB. I am looking forward to see how the rest of the team will step up w/o her. The D and the goaltending seem to be getting stronger as the season goes on. Can the offense step up.
To be clear - I had no doubt that Brandt had an impact in the SSP game and I'm sure LaShomb had one too - it was just interesting to see that their names didn't appear in the scoresheet - pretty unusual for two players of their ability.

My point was that Brandt's teammates got the job done when she didn't show up on the scoresheet. Now they'll have to take it up another notch and do so when she isn't in the line-up. Great test for a pretty solid HM squad and this can only make them better when Brandt returns IMHO - same is true for SSP & Roseville - and any other team having players missing for a very good reason.

for me its hard to tell how good HB is when Hill plays so many lower places teams it should be easy run up your stats

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:52 pm

hockeymannorth wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote:My point was that Brandt's teammates got the job done when she didn't show up on the scoresheet. Now they'll have to take it up another notch and do so when she isn't in the line-up. Great test for a pretty solid HM squad and this can only make them better when Brandt returns IMHO - same is true for SSP & Roseville - and any other team having players missing for a very good reason.
for me its hard to tell how good HB is when Hill plays so many lower places teams it should be easy run up your stats

I used KRACH rankings to weight stats at one point. This removed some of the issues associated with big numbers against weak teams, etc.

There are actually far greater issues IMHO when it comes to stats. Some teams don't score control in blowouts and leave their very best players on the ice trying to score points (goals and assists) when the game is well over. I'm not saying that HM does this - just another observation - and it works against other teams that don't play a weak schedule and encounter many of these games - especially if they score controls when other do not.

Also, some teams somehow have two assists for every goal. Not sure how this is even possible - but those phantom assists really seem to add up. I'm all for giving an assist when it's legit if missed - even adding (or changing/removing) it after the fact based on video - but you can pretty easily tell the teams that are guilty of phantom assists (check their team stats vs other teams and see that they essentially have 2a for every 1g) and college coaches know they do it too and often joke about it. Sometimes it's done by the players on the ice and others by the coaches after the fact - but someone in these programs is promoting the behavior. It can't honestly be that these teams really move the puck that well on every goal that they have two assists nearly every time.

iceage · Post by **iceage** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:49 am

ghshockeyfan wrote:
hockeymannorth wrote:
ghshockeyfan wrote:My point was that Brandt's teammates got the job done when she didn't show up on the scoresheet. Now they'll have to take it up another notch and do so when she isn't in the line-up. Great test for a pretty solid HM squad and this can only make them better when Brandt returns IMHO - same is true for SSP & Roseville - and any other team having players missing for a very good reason.
for me its hard to tell how good HB is when Hill plays so many lower places teams it should be easy run up your stats
I used KRACH rankings to weight stats at one point. This removed some of the issues associated with big numbers against weak teams, etc.

There are actually far greater issues IMHO when it comes to stats. Some teams don't score control in blowouts and leave their very best players on the ice trying to score points (goals and assists) when the game is well over. I'm not saying that HM does this - just another observation - and it works against other teams that don't play a weak schedule and encounter many of these games - especially if they score controls when other do not.

Also, some teams somehow have two assists for every goal. Not sure how this is even possible - but those phantom assists really seem to add up. I'm all for giving an assist when it's legit if missed - even adding (or changing/removing) it after the fact based on video - but you can pretty easily tell the teams that are guilty of phantom assists (check their team stats vs other teams and see that they essentially have 2a for every 1g) and college coaches know they do it too and often joke about it. Sometimes it's done by the players on the ice and others by the coaches after the fact - but someone in these programs is promoting the behavior. It can't honestly be that these teams really move the puck that well on every goal that they have two assists nearly every time.

The referees assign the assists, it is not the teams.

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:27 pm

If you want HB's stats against the good teams, look at the other half of their schedule where they played all top 10 teams. Roseau's coach called her the best in the world at her age. That's heady praise. She reminds me of Kyle Rau from EP last year, just that little bit better when it really matters. We'll see if her season ends as well as Rau's did last year.

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:33 pm

The referees assign the assists, it is not the teams.

Come on, you're smarter than that. On the ice yes, but what gets entered on the Hub and in the newspaper is different. I too am for getting it correct but some teams do pump up their numbers.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:34 pm

Sparlimb wrote:If you want HB's stats against the good teams, look at the other half of their schedule where they played all top 10 teams. Roseau's coach called her the best in the world at her age. That's heady praise. She reminds me of Kyle Rau from EP last year, just that little bit better when it really matters. We'll see if her season ends as well as Rau's did last year.

there is no other half only played 2 top teams stillwater and minnetonka, they beat a down stillwater and split with minnetonka but iam not saying HB is not a good player but many top players would score good stats against most teams Hill plays and Roseau lost to all city teams they played so maybe she's the best player he's seen from the 3 city teams they played

HSRef77 · Post by **HSRef77** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:12 pm

hockeymannorth wrote:
Sparlimb wrote:If you want HB's stats against the good teams, look at the other half of their schedule where they played all top 10 teams. Roseau's coach called her the best in the world at her age. That's heady praise. She reminds me of Kyle Rau from EP last year, just that little bit better when it really matters. We'll see if her season ends as well as Rau's did last year.
there is no other half only played 2 top teams stillwater and minnetonka, they beat a down stillwater and split with minnetonka but iam not saying HB is not a good player but many top players would score good stats against most teams Hill plays and Roseau lost to all city teams they played so maybe she's the best player he's seen from the 3 city teams they played

hockeymannorth, I can understand your skepticism, especially if you haven't seen HB play. She could easily have twice as many points if that was her focus. From what I've seen, her focus has been winning games and making her teammates better.

I've spoken to a few parents who would like HB to be more selfish, especially when they play good competition or are in a close game. I have personally seen two games where she had multiple points in the first period against a weaker team than she moved back to defense and passed the puck "every" chance she got. It's not about the points with her.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:23 pm

ref, I couldn't agree more. Hockeymannorth must not do his homework, I believe Hill had one of the toughest scehdules in the state through the first six or seven games of the season. (you can go back and check Krach). It was pretty much the same schedule that they went 1-5 through last year. this year 5-1.

HB could avg. 5-6 goals a game. If you watch, she probably hits three or four posts a game, picking corners. When she scores, you often here it hit metal on the way in. I think some of her reluctance to run up her score total may come from a game against Tartan last year. I believe she had 6 total goals, w/ 3 in the first. Tartan parents got pretty nasty through out the game. The main reason is she is a good person.

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Hill Murray Pioneers

Regarding Brandt and USA camp, "Greatest" label

Re: Regarding Brandt and USA camp, "Greatest" labe