Let's Move the Girls High School Tournament to Ridder

dynamo · Post by **dynamo** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:48 am

I'd like to start the discussion on moving the Girls High School Tournament away from the Xcel Center and bring it to Ridder Arena. Ridder Arena is one of the premier hockey venues in the country and it was built for one the best women's hockey programs in the country. The arena has been a great place for the University of Minnesota women's team and I can't think of a better place to hold the tournament.

I believe Ridder seats about 3,400 people and would be such an exciting place to have the girls play. The atmosphere would be much more exciting and loud as it would more than likely be filled to capacity. Unfortunately, the Xcel Center as great an arena as it is for the Wild, the WCHA Final Five, and the Boys AA tournament it doesn't provide the same kind of atmosphere that a sold out Ridder Arena would.

I realize the tournament was moved to Xcel for fairness. But, I think we are beyond that now with girls hockey in Minnesota. The product is good and every year it gets better and better. If we can improve the venue for the premier tournament i think it will only add more and more to the girls experience.

I hope this post can start some discussion on the topic and if enough interested fans like myself are in agreement maybe we can get the push going to have this event moved as soon as possible.

Nordic · Post by **Nordic** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:34 pm

Would changing it save any money? I thought when this was looked at last year, the X gave a special price for the girls tournament. So maybe the cost would go up. It would be great if the ticket price would go down. But, I agree that a smaller venue would be better.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:43 pm

Nordic wrote:Would changing it save any money? I thought when this was looked at last year, the X gave a special price for the girls tournament. So maybe the cost would go up. It would be great if the ticket price would go down. But, I agree that a smaller venue would be better.

Great question. I don't want to start rumors as I really don't know the details. It could be a consideration though.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:42 pm

Like the MSHSL official said, "The kids like playing there (the X) and we do it for the kids." He further noted that the experience for the kids was the primary focus of the MSHSL. The MSHSL may have well been motivated way back when by the lawsuit, but it sure seems like they're fully on board now. I would agree, the focus should be on the players and giving them the best experience you can in high school athletics / state tournament. I've heard nothing but the same from ALL players who commented...they like playing at the X. I honestly have never heard anything other than that from any player that commented so...

I like Ridder and it's a great venue for the sport. I understand the advantage of a great atmosphere in the smaller arena. Always great atmosphere when I've attended at Ridder. I would be fine with the tournament being at Ridder...but again, the tournament is really for the players...and not about my experience.

One thing that is important for me, concessions. The concessions at Ridder are horrible...worst in the WCHA.

hockey21 · Post by **hockey21** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:24 pm

The X is one of the greatest hockey arenas in the world and we have it here in MN, why would we not want the girls to get the opportunity to play in that rink. People play in ridder all summer long, the X is where it should be end of story.

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:38 pm

If a player had the choice of playing at the X or ridder where do you think the vast majority would choose to play? Obviously it would be the Xcel Center. So why is this even up for debate? It is a dead issue. Unless there are some severe financial issues it is not going to change.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:33 pm

hockeywild7 wrote:If a player had the choice of playing at the X or ridder where do you think the vast majority would choose to play? Obviously it would be the Xcel Center. So why is this even up for debate? It is a dead issue. Unless there are some severe financial issues it is not going to change.

Until very recently my daughter had no interest in professional hockey, but was a big fan of college hockey. To her, Mariucci or the DECC are premier venues. We started going to womens games at Ridder and she dreamed of playing there. Looking around I see quite a few seats filld with young girls wearing team jerseys dreaming the same dream. Recently we had an opportunity to practice at Xcel. When not filled with fans it is a big empty box. To the girls it was a sheet of ice. I don't think it is a given that all or even most players would prefer to play there.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:42 pm

luckyEPDad wrote:Recently we had an opportunity to practice at Xcel. When not filled with fans it is a big empty box. To the girls it was a sheet of ice. I don't think it is a given that all or even most players would prefer to play there.

For me, it's difficult to imagine a player(s) making a judgement regarding their potential overall experience of playing a state tournament game at the X based on practicing there with literally no one in the building. I'm curious though, about whether or not anyone has heard a player who's played in the state tournament at the Xcel say they'd rather be playing at Ridder? Just because I never have personally.

dynamo · Post by **dynamo** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:34 pm

Hockey21

The Xcel Center is a great venue for hockey when it is filled with 18,000 fans, not when it is an oversized rink with nobody there cheering. Have you ever skated on the ice? It is no better than any other rink....come on. The experience is what it is all about and if you don't think Edina vs. Minnetonka last year with a sell-out crowd would have been an atmosphere to remember then I don't know what to say. I asked numerous girls where they would rather play and not one has said the X. Furthermore, I spoke to a lot of former players that played at the X and they would of rather played at Ridder in a sellout type atmosphere.

I think the real issue is a bunch of adults with oversized egos that want the event at the X.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:57 pm

brookyone wrote:For me, it's difficult to imagine a player(s) making a judgement regarding their potential overall experience of playing a state tournament game at the X based on practicing there with literally no one in the building.

How's that much different than the girl's state tournament? I was watching the boys state football championship on TV. Eden Prairie against Wayzata, two metro teams with a combined enrollment north of 6000. Think of all the alumni in the area. Even with careful camera work it was impossible to hide tha fact tha the dome was empty. All those empty seats just remind you that nobody is there to watch. Much more fun to watch football outside in the cold.

You said it yourself. The energy comes from the crowd, not the building. A more appropriately sized venue will have more energy and result in a better experience for all.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:19 am

luckyEPDad wrote:You said it yourself. The energy comes from the crowd, not the building. A more appropriately sized venue will have more energy and result in a better experience for all.

Well yeah, I might personally believe Ridder would provide the better atmosphere. I can't ignore what I've heard the players say though...that they really like playing at the X. And like I said...I can get a good hot dog at the X. Can't do that at Ridder. I'm not opposed to some creature comforts of my own while watching the games.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:39 am

The current players, and probably coaches/fans, are too far removed from the move to the X. I'd say look back a number of years to when the transition took place. That feedback was likely the most worthwhile as there were people that experienced both as players, coaches, or fans. Now, keep in mind that many were in awe of the $170M X still at that time. With that in mind, take a look at this old thread:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4353

Right now, we are commenting like those did prior to the move to the X - without enough experience with the alternative for comparison purposes. Those "pre-X" threads were saying many of the same things we have in this thread about moving back. All we could do was guess at what would be better.

Yes, we can learn from our experience - but the most valuable feedback or input probably came from those that experienced the change-over while keeping in mind "the awe of the X" portion. And, by the way, that does wear off after a game if the stands don't give the atmosphere of excitement. I'd argue that a building alone can do that for only so long.

It's a shame that our girls don't have the experience of playing in front of a packed building with all the excitement and energy that this brings. I think we are sacrificing that to play in an amazing building - and is that really what the state tourney experience is all about? That, I'm not sure of.

Interesting too to look at this old thread and see what it focused on (hindsight):
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4406

And:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4364

woogieboogiewoogie · Post by **woogieboogiewoogie** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:08 am

My daughter played in the State Tourney last year. She said the ice was soft at the X but looking up at the crowd she said "it was really cool" but it seemed empty and ghost like. We played at Ridder the next day (you all know why)

and she enjoyed that much more as it was 90% full. Asking her where she would rather play? The X was a great experience but she liked the packed house at Ridder. Brooky I'm with you on the concessions.
I'm just happy for her that she got to experience the State Tournament.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:46 pm

if they didn't put 4 of the best teams in the state in section 4AA ROSEVILLE ,STILLWATER,HILL MURRAY and WHITE BEAR they would have more interest in state championships.who wants to watch the 30 and 40th ranked teams play because their sections are bad

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:55 pm

lets rank top 8 teams and place them in different sections and let Minnesota see what girls hockey can be. and the Exel will fill up

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:41 pm

hockeymannorth wrote:if they didn't put 4 of the best teams in the state in section 4AA ROSEVILLE ,STILLWATER,HILL MURRAY and WHITE BEAR they would have more interest in state championships.who wants to watch the 30 and 40th ranked teams play because their sections are bad

hockeymannorth wrote:lets rank top 8 teams and place them in different sections and let Minnesota see what girls hockey can be. and the Exel will fill up

Something like this:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27436

It's been discussed before:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... c&start=13
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7578

hockeymaven · Post by **hockeymaven** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:16 pm

For what its worth:

Having read this thread I surveyed both my daughters who played a few HS games at Ridder and also in a couple state championships at the X a few years back (they also continued to play in college) and they both indicated that they strongly preferred the X

Nostalgic Nerd · Post by **Nostalgic Nerd** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 am

hockeymannorth wrote:lets rank top 8 teams and place them in different sections and let Minnesota see what girls hockey can be. and the Exel will fill up

That's not realistic for travel reasons.

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:36 am

hockeymaven wrote:For what its worth:

Having read this thread I surveyed both my daughters who played a few HS games at Ridder and also in a couple state championships at the X a few years back (they also continued to play in college) and they both indicated that they strongly preferred the X

This same question comes up every year. Many parents prefer the atmosphere of a full house at Ridder but in my casual conversations with many of the players over the years, the great majority want to play where the Wild plays. So in deference to the girls I say keep it at the X and try to get more fans to come to the tourney.

hockeymannorth · Post by **hockeymannorth** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:08 pm

don't get me wrong i love girls hockey at the X, I just want to see the best girls play the big show.to help showcase what girls hockey can be

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:31 pm

You could fill Ridder only because it holds about 3400 and create the atmosphere everyone seems to want. The girls tournament would not come close to filling Mariucci arena let alone the X. I still believe the vast majority of the players prefer to play in the X. Ask those who have had to play at ridder for consolation, it does not even get 1/4 full for those games. Girls hockey does not have a huge following overall. The boys AA pretty much sells out regardless of who plays in it. Class A boys is maybe half full at the X.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:29 pm

I think one issue is that the girls see Ridder as the place for the losers or consolation.

If they played in front of a full Ridder for the championship - they might feel different about it.

The X is a great building. Ridder is a building Girls Hockey can fill for a great atmosphere. Not sure what can be done to bridge the gap between the two.

GopherFanARM · Post by **GopherFanARM** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:43 pm

I understand what people are saying about the atmosphere in Ridder for a HS game when it is full. I remember NSP vs SSP when it was held there. But even if the girls preferred to play in Ridder, hasn't the tournament grown to the extent that it would no longer fit in Ridder? Some of the AA games attract crowds that may be small in the X, but wouldn't come close to fitting in Ridder. If consolation round games can fill it to 90% of capacity, then I don't see it being able to hold the afternoon quarters where many students attend because it gets them out of class. As for Mariucci, I'd had to see a HS championship decided on Olympic ice when they seldom play on it otherwise.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:36 pm

I agree on the Olympic ice & NSP/SSP from a number of years ago...

Based on 2010-11 MSHSL #'s:

Class A Consolation championship was 280:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL133755a-consm2.htm

Class AA Consolation championship was 455:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL144434aa-cons.htm

Class AA Consolation semis were 770:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL145246aacons2.htm

Class A Quarters were 1363:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL221653a-qtr4.htm

Class A Championship was 1431:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL142800a-champ.htm

Class AA Quarters were 2682:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL222233aa-qtr4.htm

Class AA Championship was 2846:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL214204aa-champ.htm

Class AA Semis were 2934:
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL224758aa-semi2.htm

Class A Semis don't have attendance #'s listed - but I can't believe they exceed AA.

Ridder has a seating capcity of 3400 *(including 210 club seats and nine suites with fourteen seats each = 210+9*14 = 210+126 = 336 - so 3400-336 = 3064 in main seating areas):
http://www.gophersports.com/facilities/ ... arena.html

I don't know that girls hockey has outgrown Ridder from a capacity standpoint.

mulefarm · Post by **mulefarm** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:31 pm

It all boils down to equality. The boys play there so the girls have to play there. End of discussion!

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